Do you believe in God?

[TenEightyOne]

Luke 7:47?

To whom less is forgiven, he loveth less

Too erudite for me...

 

[DCP]

Are you serious mate. I did give you the verses in the other thread.
Even in Isaiah, air travel was predicted. That book is amazing. It contains for me, the greatest prophecy ever written.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Are you serious mate. I did give you the verses in the other thread.
Even in Isaiah, air travel was predicted. That book is amazing. It contains for me, the greatest prophecy ever written.

Yes, very serious. You quoted a verse about locusts but as we were going off-topic I'm pressing you on the issue here. Planes in the bible... source?

 

[Dotini]

Yes, very serious. You quoted a verse about locusts but as we were going off-topic I'm pressing you on the issue here. Planes in the bible... source?

Yeah, there are references to flying vehicles in biblical literature, as well as in Vedic literature. The ancient alien community gets a lot of mileage out of these cryptic "wheels within wheels" passages. There are book-length collections, and splendid old art works, of these sorts of references.

I would sooner give credence to these ancient alien gods than believe the literal bible. There are now several cable TV channels, at least three on my TV, which serially run ancient alien god stories and themes. New Age religions, wicca and the like boom in popularity while traditional Christian churches weaken and die.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Yeah, there are references to flying vehicles in biblical literature, as well as in Vedic literature. The ancient alien community gets a lot of mileage out of these cryptic "wheels within wheels" passages. There are book-length collections, and splendid old art works, of these sorts of references.

I would sooner give credence to these ancient alien gods than believe the literal bible. There are now several cable TV channels, at least three on my TV, which serially run ancient alien god stories and themes. New Age religions, wicca and the like boom in popularity while traditional Christian churches weaken and die.

I can only think of Ezekiel 1+, the foursquare Cherubim arranged as a single wheel. @DCP's previous reference was to locusts, an oft-misinterpreted text. What others are there?

 

[Dotini]

I can only think of Ezekiel 1+, the foursquare Cherubim arranged as a single wheel. @DCP's previous reference was to locusts, an oft-misinterpreted text. What others are there?

My favorite biblical literature is found in 1 (Ethiopic Apocalypse of) Enoch, consisting of 5 books. Book of the Watchers will make your socks roll up and down, guaranteed! I have the translation by E Isaac published in the Charlesworth edition of Old Testament Pseudepigrapha, Vol 1.

a quick example,

52-2: having been carried off in a wind vehicle and taken to the west, my eyes saw there all the secret things of heaven and the future things.

Another quick example, more readily accessible to most of us are the passages in,

Exodus 13:17,18: (the) Lord went before them, by day in a pillar of cloud to lead them along the way, and by night in a pillar of fire to give them light, that they may travel by day and by night; the pillar of cloud by day and pillar of fire by night did not depart from before the people.

The Bible and Flying Saucers by Barry Downing and Extraterrestrials in Biblical Prophecy by Schellhorn are stuffed with passages like these and, crucially, their interpretation.

 

[TenEightyOne]

My favorite biblical literature is found in 1 (Ethiopic Apocalypse of) Enoch, consisting of 5 books. Book of the Watchers will make your socks roll up and down, guaranteed! I have the translation by E Isaac published in the Charlesworth edition of Old Testament Pseudepigrapha, Vol 1.

Not Biblical but I'll look it over

Exodus 13:17,18: (the) Lord went before them, by day in a pillar of cloud to lead them along the way, and by night in a pillar of fire to give them light, that they may travel by day and by night; the pillar of cloud by day and pillar of fire by night did not depart from before the people.

Wow, sounds impressive... you'd have to be fairly nutty to jump to a conclusion outside the literal description, surely?

The Bible and Flying Saucers by Barry Downing and Extraterrestrials in Biblical Prophecy by Schellhorn are stuffed with passages like these and, crucially, their interpretation.

Nutty

 

[dylansan]

My favorite biblical literature is found in 1 (Ethiopic Apocalypse of) Enoch, consisting of 5 books. Book of the Watchers will make your socks roll up and down, guaranteed! I have the translation by E Isaac published in the Charlesworth edition of Old Testament Pseudepigrapha, Vol 1.

a quick example,

52-2: having been carried off in a wind vehicle and taken to the west, my eyes saw there all the secret things of heaven and the future things.

All other versions of this I can find simply mention being swept up by a whirlwind or just wind. Sounds more like a tornado than an aircraft to me.

 

[Dotini]

Most of us think the Bible is just codswallop, as do I. As a source of religion, ethics, morality and life-ways it should condemned if not burned.

As a source of literature, it may offer insight into the neolithic, bronze and and iron age mind, mythology and legends. So it should be open to some interpretation to suit your scholarly purposes.

Personally, I don't care to discuss it in any length. I'd rather discuss motorsports trivia or fencing. Over the past 18 months I've learned way over 100 actions of parry, riposte, remise et al in fencing drills and assaults. Well call this "the conversation in steel". Shall we talk?

 

[Touring Mars]

Too erudite for me...

Well, it makes more sense than suggesting that giant locusts that look like horses, with tails like scorpions, human-like faces, woman's hair and lion's teeth are in some way predictive of modern aviation.

 

[DCP]

Yeah, there are references to flying vehicles in biblical literature, as well as in Vedic literature. The ancient alien community gets a lot of mileage out of these cryptic "wheels within wheels" passages. There are book-length collections, and splendid old art works, of these sorts of references.

I would sooner give credence to these ancient alien gods than believe the literal bible. There are now several cable TV channels, at least three on my TV, which serially run ancient alien god stories and themes. New Age religions, wicca and the like boom in popularity while traditional Christian churches weaken and die.

Don't be deceived. Like I said, these demons, fallen angels to satan are doing his deceptive works.
The Nephilim and fallen angels are the giants that proposed worship to these cultures. This is where they got their symbols from, as well as how they were taught to make weaponry etc.
I challenge you guys to you tube the Nephilim and fallen angels. It's clear in the bible.

In fact, yes, the book of Enoch as well. Very deep stuff in there. The ware between heaven and Lucifer.
This war will continue very soon, as seen by John in Revelations.

@TenEightyOne

Isaiah 5:26-30

He will raise a signal for nations far away, and whistle for them from the ends of the earth; and behold, quickly, speedily they come! None is weary, none stumbles, none slumbers or sleeps, not a waistband is loose, not a sandal strap broken; their arrows are sharp, all their bows bent, their horses' hoofs seem like flint, and their wheels like the whirlwind. Their roaring is like a lion, like young lions they roar; they growl and seize their prey; they carry it off, and none can rescue. They will growl over it on that day, like the growling of the sea. And if one looks to the land, behold, darkness and distress; and the light is darkened by its clouds.

Isaiah 60
Verse 8 “Who are these who fly like a cloud
And like the doves to their lattices?

Read verses 9 and 4 also, to see what he is seeing, about people travelling from all places, also by land and sea.
Isaiah understands land and sea travel, hence he questions in verse 8.

The one of revelation I sent you. It sounds like his describing a pilot in his fighter jet.

 

[DQuaN]

Nothing there suggests Planes, Trains or Automobiles. You're reading something out of nothing.

 

[Dennisch]

I didn't know modern military still uses bows and arrows.

 

[Dotini]

I didn't know modern military still uses bows and arrows.

Bows and arrows, no. Knives and tomahawks, yes! Uyghurs still use swords.

But seriously, primitive people had no words or concepts for things we take for granted today. "A pillar of cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night" perfectly describes the cylindrical UFO phenomenon, seen and recorded over the world for decades, centuries, really. You can see images of these apparitions in medieval woodcuts. In the 19th century, they were seen all over the US and described in newspapers as "airships". You can readily perceive that this phenomenon called religion is highly psychological, with the agency behind the visions and apparitions morphing its outer shape in tune to the evolution of the human mind and its ability to accept and deal with it.

 

[TenEightyOne]

"A pillar of cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night"

It also perfectly describes a large army column seen from afar, cloudy with dust by day and camplit by night.

Or, indeed, something completely imaginary.

 

[Dotini]

Ambiguity, lies, deception, distortion, and false narration all have their rightful place in literature, culture, government and human nature.

In Enoch, descriptions of the dwellings, vehicles and persons of the "fallen angels", as some would have them, are replete with constant usage of the terms fire and flame - cold fire and cold flame. Today we call this plasma. The Djinn of the Koran are described as smokeless flame, another term for plasma.

I give you the hypothesis we are dealing with trickster/psychotic inorganic beings (or robots) originating from and returning to the electromagnetic spectrum before and after transient manifestation in visible light. Think electric gremlin from Gremlins 2; electromagnetic superhero.

 

[dylansan]

In Enoch, descriptions of the dwellings, vehicles and persons of the "fallen angels", as some would have them, are replete with constant usage of the terms fire and flame - cold fire and cold flame. Today we call this plasma.

I've never heard of this. I did look it up and apparently cold plasma is another name for fire, but that doesn't support your point...

 

[Dotini]

I've never heard of this. I did look it up and apparently cold plasma is another name for fire, but that doesn't support your point...

Don't worry, I'm not debating and not selling anything. I hope to have pleasantly entertained you.

But now I must be off to see the masseuse, then prepare for my afternoon fencing lesson. We'll take it all up again another day.

 

[Grand Prix]

I didn't know modern military still uses bows and arrows.

There was Jack Churchill, WW2 though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Churchill

He even used a Scottish baskethilt broadsword.

 

[Imari]

Isaiah 5:26-30

He will raise a signal for nations far away, and whistle for them from the ends of the earth; and behold, quickly, speedily they come! None is weary, none stumbles, none slumbers or sleeps, not a waistband is loose, not a sandal strap broken; their arrows are sharp, all their bows bent, their horses' hoofs seem like flint, and their wheels like the whirlwind. Their roaring is like a lion, like young lions they roar; they growl and seize their prey; they carry it off, and none can rescue. They will growl over it on that day, like the growling of the sea. And if one looks to the land, behold, darkness and distress; and the light is darkened by its clouds.

Is this archers in chariots to anyone else? I mean, I've seen less artistic license taken in novels before.

 

[Scaff]

Is this archers in chariots to anyone else? I mean, I've seen less artistic license taken in novels before.

Yep.

Almost certainly Assyrian Chariot's with archers. Something they were well known for and also fit the time time of the Assyrian move against the Kingdom of Judah at the time.

 

[Spurgy 777]

Yep.

Almost certainly Assyrian Chariot's with archers. Something they were well known for and also fit the time time of the Assyrian move against the Kingdom of Judah at the time.

No, no, no, that's quite clearly a fighter jet Scaff, I mean who in their right mind would use a chariot when they can just hop into their fighter jet?

 

[GBO Possum]

So by that logic no people are given credit, just the method. I am saying prayer and religion plays a part in the advancement of modern medicine.

And where is the evidence that prayer has advanced modern medicine?

You guys don't seem to have any understanding of humanity or, you are simply not willing to admit there are religious people and organizations in medicine. That's ok, I figured as much.

Just because some medical people also practice religion, doesn't mean religion should get the credit for scientific medical discovery. No doubt a few doctors play Gran Turismo, and based on your logic, we should be crediting GT with medical advancement.

Now back to the foundations of creationism, may I suggest this video. @DCP and @squadops , if you want to protect your belief system, you'll have to turn the sound right down to zero.

 

[Dotini]

You guys don't seem to have any understanding of humanity or, you are simply not willing to admit there are religious people and organizations in medicine. That's ok, I figured as much.

Don't worry! One of the greatest scientists (also diplomat) who ever lived, Benjamin Franklin, said "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." In addition to understanding science, Franklin also understood people, a great and rare quality.

 

[jimipitbull]

So by that logic no people are given credit, just the method. I am saying prayer and religion plays a part in the advancement of modern medicine.

History credits the Nazis, the Japanese and the North Koreans as playing significant roles in the advancement of modern medicine.

But if you dig a little deeper, it definitely reeks of Christianity, Shintoism, Buddhism and Confucianism.

 

[squadops]

my post is not understood, so whatever.

 

[JKgo]

^ Don't worry, I get your point...

 

[GBO Possum]

my post is not understood, so whatever.

Maybe it needs to worded better so it can be understood without guesswork.

However, you could say the same for the bible, so you are in, by some measures, good company.

 

[GBO Possum]

The key to being religious is, in part, the ability to ignore reality and facts.

Consider the following press clipping

The mother of the North Charleston police officer charged with murder in the shooting of a fleeing suspect says she's grieving for both her family and the family of the victim.

Karen Sharpe, mother of officer Michael Thomas Slager, tells ABC's "Good Morning America" that she knows there are changes for both families.

"It will never be the same again, and that's the part that bothers me," she said, fighting back tears.

She says that she has to take one day at a time and that she can't worry for now about whether she might ever see her son free again.

"I just have to let it be and hope God takes care of everybody involved — not only my family, but the Scott family because I know they're grieving just like I'm grieving, so I want them to know that," she said.

She says her son loved being a police officer and that she couldn't imagine him shooting Walter L. Scott. "It's just not like him. That's just not his character. ... He has a little baby on the way due next month," she said.

She says she has been avoiding news accounts of the incident and hasn't watching the dramatic bystander video footage that helped lead to her son's arrest.

Here is a believer in a god who "can't imagine" her son shooting Mr Scott (and hence imagines that he didn't), but has deliberately avoided viewing the very evidence which would allow her to connect to reality.

Reading the posts in this thread and others leads me to the understanding that the possession of a belief system relies on the ability to ignore facts, evidence and reality.

 

[GBO Possum]

Are you serious mate. I did give you the verses in the other thread.
Even in Isaiah, air travel was predicted. That book is amazing. It contains for me, the greatest prophecy ever written.

What's the difference in your mind between "prophecy" and "imaginative writing"? (such as Arthur C Clarke, or Isaac Asimov's works)