EPA Eliminates Off Cycle Credit that lead to Auto Start/Stop feature

[CodeRedR51]

Hopefully manufactures get rid of it...

Administrator Zeldin Eliminates Off-Cycle Credit for Almost Universally Hated Start-Stop Feature in Vehicles | US EPA

EPA Administrator Lee Zeldin eliminated the off-cycle credit that was used to implement the almost universally hated start-stop feature in American vehicles.

www.epa.gov

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

They eliminated a lot more than that....

 

[Famine]

Every car with a stop-start system I've ever driven has a button to turn it off, usually in a panel to the outside of the steering wheel or in the dazzling array around the gear selector.

Why bother when you can just get it regulated away, eh? Small government FTW!

Start-Stop Systems:Start-stop systems (sometimes called idle-stop, smart start, or other manufacturer-specific names) save fuel by turning off the engine when the vehicle comes to a stop and automatically starting it back up when you step on the accelerator. Start-stop can improve fuel economy by 4%–5% and provides the biggest benefit in conditions where the engine would otherwise be idling, such as stop-and-go city driving.

The figures are... woefully out of date and lowball, but the quote above? That'll be the EPA.

Advanced Gasoline and Diesel Vehicles | US EPA

Information about gasoline and diesel advanced technology vehicles.

www.epa.gov

Meanwhile Electrek has this to say:

Despite that legal requirement, Lee Zeldin – a fraudster placed into the position of chief saboteur of the EPA by a convicted felon who sought a billion-dollar bribe from the oil industry while running for an office he is Constitutionally barred from holding – has announced the finalization of his plan to repeal this finding [that greenhouse gases are harmful to human health] today, flying in the face of law, science, public health and American economic interests.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Hopefully manufactures get rid of it...

Administrator Zeldin Eliminates Off-Cycle Credit for Almost Universally Hated Start-Stop Feature in Vehicles | US EPA

EPA Administrator Lee Zeldin eliminated the off-cycle credit that was used to implement the almost universally hated start-stop feature in American vehicles.

www.epa.gov

I mean...there are much bigger concerns around this...uh...movement...but one thing I cannot stand is the absolutely juvenile language used to editorialize official government press releases. I DON'T WANT MY GOVERNMENT TO COMMUNICATE LIKE A TWITTER PERSONALITY.

 

[CodeRedR51]

The Sentra lease car I had for a year saved 200 milliliters (0.05 US gallons) of fuel over the time I used the system. Which was usually only in the winter time because in the summer time when the engine shuts off the AC basically stops working....a no-go in the Arizona desert.

When I was using it, 50% of the time it didn't work at all because the car wasn't happy with one of the thousands of requirements it looks at to make it function. As someone that works R&D for a car manufacture and is actually testing this system on a car right now, tested another car a couple weeks ago, and have another one lined up next week, I am having trouble even doing my test because the system isn't working. If you key on and the car sees any less than a certain battery SOC, it won't function.

As far as the button goes, there are devices to force it OFF at all times because a large majority of the population hates having to press a button as much as they hate the system itself.

 

[McLaren]

Aren't these at a point where the manufacturers decide if they even want them in or not? The last BMW rental I had, it was off by default & the Chevrolets I work around don't have them or they're also disabled by default.

 

[DK]

I give it a year before the EPA allows leaded petrol again.

 

[Famine]

Aren't these at a point where the manufacturers decide if they even want them in or not? The last BMW rental I had, it was off by default & the Chevrolets I work around don't have them or they're also disabled by default.

Always were, as far as I'm aware. Even over here in Europe it's not mandatory, but manufacturers fit them to benefit from idle moments in the test cycle (even the shorter stops in WLTP).

And they're becoming more and more irrelevant as the BEV car parc increases - well, at least in places that aren't pushing back on BEVs too; nearly a quarter of new sales in the UK were BEVs last year - so taking action on them now when they're a decreasing "problem" is just... well, about par for the course.


I love the glee over having totally unnecessary agency intervention to disincentivise a system that one can easily turn off and which apparently barely activates anyway when on. Imagine being that annoyed at something that almost never affects you, but saves you money when it does.

I've never needed seatbelts, and they're so annoying to put on and wear, causing damage to clothing where they rub. Airbags too, and they add unnecessary weight and emit noxious fumes in operation.

Come on and ban them already, raw milk daddy.

Edit: Ope, looks like I struck a nerve with a too-fearty-to-actually-quote quote. Which is odd given previous claims of being dead...

Personally I find most stop-start systems to be crap, especially on diesels as they shudder back into life. This though is just stupid grandstanding from stupid people trying to distract from where at least one of them - and almost certainly way more - gets his jollies.

Apropos of that, I just learned that "Kid Rock" is (more or less) a person and not shorthand for Little St. James island...

 

[eran0004]

I never had a problem with the stop-start system on my car. The start is triggered by adjusting the pressure on the brake pedal, so the engine is up and running by the time you reach the accelerator.

 

[CodeRedR51]

The fact that defeat devices exist to eliminate having to push a button every time you start the car is proof enough that people don't want to push a button every time they start the car.

Also, "saves you money" is laughable when its 0.05 gallons a year.

 

[Aphelion]

Stop-start is very mildly annoying. The systematic dismantling of the EPA at the hands of a fascist dictator is much, much worse than mildly annoying.

 

[05XR8]

I was never a fan of it. A few generations of used cars stuck with that technology. It’s like the old motorised passenger restraint system. A gimmick that didn’t need to be.

 

[Famine]

Says it all, really:



The actual White House.

 

[kjb]

I have never been bothered by the stop start outside of the first it happened in my car. Later on I found that people were annoyed by it. I also didn't know you can switch it off.

 

[daan]

Hopefully manufactures get rid of it...

Administrator Zeldin Eliminates Off-Cycle Credit for Almost Universally Hated Start-Stop Feature in Vehicles | US EPA

EPA Administrator Lee Zeldin eliminated the off-cycle credit that was used to implement the almost universally hated start-stop feature in American vehicles.

www.epa.gov

Why not make it an opt-in system instead of getting rid of it?

I have 3 cars that have had it and never had any issues with it. My Mazda 3 was a manual so I could control whither the system kicked in or not via the clutch. If you kept the clutch pedal pressed, the engine stayed on. If you released the clutch in neutral then the engine went off, and restarted when you pressed the clutch to select a gear. It also didn't use the starter motor to restart. My next car, and current car, are automatic Jaguar XE. As @eran0004 says, you don't need to press the throttle pedal to get it to restart, all you do is release the brake pressure for it to come back on. At that point, you're still stationary but ready to go.

I can get how the system may be annoying for a nation that has 4 way stop signs where you're stopped for a second or so, but to me it works fine in most other situations.

 

[ImmalovemaGTR]

As someone who lives in a city in Europe that has excellent public transport I'd like to bring in another perspective: pedestrians and residents. I really love start stop systems because idling cars add a lot to the subjective noise of a city and when people actually leave it on (which is rare unfortunately) it DOES make a difference at bigger crossroads and even in my flat, especially in Summer when I want to keep the windows open during the night.

 

[phillgt2002]

As someone who lives in a city in Europe that has excellent public transport

Rub it in some more, will ya? I'm likely in a minority of members on GTP that do not drive, so I would kill for better transit access. Even when I was driving I was using public transit.

That said, this elimination of Stop-Start is just a political move. They know it's impractical.

 

[CodeRedR51]

If you kept the clutch pedal pressed, the engine stayed on.

The only issue with that, is that sitting there with the clutch pedal pressed can do damage to the engine long term. For me, having the system on a manual would be even more annoying than an automatic. But I've already sworn off ever buying a brand new car again and won't buy anything newer than 2010 (with one exception) so probably don't have to worry about it anyway...

 

[McLaren]

Says it all, really:



The actual White House.

Made up cause of concern with a literal made up solution to it being handled.

 

[daan]

The only issue with that, is that sitting there with the clutch pedal pressed can do damage to the engine long term.

In what way?

 

[renegade an]

In what way?

The clutch release bearing pressure with the pedal down will push the crankshaft in that direction, putting strain on the crank thrust bearing.

 

[CodeRedR51]

The clutch release bearing pressure with the pedal down will push the crankshaft in that direction, putting strain on the crank thrust bearing.

This.

 

[NotThePrez]

Says it all, really:



The actual White House.

Honestly have no idea what that clip was trying to convey, or how it relates to the elimination of Start/Stop in cars.

 

[05XR8]

Honestly have no idea what that clip was trying to convey, or how it relates to the elimination of Start/Stop in cars.

Gotta make America the hottest place during global warming. Just Dumold Trump doing Dumold Trump things.

 

[daan]

This.

Better not change gear either. That'll put strain on stuff.

I would do that when I was stopped for a very short period of time. I don't think any damage would be noticeable as I've ever had to change one of them. This is just grasping at straws to remove a feature you don't like.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Better not change gear either. That'll put strain on stuff.

Gear changes are fine. Sitting at a stop light with the pedal pressed in for much longer than the occasional pedal press can lead to issues. Just saying that it's a thing. I know aftermarket companies that sell devices to even eliminate the need to press the clutch in when you start the car due to excessive wear on those bearings with low oil pressure.

 

[TheCracker]

My car (diesel auto) has stop/start and is ‘on’ by default - the ‘off’ button sits next to the start button. But there seems to be such a specific, narrow set of circumstances for it to actually activate that I barely notice it happening. If I still commuted to work, a journey that had me sat in slow stop/start traffic, it may have been a feature I didn’t mind or even quite welcomed. There are so many much more irritating new car features that you’d prefer to be off by default right now, that this move just feels transparently pushed for by oil companies.

The US won’t be happy until it reverts back to the era of the 180hp 8ltr V8 that struggles for double digit economy figures.

 

[McLaren]

Honestly have no idea what that clip was trying to convey, or how it relates to the elimination of Start/Stop in cars.

"Ugly blue hair lib women suffer in dumb Prius, hot blonde in sports car much cooler & quicker".

The 4th grade base eats it up b/c it owned non-existent women. That's a long running tendency by them; made up scenarios they won in.

 

[Famine]

Honestly have no idea what that clip was trying to convey, or how it relates to the elimination of Start/Stop in cars.

Among the... several technical errors in that video is the fact that the Prius doesn't actually have a conventional stop-start system, and certainly not a system that would be affected by this disincentivisation or one that has the deactivation (A) button shown in the clip.

But clueless dongs pandering to clueless dongs, to distract from the fact the guy in charge diddles kids and his dead-eyed legal seagull (who was AG of Florida at the peak of the activity, a lot of it focused on the kid-diddler's gaudy sex mansion in the state, and singularly failed to prosecute the co-conspirator which only happened eight months after she left office) did not exactly manage to handle the latest part of cover-up in a convincing manner, aren't exactly detail-oriented. Nor are their target clueless dongs who are lapping it up.

 

[Korvregn]

. I DON'T WANT MY GOVERNMENT TO COMMUNICATE LIKE A TWITTER PERSONALITY

Your government IS a friggin’ Twitter personality! 🙁


I really don’t mind the start/stop feature, I can see it’s purpose in citys with terrible traffic jams. I am sure it has made the air in clogged citys a little better, and cut the pollution of green house gases to some degree, however extremely small. And as previously stated you can literally just turn it off with a button if you don’t like it.

What’s more worrying is the incompetence, ignorance and total lack of basic logical thinking in said Twitter personality (and friends) ”brain” which inevitably will lead to the death of millions, destruction of habitats, extinction of animal species and a general sucky future for all of us. This will not change if we keep the start/stop feature.

I love driving fun, old, noisy and ”dirty” cars as much (or maybe even more) as the next guy, but the refusal to see climate change as a very, very serious threat to us and this planet makes me feel really bad.