Ford Mustang Thread: 2011 General Talk

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niky
Six speed is a gimmick. It just allows you to either pack an ultra-long 6th gear (EDIT: Like Jim says), or have ridiculously tight gearing.

For a torquey motor like the 4.6, tight gearing and frequent gearshifts are just a waste of time.

But then, I'm a throwback... I think 6 speeds only make sense on diesels (narrow powerband... need all the help they can get), as I find the 6th gear doesn't really add to the enjoyment of a sportscar on the track.
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On the contrary, having directly compared a 5spd auto FG Falcon to a 6spd auto FG Falcon it honestly makes the world of difference. Chances are, with the Camaro using 6th as overdrive for fuel economy, it can have a shorter 5th, which in turn allows a shorter 4th and 3rd. If Gran Turismo 5 Prologue is any indication of real life (and it probably is in this case), 5th was still very long in the Mustang for fuel economy, and the car essentially dies once you hit 4th gear.
 
Paulie
On the contrary, having directly compared a 5spd auto FG Falcon to a 6spd auto FG Falcon it honestly makes the world of difference. Chances are, with the Camaro using 6th as overdrive for fuel economy, it can have a shorter 5th, which in turn allows a shorter 4th and 3rd. If Gran Turismo 5 Prologue is any indication of real life (and it probably is in this case), 5th was still very long in the Mustang for fuel economy, and the car essentially dies once you hit 4th gear.
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*shrug* It depends on the package. I'm used to Japanese 5 speeds... which are perfect... many Japanese sportscars redline in 5th gear at their top speed... which is as it should be.

Motoring at 150 mph at low rpms with one hand on the wheel? Booooring. Motoring at 135 mph with the engine sounding like a banshee and shaking like a washing machine? Now we're talking. :lol:
 
Paulie
Chances are, with the Camaro using 6th as overdrive for fuel economy, it can have a shorter 5th, which in turn allows a shorter 4th and 3rd.
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Ah but it doesn't.

1st through 5th on the Camaro are nearly the same as the Mustang, and with the Mustang's 3.73 axle package, the Mustang will actuallly be geared shorter in said gears. Only advantage is cruising economy sadly, 5th vs 5th is identical in the transmission, 6th is just massively long.

The Camaro's auto is a different story though, it actually has advantages over the 5 speed of the Mustang. And the 5-speed auto in the Mustang is, IMO, a step down from the old 4-speed AOD/4R70W.
 
niky
Six speed is a gimmick. It just allows you to either pack an ultra-long 6th gear (EDIT: Like Jim says), or have ridiculously tight gearing.

For a torquey motor like the 4.6, tight gearing and frequent gearshifts are just a waste of time.

But then, I'm a throwback... I think 6 speeds only make sense on diesels (narrow powerband... need all the help they can get), as I find the 6th gear doesn't really add to the enjoyment of a sportscar on the track.
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Agreed. The only cars I've ever driven with six-speeds that work is the new Civic Si. The only car I've ever begged to have a six speed is my old Si. But besides that, I used to cruise down the highway in second gear in my uncle's GTO. The gears are useless on a car like that, unless you can go 200 mph like a Lambo, or you've got a tiny engine/narrow powerband, like a Civic, Miata, or diesel.
 
What's the problem with having an ultra-high cruise gear? Would you really take a four speed transmission in the Camaro over having two extra gears to improve fuel economy, even if it runs out of speed after redlining in fourth?


Agreed with Keef that the six speed is about perfect in my car. They hit top speed around 5500rpm in fifth I think, just before getting to VTEC (which would have added a couple MPH to its top speed, most likely). But the ratios are perfect. If you shift at 8k it'll drop right to the bottom of VTEC, so you never lose the powerband. 4.76 final drive FTW too.
 
Saw a couple of the '10 Mustangs today. One a V6 and not sure on the other. I checked a couple out at the dealer but these were my first two in the wild. They look pretty good in motion.

Unrelated, I spotted a Genesis Coupe going by my apartment building.
 
niky
*shrug* It depends on the package. I'm used to Japanese 5 speeds... which are perfect... many Japanese sportscars redline in 5th gear at their top speed... which is as it should be.
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When I'm turning over 4K at 80 MPH with a Camry engine... My Celica is begging for a sixth gear. I agree that in most cars, five gears are more than adequate, but having that tall gear for high-speed cruising is a nice thing to keep your head out of headache territory on the highway.
 
A six-speed is still nice. The GTI has a gear for anything you want to do, ever. In fact, the problem may even be choosing from two gears that will make the car do what you want.

Granted, with that much torque available whenever you want it, there is no such thing as a "wrong gear" to be in.
 
I still wish they'd keep the 4.6 as the base V8, tune it up to say, 335 hp, and price it below the EcoBoost V6. But with all the other engine choices available, it just seems like overkill.
 
Wow, awesome news. If the current base 4.0L V6 can get the Mustang to 60 in under 7.0 seconds than this new 3.7 is gonna be something else. Probably give the older 4.6's a run for their money.
 
Great news. I was looking around Autoblog (where the article was from) and found this:
roush427r2010fd_13_opta.jpg

:drool:
 
Awsome. I expect Ford to tune the 3.7L to have more than 300bhp just to kick the Camaro's butt. And the new 5.0L should put down close to 400bhp if not more just to stick it to GM again. The new Mustang in '11 should be one quick car. :D
 
Well the 4.6L modular (sadly) must go. The new Mustang range should be:

Base: I4 2.0L Turbo (EcoBoost) 240ish bhp
Deluxe: V6 3.5L/3.7L N/A 280ish bbhp
Premium/Pony Package: V6 3.5L/3.7L Turbo (EcoBoost) 330ish bhp
GT Deluxe: V8 5.0L plain with little options 380ish bhp
GT Premium: V8 5.0L w/navigation and appearance packages (California Special, etc) 400ish bhp
 
MinoltaMan89
^Forgot the GT500.
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No, I'm including only the factory Mustang trim levels. Any aftermarket license company is a seperate thing altogether. Saleen, Roush and Shelby to name a few are not Ford factory built so they are seperate. Each dealership has to have a license to sell most of these (minus the Shelby).
 
JCE
Well the 4.6L modular (sadly) must go. The new Mustang range should be:

Base: I4 2.0L Turbo (EcoBoost) 240ish bhp
Deluxe: V6 3.5L/3.7L N/A 280ish bbhp
Premium/Pony Package: V6 3.5L/3.7L Turbo (EcoBoost) 330ish bhp
GT Deluxe: V8 5.0L plain with little options 380ish bhp
GT Premium: V8 5.0L w/navigation and appearance packages (California Special, etc) 400ish bhp
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I'd hope the EcoBoost gets at least the 355hp that the one in the Flex puts out. Other than that I agree that a "base" should have less than the 400+ the 5.0 is capable of. Reserve the extra horsepower for whatever specialty cars they want to reincarnate. Boss 302? Another 2 year run of a Mach 1?
 
I would love to see another Mach 1 in this new generation mustang!
 
But the front air dam on the Roush is higher than any of the other ground effects. WTH?

JCE
Well the 4.6L modular (sadly) must go. The new Mustang range should be:

Base: I4 2.0L Turbo (EcoBoost) 240ish bhp
Deluxe: V6 3.5L/3.7L N/A 280ish bbhp
Premium/Pony Package: V6 3.5L/3.7L Turbo (EcoBoost) 330ish bhp
GT Deluxe: V8 5.0L plain with little options 380ish bhp
GT Premium: V8 5.0L w/navigation and appearance packages (California Special, etc) 400ish bhp
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Dude, you're crazy. How about the 3.7, 3.5TT (maybe a "hardcore" lightweight, handling-packaged, limited edition SVO?), and the new V8 on top with around 400 horsepower. Nice and simple.
 
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JCE
Base: I4 2.0L Turbo (EcoBoost) 240ish bhp
Deluxe: V6 3.5L/3.7L N/A 280ish bbhp
Premium/Pony Package: V6 3.5L/3.7L Turbo (EcoBoost) 330ish bhp
GT Deluxe: V8 5.0L plain with little options 380ish bhp
GT Premium: V8 5.0L w/navigation and appearance packages (California Special, etc) 400ish bhp
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I'm not sure Ford would want to be the first to offer a Turbo 4 in a muscle car, if at all. That's something I'm sure they want Chevy to test out first. I think they should just swap the engines from the base and GT with the 3.7 and the Hurricane and call it a day.
 
Bones Brigade
I'd hope the EcoBoost gets at least the 355hp that the one in the Flex puts out. Other than that I agree that a "base" should have less than the 400+ the 5.0 is capable of. Reserve the extra horsepower for whatever specialty cars they want to reincarnate. Boss 302? Another 2 year run of a Mach 1?
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I was being consevative in my numbers on a few of those. And I am in agreement with you that Ford can easily squeeze out 420+bhp from the new 5.0L. And I would LOVE to see another Mach 1.

ND4SPD
I would love to see another Mach 1 in this new generation mustang!
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As would I.

Keef
But the front air dam on the Roush is higher than any of the other ground effects. WTH?


Dude, you're crazy. How about the 3.7, 3.5TT (maybe a "hardcore" lightweight, handling-packaged, limited edition SVO?), and the new V8 on top with around 400 horsepower. Nice and simple.
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Keep in mind the Mustang lineup has a ton of trim options, you cannot simply just make 2 trims and leave it at that. As-is there the V6 Deluxe, V6 Premium, V6 w/Pony Package, GT Deluxe, GT Premium, GT C/S and I'm not even including the other mini packages that dealerships put on. Having a choice of trims is important.

Toronado
I'm not sure Ford would want to be the first to offer a Turbo 4 in a muscle car, if at all. That's something I'm sure they want Chevy to test out first. I think they should just swap the engines from the base and GT with the 3.7 and the Hurricane and call it a day.
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I wish they would, I would consider a new SVO if it was released. My new daily driver that I buy in 2010 is limited to a few models but the Mustang in any incarnation is in the top 3 next to a pre-owned SL500 and a Gen Coupe. :D

To satisfy everyone I redid my power numbers to what we NEED to see out of Ford for us enthusiasts.

I4 Base: I4 2.0L Turbo (EcoBoost) 250bhp
SVO: I4 2.3L Turbo (EcoBoost) 290bhp
V6 Deluxe: V6 3.7L N/A 320bhp
V6 Premium/Pony Package: V6 3.7L Turbo (EcoBoost) 365bhp
GT Deluxe: V8 5.0L N/A plain with little options 410bhp
GT Premium: V8 5.0L N/A w/navigation and appearance packages (California Special, etc) 450bhp
Mach 1: 5.0L N/A with some performance upgrades 480bhp

Now lets all just imagine how freaking fast the 2011 Mustang would be in ANY of these trim levels with the low curb weight.

:drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: <-- excessive smile use
 
There is a lot of talk that the 3.7L unit that will be coming will come equipped with a direct-injection system, boosting the output to the neighborhood of 300 BHP. If that is the case, the new Coyote V8 can't come any sooner. A 100 BHP gap between the "base" V6 and the GT seems to be a healthy enough margin. Now, if they can get around to adding a sixth gear...
 
I don't think a 6th gear really matters Brad. The Mustang GT seems to be getting almost the same combined mpg as the Camaro SS.

*edit*
According to Car and Driver (yea yea yea I know) the Mustang GT wins the mpg war.
 
JCE
Awsome. I expect Ford to tune the 3.7L to have more than 300bhp just to kick the Camaro's butt. And the new 5.0L should put down close to 400bhp if not more just to stick it to GM again. The new Mustang in '11 should be one quick car. :D
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Being 400 lbs lighter, it doesn't need 300 hp. Most people on the Mustang forum I frequent are in agreement it will probably have close to the same ratings as the 3.7 in the Lincolns. 274 hp.
Bones Brigade
I'd hope the EcoBoost gets at least the 355hp that the one in the Flex puts out. Other than that I agree that a "base" should have less than the 400+ the 5.0 is capable of. Reserve the extra horsepower for whatever specialty cars they want to reincarnate. Boss 302? Another 2 year run of a Mach 1?
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No EcoBoost for the Mustang, not for this gen at least. Gonna wait for 2014 at least.
JCE
I was being consevative in my numbers on a few of those. And I am in agreement with you that Ford can easily squeeze out 420+bhp from the new 5.0L. And I would LOVE to see another Mach 1.
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There won't be more than 400 from what I've heard from multiple inside sources. 400 is the highest number heard, while there's been rumors anywhere from 340(disproved) to 400.
YSSMAN
There is a lot of talk that the 3.7L unit that will be coming will come equipped with a direct-injection system, boosting the output to the neighborhood of 300 BHP. If that is the case, the new Coyote V8 can't come any sooner. A 100 BHP gap between the "base" V6 and the GT seems to be a healthy enough margin. Now, if they can get around to adding a sixth gear...
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With the new engines comes 6 speeds, garuntee'd. Confirmed by inside sources
 
mustangGT90210
Being 400 lbs lighter, it doesn't need 300 hp. Most people on the Mustang forum I frequent are in agreement it will probably have close to the same ratings as the 3.7 in the Lincolns. 274 hp.

No EcoBoost for the Mustang, not for this gen at least. Gonna wait for 2014 at least.

There won't be more than 400 from what I've heard from multiple inside sources. 400 is the highest number heard, while there's been rumors anywhere from 340(disproved) to 400.


With the new engines comes 6 speeds, garuntee'd. Confirmed by inside sources
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Care to divulge your "inside sources"? I don't trust a rumor mill web site/forum (in this case that Mustang forum). Unless this source is a Ford engineer or works for the corporate office I highly doubt anyone really know what's coming and how much of it is indeed coming.
 
mustangGT90210
With the new engines comes 6 speeds, garuntee'd. Confirmed by inside sources
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God, I hope so. I mean, five-speed slushboxes are genuinely adequate, but for the manual gearbox... It just makes sense. Put in the outrageously tall sixth gear and run similar ratios to the current box, dodge that "Gas Guzzler" tax. Pretty much, it just makes sense. Especially in the light of more powerful engines coming on board.

Now, Ford has to address one other issue:

Please, please, please offer a legitimately awesome green color on the car. The lime/vomit green is not cool. No, it doesn't have to be Bullitt-edition Highland Green. But please, c'mon, offer a better color. The car deserves it.


Totally Random Thought:

The local (Fox) Ford dealer must have had an overnight revelation. I dropped by the dealer yesterday and they actually had a stripped-out GT with a stick on the lot. I was literally blown away by that choice, which never happens there. It was that awesome "Petty Blue" (I don't know the official name), and the only option box checked was for the shorter axle ratio. Totally awesome. Only thing the car needed was a spoiler-delete. Otherwise, damn-near perfect.
 
When you say stripped out do you mean literally stripped of the interior? I'd love to see pics of that.
 
Christ-on-a-bike, didn't realise the Mustang still used the ancient Cologne V6. :eek:
 

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