Do you still support PD?

[DaveS1138]

Yah, it was just a bit of silly on my part sparked by too much coffee.
I'm in no way interested in finding PD specific hype links for real though has it's easily found all over the news blogs of GTP over the last six years, in the form of "Kaz says blah at this event, to that magazine, and/or in vauge tweets" type articles. I would also recognize that the rest of the internet is even more guilty of hyping itself by running round crazy at the posting of each of those such articles, and would have most likely overly hyped itself without anything at all from Kaz anyway. So to me it's moot. PD hype or no PD hype, the end result is the same, and proving fault accomplishes nothing in the way of changing the minds of people who wish to lay blame on a respective party.

That's OK I could tell your post was just a funny jab

I agree that there was a large level of hype surround the game pre-release......but that hype was not comming from PD IMO. As I said the criticism most people leveld at PD all through the development of GT5 was how little they said at all about the game.

The game press and the fans...they certainly let roll the hype train. But how can anybody hold PD responsible for that? If the fans or the gaming press hyped the game to a level that no title could ever hope to match how is that anything to do with PD?

 

[Tenacious D]

It would take a couple of hours for me: unlock all paint chips and make them have unlimited usage, and make time/weather options available for offline. That's all I want.

Unlocking paint chips is one thing, assuming that redoing the entire paint system would take a couple of hours, which I doubt.

Time and weather options are another thing entirely. I don't think you grasp what a headache it can be to take an offline system and move it onto a structure of servers with dynamic and unpredictable bandwidth. There were so many games made through the years which had online features stripped off because making it work online as well as offline was undoable. Even with the incredible advances made on internet performance, we still don't have the performance necessary to do what we want. Maybe in 2012 or later, we will, but when that will be is anyone's guess.

Many things could be implemented, but everything takes time and testing. Otherwise, everything the team has done for us could have been done in a few weeks, minus indefinite time for the disruptions of the tsunami.

Whenever anyone brings up this argument, it never makes any sense. How does people moving to another game help Polyphony?

A handful of whiners on a board are inconsequential in relation to total sales. You might argue that they will tell 10 friends, who will tell 10 friends, and so on, until sales of GT5 drop to almost nothing. But that clearly hasn't happened, and won't. There are evidently more people who say otherwise, are still playing GT5, and don't care how miserable someone else is. My friends playing GT5 all have their own opinions as to how good or bad the game is, but so far, board opinions to them are irrelevant, and the pluses are much greater than the minuses. Positive opinions are just as valid as negative ones.

 

[sesselpupser]

Do I still support them? Yes. There are far, far worse pieces of software out there that never get patched, and you have to remember that it's not always the developer's fault, the publishers have a hand in how things turn out.

GT5, perfect or not, is still an incredible amount of content and value for the money, there have been updates adding features, fixing glitches (and, yeah, introducing new glitches, but it's improved since the release) and new events are added on a semi- (maybe quasi-) regular basis.

I find it hard to believe that people find GT5 to be a bad game in absolute terms, it may fall short compared to other sims or racing games in some ways, but like I said, compared to other games you could be playing you do get a lot for your money.

 

[Akira GT]

Can we please just close this because this is just turning into a big arguement completely against what the OP wanted... This should have just been a poll with Yes, No or Unsure

 

[robbo6]

I don't expect any game to have everything I want. That's not the way of doing it.

And it is a valid thread question, yes, but controversial since many peoples opinions have changed after the release and people just seem to jump on and give massive opinions on why it's happened. I myself didn't entirely want everything in the game, but I've accepted their place in the game where as others just say at their first glance 'OMG PD WTF Horns yes Porsche 956 no???' There is only so much PD can do, so they try to maximize what they can use and just leave it at that. Also if PD were Arsenal they'd still be the 4th best game company around, they're more like Crystal Palace. No matter how low they go I've been on their bandwagon long enough to keep a support of them though. And remember, times are troubled for PD as well. They can't be a Man Utd in their current situation so you can't say they'll be there. If my favorite team can't be at the top I can accept it.

Maybe you don't think that way and kudos to you, but quite a few on this forum think that way and it sucks. It's incredibly selfish.

Regarding my football analogy, PD Shouldn't be Palace (hope that doesn't offend) PD were Man Utd for so long and SHOULD still be there but GT5 has dropped them down.

Another analogy I think works for me is the George Lucas and Star Wars analogy.

Kaz is George.....GT1 - GT4 are the original trilogy. GT5 is Episode one...it's not crap, but it wasn't a patch on the earlier films despite being technically better. Someone needs to have the balls within PD to tell Kaz an idea is ****e when it is....but I fear he's got such a reputation he's surrounded by spineless "yes" men. Let's hope Kaz doesn't do an equivalent to Crystal Skull....shudders.

I appreciate that PD and Japan are in a difficult period....but if they'd done the game right in the first place that would all be irrelevant. And that has nowt to do with the crappy single file rolling starts....Does ANYONE prefer them over standing starts? (not counting proper dual file standing starts for NASCAR and SGT...the real series do that).

 

[NA]

That's OK I could tell your post was just a funny jab

I agree that there was a large level of hype surround the game pre-release......but that hype was not comming from PD IMO. As I said the criticism most people leveld at PD all through the development of GT5 was how little they said at all about the game.

The game press and the fans...they certainly let roll the hype train. But how can anybody hold PD responsible for that? If the fans or the gaming press hyped the game to a level that no title could ever hope to match how is that anything to do with PD?

Yep, that's why I consider it moot. You'd have to prove PD intended for fans/press to go overboard based on what Kaz said, as a dilliberate advertising tactic, and I don't think even Kaz himself admitting/denying to it would have any productive effect on the debate anyway. People would still believe what they want, and blame who they want accordingly. Rationality is a commodity often in short supply.

 

[deep_sky]

Time and weather options are another thing entirely. I don't think you grasp what a headache it can be to take an offline system and move it onto a structure of servers with dynamic and unpredictable bandwidth.

Are you misunderstanding me? I don't understand what being able to select time/weather options for tracks when you're offline has to do with online.

You can select time/weather options for Course Maker tracks when you're offline...my point is we need to be able to set time/weather options for Ring/Sarthe when we're offline. Could that be so hard? I find it puzzling as to why it could.

 

[Jubby]

I cannot fathom how people want to complain about a company that has cranked out 5 excellent titles in 12 years. I will admit that there are issues to each title, including GT5. The super part is that PD is willing to work on these! In all of the other PS3 titles I own, there are as many, if not more, glitches/bugs. Only a few fix them, and they don't fix them all. Most of the ones that are patched only have 2-3 updates in it's lifetime (e.g. 1.04). We're up to 1.10?! and that was effectively 2 major updates, 3 important, and 4 minor updates. They added FREE content (Seasonals, OCD). They must have added a hundred hours of play for the GT enthusiast, spent hundreds of man hours working on it, for FREE. In the thousands of hours I've played this series (that sounds kind of sad thinking about it) I have more than enjoyed the vast majority of it.

I completely understand how people feel cheated or disappointed by the release of GT5, as it was marred with delays and some of the game felt half-done. I feel that some of that has to do with our expectation of the fact that the game being on a new console, its predecessors, and that each iteration should be equally better than the last from the one before that. This is starting to become impossible for any video game creator. We're looking for the perfect simulation, and it cannot happen. I hope every coder, developer, and tester can rest assured that they're doing an excellent job. Millions enjoy this game and I think we need to stop taking all of the extra free stuff we're getting for granted.

 

[Griffith500]

To be honest, when I read "expect perfection" I thought that it was a touch uncharacteristic for Kaz. It left me wondering if he was having PR lessons.

He's always said that he tries to put as much as possible into each game, and each release there are a whole range of things that didn't make it in because they couldn't get it working to a point where Kaz was happy with it. GT5 has little flourishes of inspiration here and there, and you can see some promise in a lot of it, but we really don't know what things were left on the counter when the game shipped, because Kaz wasn't happy with it. Granted, there are a lot of things in the game that seem at odds with his apparent perfectionism, but I really think GT5's development has been quite tumultuous which has caused it to be a bit disparate and, well, badly put together overall.

Remember the original model for the interim game, Vision GT / GT:HD; something to tide us over before GT5? It would have had cars ported from GT4 and a handful of premium cars that you would pay for individually. Micro-transactions, basically. A business model that Kaz disapproves of, so why would he be showing it off in his next game? Funnily enough, that never came to be, and we got a "glorified demo" instead, which received a few decent updates and constant patching, hinting at what would come for GT5's after-service; well sort-of. Maybe in October...

So, I'm intrigued to think about the things that couldn't get put into GT5, for whatever reason, and I'll remain curious as to what PD do next, of course.
In that sense, I would like to encourage PD to keep going with what they're doing, so I suppose that counts as support.

 

[Authentic718]

Seing the new Footage of Forza 4 on gamespot this morning.. I think it's safe to say that GT is officially in it's deathbed

Highly doubt that, HIGHLY!

 

[Smuttysy]

I'd like to say wholeheartedly that I do support PD. Unfortunately though, GT5 has made me feel otherwise.
I understand there may be issues behind the scenes that have led to delays in updates and bug fixes over the year, but that doesn't detract from the major, underlying problems that many of us find in the game. The (sub)Standard cars, for example have been cut and pasted from releases on lower spec consoles, without any effort to make them visually worthy of a PS3 title. I don't mind that, to a degree, they cut corners on the production values because (and I hate this defense so much) "they were rushed by Sony to release it." Where they cut corners in production, I cut corners on the track

Don't get me wrong, I love the game, even in it's current state, but am disappointed by what seems to be a lack of pride in their own product. If I had to point out one example of this it would be the Gran Turismo emblazoned R34 race and pace cars. Personally, I would make sure anything with my company's branding on it was of the highest possible quality before unleashing it into the world.

One of the things that's really making me question my faith with them is that now they're talking about GT6 and PS4. In my opinion, fix the product you've released already before even thinking about mentioning the next release for a machine that doesn't even exist yet.

 

[GroupBmonsters]

I still support PD in every way.

And boy, if you critise the lack of DLC and Patches, than you've never played Test Drive Unlimited

Haven't played in months because of that. Absolutely rediculous! Its so broken that I can't even complain about GT5.

 

[mastretta_mx]

One of the things that's really making me question my faith with them is that now they're talking about GT6 and PS4. In my opinion, fix the product you've released already before even thinking about mentioning the next release for a machine that doesn't even exist yet.

They are not talking about GT6 in PS4, That's a rumor created by people after a Yoshida interview in wich he talked about "next PD in concept fase" he never said it was GT6 and neither PS4, also he said than PD is still working hard on updates for the current game (GT5).

So this is one of the main problems, people start talking even before read 💡

 

[Smuttysy]

I didn't say the two were interlinked, just that BOTH have been mentioned.
I've read the rumours and have come to the same conclusion that a lot of other people may have. If there's no official word from inside then all we have to go on is our own interpretations, or misinterpretations on any information.
There's also the fact that, allegedly, Kaz complained about the PS3 not having enough power, so the logical conclusion would be that they'll develop the next GT for the PS4.

(oh, and if that was meant as a direct dig at me personally - *Which and *Phase)

 

[ChaosStar79]

One of the things that's really making me question my faith with them is that now they're talking about GT6 and PS4. In my opinion, fix the product you've released already before even thinking about mentioning the next release for a machine that doesn't even exist yet.

This. I've been playing the GT games since the very first one. I actually played it at a friend's place then went and bought a PS1 just so I could play GT soon after that. BUT, after all the issues with gt5 and all the advertised and broken promises, Unless they actually fix GT5 into what I payed for, I'm done. I'm just done. This franchise has all the potential for greatness but continually drops the ball and makes excuses of being rushed. I just don't care anymore for their excuses. If you can't deliver what you promise, then stfu. I will not buy gt6 unless gt5 is made right first. [/rant]

 

[Bushby_23]

No game can be everything for everyone. Let's get that clear. What appeals to some people means absolutely nothing to others. And that's the same for every game made. It's just how it is.

I love gt5. Sure, there are certain features that were poorly implemented, like the b spec mode. I preferred the one in gt4 where during a pitstop you could swap drivers and speed up time. That's not to say it was completely crap, just that it could've been done better in my opinion. The level mode hasn't really been all that great either. Good potential for it, just poor execution (that being said I am yet to grind simply to level up, just for cash for the current ocd).

Things like dlc, or rather a lack of, really don't bother me at all, and certainly isn't a game breaker. Yes, I would love more cars and tracks, but I am quite fine with the tracks and cars available. Extra features have been implemented through patches (eg suits), and while not overly important, they still give a nice touch to the overall experience. More premium cars too, I not too sure I wholeheartedly care for. Yes, it would be lovely to have them finally look 100% true to their real life counter parts, with every detail imaginable taken into consideration. But its not like the standards don't drive like a premium, its still the same driving experience, minus an interior view (I normally just use bumper cam anyway).

So do I still support pd? Of course. Though all the hype they made for it and the product that followed weren't deserving of each other, I played then as I still do now, and will continue to do so for quite a while to come. Yes other games will or have already come to me, I will still go back for what is possibly one if the greatest (so far) console game/sims out there. And that's the question you have to ask yourself: for all the moaning you throw out about gt5, are you still playing it now? If you answer yes to that question, then you should really think if the game is really as bad as you make it out to be.

 

[CSLACR]

I remember when bugs that ruined types of game play didn't exist, everything worked, and downloaded patches did not exist yet, when companies had to deliver quality from the start, no turning back.
I believe very soon those will be referred to as the "golden ages" of gaming.

It's not just GT, it's many new games, just crap shoots left and right, maybe if I liked non-racing games I'd find less glitches and bugs in every single game, idk. Just video games in general, have gone downhill massively in quality over the past decade. Sure, they all look better and promise things not imaginable before, but for me bugs, glitches, and general failure in gameplay far override the improvements the gaming world has seen.
Online play is the sole savior of the modern gaming world, and the sole cause of destruction, it seems that offline play no longer matters to developers, which leaves only online, and when games have all the issues they do online, what does that leave? Constantly having to make the "best of a bad scenario". 👎 for the entire gaming industry from me.

 

[Tenacious D]

after all the issues with gt5 and all the advertised and broken promises, Unless they actually fix GT5 into what I payed for, I'm done. I'm just done. This franchise has all the potential for greatness but continually drops the ball and makes excuses of being rushed. I just don't care anymore for their excuses. If you can't deliver what you promise, then stfu. I will not buy gt6 unless gt5 is made right first. [/rant]

Whatever that means. Get rid of the XP system? Delete B-Spec Mode or drastically change it? Make all Standard cars Premiums? You might as well leave now, because nothing like that is going to happen. Obviously, only something equivalent to GT6 will make you happy - maybe, because you have nothing good to say about the improvements and fixes done so far. Save yourself - and us - a mess of trouble and depart.

It's not just GT, it's many new games, just crap shoots left and right, maybe if I liked non-racing games I'd find less glitches and bugs in every single game, idk. Just video games in general, have gone downhill massively in quality over the past decade. Sure, they all look better and promise things not imaginable before, but for me bugs, glitches, and general failure in gameplay far override the improvements the gaming world has seen.

So you only play racing games, but all games are now crap in your opinion? How would you know?

I happen to play a wide range of games from Devil May Cry to LittleBigPlanet to GT5, and no, games in general aren't full of fail bugs. The flaws and glitches in GT5 pale in comparison to the crap I had to deal with in Forza 3. I stopped playing it and am about to get back to GT5 shortly, so guess where I'm going with that.

 

[Spagetti69]

The flaws and glitches in GT5 pale in comparison to the crap I had to deal with in Forza 3.

Well I never, I am totally shocked to hear something like that from you D.

Lol.

 

[Jacob6875]

Ill let you know in 4-6 years when Gran Turismo 6 comes out.


I will probably buy an Xbox soon so I can play Forza 4 (and 5,6,7,8). That are going to be made before the release of GT6.

 

[CSLACR]

So you only play racing games, but all games are now crap in your opinion? How would you know?

I happen to play a wide range of games from Devil May Cry to LittleBigPlanet to GT5, and no, games in general aren't full of fail bugs. The flaws and glitches in GT5 pale in comparison to the crap I had to deal with in Forza 3. I stopped playing it and am about to get back to GT5 shortly, so guess where I'm going with that.

No, they're all I play anymore. Big difference. The more videos I have to watch, the less I play. I also got spoiled by online play, and I dislike playing with myself (insert pun) anymore.
I have a brother-in-law that keeps me in-the-know on many games, and many online problems, among other things.
There's a few games I could ramble on about bad online experiences constantly, and/or just generally un-interesting offline play, but the reality for me won't change, I found older, simpler games much more fun, possibly due to being easier, as I won't ever be willing to spend months and months beating a game, aside from more realistic racing games, but for example, Devil May Cry 4, was the most redundant game I've played in a long time, entirely to easy on easy, entirely to hard on hard.
It's just my two cents on the "new" gaming world, where everything is tapered to either imbeciles that can't play any game for crap, and/or hardcore enthusiasts, and I don't fit into either catagory.

 

[alucard0712]

This. I've been playing the GT games since the very first one. I actually played it at a friend's place then went and bought a PS1 just so I could play GT soon after that. BUT, after all the issues with gt5 and all the advertised and broken promises, Unless they actually fix GT5 into what I payed for, I'm done. I'm just done. This franchise has all the potential for greatness but continually drops the ball and makes excuses of being rushed. I just don't care anymore for their excuses. If you can't deliver what you promise, then stfu. I will not buy gt6 unless gt5 is made right first. [/rant]

Don't you think that GT6 might be all that GT5 were supposed to be? To me - definitely yes.
And of course you will buy GT6 don't start that talking...

 

[ChaosStar79]

Don't you think that GT6 might be all that GT5 were supposed to be? To me - definitely yes.
And of course you will buy GT6 don't start that talking...

Honestly, after the lack of concern put into this current GT title, not a chance. IMO PD has a lot of making up to do to everyone for the dishonest advertising and general half assedness.

I remember when bugs that ruined types of game play didn't exist, everything worked, and downloaded patches did not exist yet, when companies had to deliver quality from the start, no turning back.
I believe very soon those will be referred to as the "golden ages" of gaming.

It's not just GT, it's many new games, just crap shoots left and right, maybe if I liked non-racing games I'd find less glitches and bugs in every single game, idk. Just video games in general, have gone downhill massively in quality over the past decade. Sure, they all look better and promise things not imaginable before, but for me bugs, glitches, and general failure in gameplay far override the improvements the gaming world has seen.
Online play is the sole savior of the modern gaming world, and the sole cause of destruction, it seems that offline play no longer matters to developers, which leaves only online, and when games have all the issues they do online, what does that leave? Constantly having to make the "best of a bad scenario". 👎 for the entire gaming industry from me.

Yup. I'm not paying for false promises anymore. I'll find some other way to fulfill my NFS if GT can't deliver what they promise.

Whatever that means. Get rid of the XP system? Delete B-Spec Mode or drastically change it? Make all Standard cars Premiums? You might as well leave now, because nothing like that is going to happen. Obviously, only something equivalent to GT6 will make you happy - maybe, because you have nothing good to say about the improvements and fixes done so far. Save yourself - and us - a mess of trouble and depart.

You sound like you are personally offended by my opinion. Do you work for PD or what?

 

[ChaosStar79]

my bad. please delete this post

 

[DaveS1138]

I remember when bugs that ruined types of game play didn't exist, everything worked, and downloaded patches did not exist yet, when companies had to deliver quality from the start, no turning back.
I believe very soon those will be referred to as the "golden ages" of gaming.

.

I'm not sure when this "golden age" of gaming was. I remember trying to play 'The Hobbit' in 1982 on a 48K spectrum and it being utterly unplayable because of it's many game breaking bugs.

Frontier : First encounter is another stand out moment from my gaming youth.

Games have always had bugs......ever since they were very first made.


I have to admit though I am suprised to find people complain about bugs in GT5. Compared to many modern games it seems to me to be a relatively bug free game.

Try playing 'Fallout : New Vegas' some time and then tell me if you think GT5 is riddled with bugs.

 

[Raven_WET01]

This would be better as a poll, but I'm going to say no. After 5+ years and over $80 million in development cost, this game is absolutely unacceptable.

-Let's be honest, it only simulates driving on the track and with specific tires. Grass and sand surfaces have poor physics, racing soft tires turn it into an arcade game, damage is a complete joke, and crash physics are glitchy and completely unrealistic.

-Online could have been so much more. User-created racing leagues, car shows, racing teams... putting people on a track and hitting "go" isn't the best for player interaction.

-Car and track selection could've been better. I'm not upset with what we have now for available courses, and I don't want anything ridiculous like a massive open driving environment. But they missed a lot of important real world circuits. Also, they needed a legitimate track creator, not a course generator. An out of game editor would've saved a lot of room on the disk and allowed for some great sharing, or even online collaborations to replicate real world tracks that weren't included or classic favorites (like Red Rock Valley Speedway).

The whole standard car issue has been brought up time and time again, in that they did a bunch of trim levels with rather unimportant differences. There are around 800 standard cars that simply exist to take up disk space and inflate the car count. Those should've been cut out and be replaced with an additional 300 premium cars. The current selection of premium vehicles is actually a lot lower than people give credit for. The NASCAR's and a lot of the JGTC are exact replicas with different livery. The premium car count is actually around 180 when you factor out the duplicates.

-Detail should be way better. These cars look all right on the outside, but the interior on most premium cars really isn't that good. The tracks only look good between the guard rails too, most scenery is iffy. Graphically there's a lot to complain about, most notably rough shading, smoke/rain pixilation, and low resolution reflections.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

All things considered, there's no reason for this game to have turned out this way. It seems like a complete lack of planning from the beginning and no organization. For the few people that have played this game without any updates (I got a chance at a friend's house one time), you would be appalled at what they considered "ready to ship." A lot of the things we take for granted weren't even included initially. Tires wouldn't cool down or stop smoking once they heated up, you had to attempt to buy specific parts before it would tell you they weren't available, and they weren't checked off once you did buy them. I'm sorry, but Gran Turismo shouldn't just be good by videogame standards. It has the second highest production budget of all time, so why is it so incomplete?

 

[CSLACR]

I'm not sure when this "golden age" of gaming was. I remember trying to play 'The Hobbit' in 1982 on a 48K spectrum and it being utterly unplayable because of it's many game breaking bugs.

Frontier : First encounter is another stand out moment from my gaming youth.

Games have always had bugs......ever since they were very first made.


I have to admit though I am suprised to find people complain about bugs in GT5. Compared to many modern games it seems to me to be a relatively bug free game.

Try playing 'Fallout : New Vegas' some time and then tell me if you think GT5 is riddled with bugs.

I was born in 1983 if that gives you a clue.
10-15 years ago. Twisted Metal 1,2,3 GT1, 2, 3 (only bug I know of was completion %), Sonic games, Andretti Racing, older Mortal Kombats when fatalities weren't handed out on a silver platter, Timesplitters 1,2 most NFS titles before Shift, Grand Theft Auto 3, Vice City, Area 51, Hang Time, Streets of Rage, NBA Jam, Madden '04, NASCAR '98, to name a few, never encountered bugs of significance in any of these games. Maybe there were a few, but they never disrupted my gameplay, which is what matters to me.

Try playing 'Fallout : New Vegas'

Interesting, as the last reply I got on bugs was insinuating most new games are relatively bug free.

And I think you may be forgetting what GT5 is exactly, for anyone offline. If you can't update, TBH, GT5 pretty much sucks, flat-out. Loads of content, diddly for features and gameplay all make GT5 a dull boy in true offline play.
I haven't touched A-Spec mode in months and that was only a spurt because of the updated cash and XP, another thing you may have forgotten is the original level of rewards in GT5, among other things.

All things considered, there's no reason for this game to have turned out this way. It seems like a complete lack of planning from the beginning and no organization. For the few people that have played this game without any updates (I got a chance at a friend's house one time), you would be appalled at what they considered "ready to ship." A lot of the things we take for granted weren't even included initially. Tires wouldn't cool down or stop smoking once they heated up, you had to attempt to buy specific parts before it would tell you they weren't available, and they weren't checked off once you did buy them. I'm sorry, but Gran Turismo shouldn't just be good by videogame standards. It has the second highest production budget of all time, so why is it so incomplete?

While I don't actually care for most things you mentioned, and I disagree that JGTC cars are alike, as each is in fact different, some quite different, you're final and overall point is spot-on.
This is the largest, highest selling racing franchise of all time, which took an extraordinary amount of time to create, and it is very half-assed.

The updates have helped, but they've mostly given what should have been included in the first place, so I can't ship to much kudos to PD for them, as of now, there are still things left out that should have been in from day one, and it's a pretty big list.
Most notably, the most requested feature (last I checked) feature on GTPlanet, endurance saves / multiple drivers for endurance races. Not to touch the logistics on a single driver IRL taking on 24 hours of racing straight.

 

[DaveS1138]

I was born in 1983 if that gives you a clue.
10-15 years ago. Twisted Metal 1,2,3 GT1, 2, 3 (only bug I know of was completion %), Sonic games, Andretti Racing, older Mortal Kombats when fatalities weren't handed out on a silver platter, Timesplitters 1,2 most NFS titles before Shift, Grand Theft Auto 3, Vice City, Area 51, Hang Time, Streets of Rage, NBA Jam, Madden '04, NASCAR '98, to name a few, never encountered bugs of significance in any of these games. Maybe there were a few, but they never disrupted my gameplay, which is what matters to me.

I actually haven't played the majority of titles on that list. I do remember talk of a bug in GT2 that would erase your saved game.....kind of a big game breaking bug.....infact whilst doing a quick google to check up on that I came across this.

GT2 arrived in stores in mid-December in a clearly unfinished state.
There were bugs present in the original GT, the most prominent of which had to be where AI cars passed through walls to end up outside the boundaries of the track. None of the bugs, however, seriously affected one's ability to enjoy the game. But there are enough serious bugs in GT2 that Sony has recently offered to exchange buggy discs for bug-free ones through its Consumer Services Department, something almost unheard of in the realm of console gaming. Details can be found at psx.ign.com.
That's not to say that GT2 is a disappointment. The number of cars available to choose from is particularly mind-boggling.

http://www.ex.org/5.1/45-game_granturismo2.html

It's actually pretty funny to read that and substitute GT5 for GT2 and it could be written by any one of several posters on this site today

I'm sure if I did a search on the other titles in your list I would find several with known bugs......the point is that all software titles have bugs.....some very minor.....some massive game breaking bugs.....they always have had and they always will.

Interesting, as the last reply I got on bugs was insinuating most new games are relatively bug free.

And I think you may be forgetting what GT5 is exactly, for anyone offline. If you can't update, TBH, GT5 pretty much sucks, flat-out. Loads of content, diddly for features and gameplay all make GT5 a dull boy in true offline play.
I haven't touched A-Spec mode in months and that was only a spurt because of the updated cash and XP, another thing you may have forgotten is the original level of rewards in GT5, among other things.

None of those are bugs with the game in any way though. They may be design choices you did not like PD making.....but they were not bugs.

As for me, No GT5 did not suck in the form it was released in. I played it from release date and have had months and months of enjoyment from it even before the patches.

I have reached level 40 in a-spec and b-spec and the vast majority of that progression was before they changed the reward system.

You may not like GT5 as it is or as it was at launch. But I do not feel it was in any way a seriously flawed game. It wasn't a perfect game (which contrary to common sense seems to be what some people expecte it to be) but I would never describe it as a seriously flawed game. It was a damn good game that has been made even better with some post release patching.

 

[CSLACR]

I actually haven't played the majority of titles on that list. I do remember talk of a bug in GT2 that would erase your saved game.....kind of a big game breaking bug.....infact whilst doing a quick google to check up on that I came across this.



http://www.ex.org/5.1/45-game_granturismo2.html

True, forgot about that, probably because I never owned a bugged disc. But look! They fixed it promptly, without adding bugs. FYI - I never once had AI drive through a wall, in countless hours of game play, in any GT game to date.

It's actually pretty funny to read that and substitute GT5 for GT2 and it could be written by any one of several posters on this site today

Yep, over a decade later and they made the same bug again, how is that improvement? (the thing that should happen over more than 10 years)
Why didn't you Google GT5 bugs? Is it because there were more? AI starting on wrong tires, game save deletes, accompanied by saves that cannot be transferred? In GT2 you could at least grab a copy online if you had the means, GT5's bug was a no-way-out tragedy. Ability to pass through walls, (hmmm) did I mention not all the features listed on the box are not available, even with updates, getting close to a year after release? You may not call it a bug, but you should call it something bad.
But you already know these things, don't you?

I'm sure if I did a search on the other titles in your list I would find several with known bugs......the point is that all software titles have bugs.....some very minor.....some massive game breaking bugs.....they always have had and they always will.

I never encountered any, which means they couldn't have been severe. Also note probably not a single one of these games listed (aside from a team of 12 making GT1) took 6 years to produce. Standards change when you're the biggest racing franchise in history, and you take 6 years to release a game, vs the industry average of 2 years or so.

None of those are bugs with the game in any way though. They may be design choices you did not like PD making.....but they were not bugs.

As for me, No GT5 did not suck in the form it was released in. I played it from release date and have had months and months of enjoyment from it even before the patches.

That's fine, I listed bugs now. I'm telling you some of us out there, who have also been die hard fans, (a lot of us) were extremely let down.

I have reached level 40 in a-spec and b-spec and the vast majority of that progression was before they changed the reward system.

Level 36-37 is about halfway. "Vast majority"?
Perhaps if (if you reached that high) before the updates your game save self-destructed at level 38 you'd have a different outlook? And it's fine if you reached level 40 before the update, but it also puts you in the higher 1% of players.

You may not like GT5 as it is or as it was at launch. But I do not feel it was in any way a seriously flawed game. It wasn't a perfect game (which contrary to common sense seems to be what some people expecte it to be) but I would never describe it as a seriously flawed game. It was a damn good game that has been made even better with some post release patching.

Do you realize mathematically two-thirds of "career" mode, or whatever you'd like to call it, is watching the game play itself? (also known as "B-Spec")
2/3 is the game playing all by itself. Let that sink in and come back and tell me that's something great games do.

 

[Leadbelly]

It´s not perfect, but is there anything like on PS3? what would you get instead? shift 2?

It certainly is value for money with the amount of content in it, ive certainly played it enough hours to get my money´s worth and I will pick up GT6 when it comes out.

hope the give it a couple of years though, so I can platinum this one first