FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

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^ That's pretty much what I've been saying for a while now. The "truth" lies somewhere in between FM3 and GT5. That's why I don't want people to use GT5 as the yard stick to measure FM4 by.
 
I think everyone tends to focus on just one thing, physics. No one talks about the fact that GT5 has some of the most accurately modeled tracks out there. iRacing is the only game that is better. NFS and FM absolutely butcher their real world tracks. In particular The Ring. Its not bad on all tracks but when its bad you really notice. What is the point of "real" physics if they aren't put in a real environment? Its like porting a karting simulator into Mario Kart levels.

I would also argue that GT5 is one of the first driving games to give almost every car a unique feel. A perfect example is the F430 and the 430 Scuderia. In GT5 they drive and feel totally different. The same cannot be said in FM. Even more perfect is the 458 Italia and the MP4-12C. When I watched the episode of Fifth Gear and Top Gear the compared the two cares it was like my mind was being read.
 
HBK
I've never driven on a race track, but having pushed my little car a number of times on public roads, I can safely say that it actually feels very different from driving a similar little car in GT5. It also feels very different from driving a similar car in Forza 3, for that matter. I would say that overall the real experience would be a mix of the "precision" and "feedback" of Forza 3 and the "bumpiness" and "exigency" of GT5.
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I have extensive track experience in several different cars. I can safely say that this statement is true, neither game is right. They're both about the same distance from reality, but in different ways. Hopefully FM4 will edge itself closer to reality with the new suspension and tire models. One area I really hope it improves on is track surfaces; the tracks in FM3 are really smooth, so hopefully they get bumpier in FM4.
The only sad thing is that even if it does, people will still claim that GT5 is better because for a lot of people, they think that GT5 is 'real' and anything that feels different is worse. I swear, some people would claim that iRacing and NetKar are less 'real' than GT5 just because they're different. People need to wake up and realize that GT5 is not the end-all of physics modeling, it's just one way of doing it.


paskowitz
I think everyone tends to focus on just one thing, physics. No one talks about the fact that GT5 has some of the most accurately modeled tracks out there. iRacing is the only game that is better. NFS and FM absolutely butcher their real world tracks. In particular The Ring. Its not bad on all tracks but when its bad you really notice. What is the point of "real" physics if they aren't put in a real environment? Its like porting a karting simulator into Mario Kart levels.
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Correction: GT5 has the most accurately modeled Nurburgring Nordschleife in any console sim. Their other tracks are really no more impressive than FM3 or Shift 2 when taken as a package. Fuji is too wide, Laguna Seca is terrible, etc. True, in FM3 the tracks are all too smooth, but as far as accuracy to layout, width, landmarks, and whatnot they're fairly similar.
The Nordschleife in GT5 is much better, but that's about it. Plus, there's tracks in GT5 whose graphics are fairly terrible, and need I mention the Cape Ring for "mario kart" tracks? Plus, look at Cote de Azure, that's nowhere close to the real Monaco GP track.
 
I have always felt each car in GT has a different feel and that's why I love racing and driving in GT. Yesterday I drove the 135I Bimmer and the 135I Ti bimmer. Driving the 2 different cars where night and day. Its a Very good driving experience in GT.
 
HBK
The wheel movements are more dynamic, but the hand holding positions are the same. He still holds the wheel like it is some kind of poo. And it's also noticeable in replays.

I now doubt this will be fixed. It was fixed in the E3 2010 demo, and then it was reverted back. There must be a reason as to why they reverted back.
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Maybe you can choose your drivers hand positions? Crab, grippy crab, and normal.
 
^ That would be fun :dopey:
HighSeasHoMastr
Correction: GT5 has the most accurately modeled Nurburgring Nordschleife in any console sim. Their other tracks are really no more impressive than FM3 or Shift 2 when taken as a package. Fuji is too wide, Laguna Seca is terrible, etc. True, in FM3 the tracks are all too smooth, but as far as accuracy to layout, width, landmarks, and whatnot they're fairly similar.
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My thoughts exactly.
 
HighSeasHoMastr
I have extensive track experience in several different cars. I can safely say that this statement is true, neither game is right. They're both about the same distance from reality, but in different ways. Hopefully FM4 will edge itself closer to reality with the new suspension and tire models. One area I really hope it improves on is track surfaces; the tracks in FM3 are really smooth, so hopefully they get bumpier in FM4.
The only sad thing is that even if it does, people will still claim that GT5 is better because for a lot of people, they think that GT5 is 'real' and anything that feels different is worse. I swear, some people would claim that iRacing and NetKar are less 'real' than GT5 just because they're different. People need to wake up and realize that GT5 is not the end-all of physics modeling, it's just one way of doing it.



Correction: GT5 has the most accurately modeled Nurburgring Nordschleife in any console sim. Their other tracks are really no more impressive than FM3 or Shift 2 when taken as a package. Fuji is too wide, Laguna Seca is terrible, etc. True, in FM3 the tracks are all too smooth, but as far as accuracy to layout, width, landmarks, and whatnot they're fairly similar.
The Nordschleife in GT5 is much better, but that's about it. Plus, there's tracks in GT5 whose graphics are fairly terrible, and need I mention the Cape Ring for "mario kart" tracks? Plus, look at Cote de Azure, that's nowhere close to the real Monaco GP track.
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Great post
 
t.o.
Great post
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Guess this is what'll happen to it, though:

128848258732954452.jpg


:lol:
 
paskowitz
I would also argue that GT5 is one of the first driving games to give almost every car a unique feel. A perfect example is the F430 and the 430 Scuderia. In GT5 they drive and feel totally different. The same cannot be said in FM. Even more perfect is the 458 Italia and the MP4-12C. When I watched the episode of Fifth Gear and Top Gear the compared the two cares it was like my mind was being read.
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Dude i had the same with Forza and made a thread about it...
 
HighSeasHoMastr
Correction: GT5 has the most accurately modeled Nurburgring Nordschleife in any console sim. Their other tracks are really no more impressive than FM3 or Shift 2 when taken as a package. Fuji is too wide, Laguna Seca is terrible, etc. True, in FM3 the tracks are all too smooth, but as far as accuracy to layout, width, landmarks, and whatnot they're fairly similar.
The Nordschleife in GT5 is much better, but that's about it.
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I completely disagree. I doubt that there is a single track in FM3 that is more accurate in measures, scale and elements placement than a GT5 track. Laguna Seca is used to make jokes about GT5 tracks being the less impressive track in the package but even that track layout is better scaled to real life than in FM3.

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[youtubehd]ImbjbxgWuuw&hd=1[/youtubehd][youtubehd]86C3dQSLYss&hd=1[/youtubehd]

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[youtubehd]Cy4SWBTkUxo&hd=1[/youtubehd]
 
Very nice Zero, I really like how you never come at people sideways, and how you back up your arguments by not only good text but explaining to people and giving proof to back up your argument. The videos really show me how good and accurate the tracks are. 👍
 
I have to agree with Zer0. GT5s tracks are pretty spot on for the most part and definitely better than the few Forza vids he posted.
 
That Laguna video was scary how close it was to real life, I love GT5 lighting sometimes I was getting confused on which video was GT5. :lol: Very impressive. 👍
 
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saidur_ali
Zer0 I was going to post something similar, thanks for saving me the trouble 👍. You might get a bit of this though:
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To funny man. I am still shocked how good those videos where. Those where really Forza4 videos though?
 
saidur_ali
The problem with Forza 3 though is that it also very stable and shows more understeer than oversteer characteristics with fast old cars. I have tried a lot of cars in the game, old and new and they all have similar driving characteristics. The R class and maybe S Class is different though. Here is a video I posted earlier. I tried to force oversteer most of the way through the lap but it really is too stable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wpEWBsem5E

I think these people feel similar things with the physics as I do.
http://www.caranddriver.com/feature...omparison_3a_gti_and_m3_at_laguna_seca_page_2
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It seems as if the person in the video is using a pad. If that is you, it is going to be more understeery because of the steering assist. The game does not let you get a full steering lock using the pad, thus increasing the understeer rate.
 
Luminis
^ That's pretty much what I've been saying for a while now. The "truth" lies somewhere in between FM3 and GT5. That's why I don't want people to use GT5 as the yard stick to measure FM4 by.
Click to expand...

paskowitz
I think everyone tends to focus on just one thing, physics. No one talks about the fact that GT5 has some of the most accurately modeled tracks out there.
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Other than the Ring in GT5, that isn't the case though.

JDMKING13
I have always felt each car in GT has a different feel and that's why I love racing and driving in GT. Yesterday I drove the 135I Bimmer and the 135I Ti bimmer. Driving the 2 different cars where night and day. Its a Very good driving experience in GT.
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Agreed, that is how it feels to me in GT, as well as Forza.

Luminis
Guess this is what'll happen to it, though:

128848258732954452.jpg


:lol:
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I couldn't have said it better myself.

That said, once these games are more like Race Pro 09 in physics, they will both be in their own little world.
 
JDMKING13
To funny man. I am still shocked how good those videos where. Those where really Forza4 videos though?
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I already know they are very close to being perfect. I follow F1 and when I drive the tracks in GT5, I can relate to what I see from onboards in F1.

James1436
It seems as if the person in the video is using a pad. If that is you, it is going to be more understeery because of the steering assist. The game does not let you get a full steering lock using the pad, thus increasing the understeer rate.
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Yes I am using a pad.

I would have thought of getting a wheel for Forza 3 if it weren't for the fact that the steering assist is enabled for wheels and as you can see in this video, with a wheel it is too forgiving. I was shocked when I first played the game how you could get away driving so recklessly in the game then found out it wasn't only me. You can see in my video above I was applying a lot of throttle, you don't have to really lift to control the car from going into a spin / losing it, you can get away with going full throttle as it is all too controllable.




Yes I know this video has been posted many times.
 
saidur_ali
Yes I am using a pad.

I would have thought of getting a wheel for Forza 3 if it weren't for the fact that the steering assist is enabled for wheels and as you can see in this video, with a wheel it is too forgiving. I was shocked when I first played the game how you could get away driving so recklessly in the game then found out it wasn't only me. You can see in my video above I was applying a lot of throttle, you don't have to really lift to control the car from going into a spin / losing it, you can get away with going full throttle as it is all too controllable.




Yes I know this video has been posted many times.
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The steering assist kicks in mostly for during oversteer for the wheel. I was talking about understeer, the wheel allows you to get a better steering lock, thus removing alot of understeer.
 
James1436
The steering assist kicks in mostly for during oversteer for the wheel. I was talking about understeer, the wheel allows you to get a better steering lock, thus removing alot of understeer.
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You also did say this underlined: "it is going to be more understeery because of the steering assist." I'm not going to put a lot of steering lock anyway with a wheel as that usually is not the fastest way. You need to minimise steering input usually to drive fast.
 
JDMKING13
The good news is Forza4 has the ability to turn it off. The Steering assist.
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Doubt it for a pad user.

The nature of the control input requires an assist.

Translating 1 inch of lateral movement into 900* requires something at least. IMHO.
 

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