Do you believe in God?

[SuperCobraJet]

So people had to suffer horrendously under religious scripture in order to make things better?

Yes.

God is perfect, he sees everything. However he couldn't see that because of his carelessness when creating the universe it was left open to hundreds of thousands of imperfections that would result in human misery. I assume he knew this would happen, which means that he probably enjoys the thought of us suffering before we go to a better place. This makes him a sadist.

No, that means for the reason I posted, it had to be that way.
"There is no true perfection without the ability for it to be tested".
The perequisite being free-will choice and a scale of balanced potential.

I don't need to be born again. This life is brilliant. I can follow the "law" of love right now in this existence.

Sounds good, but its not good enough.
It says "must be".
Thats not optional.

Which form of Christianity do you follow?

The original kind.

What do you think of the new testament?

Not sure what you mean?

You "don't know" these Gods but billions of other people do.

They apparently claim too.

Do you believe those Gods to be false?

Yes I do.

Many other religions are not compatible with Christianity. So how do you feel about other religious scripture which has different requirements for entry in to heaven?

How do you know you are following the correct scripture?

It claims and offers something much more, than anything else I know of.

God couldn't get, with all his heavenly power, anyone to defend him but SCJ?
Lol, don't tell me with all those collection plates around the world, he couldn't afford Jhonny Cocran? (Sp on the last name)

If I'm not mistaken, Johnny's no longer with us.

 

[Carbonox]

I love how atheists cant stop talking or thinking about God , religion . It is like how the kkk cant stop talking or thinking about black people .

Yeah, and we also eat babies for breakfast. We sure as hell are some horrible people who need a saving grace from a sky fairy who calmly commits genocide for fun.

Yes.

And in that you're wrong. A morally correct religion shouldn't cause any unnecessary suffering for its followers, or any other person or the planet for the record.

 

[DQuaN]

I love how atheists cant stop talking or thinking about God , religion . It is like how the kkk cant stop talking or thinking about black people .

Are you really comparing atheists to the KKK?

The KKK are Christians.

 

[demonchilde]

Anyone with a sense of mortality is going to ponder this subject if not daily, at least weekly.
Those who believe 'anything' will of course practice their faith.
Those that don't won't.
Of coarse, in the back of your mind, maybe in the cockles of your brain, maybe in the sub-cockles, maybe even in the colon, there's that lingering thought, "what if I'm wrong?" Of coarse, most atheists in an attempt to not be hypocritical, end up actually BEING hypocritical by not admitting this. You can't be positive about something and question it. Thus, I expect a few atheists to reply with a 'that's not true' but that's either a lie or denial. NOONE, is 100% positive about this subject. Although 99.99% will swear they are, lol.

 

[Touring Mars]

To be fair, I think that most atheists (at least the ones I know, anyway) stick firmly to the scientific method, and as such are readily willing to accept the possibility of being wrong, since that is a fundamental aspect of the scientific method and is the key difference between testable knowledge and untestable dogma. Being demonstrably wrong about something, however, requires tangible evidence that shows you to be wrong - but on a more fundamental level, it also requires individuals to simply accept the possibility of being wrong. But while science demands this, many religions (and indeed, by definition, faith in general) requires rejecting the possibility altogether.

Incidentally, I am currently working on a song about this exact subject, with the working title 'If I'm Wrong'. Unfortunately, the lyrics I came up with were too preachy, so it will probably be called something else - maybe 'In The Cockles Of My Brain' or something ... as for the sub-cockles, I've not checked mine for a while, despite the fact that chaps are supposed to do so on a regular basis at my age.

 

[Danoff]

Anyone with a sense of mortality is going to ponder this subject if not daily, at least weekly.
Those who believe 'anything' will of course practice their faith.
Those that don't won't.
Of coarse, in the back of your mind, maybe in the cockles of your brain, maybe in the sub-cockles, maybe even in the colon, there's that lingering thought, "what if I'm wrong?" Of coarse, most atheists in an attempt to not be hypocritical, end up actually BEING hypocritical by not admitting this. You can't be positive about something and question it. Thus, I expect a few atheists to reply with a 'that's not true' but that's either a lie or denial. NOONE, is 100% positive about this subject. Although 99.99% will swear they are, lol.

@Touring Mars covered most of this, but the real problem with it is not the fact that anyone who claims anything that is untestable might be right, it's the fact that EVERYTHING that is claimed and is untestable might be right. So any religion, including the flying spaghetti monster, and any claim, including the invisible pink unicorn, could be right. So that small chance that someone could be right doesn't really concern me in the slightest - because there are literally an infinite number of untestable claims that could each be right, and have so little chance of being correct as to not be worth discussing.

So I proceed with my life as though all of the religions, including the flying spaghetti monster, and all of the untestable claims, including the invisible pink unicorn, are false. And that doesn't bother me even a little.

 

[Joel]

I guess to me the doubts depend on your upbringing perhaps. I'm an atheist now but I was raised Catholic, went to Catholic school, and believed it up until I was around 15. Granted, I was never devout and always had doubts about my faith from the time I was young (I was the kid in Sunday school asking how they knew the bible wasn't just a made up story) but I always believed there was a higher power. Even now knowing that @Touring Mars M and @Danoff are right on this, I sometimes still get a feeling of doubt in my subconscious mind. I guess it's just hard to shake the upbringing that there's a God watching over everything you do and passing judgment. I do notice it waning as the years go by though.

 

[Rotorist]

Absolutely! He lived with us, died for us and wait for us.

 

[Carbonox]

Anyone with a sense of mortality is going to ponder this subject if not daily, at least weekly.
Those who believe 'anything' will of course practice their faith.
Those that don't won't.
Of coarse, in the back of your mind, maybe in the cockles of your brain, maybe in the sub-cockles, maybe even in the colon, there's that lingering thought, "what if I'm wrong?" Of coarse, most atheists in an attempt to not be hypocritical, end up actually BEING hypocritical by not admitting this. You can't be positive about something and question it. Thus, I expect a few atheists to reply with a 'that's not true' but that's either a lie or denial. NOONE, is 100% positive about this subject. Although 99.99% will swear they are, lol.

I'm thinking all of us do realize that the current scientific method might not be a correct one... but one thing is for sure, no amount of preaching is going to change our minds. That's the great part about critical thinking, it makes us immune to all the appeals to emotion or god's authority and the tons of other logical fallacies used by preachers.

 

[Danoff]

I just want to say that I love the fact that people still jump into a hundreds of pages long thread and say "Yes I do" or "No I don't". It's as though you're having a deep philosophical discussion with someone and your neighbor opens the door and says "green banana jello!"

 

[TheCracker]

Absolutely! He lived with us, died for us and wait for us.

Well, that was nice of him/her. But he/she really shouldn't have gone to all that trouble.

 

[Touring Mars]

I just want to say that I love the fact that people still jump into a hundreds of pages long thread and say "Yes I do" or "No I don't". It's as though you're having a deep philosophical discussion with someone and your neighbor opens the door and says "green banana jello!"

It's unavoidable given the structure of these forums, and responses to the original question will always arrive from time to time, but I get your point. My analogy is that it's a bit like when my Dad would walk into the living room while we're watching TV, fart, and then walk back out again.

I guess to me the doubts depend on your upbringing perhaps. I'm an atheist now but I was raised Catholic, went to Catholic school, and believed it up until I was around 15. Granted, I was never devout and always had doubts about my faith from the time I was young (I was the kid in Sunday school asking how they knew the bible wasn't just a made up story) but I always believed there was a higher power. Even now knowing that @Touring Mars M and @Danoff are right on this, I sometimes still get a feeling of doubt in my subconscious mind. I guess it's just hard to shake the upbringing that there's a God watching over everything you do and passing judgment. I do notice it waning as the years go by though.

I guess there will always be doubt and sometimes even the staunchest atheist will (or already has) appealed to God in a moment of sheer desperation or dire need on the off chance that it might actually do some good...

 

[Spurgy 777]

I just want to say that I love the fact that people still jump into a hundreds of pages long thread and say "Yes I do" or "No I don't". It's as though you're having a deep philosophical discussion with someone and your neighbor opens the door and says "green banana jello!"

Ironically, "green banana jello" is probably just as good an argument for god's existence as quite a few of the arguments in this thread

 

[demonchilde]

I'm thinking all of us do realize that the current scientific method might not be a correct one... but one thing is for sure, no amount of preaching is going to change our minds. That's the great part about critical thinking, it makes us immune to all the appeals to emotion or god's authority and the tons of other logical fallacies used by preachers.

Trust me, I know how you feel. The amount of forced Injected preaching i had growing up was unbearable. Although, things taught to you at a young age are harder to mentally forgo.
But. . . .

This is a big BUT, . . . .

But just when i was completly happy being a science-nut (which for the most part I still am mainly), something happened to me. I, witnessed, lets call it a 'paranormal' incodent. And the biggest wrench in my works was not once, but multiple times in the same 'area/spot'. I'm not going to get into specifics, because it puts a chill down my spine when i dwell too much. But know this; science Cannot explain what i witnessed. No science anywhere remotly close to anything we know anyway. And this to me was proof of 'demensional theorys'. Bottom line is, when you see actual proof, that living breathing physical science is NOT all there is, it forces you to wonder how much else that i cast out in disbelief actually has truth to it.
Now NO, i didnt do a 180 and go religeous-nut, but lets just say i have an open mind, i dont think the catholics are right, but i dont think athiests are either. Still looking for more knowledge, and probably always will.

 

[Danoff]

Trust me, I know how you feel. The amount of forced Injected preaching i had growing up was unbearable. Although, things taught to you at a young age are harder to mentally forgo.
But. . . .

This is a big BUT, . . . .

But just when i was completly happy being a science-nut (which for the most part I still am mainly), something happened to me. I, witnessed, lets call it a 'paranormal' incodent. And the biggest wrench in my works was not once, but multiple times in the same 'area/spot'. I'm not going to get into specifics, because it puts a chill down my spine when i dwell too much. But know this; science Cannot explain what i witnessed. No science anywhere remotly close to anything we know anyway. And this to me was proof of 'demensional theorys'. Bottom line is, when you see actual proof, that living breathing physical science is NOT all there is, it forces you to wonder how much else that i cast out in disbelief actually has truth to it.
Now NO, i didnt do a 180 and go religeous-nut, but lets just say i have an open mind, i dont think the catholics are right, but i dont think athiests are either. Still looking for more knowledge, and probably always will.

This I do not understand.

I could see a dimensional doorway open right now in my living room and three horned beasts walk out and I would still not believe the scientific method was flawed. You can't just drive by and say "I saw some smurf" and leave. That's as bad as the religious nuts.

 

[Carbonox]

That paranormal stuff is fascinating. I actually used to believe in that stuff (without involving religious thinking, of course) but as time progressed, I began to see things in a more rational way. For instance, the "ghost walking up the stairs at night" was actually some mice running around in the ceiling.

Not sure if related to thread or not, but thought I'd share that. Was kinda scary in my childhood when the aforementioned footsteps and occasional scratching could be heard pretty much every night.

 

[MatskiMonk]

I just want to say that I love the fact that people still jump into a hundreds of pages long thread and say "Yes I do" or "No I don't". It's as though you're having a deep philosophical discussion with someone and your neighbor opens the door and says "green banana jello!"

Well, to be fair, the title of the thread is "Do you believe in god".. rather than "Does god exist" or "Should we believe in God". Really there isn't so much to debate when somebody gives a simple yes or no based on an opinion on such a broad topic.



What I find interesting is that after around 1200 votes, it's so evenly split between the No! and the Yes/Maybe people. I've yet to cast my vote still

 

[demonchilde]

This I do not understand.

I could see a dimensional doorway open right now in my living room and three horned beasts walk out and I would still not believe the scientific method was flawed. You can't just drive by and say "I saw some smurf" and leave. That's as bad as the religious nuts.

I dont remember saying science was flawed. Oh, that's because I didn't.
The technique of using radical examples /horned beasts-smurf/ in a response to discredit something, is flawed. No facts or proof of anything was offered in this colorful arrangement of words you've given us.you basically just said if you saw proof of something science cannot yet explain, you would cast it away with no further investigation. And yet I am the one being compared to a nut.

Lol, back up a minute. All I said was, the science we know TODAY cannot explain. And the ONLY conclusion I stated was not a statement that something is flawed, it was that apon witnessing on multiple occasions something that cannot at this time be explained, I'm going to KEEP AN OPEN MIND.
If you read more into that then this, then you should reas it again.

 

[Exorcet]

...

Just bumping my last reply. What sends people to hell, why is it there, etc.

I guess to me the doubts depend on your upbringing perhaps. I'm an atheist now but I was raised Catholic, went to Catholic school, and believed it up until I was around 15. Granted, I was never devout and always had doubts about my faith from the time I was young (I was the kid in Sunday school asking how they knew the bible wasn't just a made up story) but I always believed there was a higher power. Even now knowing that @Touring Mars M and @Danoff are right on this, I sometimes still get a feeling of doubt in my subconscious mind. I guess it's just hard to shake the upbringing that there's a God watching over everything you do and passing judgment. I do notice it waning as the years go by though.

I've had to deal with this too. Due to my upbringing, my mind was blown when I finally found a friend that didn't celebrate Christmas. God was real and that was a fact - only it wasn't, I was just conditioned to believe this, and it really did slow down my move away from religion as I'd try to just cling on to a different part of it and justify it in some way.

In the end I could still overcome it, and it's one of the reasons why I decided that religion isn't particularly good for people.

But just when i was completly happy being a science-nut (which for the most part I still am mainly), something happened to me. I, witnessed, lets call it a 'paranormal' incodent. And the biggest wrench in my works was not once, but multiple times in the same 'area/spot'. I'm not going to get into specifics, because it puts a chill down my spine when i dwell too much. But know this; science Cannot explain what i witnessed. No science anywhere remotly close to anything we know anyway. And this to me was proof of 'demensional theorys'. Bottom line is, when you see actual proof, that living breathing physical science is NOT all there is, it forces you to wonder how much else that i cast out in disbelief actually has truth to it.
Now NO, i didnt do a 180 and go religeous-nut, but lets just say i have an open mind, i dont think the catholics are right, but i dont think athiests are either. Still looking for more knowledge, and probably always will.

This doesn't really sound scientific though. You're just saying that science can't explain what you saw. It sounds like an assumption.

Calling yourself a "science-nut" and then turning around calling a paranormal event a wrench doesn't sound terribly convincing. If anything it should have been a data point and a base for further investigating. Science isn't some ultra specific tool of limited use. It is strong because it is the most general tool for "knowing". Even if what you saw was a ghost, angle, bigfoot, or anything else like that, it shouldn't rule out a scientific approach in the slightest.

The separation of the world into science and spiritual is made up, or at least uninteresting, since science is the only way humans can understand anything.

Ithat apon witnessing on multiple occasions something that cannot at this time be explained, I'm going to KEEP AN OPEN MIND.

But that is science.

Like I said, observation isn't a wrench. I don't think you were as much as a science nut as thought at that time.

 

[BobK]

Actually science today could explain whatever you saw/experienced. The explanation would likely include words like "hallucination" or "delusion" or maybe "psychosis". Not saying that's necessarily the correct explanation of course, but it's a viable hypothesis.

 

[huskeR32]

But just when i was completly happy being a science-nut (which for the most part I still am mainly), something happened to me. I, witnessed, lets call it a 'paranormal' incodent. And the biggest wrench in my works was not once, but multiple times in the same 'area/spot'. I'm not going to get into specifics, because it puts a chill down my spine when i dwell too much. But know this; science Cannot explain what i witnessed. No science anywhere remotly close to anything we know anyway. And this to me was proof of 'demensional theorys'. Bottom line is, when you see actual proof, that living breathing physical science is NOT all there is, it forces you to wonder how much else that i cast out in disbelief actually has truth to it.

There's a lot of waffling going on here, but I followed you like this:

Science can't explain this > Well, I guess current science can't > It confirmed multi-dimensional physics > Physical science doesn't cover everything.

I'm going to touch on that third part. If you took what you saw as some sort of confirmation of ideas about multiple dimensions, how is that not physical science? You don't understand it, nobody does in fact, but that's still physics, right? Or am I completely missing what you said there?

Side note: I'd be half-tempted to drive all the way to Maine and buy you a beer just to hear you tell this story, whatever it is. I'm utterly fascinated by the paranormal.

Now NO, i didnt do a 180 and go religeous-nut, but lets just say i have an open mind, i dont think the catholics are right, but i dont think athiests are either. Still looking for more knowledge, and probably always will.

Not to beat a dead horse, but atheists don't make positive claims about anything. So the question of if they're right nor not is nonsensical.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

"There is no true perfection without the ability for it to be tested".

And god's creation, when subjected to this "necessary" test of perfection, utterly failed. So where do you go from there?

The original kind.

Glad you cleared that up.

It claims and offers something much more, than anything else I know of.

Wut? Pretty much every religion ever has told the same stories about the same people, offered similarly outlandish creation myths, and promised some sort of eternal life/afterlife for its followers while tossing non-believers into some sort of eternal misery. What exactly does Christianity offer so "much more" of compared to the others?

 

[demonchilde]

Oh, yes, I was taken a bit off from my original meaning, that's my fault for trying to sum up an entire conversation into 1 paragraph. I don't rule out science as an explanation, I ruled out 'what we know so far'. Maybe a hundred years from now this will be textbook, who knows.
But the possibility that there ARE dimensions filled with other peoples/dead/aliens/elvis or whatever, leads to the possibility that 'some' things once believed to be hoaxes, might not be. And on that, is it not possible that one day a God theory might actually not only be possible, but we might PROVE it with future science breakthroughs?

Oh, and Husk, let me rephrase what I said.
I don't think there's definitely a supreme being behind things, but I don't think theres definitely NOT one. I think the amount of unknowns in the univer need to be unraveled a bit more before anyone can say to a definite either way.

 

[Exorcet]

Oh, yes, I was taken a bit off from my original meaning, that's my fault for trying to sum up an entire conversation into 1 paragraph. I don't rule out science as an explanation, I ruled out 'what we know so far'. Maybe a hundred years from now this will be textbook, who knows.
But the possibility that there ARE dimensions filled with other peoples/dead/aliens/elvis or whatever, leads to the possibility that 'some' things once believed to be hoaxes, might not be. And on that, is it not possible that one day a God theory might actually not only be possible, but we might PROVE it with future science breakthroughs?

Oh, and Husk, let me rephrase what I said.
I don't think there's definitely a supreme being behind things, but I don't think theres definitely NOT one. I think the amount of unknowns in the univer need to be unraveled a bit more before anyone can say to a definite either way.

Now I see.

Though there is more than one thing to consider here. Hoaxes involving ghosts, etc will most likely remain hoaxes. If they were real, at least some of them wouldn't have been labeled hoaxes.

 

[dylansan]

I'm no god, but if I had free reign over the laws of the universe and everything within it, I imagine it would be pretty easy to create a universe with free will and without suffering. As long as I give everyone lots of choices to make during their lives, but ensure none of the possible options can harm anyone else, I've pretty much satisfied that goal.

Or alternatively, make everything exactly as it is now except humans don't feel pain, physically or emotionally. Same thing.

Now, if you make the (perfectly valid) argument that without pain, life would be much more boring in general, I would say that perhaps you could just limit the suffering to reasonable levels so no one has to be tortured or live in misery for most/all of their lives, but would still have to deal with the loss of loved ones, sometimes failing to achieve things, etc.

Or even, as a god, I could implement some sort of karma system such that the net happiness anyone experiences in life is some fixed value, probably positive. That way it's completely fair to everyone, and free will still exists too!

Free will doesn't require suffering. And even if it did, there's absolutely no way it requires eternal suffering, especially just for people who didn't believe in me.


When's the next god election? I'm thinking of running.

 

[Dotini]

Oh, yes, I was taken a bit off from my original meaning, that's my fault for trying to sum up an entire conversation into 1 paragraph. I don't rule out science as an explanation, I ruled out 'what we know so far'. Maybe a hundred years from now this will be textbook, who knows.
But the possibility that there ARE dimensions filled with other peoples/dead/aliens/elvis or whatever, leads to the possibility that 'some' things once believed to be hoaxes, might not be. And on that, is it not possible that one day a God theory might actually not only be possible, but we might PROVE it with future science breakthroughs?

Oh, and Husk, let me rephrase what I said.
I don't think there's definitely a supreme being behind things, but I don't think theres definitely NOT one. I think the amount of unknowns in the univer need to be unraveled a bit more before anyone can say to a definite either way.

This is a reasonable, agnostic position.

 

[Villain]

I love how atheists cant stop talking or thinking about God , religion . It is like how the kkk cant stop talking or thinking about black people .

I like to take the time on occasion to critically examine my personal philosophies. "Why do I believe X?" "Could I be wrong about Y?"

It's an activity which seems, to me at least, to have enhanced my perceptions of people and society around me.

 

[Beeblebrox237]

The original kind.

I didn't know you were Jewish!

 

[Dmarc_Atl]

Well, to be fair, the title of the thread is "Do you believe in god".. rather than "Does god exist" or "Should we believe in God". Really there isn't so much to debate when somebody gives a simple yes or no based on an opinion on such a broad topic.



What I find interesting is that after around 1200 votes, it's so evenly split between the No! and the Yes/Maybe people. I've yet to cast my vote still

Yea I'm surprised so many people believe in a god.I do for my own personal reasons.I just hate that people try to use logic to explain faith.Its impossible to do so, and you're going to be arguing about the existence or the lack of forever (I mean this argument has been going on since day 1), so arguing about it is pointless imo. Unless you're actually trying to learn something instead of prove each other wrong, you're not going to accomplish anything.Chances of swaying a random person religious views on an internet board are slim.

 

[Danoff]

I dont remember saying science was flawed. Oh, that's because I didn't.

Bottom line is, when you see actual proof, that living breathing physical science is NOT all there is, it forces you to wonder how much else that i cast out in disbelief actually has truth to it.

You can see how I might misunderstand.

 

[demonchilde]

Pizza isn't all there is, doesn't mean pizza is flawed.

There is either A; a whole branch of science we haven't discovered yet (which is highly likely) or B; something else that mirrors the physics we know, presant in our atmosphere.