FIA considering closed cockpit F1 in the future?

[GTPorsche]

That design will stop objects from the direct front, but what if something manages to get through the gaps? The design is useless in that respect.

 

[TenEightyOne]

That design will stop objects from the direct front, but what if something manages to get through the gaps? The design is useless in that respect.

I could imagine small objects that were at a "safe" angle actually being deflected into visor range by that.

 

[AJ]

Please take the time to read the actual article, don't just take the drawing at face value.

 

[GTPorsche]

I had read the article. I was making an observation on that Mercedes concept.

Short of designing a full canopy from aerospace polycarbonates, there's nothing that's going to eliminate objects hitting the driver's head. Those same polycarbonates will also not obscure any view for the driver.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Please take the time to read the actual article, don't just take the drawing at face value.

Yes, I read it. I still think the same thing. It's called disagreeing.

 

[TRGTspecialist]

So the first public testing of a "halo" design has been done.

Putting the total ugliness of it to one side - you know, if it's inevitible that some driver protection system is brought into the sport someday, I really hope they give it a lot of thought and very thorough testing, and don't attempt in any way to rush something through. That said I can't say I'm terribly encouraged by this quote, and hope I'm just misinterpreting his meaning:

We have tried to accelerate this project in the last 12 months with an aim to have something that we can practically apply on F1 cars for 2017," FIA safety director Laurent Mekies said in the governing body's official Auto publication.

Reading back through this thread I see there's a lot of "the march of safety musn't be allowed to stop" type comments. It's a fine sentiment - I probably agree with it - but it does assume that whatever you're trying to introduce actually does make things safer. It would be nice to know that a halo design doesn't just replace the freak event of a large object hitting the driver's head, with the freak event of a fatal crash caused by reduced driver visibility, for instance..........

 

[GTPorsche]

If that's the kind of design they go with, they better add something to it to prevent anything going through the gaps.

 

[AudiMan2011]

Really not liking that design. That thick Y-section looks like it'll obscure vision, especially at the start when the lights are about to go out. It's also right in the line of sight for looking forward too.

 

[GTPorsche]

Really not liking that design. That thick Y-section looks like it'll obscure vision, especially at the start when the lights are about to go out. It's also right in the line of sight for looking forward too.

All of that obscuring vision talk has no footing. That's a shot from a camera mounted on the top of the helmet. Driver vision looks to be pretty good.

 

[Liquid]

All of that obscuring vision talk has no footing. That's a shot from a camera mounted on the top of the helmet. Driver vision looks to be pretty good.

I'm not as convicned yet. That's going around a corner, where where you're looking at, and towards, is away from the obstructive centre. I'd like to see what the driver's view is when the track is in a straight line and the vanishing point is obscured by the centre column.

 

[ClydeYellow]

All of that obscuring vision talk has no footing. That's a shot from a camera mounted on the top of the helmet. Driver vision looks to be pretty good.

Raikkonen seems to be just fine with it. I'd trust him over any internet commenter on the matter of visibility.

 

[DK]

Don't F1 drivers usually listen to a set of beeps as the start lights go out, too?

 

[Hun200kmh]

I don't doubt this sort of device will protect a driver's head from big parts (tyres, body panels) from other cars or from injury if their car goes "under" another in an accident, under a crane, like it happened with Bianchi, or even going under armco or its tyres protection ... whatever.

But it won't save anyone from little metal parts (like in Massa's case) or scattered debris or stones.

I understand a full canopy (fighter jet style) may cause problems and concerns about driver extraction from a crashed car, but couldn't an open canopy (looking like a windscreen) be made to be strong enough for what's needed and still allow the driver to get out of the car as easily as they can do now?

 

[Grand Prix]

I don't doubt this sort of device will protect a driver's head from big parts (tyres, body panels) from other cars or from injury if their car goes "under" another in an accident, under a crane, like it happened with Bianchi, or even going under armco or its tyres protection ... whatever.

But it won't save anyone from little metal parts (like in Massa's case) or scattered debris or stones.

I understand a full canopy (fighter jet style) may cause problems and concerns about driver extraction from a crashed car, but couldn't an open canopy (looking like a windscreen) be made to be strong enough for what's needed and still allow the driver to get out of the car as easily as they can do now?

Something like this with a stronger screen and frame?

Think I would prefer that too.

 

[shoemaker]

I hope to god they come up with something better looking than that halo.

 

[Robin]

I can't for the life of me understand why they can't do the halo without the middle support stem, there are easily ways to make a free standing one strong enough.

 

[thestig1030]

Onboard with Halo:

 

[twitcher]

I'm not at all a fan of the halo, but I'll trust Kimi for now as far as whether or not he can see.

So far Kimi and Seb have done a lap each with it as far as I know? Does anyone know whether or not they had a chance to follow another car on either of their laps?

Any chance it could cause issues while following another car?

 

[Samus]

To me the reason it looks so bad is because it looks exactly as what it is, an extra piece bolted onto a car as an afterthought. It doesn't look part of the car, it doesn't blend in at all. If or when they do implement something it needs to be integrated into the chassis design IMO, for both strength and aesthetic reasons.

 

[TheElbows]

My issue is that you're adding a thin (I'd imagine it's strong) piece around the driver. I'd imagine it will make it slower to exit the car, and you're putting something breakable right around the driver and his head. What happens if this snaps when the car rolls over? What if it prevents a driver from getting out of the car on time if it catches fire?

Just doesn't look smartly designed. I hope there will be a quick detach option and that it's strong enough as a roll-hoop.

 

[Northstar]

My issue is that you're adding a thin (I'd imagine it's strong) piece around the driver. I'd imagine it will make it slower to exit the car, and you're putting something breakable right around the driver and his head. What happens if this snaps when the car rolls over? What if it prevents a driver from getting out of the car on time if it catches fire?

Just doesn't look smartly designed. I hope there will be a quick detach option and that it's strong enough as a roll-hoop.

It's actually pretty wide so I doubt it will hinder extraction much. The final version will also be on a hinge apparently so that should help as well.

I'm also guessing if something can break that the shards of broken halo are the least of worries.

 

[super_gt]

It will improve safety,but I really do not like it.

rough sketch

 

[Com Fox]

I honestly like the look of the "halo", though it must be really terrible in a driver's point of view.

 

[Samus]

I know some "purists" absolutely do but I honestly wouldn't mind F1 going closed cockpit, as long as it still kept the same general shape and open wheels. The MP4-X design showed how smoothly one might be integrated into the chassis design, something that this Halo doesn't do in the slightest.

Obviously the main technological hurdle is weight, from the canopy itself and the inevitable required cooling system. Then on course whenever this canopy system is brought up someone is usually right there with "But what if it ends upside down on fire" but I really don't see it being an issue, they could surely design it with safety release systems in place.

The last issue would be driving in rain, a wiper blade in F1 would certainly take some getting used to but I believe there are technologies being developed that would negate them, so who knows.

I think it's definitely the future. I can't see F1 being like it is now in 2030.

 

[Nessy]

Another variable to consider is, that the driver can move their head a little. Just saying.

(edit)

My main issue with closed cockpits in F1, is extraction.

 

[TenEightyOne]

My main issue with closed cockpits in F1, is extraction.

Statistically the number of incidents where a driver might have been trapped by a canopy (fire, inversion etc) are far outweighed by the number of incidents where debris/cars have made it into the head enclosure.

My instinctive view remains that of the purist; open cockpits are The Formula. That said, I can see F1 going to closed cockpits so... yeah, just make them look cool

 

[AudiMan2011]

I know some "purists" absolutely do but I honestly wouldn't mind F1 going closed cockpit, as long as it still kept the same general shape and open wheels. The MP4-X design showed how smoothly one might be integrated into the chassis design, something that this Halo doesn't do in the slightest.

Obviously the main technological hurdle is weight, from the canopy itself and the inevitable required cooling system. Then on course whenever this canopy system is brought up someone is usually right there with "But what if it ends upside down on fire" but I really don't see it being an issue, they could surely design it with safety release systems in place.

The last issue would be driving in rain, a wiper blade in F1 would certainly take some getting used to but I believe there are technologies being developed that would negate them, so who knows.

I think it's definitely the future. I can't see F1 being like it is now in 2030.

The Red Bull X cars are also a pretty good example.

 

[TRGTspecialist]

I know some "purists" absolutely do but I honestly wouldn't mind F1 going closed cockpit, as long as it still kept the same general shape and open wheels.

I wouldn't mind closed cockpits either - in fact the fully closed canopies a la X2010/11 and MP4-X look pretty cool and futuristic, and I think would be very good image-wise for F1 - but if a solution is to be brought in it needs to be demonstratably safer, ie. it descreases the chances of being killed by object hitting helmet by x, without increasing the chances of being killed by some other event by y > x. And this can't be easy to do when the problem in question is such a rare occurrence (which @Famine did a predictably good job of explaining earlier in the thread).

I agree the "purism because....purism" crowd are a bit nonsensical given how much the sport has evolved over time, but I think the "we must do something and do it now!" crowd (not saying you're part of that) are worse - the former will do nothing and guarantee nothing will change, but the latter could run the risk of making things worse if a solution is rushed through. That's probably unlikely, but when the problem deals with such low numbers of deaths/injuries, I think you do have to be careful and considered.

 

[Samus]

Yeah i'm totally opposite to the "F1 needs something now", at least if the result is an afterthought like the halo. They need to take their time and come up with an integrated solution that ticks all the boxes and yes for me, aesthetics has to be one of those boxes. Of course we don't want to see injuries or driver deaths but at the same time a large part of the appeal to F1 is the visuals, how the cars look. You can't just ignore that, IMO.

 

[Nessy]

The halo design may not be aesthetically pleasing to many (it seems), but since when has the design of an F1 car been based on aesthetics? It's always mostly been function/performance first, looks second (imo).

The halo may well look like an afterthought but lets face it, most of the aero appendages do too. I'm no F1 purist, so I'm not entirely against closed cockpits, I just think that solution may have it's own set of problems too.