FFB Suggestion

2,255
United States
Michigan
FuriousDemon
Hey guys,

Just one suggestion I wanted to make as far as FFB goes.
Other than adjusting the FFB strength to 100% in the controller menu, unless it's not already set to that, there's something I usually do in the car setup screen (and it's only accessible there) that makes FFB a bit better for my taste. This was actually suggested by WMD member bmanic, so not my original invention.

Here's how my screen looks for most cars. You can give it a try youself and see how you like it.

Cheers!
 

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Hey guys,

Just one suggestion I wanted to make as far as FFB goes.
Other than adjusting the FFB strength to 100% in the controller menu, unless it's not already set to that, there's something I usually do in the car setup screen (and it's only accessible there) that makes FFB a bit better for my taste. This was actually suggested by WMD member bmanic, so not my original invention.

Here's how my screen looks for most cars. You can give it a try youself and see how you like it.

Cheers!

Thanks for this. Along with the Visual configuration for smoothest consistent game play on my system, this will be one of the first things I figure out before I even start any serious attempts at racing. Tune the game, then tune the driver, then tune the car. :)
 
Hey guys,

Just one suggestion I wanted to make as far as FFB goes.
Other than adjusting the FFB strength to 100% in the controller menu, unless it's not already set to that, there's something I usually do in the car setup screen (and it's only accessible there) that makes FFB a bit better for my taste. This was actually suggested by WMD member bmanic, so not my original invention.

Here's how my screen looks for most cars. You can give it a try youself and see how you like it.

Cheers!

So you have to adjust this for every car in the setup screen? No possibility to get the same results with tweaking some sliders in the general FFB menu?
 
Hey guys,

Just one suggestion I wanted to make as far as FFB goes.
Other than adjusting the FFB strength to 100% in the controller menu, unless it's not already set to that, there's something I usually do in the car setup screen (and it's only accessible there) that makes FFB a bit better for my taste. This was actually suggested by WMD member bmanic, so not my original invention.

Here's how my screen looks for most cars. You can give it a try youself and see how you like it.

Cheers!

Is this a good set up for all wheels and all versions? For example would this be a good set up on PS4 using the Thrustmaster T300?
 
I had a super quick go tonight, stock game FFB settings, and on my CSW v2, the same settings I use in Assetto Corsa. I really don't like the feedback as it is currently and I have to figure it out. I'm not getting anything through the wheel if I crash for instance, something that should definitely have an effect. Also, on violent curbs, nothing. In AC it would almost rip the wheel out of my hands. Oversteer, understeer, all lacking. There must be some good settings somewhere out there... @LogiForce HELP!! :)
 
I had a super quick go tonight, stock game FFB settings, and on my CSW v2, the same settings I use in Assetto Corsa. I really don't like the feedback as it is currently and I have to figure it out. I'm not getting anything through the wheel if I crash for instance, something that should definitely have an effect. Also, on violent curbs, nothing. In AC it would almost rip the wheel out of my hands. Oversteer, understeer, all lacking. There must be some good settings somewhere out there... @LogiForce HELP!! :)

I use the defaults but make sure to set the following:

Make sure the FFB strength slider in game is at 100%
The CSWv2 defaults but with SPR-Off and DPR-Off.


How much feedback you get through the wheel on curbs depends on a per car basis. The steering and suspension geometry as well as wheel alignment and tyre pressure must all have such an impact on the tyre's instability that it's easily affected by a curb. In other words the tyre must be able to easily push on the tie-rods.

- Soft tyres = lots of dampening of feedback
- Camber affects contact patch size and grip. If the tyre has grip it won't be easily upset even on a sawtooth curb
- Caster changes the angle of the Spindle/Tie-rod arm that is on the spindle. So it also affects the FFB.

There is a value in the per car FFB settings (under vehicle setup) that's called "Spindle Arm Angle". Playing around with that value can make a difference in how the FFB feels and reacts.



I am sure you are wondering... "but dude... when you go over a big sawtooth curb in real life you can definitely feel it through the wheel".
Yes, you can feel it through the wheel but where does it come from? When the tyres rise and fall onto and off of the curbs it produces a verticle impact. This impact is caught and dampened by your... tyres, springs and dampers.
However, the energy of the shock isn't being removed. The energy travels through the strut tower (which you can see under the hood or bonnet of the car) where the top of the shocks are mounted. It than goes through the metal of your entire chassis as a huge vibration.
Your seat is mounted to the floor pan, but your steering wheel is actually secured to the car's firewall. Often near your master brake cylinder. So the vibrations also go through that firewall as it's part of the chassis and reach up to your steering wheel.

Now if you ever drive on a stone road or even an off-road surface try to grab your wheel with one hand and your dash (also secured to the firewall) with the other hand. Now if you feel the vibrations same vibrations through the dash and your wheel, and as a third your seat, than those are vibrations that act upon the car vertically. It is not the energy that moves the wheels and pushes on the tie-rods which move the steering rack.


Back to pCARS. The FFB is actually simulating the steering rack movement by calculating the spindle's movement which is influenced by tyre physics.
My advice, if you really wish to feel the curbs in a proper manner, is that you invest in Simvibe and at least one Buttkicker tactile speaker (best 4 for chassis mode, giving you the vibration energy from all 4 points/struts of the car). The vibrations will than go through your desk, chair or best... rig. It will than travel in the same manner as it would in a real car, since your rig is your chassis.
Also if you're on console audio tactile is the only other option you have.


I am sure you might wonder why I give this advice and haven't opted at WMD during development to give us more 'curb feel'. This is due to how the energy travels in a car. Since the vibrations don't upset the steering movement (left/right), as explained earlier. It would be wrong to simulate something that it shouldn't be doing.

rack_pinion.JPG


You see, the FFB signal is acting in exchange for the rack in the steering housing of a real car. The FFB motor actually acts as the pinion at the end of the steering shaft (to which your steering wheel is bolted) and is instructed to turn clockwise or anti-clockwise to move the steering wheel left or right.
The position sensor in your FFB wheel is sending back a signal to the physics engine that the pinion movement is or has been executed and the physics engine respositions the tyres in real time and recalculates things all over again.

Now if you add in unnecessary effects to the FFB signal, it also affects the car's phyics as it changes the steering angle of the car. In other words the car is being steered by the FFB, but the added effects would influence the angle of the tyres as well. This than causes the car to change direction, which upsets balance (even if very tiny) and so on.


Anyway, that's just my 2 cents. I do realize people have different wishes though, but I am a purist in this regard. So I always stuck to a balanced Fx Fy Fz and Mz force feedback settings in the game. You can get what you want via FFB, but it requires a bit of tinkering.
A FFB tweaking manual should be in the works, but I am not sure if it's 100% complete yet.


That said, this is from the wiki put together by the community: http://en.pcars.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Physics#I_can.E2.80.99t_feel_the_kerbs.3F

"I can’t feel the kerbs?
The kerbs are physically modelled, so if the kerb is rather flat in real life you won't feel much in the FFB."



Sorry, I know you might have wanted just settings but I felt that I should be complete so others learn as well. :)
 
I use the defaults but make sure to set the following:

Make sure the FFB strength slider in game is at 100%
The CSWv2 defaults but with SPR-Off and DPR-Off.


How much feedback you get through the wheel on curbs depends on a per car basis. The steering and suspension geometry as well as wheel alignment and tyre pressure must all have such an impact on the tyre's instability that it's easily affected by a curb. In other words the tyre must be able to easily push on the tie-rods.

- Soft tyres = lots of dampening of feedback
- Camber affects contact patch size and grip. If the tyre has grip it won't be easily upset even on a sawtooth curb
- Caster changes the angle of the Spindle/Tie-rod arm that is on the spindle. So it also affects the FFB.

There is a value in the per car FFB settings (under vehicle setup) that's called "Spindle Arm Angle". Playing around with that value can make a difference in how the FFB feels and reacts.



I am sure you are wondering... "but dude... when you go over a big sawtooth curb in real life you can definitely feel it through the wheel".
Yes, you can feel it through the wheel but where does it come from? When the tyres rise and fall onto and off of the curbs it produces a verticle impact. This impact is caught and dampened by your... tyres, springs and dampers.
However, the energy of the shock isn't being removed. The energy travels through the strut tower (which you can see under the hood or bonnet of the car) where the top of the shocks are mounted. It than goes through the metal of your entire chassis as a huge vibration.
Your seat is mounted to the floor pan, but your steering wheel is actually secured to the car's firewall. Often near your master brake cylinder. So the vibrations also go through that firewall as it's part of the chassis and reach up to your steering wheel.

Now if you ever drive on a stone road or even an off-road surface try to grab your wheel with one hand and your dash (also secured to the firewall) with the other hand. Now if you feel the vibrations same vibrations through the dash and your wheel, and as a third your seat, than those are vibrations that act upon the car vertically. It is not the energy that moves the wheels and pushes on the tie-rods which move the steering rack.


Back to pCARS. The FFB is actually simulating the steering rack movement by calculating the spindle's movement which is influenced by tyre physics.
My advice, if you really wish to feel the curbs in a proper manner, is that you invest in Simvibe and at least one Buttkicker tactile speaker (best 4 for chassis mode, giving you the vibration energy from all 4 points/struts of the car). The vibrations will than go through your desk, chair or best... rig. It will than travel in the same manner as it would in a real car, since your rig is your chassis.
Also if you're on console audio tactile is the only other option you have.


I am sure you might wonder why I give this advice and haven't opted at WMD during development to give us more 'curb feel'. This is due to how the energy travels in a car. Since the vibrations don't upset the steering movement (left/right), as explained earlier. It would be wrong to simulate something that it shouldn't be doing.

rack_pinion.JPG


You see, the FFB signal is acting in exchange for the rack in the steering housing of a real car. The FFB motor actually acts as the pinion at the end of the steering shaft (to which your steering wheel is bolted) and is instructed to turn clockwise or anti-clockwise to move the steering wheel left or right.
The position sensor in your FFB wheel is sending back a signal to the physics engine that the pinion movement is or has been executed and the physics engine respositions the tyres in real time and recalculates things all over again.

Now if you add in unnecessary effects to the FFB signal, it also affects the car's phyics as it changes the steering angle of the car. In other words the car is being steered by the FFB, but the added effects would influence the angle of the tyres as well. This than causes the car to change direction, which upsets balance (even if very tiny) and so on.


Anyway, that's just my 2 cents. I do realize people have different wishes though, but I am a purist in this regard. So I always stuck to a balanced Fx Fy Fz and Mz force feedback settings in the game. You can get what you want via FFB, but it requires a bit of tinkering.
A FFB tweaking manual should be in the works, but I am not sure if it's 100% complete yet.


That said, this is from the wiki put together by the community: http://en.pcars.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Physics#I_can.E2.80.99t_feel_the_kerbs.3F

"I can’t feel the kerbs?
The kerbs are physically modelled, so if the kerb is rather flat in real life you won't feel much in the FFB."



Sorry, I know you might have wanted just settings but I felt that I should be complete so others learn as well. :)

Well said has there been talk about an official game guide like "Prima " with alot of detail on ffb,fov,set ups ,etc ?
If would be alot of work but their is a lot a talent SMS and WMD that could pull this off with nice glossy pics
 
I use the defaults but make sure to set the following:

Make sure the FFB strength slider in game is at 100%
The CSWv2 defaults but with SPR-Off and DPR-off.

What are SPR and DPR and what changes have you made yourself, to the FFB (and what wheel)?

I'm using a T500RS myself, and I have to admit that I have to get used to the FFB. I've turned up "Force Feedback" to 100 in "configuration" under "controls", which seemed to help, but is there anything else I should change to get more for feeling for what the car is doing (seems a little dead still), or is this the realistic way to have it?
 
What are SPR and DPR and what changes have you made yourself, to the FFB (and what wheel)?

I'm using a T500RS myself, and I have to admit that I have to get used to the FFB. I've turned up "Force Feedback" to 100 in "configuration" under "controls", which seemed to help, but is there anything else I should change to get more for feeling for what the car is doing (seems a little dead still), or is this the realistic way to have it?
Look at my post at the top of the page. I attached a screenshot for you to try. This is available in garage when you go into the car tuning screen. Give it a try, should help you get more feeling out of the FFB
 
Thanks @LogiForce I'll have a better go tonight - I do have Simvibe already although I didn't use it last night as I was only able to have a real quick go so didn't set PCars up in Sim Commander.

I understand the decisions made in regards to feeling through the wheel but honesty I still feel like it was lacking so I'll try some other car specific settings tonight and post some more feedback here with any settings I change.

Honestly though, last night I crashed in to a wall at an angle which would have pushed my wheels and my FFB did nothing. In real life you take your hands off the wheel in a situation for fear of havings your wrists snapped..
 
Thanks @LogiForce I'll have a better go tonight - I do have Simvibe already although I didn't use it last night as I was only able to have a real quick go so didn't set PCars up in Sim Commander.

I understand the decisions made in regards to feeling through the wheel but honesty I still feel like it was lacking so I'll try some other car specific settings tonight and post some more feedback here with any settings I change.

Honestly though, last night I crashed in to a wall at an angle which would have pushed my wheels and my FFB did nothing. In real life you take your hands off the wheel in a situation for fear of havings your wrists snapped..

Also regards to impacts. Could it be you still had centering spring enabled on your wheel? Cause that seems to still work when driving. So if it clamps the wheel to center you'd hardly feel anything.


More info regards to settings and so on will be available soon on the official forum, which just launched. There are also more WMD members there ready to help you. :)

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/
 
What are SPR and DPR and what changes have you made yourself, to the FFB (and what wheel)?

I'm using a T500RS myself, and I have to admit that I have to get used to the FFB. I've turned up "Force Feedback" to 100 in "configuration" under "controls", which seemed to help, but is there anything else I should change to get more for feeling for what the car is doing (seems a little dead still), or is this the realistic way to have it?

Those are Fanatec terms for the Tuning Menu's (on their wheels) settings. Which are the same settings as in the drivers of other brands.

SPR = Centering Spring
DPR = Damper

Also those were my own settings that I use at the moment. I use the FFB defaults that are in place with those settings.


For the T500 I do the following.

Rotation lock = 1080 degrees
Global Strength = 100%
Centering Spring = 0%
Damper = 0%

In the game I set FFB Strength to 60%



As said above. More info from fellow WMD members will be made available on the official forum: http://forum.projectcarsgame.com

Edit:
I assumed you are on PC?
 
Those are Fanatec terms for the Tuning Menu's (on their wheels) settings. Which are the same settings as in the drivers of other brands.

SPR = Centering Spring
DPR = Damper

Also those were my own settings that I use at the moment. I use the FFB defaults that are in place with those settings.


For the T500 I do the following.

Rotation lock = 1080 degrees
Global Strength = 100%
Centering Spring = 0%
Damper = 0%

In the game I set FFB Strength to 60%



As said above. More info from fellow WMD members will be made available on the official forum: http://forum.projectcarsgame.com

Edit:
I assumed you are on PC?
Thanks!
I'm actually on PS4, so I assume settings made in the driver software on pc won't have an effect (even though I believe I have this exact settings per default) on PS4.
 
Thanks!
I'm actually on PS4, so I assume settings made in the driver software on pc won't have an effect (even though I believe I have this exact settings per default) on PS4.

Assumed correctly. Anything done on PC won't affect the wheel operation on a console.

Now it kinda sucks not having a PS4 (or XB1), since I can't help you guys out with specifics or even know if the feel is different or not.

Hopefully someone on the official forum with a PS4 copy and T500 can help you out a bit further. :)
 
Also regards to impacts. Could it be you still had centering spring enabled on your wheel? Cause that seems to still work when driving. So if it clamps the wheel to center you'd hardly feel anything.


More info regards to settings and so on will be available soon on the official forum, which just launched. There are also more WMD members there ready to help you. :)

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/
I have the centering spring disabled in my CSW settings. I'll have a bit of a play tonight
 
T300 on PS4

When driving in a straight line my wheel seems to get very light and the ffb goes away. This causes the car to wander slightly (not by much but enough to hit another car if we were side by side). Is the ffb dead zone the setting I'm looking for to help add some resistance while driving straight so that I can place the car where I want it?
 
T300 on PS4

When driving in a straight line my wheel seems to get very light and the ffb goes away. This causes the car to wander slightly (not by much but enough to hit another car if we were side by side). Is the ffb dead zone the setting I'm looking for to help add some resistance while driving straight so that I can place the car where I want it?
weird issue you have... i think i lowered the setting of ffb from 26 to 18 and i got really better control and feeling.

But certainly the options are a confused unexplained mess...
 
weird issue you have... i think i lowered the setting of ffb from 26 to 18 and i got really better control and feeling.

But certainly the options are a confused unexplained mess...
Yea the options are for the better just a little overwhelming right now. There is supposed to be a big FFB that will go on the official forums in the coming days though.
 
Guys when adjusting things like the Master Scale, do keep in mind that you might get a clipping FFB signal. Which is something you can see when you activate the telemetry HUD by cycling through the hud options with the D-pad on your controller (wheel or gamepad).

The FFB Strength slider in the Controller Setup menu is something that's post the FFB signal processing. So that won't affect the overal nature of the FFB signal, but you can still clip the FFB motor by driving it to hard with that FFB Strength slider.
 
This picture should give you an idea of what the settings mean in the car FFB setup screen, if you understand a bit of physics.

image047.jpg

Nice picture. I hope it helps people a bit.

People should just keep in mind that wheel weight (i.e. too much strength/torque) can deminish the feedback you get from the car. An an ideal situation you should be able to feel the slip angle of the car at all times.

As an example:
 
Does anyone know about the Formula A ffb? When I turn past 45 degrees while the front wheels are loaded the ffb just goes away and then comes back once the wheel are straight. It's not like the front end is washing out because the car stays on the same turning arc. It's with the default setup in time trail mode.
 
Does anyone know about the Formula A ffb? When I turn past 45 degrees while the front wheels are loaded the ffb just goes away and then comes back once the wheel are straight. It's not like the front end is washing out because the car stays on the same turning arc. It's with the default setup in time trail mode.

What you're feeling is the Slip Curve or Slip Angle, and the amount of grip (and thus cornering force/FFB weight) it generates.

4943745_orig.png


 
What you're feeling is the Slip Curve or Slip Angle, and the amount of grip (and thus cornering force/FFB weight) it generates.

4943745_orig.png



So when I get the light feeling I've gone past the max cornering force and at this point I'm trying to overdrive the car right?
 
So when I get the light feeling I've gone past the max cornering force and at this point I'm trying to overdrive the car right?

Indeed. You should see the car starting to understeer while the tyres start to scrub as they struggle for grip.
In the end your tyres will have increased wear as well as increased heat buildup, which if they overheat can lead to griploss.
 
Indeed. You should see the car starting to understeer while the tyres start to scrub as they struggle for grip.
In the end your tyres will have increased wear as well as increased heat buildup, which if they overheat can lead to griploss.
It makes more and more sense now. That understeer usually ends up turning into snap oversteer which isn't fun in the FA.
 
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