Ford Mustang Thread: 2011 General Talk

[Rotary Junkie]

That is true, the weight would drop, wouldn't it still weigh like 1600kg min. though? Pretty heavy for a 4cyl to cart around.

Ehhh it's not that bad really.

Especially with the right gearing and a turbo hanging off said 4 cylinder.

Something like the gear ratios already in the Camaro's automatic along with a 4.10 final drive ratio will make city driving easy and highway driving at least decent. (The 4.XX first gear is what I'm staring at, it makes getting the mass moving very, very easy)

Give those same ratios to a manual model and you have a winner. 25+ in the city is not at all hard at that point.

 

[Adamgp]

I just don't see how an I4 in the Mustang (let alone the bigger heavier Camaro and Challenger) would accomplish anything.

 

[Jim Prower]

Keeps the greenies happy. @_@

 

[CodeRedR51]

It's official:

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/11/30/2011-ford-mustang-v6-la-2009-preview/

305hp, 280lb/ft, 7,000rpm redline and 30mpg highway? If I was in the market for a V6 performance car, sign me up!

 

[Prince.M5]

WHOW!! This Mustang is sexy!! Waaayyy better than the previous one!! With that power and efficiency, boy get me in there!!

 

[JCE]

woot a V6 with balls.

 

[Bones Brigade]

Damn. Hopefully I'll be poised for a weekend car in the next two years or so. Many good options coming available.

If only I didn't have to work any harder to afford a second car.

 

[a6m5]

I have liked the redesigned V6 Mustangs much better than the last one(that one wasn't bad either). Actually, I've told people that I might like it better than the GT design. But with this new engine, this could end the V6 Mustangs getting labeled as the chick's car.

 

[Tornado]

30 MPG? 7000 RPM? 280 lb-ft? And it isn't even DI? Sorry, Chevy. As much as I love the Camaro, I find no more reason to care about it anymore. The Genesis Coupe as well, to a lesser extent.

That being said, it makes the current GT look like a joke, so lets hope the 5.0 doesn't take too long.

 

[niky]

You don't need DI for high HP. All you need is revs.

DI is merely there for the fuel economy and low-end smoothness. Though you don't need it for those, either.

 

[YSSMAN]

Nice one, Ford. Way to stick it to the Camaro, again. Keep in mind that the Blue Oval Boys are throwing six-speed automatics and manuals in there too. They've turned the Mustang V6 into an entirely legitimate alternative to the Genesis 3.8 and to some extent the 370Z as well, and of course, all of this bodes pretty well for getting the seemingly inevitable EcoBoost model.

Lets hope Ford shows us the Boss-powered Mustang that we've been wanting for years at the LA Auto Show.

 

[Tornado]

You don't need DI for high HP. All you need is revs.

DI is merely there for the fuel economy and low-end smoothness. Though you don't need it for those, either.

I know, but with certain companies starting to play up DI as doing much more than it actually does (GM says hi!), it is surprising that Ford didn't take the same route and DI the 3.7 to 300 so they could have another blurb on the press packet.

 

[JCE]

I want to see the track numbers...

 

[niky]

No doubt, they'll be good. less weight than the V8 and significantly less than the Camaro? it'll be a smasher.

I know, but with certain companies starting to play up DI as doing much more than it actually does (GM says hi!), it is surprising that Ford didn't take the same route and DI the 3.7 to 300 so they could have another blurb on the press packet.

Ah... but there's always the "EcoBoost" option. I'm still waiting for my turbo-4 Mustang...

 

[Paulie]

Hell yes, this is a Ford I would seriously consider buying. I seriously think this will match the 370Z, given the current, heavier V8 GT can almost keep up as it is. What I'm really keen to hear is the weight of the new V6 stang, which has not been revealed yet.
Too bad we don't get these ones in Australia. (I know, something good Australia doesn't get )

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Winner.

Now they just need to bring the V8 to a comparable level of performance (as in specific output)... 400hp, 25+mpg, modern-era performance around corners? Yes plz.

 

[The Outlaw]

To me something just isn't right about a Mustang with anything less than a V8 I own a 07 GT which has just about every mod under the sun, and can tell you that the car is far from being a good handling car from the factory. And VERY little has changed structurally or in the suspension since 07...mostly just cosmetic stuff.

IMO there's no comparison between a 370Z and a new V6 Mustang sorry to say. The Mustang takes a fair bit of work and money to make handle well, with quite soft suspension from the factory, a solid rear axle, and a bit of extra weight around it's belly. And even then, once the Mustang is fully set-up the ride is rather crappy on the street compared to a stiffly sprung independent rear suspension car, at least if you use rather stiff springs/dampers/sways and spherical bushing on the suspension componenets to tighten up the movement of the solid axle. I will say that it will take a corner with the best of them when fully set-up though...proof being - the S197 FR500C Mustangs dominance in Grand-Am competing against the Porsche cup cars (albeit de-tuned), E46 M3's, etc. As well as the Mustang FR500GT being able to compete in FIA GT2 against the hard hitting F430 GT2, 911 RSR, Gallardo GT2, etc.

The Z is a true definition of a sports car though, while the V6 Mustang doesn't really know what it wants to be. Yea it will be a solid straightline car with good modding potential, but good luck thinking you can go around a corner with a 370Z, without a fair bit of suspension work done to the Stang. The V8 is the heart of a Mustang, kind of like the rotary in a RX-7 for example. Every time I hear a souped up V6 Mustang I cringe and think, why didn't you spend just a few grand more and get the real thing? The V6's sounds out of place and like arse compared to a V8. Now I'm not sure how the new 6 will sound with exhaust...hopefully a lot better than the tractor sounding Ford V6's of the past.

I also owned a 05 350Z so I would gander to say that my opinion is worth something, even though the new base 370Z is a hell of a lot better than the 05 I had in many ways.

My 2 cents

 

[CodeRedR51]

IMO there's no comparison between a 370Z and a new ecoboost Mustang sorry to say...

The Z is a true definition of a sports car though, while the V6 ecoboost Mustang doesn't really know what it wants to be.... I'm sure the new ecoboost V6 Mustang will be a great car if you're looking to throw a few mods at the motor while turning up the boost to get 500hp or so.... Now I'm not sure how the new ecoboost 6 will sound with exhaust...hopefully a lot better than Fords V6's of the past....

No ecoboost here. Straight up N/A power.

 

[Stotty]

The Z is a true definition of a sports car

Autocar recently ran a 370Z against a Focus RS and a Scirocco R... the Z came last by a mile. Despite having more absolute power and a higher power to weight ratio than either the Ford or the VW, the Z struggled to even keep up on mixed roads.

If the Z is that much better than a Mustang I hate to think how bad the Mustang must be

 

[The Outlaw]

Thanks for the correction 👍 That's what I get for not reading the article I just for some reason assumed they were using the ecoboost for the V6 model And being that it's NA makes it even less appealing to me due to the limited modification versus a twin turbo engine.

I'll go back and correct my post.

Autocar recently ran a 370Z against a Focus RS and a Scirocco R... the Z came last by a mile. Despite having more absolute power and a higher power to weight ratio than either the Ford or the VW, the Z struggled to even keep up on mixed roads.

If the Z is that much better than a Mustang I hate to think how bad the Mustang must be

Well I'd like to see this article. And by mixed road's what do you mean? Mountain/street roads (which is potentially illegal) with no circuit driving? Because if they only did mountain/street road testing it was obviously meant to be a bit biased, with an aim for what results they were looking to achieve Just like when they were trying to write up the Focus RS to be oh so mighty when they compared it to the GT-R on a tight/narrow back road...go to a real circuit if you really want to see the differences in those two cars, because comparing the true potential of both cars on such a road is blasphemy.

Those small hatches are really set-up well for those narrow mountain roads...even if they brought a GT3 (which I'm sure you're a big fan of) or Scuderia, they probably would have lost out to the Focus and Scirocco as well, simply due to the fact that they would have been completely
out of their element.

BTW, a new 370Z drives much nicer than a 996 Carrera (both cars I've driven). The only part that makes the 996 better IMO is of course the characteristics of the rear engine...but sorry to say, if you want to look at the bottom line without being a badge snob, the Z has the 911 beat in every other category not just in the stats, but in the quality of the such items like the engine, handling, steering, gearbox, brakes, etc.). I would give the overall fun factor nod to the Z, which is pretty good considering you can buy a new one for the price of a fairly used 996 with no warranty.

So Focus RS & Scirocco > 996 Carrera? haha jk...just giving you a hard time

 

[Stotty]

I'll pass on some of the points in the article later/tomorrow.

And where exactly did I mention Porsche in my post

 

[Leonidae]

I'd still take the Camaro V6 RS + manual, kthxbai.. why? Chevy pulled off the classic retro look better. And Camaro has IRS as well..

 

[Spencer]

I'm just glad the GT500 is getting an aluminum block so that I can get it via an OEM part number.

I'm not very happy with the design they did on the outside of the new gen stangs but the engines and interior are even better.

I woulda liked to see an optional ecoboost with 365 hp and the taurus' flat torque curve.

IRS is no better than a properly setup solid axle and IRSes are big PITAs to work on. The one stupidest thing GM did on the V6 Camaro was put single piston brakes on it...I would except better front brakes than my 82 z28 has on it.

 

[Tornado]

The Z is a true definition of a sports car though, while the V6 Mustang doesn't really know what it wants to be. Yea it will be a solid straightline car with good modding potential, but good luck thinking you can go around a corner with a 370Z, without a fair bit of suspension work done to the Stang.

The current Mustang GT actually handles nearly as well as the 370Z does, though.

 

[Omnis]

30 MPG? 7000 RPM? 280 lb-ft? And it isn't even DI? Sorry, Chevy. As much as I love the Camaro, I find no more reason to care about it anymore. The Genesis Coupe as well, to a lesser extent.

That being said, it makes the current GT look like a joke, so lets hope the 5.0 doesn't take too long.

Now all we need is a contemporary interior and independent rear suspension for MY12 and the Mustang will have trampled the rest. Never cared for the Camaro but the Gen coupe has the IRS, brembos, and a torsen LSD if that means anything.

Seriously, I wish they would ditch the retro crap on the inside.

 

[The Outlaw]

I'd still take the Camaro V6 RS + manual, kthxbai.. why? Chevy pulled off the classic retro look better. And Camaro has IRS as well..

Well the problem with the Camaro is that it's an overweight pig. That's great that it has IRS to improve the handling and ride (moreso on rough roads), but weight is the bigger issue with that car.

IRS is no better than a properly setup solid axle

Can't agree with that. A solid axle is great for drag racing, and works fairly well on a smooth road course. But when it comes to street driving and any circuit with a rough surface IRS > solid axle without a doubt. And to get a solid axle set-up properly using spherical bushings on the panhard bar/trailing arms/third link to help tighten the rear end up, the ride quality goes to hell as well as the road noise transferred through the axle up into the chassis.

The current Mustang GT actually handles nearly as well as the 370Z does, though.

Maybe with the track pack. Even then the rather meaningless data (skidpad, slalom) don't really tell the story of the performance on the track either. I suggest you go drive a base Mustang GT and then a 370Z to get a better idea of how dramatic the handling characteristics and feel of the cars are. The 370Z's handling and feel is more inline with a Cayman S. I dropped off a Cayman S when they first came out to a customer, and that car feels awesome in terms of feel and handling out of the box.

I'll pass on some of the points in the article later/tomorrow.

And where exactly did I mention Porsche in my post

I know you didn't. But you said it was hard to imagine how bad the Mustang would handle when the 370Z got beat by the Focus RS and Scirocco in that PARTICULAR crapshoot review. Well it can't be that hard to imagine how bad the Mustang handles when the 370Z handles better than your stock 996 That was my point by bringing up the Porsche, as you decided to jump in and take a subliminal stab at the Mustang and 370Z which I'm sure you see as being much lesser vehicles than your outdated Porsche.

 

[///M-Spec]

Can't agree with that. A solid axle is great for drag racing, and works fairly well on a smooth road course. But when it comes to street driving and any circuit with a rough surface IRS > solid axle without a doubt. And to get a solid axle set-up properly using spherical bushings on the panhard bar/trailing arms/third link to help tighten the rear end up, the ride quality goes to hell as well as the road noise transferred through the axle up into the chassis.

I was just about to wonder how one could set up a live axle to isolate a bump on one side affecting the geometry on the other side, but it looks like you beat me to it.

I know you didn't. But you said it was hard to imagine how bad the Mustang would handle when the 370Z got beat in that PARTICULAR crapshoot review. Well it can't be that hard to imagine how bad the Mustang handles when the 370Z handles better than your stock 996 That was my point by bringing up Porsche.

Give the guy a break. There's 10 years between a Z34 and 996.


M

 

[Spencer]

Sounds like we got ourselves a dedicated Mustang hater.

You don't know what is better unless you take each to a track and try it out. Skid pad tests aren't always good examples of how a car is going to do on the track.

I have solid axle GT500 that can stay even and sometimes beat up to last gen M3s and can easily smoke the new Camaros SSes on road courses and its still very nice to drive on the road.

I would like to see how the 370Z does without all its computer help.

 

[The Outlaw]

I was just about to wonder how one could set up a live axle to isolate a bump on one side affecting the geometry on the other side, but it looks like you beat me to it.

Well replacing those parts with stiffer components as well as replacing the rod end bushing with spherical bushings only helps to eliminate play/slop in order to keep the axle centered and in place as solidly as possible. With the stock rubber bushing they sacrifice ride quality at expense of negative traits like wheel hop or slight axle deflection in the suspension parts when going over a bump mid corner, which can unsettle the car as the tire loses a bit of contact/adhesion over the bump. This doesn't change the fact that the solid axle still can't isolate a bump affecting one wheel, without having some affect on the other end of the axle.


Give the guy a break. There's 10 years between a Z34 and 996.

Well maybe he should give his comments a break...since who is he to speak when you want to get down to it? Most Porsche owners don't have a fair opinion when comparing cars without having some sort of hidden bias toward the badge or heritage of the car/maker or anything else that doesn't directly affect the performance of the car.

M

Sounds like we got ourselves a dedicated Mustang hater.

You don't know what is better unless you take each to a track and try it out. Skid pad tests aren't always good examples of how a car is going to do on the track.

I have solid axle GT500 that can stay even and sometimes beat up to last gen M3s and can easily smoke the new Camaros SSes on road courses and its still very nice to drive on the road.

I would like to see how the 370Z does without all its computer help.

Just curious but what computer help are you talking about? The only special computer help the Z has is TCS and ACS, and auto rev matching on the Manual. Please explain more 👍

And of course when it comes to road racing in real life, the driver without a doubt is the most important element. That said, a bone stock GT500 should beat a E46 M3 on most higher speed tracks as well as a Camaro SS on just about any track you can throw at the two with equal drivers. Its massive power can easily make up for it's slightly inferior handling to the E46 M3.

And lastly who is the dedicated Mustang hater you speak of?

 

[Spencer]

The the auto blipping on downshifting can make marginal drivers drivers look good, not that I wouldn't want a transmission that does that. The only other thing I could find was 370Z also has stability control. I thought there were more things but I guess not. <- sorta invalidates my point

I was speaking more like the tighter tracks like Autobahn Country Club and Blackhawk Farms which are technical, tight tracks. And you're right, driver ability does play into it a lot.

You may not be one but you do come off as a Mustang hater.