EPA Eliminates Off Cycle Credit that lead to Auto Start/Stop feature

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The only issue with that, is that sitting there with the clutch pedal pressed can do damage to the engine long term. For me, having the system on a manual would be even more annoying than an automatic. But I've already sworn off ever buying a brand new car again and won't buy anything newer than 2010 (with one exception) so probably don't have to worry about it anyway...
Somebody went through DSM ownership. :lol:
 
Says it all, really:



The actual White House.

I refuse to watch it out of principle but, judging from the Prius, it's quite sad Toyota was glazing this administration only for them to get this in return :lol:

Anyways, I feel like I'm in a unique position driving one of Honda's IMA systems (CR-Z), where the start-stop is controlled completely by the electric motor. At a stop, and in neutral with the clutch engaged, the engine shuts down and it only takes shifting into first to restart. It's seamless, doesn't engage/damage the starter, and, in situations where it's very hot or cold, I can depress the clutch quickly and that will restart the engine to use with the HVAC. That's where I feel like this technology makes sense; hybrids using an electric motor to control engine start-up, not "beefed-up" starters that cost multiple thousands to replace, a figure you probably aren't saving in fuel costs anyways.

Half of the noise we're seeing here wouldn't be an issue if we had more roundabouts :grumpy:
 
I refuse to watch it out of principle but, judging from the Prius, it's quite sad Toyota was glazing this administration only for them to get this in return :lol:

Anyways, I feel like I'm in a unique position driving one of Honda's IMA systems (CR-Z), where the start-stop is controlled completely by the electric motor. At a stop, and in neutral with the clutch engaged, the engine shuts down and it only takes shifting into first to restart. It's seamless, doesn't engage/damage the starter, and, in situations where it's very hot or cold, I can depress the clutch quickly and that will restart the engine to use with the HVAC. That's where I feel like this technology makes sense; hybrids using an electric motor to control engine start-up, not "beefed-up" starters that cost multiple thousands to replace, a figure you probably aren't saving in fuel costs anyways.

Half of the noise we're seeing here wouldn't be an issue if we had more roundabouts :grumpy:
I'm spoiled to my CR-V Hybrid which has a powertrain so seamless it's often difficult to know if the engine is running or not (except when the engine is cold). I know that Toyota's system is marginally more efficient than Honda's but Honda knocked it out of the park with the driving experience & integration, IMO.
 
I'm spoiled to my CR-V Hybrid which has a powertrain so seamless it's often difficult to know if the engine is running or not (except when the engine is cold). I know that Toyota's system is marginally more efficient than Honda's but Honda knocked it out of the park with the driving experience & integration, IMO.
I think the incoming e-Power Rogue might be popular in that group. I actually prefer how it drives because the engine is not connected to the wheels, its just a generator. So the electric motors drive the car at all times making the experience much smoother. Having driven regular hybrids, the transition from electric power to ICE driving the wheels is really noticeable and sometimes a bit harsh. E-Power doesn't have that.
 
On a manual car I find it annoying because every time I stop (even for a second) it comes up with an error message saying it can't engage (because I'm not in neutral) and that stops me seeing info I might want to glance at on the mini display.

Therefore it's part of the 'pre flight checks' of turning off the auto start stop and the overly enthusiastic collision detection that seems to be petrified of red cars.

And as mentioned already even when I tried to use the auto start stop the fuel savings it was quoting were miniscule. Tens of millilitres a journey at absolute best.
 
I think the incoming e-Power Rogue might be popular in that group. I actually prefer how it drives because the engine is not connected to the wheels, its just a generator. So the electric motors drive the car at all times making the experience much smoother. Having driven regular hybrids, the transition from electric power to ICE driving the wheels is really noticeable and sometimes a bit harsh. E-Power doesn't have that.
That's exactly why I prefer Honda's system to Toyotas. The Honda's ICE can theoretically drive the wheels in some conditions, but it's either infrequent enough or invisible enough that I can't detect it.
 
Others have mentioned that this action and the politics are way more complicated than just stop/start. That said, the adoption of stop/start wasn't just a regulatory side effect but also a symptom of a much larger problem, particularly in American society. It was always a stupid bandaid to the very simple problem of American drivers spending half their time...stopped.

If the problem is increased inefficiency due to stoppages, then how about we solve the actual problem by not stopping cars all the time?

60th_Landscape_Sketch-London-Road-MNDot.jpg


What a crazy idea, huh? Cars actually using their wheels. For as car-centric as American society is, cars spend an awful lot of time not going anywhere. If our entire infrastructure wasn't stupid and inefficient we might not need to focus on ridiculous bandaid technologies which aren't an honest attempt to increase efficiency but instead to satisfy wonky regulations.
 
I've never driven a non hybrid car with start stop to know how it feels. But on my Lexus Hybrid I can barely feel it or hear it. It seems the colder the weather is the more aggressive or harsher it is but it's still not much of a disturbance.
 
Others have mentioned that this action and the politics are way more complicated than just stop/start. That said, the adoption of stop/start wasn't just a regulatory side effect but also a symptom of a much larger problem, particularly in American society. It was always a stupid bandaid to the very simple problem of American drivers spending half their time...stopped.

If the problem is increased inefficiency due to stoppages, then how about we solve the actual problem by not stopping cars all the time?

60th_Landscape_Sketch-London-Road-MNDot.jpg


What a crazy idea, huh? Cars actually using their wheels. For as car-centric as American society is, cars spend an awful lot of time not going anywhere. If our entire infrastructure wasn't stupid and inefficient we might not need to focus on ridiculous bandaid technologies which aren't an honest attempt to increase efficiency but instead to satisfy wonky regulations.
The issue is that the vast bulk of the American road system was designed in the 1950's with absolutely no thought towards scaling up as the amount of cars increased exponentially over a couple decades, so not only are you replacing the roads but also the buildings near intersections and the power and water infrastucture as well. Throw in several months to a year+ worth of traffic disruptions, cost overruns as construction companies drag their feet, economic impacts on businesses around the immediate area, the unwillingness of local politicians to risk their jobs by proposing a tax hike to pay for the work among many other things, and it's no surprise that it was quicker and easier to push the problem onto the carmakers instead.

I don't disagree that there needs to be a big rethink of how roads work in this country, but we also don't live in SimCity 2000 where you can just pause and redesign an entire intersection with no real impact. From a practical and financial standpoint it's not going to happen in any realistic timeframe unless you get a good amount of federal intervention, and short of renaming roundabouts to "American revolutions" and putting a giant gold statue of Trump's head in the middle of each one, good luck with that.
 
The issue is that the vast bulk of the American road system was designed in the 1950's with absolutely no thought towards scaling up as the amount of cars increased exponentially over a couple decades, so not only are you replacing the roads but also the buildings near intersections and the power and water infrastucture as well. Throw in several months to a year+ worth of traffic disruptions, cost overruns as construction companies drag their feet, economic impacts on businesses around the immediate area, the unwillingness of local politicians to risk their jobs by proposing a tax hike to pay for the work among many other things, and it's no surprise that it was quicker and easier to push the problem onto the carmakers instead.

I don't disagree that there needs to be a big rethink of how roads work in this country, but we also don't live in SimCity 2000 where you can just pause and redesign an entire intersection with no real impact. From a practical and financial standpoint it's not going to happen in any realistic timeframe unless you get a good amount of federal intervention, and short of renaming roundabouts to "American revolutions" and putting a giant gold statue of Trump's head in the middle of each one, good luck with that.
That type of thinking, not taking the initiative to solve problems, is exactly why we're stuck stuck with that 1950s infrastructure. Older generations who only know an older way of doing things is the primary reason these changes aren't happening. You bring up many potential issues, but the benefits of changing a single intersection amount to fewer accidents and injuries, lower insurance costs, calmer and quiter traffic, lower or completely eliminated electricity usage, etc. Immediate impacts should be a minor consideration compared to long-term benefits. Suburbanites created their monster and it needs to be solved.

And the ultimate example of a car-centric American suburb revamping its road and pedestrian network already exists anyway. They did exactly what you suggest is difficult. Have you ever visited Carmel, Indiana? I'd suggest you go visit in a car and see the spectacle of calm traffic, reasonable speeds, and hudreds of roundabouts, pedestrian ways, and bike paths.
 
That type of thinking, not taking the initiative to solve problems, is exactly why we're stuck stuck with that 1950s infrastructure. Older generations who only know an older way of doing things is the primary reason these changes aren't happening. You bring up many potential issues, but the benefits of changing a single intersection amount to fewer accidents and injuries, lower insurance costs, calmer and quiter traffic, lower or completely eliminated electricity usage, etc. Immediate impacts should be a minor consideration compared to long-term benefits. Suburbanites created their monster and it needs to be solved.

And the ultimate example of a car-centric American suburb revamping its road and pedestrian network already exists anyway. They did exactly what you suggest is difficult. Have you ever visited Carmel, Indiana? I'd suggest you go visit in a car and see the spectacle of calm traffic, reasonable speeds, and hudreds of roundabouts, pedestrian ways, and bike paths.
It takes time, but it's happening. Every new infrastructure development in the Bay Area* seems to prioritize multi-modal transport and we're getting more and more traffic circles in the less dense areas. Berkeley is doing them via crowdfunding, although more as a traffic calming measure in the residential neighborhoods rather than big intersection projects. The point is that I think American civil engineers and planners now understand the benefits and want to do them, rather than dismissing them as some outlandish European psy-ops like they did 25 years ago.

*I remember a ton of them around Ann Arbor Michigan and I've even read north Texas is planning to build a lot, particularly Fort Worth.
 
I'm spoiled to my CR-V Hybrid which has a powertrain so seamless it's often difficult to know if the engine is running or not (except when the engine is cold). I know that Toyota's system is marginally more efficient than Honda's but Honda knocked it out of the park with the driving experience & integration, IMO.
Since it was balls cold out when I bought the new Tacoma, the hybrid system in it wasn't utilized to its fullest extent but now that it's warming up, it's starting to come alive more. When up to temp and coasting to a stoplight, around 15MHP the gas engine shuts off and, so far at least, remains off until I step on the gas pedal. It remains to be seen if that continues when things like the AC are running this summer. The electric motor in the Tacoma is there to increase horsepower and torque, not for gas mileage... because truck... but the electric starts the vehicle moving and withing a half second, the gas engine has already started and off you go. It is surprisingly smooth and so far I have zero complaints about it.
 
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