FORMULA 1™ Magyar Nagydíj 2007

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In any case, I see Alonso having nothing to do in this whole thing, going WTF when Hamilton was supposed to let him pass, about to have a bad moment when the tyre guy trapped that thing behind the wheel, being told to stop, fighting for a pole position.... And, all of a sudden, being considered the dirtiest driver in the world, threatened to jump 10 positions back for a team decision.

Yay for McLaren.
 
Ferrari does not have a lack of pace, both Ferrari drivers showed a faster pace in the last 3 races, although Kimi's car failed on him and Massa is a complete disaster in the wet...

Note the word 'today', meaning this weekend in this case ;)

There is no denying that McLaren have been consistently faster during the whole weekend - or, that Ferrari stayed behind, which is more logical seeing as BMW Sauber, McLaren, and Williams ran very closely, if not faster, than what was the fastest car during the last races.
 
In any case, I see Alonso having nothing to do in this whole thing, going WTF when Hamilton was supposed to let him pass, about to have a bad moment when the tyre guy trapped that thing behind the wheel, being told to stop, fighting for a pole position.... And, all of a sudden, being considered the dirtiest driver in the world, threatened to jump 10 positions back for a team decision.

Yay for McLaren.


Either way, I can't remember the last time I viewed a season where the fastest cars took eachother head on instead of going "Oh noz, ur carz fasterz then ours, we're goin' to sue you for stealing documents!"

2003? 1999? I really don't know, Montoya was IMO a fantastic driver, he always made races fun to watch. These days, drivers like Montoya get bashed because apparently watching a race where the driver hasn't been decided untill the last 10 laps is boring and incredibly stupid...With all respect, but that's the feeling I get when watching F1 the last years...
 
In any case, I see Alonso having nothing to do in this whole thing, going WTF when Hamilton was supposed to let him pass, about to have a bad moment when the tyre guy trapped that thing behind the wheel, being told to stop, fighting for a pole position.... And, all of a sudden, being considered the dirtiest driver in the world, threatened to jump 10 positions back for a team decision.

Yay for McLaren.
You wouldn't also happen to be one of those Spanish writers now would you? ;)





Ferrari does not have a lack of pace, both Ferrari drivers showed a faster pace in the last 3 races, although Kimi's car failed on him and Massa is a complete disaster in the wet...
The commentators during the practice sessions had a very interesting take on why Masa was having problems in the wet at the end of the race. I do not recall exactly what they said, but they were talking about how the Bridgestone wet tires are not as well bonded to the rims when they are at lower temp such that if a driver spins them too hard coming out of the pits they can partially separate... or something like that.

Any way, they compared Masa's last exit out of pit lane to Alonso's, and Alonso was much more careful not to put too much pressure on the tires, while Masa did not. This they claim was why Masa struggled at the end, as the tires became just lose enough that they lost gripping power.

I should have saved the practice session from my DVR, otherwise I might have been able to better translate the explanation the commentators gave for the discrepancy in lap times.... but I suppose this is a topic that should be discussed else where any way. :)
 
This they claim was why Masa struggled at the end, as the tires became just lose enough that they lost gripping power.


Makes sense to me, I already got the feeling there was something wrong with Massa's car in the wet. As if he was driving on the wrong tyres, or too less downforce, or even no traction control...
 
You wouldn't also happen to be one of those Spanish writers now would you? ;)

Well, looking at it this way, I could seem one of them... But believe me, I'm nowhere close to what most of the spanish population think about it. Getting into spanish forums and such, you'll see people cheering Alonso for doing such a great, brilliant and genius move, laughing at Ron and Hamilton for sobbing.

So, where am I to be? In the middle, I guess... Alonso is still another driver in the bunch (even if in the top bunch), but I don't think he's had anything to do in this. And most of the F1 community has something against him, always swinging towards Raikkonen, Schumi or Hamilton, dunno why...

EDIT: Oh, and if Alonso is pushed back in the starting grid, I'll consider Hamilton the luckest driver in F1's history. Dodging his team's orders and making his teammate charge with what HE did wrong.
 
So, where am I to be? In the middle, I guess...
Well I must say you certainly do not sound like you are in the middle, far from it, but that's just my opinion.


Alonso is still another driver in the bunch (even if in the top bunch), but I don't think he's had anything to do in this. And most of the F1 community has something against him, always swinging towards Raikkonen, Schumi or Hamilton, dunno why...
While I do not agree with your assessment, as I think Alonso at least used to be very popular, but his actions on and off the track last year and into this year I suspect have certainly hurt his popularity, but he has mostly himself to blame for that.


EDIT: Oh, and if Alonso is pushed back in the starting grid, I'll consider Hamilton the luckest driver in F1's history. Dodging his team's orders and making his teammate charge with what HE did wrong.
Except that there is overwhelming evidence that this is not the case.



Alonso NOT to be sanctioned, or that's what the same spanish media says. In any case, good news. :D
Spoken like a true middleman. ;)
 
Okay, okay, I admit it, I'm not a middleman. But I'd like to see you coming to Spain and staying neutral. As hard as being a neutral british, too. ;)
 
Not really. Hamilton's been forced down everyone's throats to the point where I find myself preferring him not to win.
 
IT JUST DOESN'T ADD UP!

I just re-watched the entire 15 minute Q3 session and I'm afraid a lot of things just don't add up in regards to this apparent team penalty against Hamilton:

Just as an aside, in qualifying, the fact the lollipop was raised doesn't really mean anything.

In Q2, at Alonso's stop, the tyres were changed, the lollipop was raised, but then the lollipop guy gave him a 5 second countdown using his fingers to tell Alonso when to go.
Actually it was his first stop in Q3 with seven minutes remaining in the session, and if you go back and look at it, the lollipop man is still very much holding down the lollipop while counting down with his fingers in front of Alonso. When he reached "one" he lifted the lollipop and Alonso started to go... as anyone knows that the lifting of the lollipop is the go signal to a driver.... and as a point of fact on how important the lollipop is in communicating to a driver when to go and when not to go, the moment they saw he had a problem with the right front tire warmer, the lollipop man immediately brought the stick back down to be sure Alonso stopped. When they fixed it seven seconds later, the lollipop lifted and off he went.

Yes, drivers have radios, and even if the lollipop guy mistakenly raises the stick, if the driver is being told to stay, I suspect he would. However, the lollipop man ALSO has a radio, and yet he ifted the stick, and had this been a mistake, then why in those ten seconds did he never once put the stick back down? Hmmm.

BTW: Considering what happened in that stop with the seven second delay because of the tire warmer, you'd also expect the team to not only allow the tires to get cold while waiting in the pits, but not not send Alonso that close to the time limit, because if he had another tire warmer mishap, he too would have missed his last qualifying lap. Honestly, the more you look into this, the more guilty Alonso looks.

So now fast forward to Alonso's now infamous second and final pit stop, the lollipop man again holds him with the stick down for an extra 20 seconds, and then lifts the lollipop... ,but this time Alonso stays put for another 10 seconds before leaving with everyone just standing there doing nothing but waiting with Hamilton's new tires. I'm sorry, but this doesn't add up.





In any case, I see Alonso having nothing to do in this whole thing, going WTF when Hamilton was supposed to let him pass
This is what completely lacks credibility. When was Alonso supposed to pass Hamilton???

The only time Hamilton was in front of Alonso was at the start, and that was just for the warm-up laps and to burn off fuel. Besides, even then, Alonso was never even close to Hamilton, and in fact was being shadowed by Kimi all the way to the first set of pit stops.

Did you pay attention to the first pit stops? Because his team held Alonso back 40 seconds in the pits, and because of the mishap that cost him another 7 seconds, Alonso left the pits 20 seconds ahead of Hamilton! Hello???? It wasn't Hamilton who was in front of Alonso after the first pit stop, and before his first hot lap! It was Alonso in front of Hamilton!

Did Alonso have some special warp drive that was going to allow him to pass everyone on the track and make up the 60 second gap between himself and Hamilton in just one warm-up lap and one hot lap before making his final pit stop??? It’s unbelievable!





Hamilton ALREADY did his last lap. He wasn't supposed to do another one. If he followed the team's orders, this wouldn't have happened since he'd have another lap to do. So, it's not like he was held back from doing his last lap, but he still tried to make ANOTHER one.
This makes no sense.

Hamilton finished what you claim was his last lap with 3 minutes and 25 seconds still left in the session... and he was behind Alonso of course!





So we are being asked to believe that Hamilton was told to let Alonso pass, even though he was 20 seconds behind Alonso already when they had finished their fuel burn-off/warm-up laps and first pit stops???

So we are being asked to believe that although they didn’t do it before, when the Lollipop man lifted the stick they still didn’t want Alonso to leave the pits???

So we are being asked to believe that for some reason no one told the lollipop man that Alonso had to be held another ten seconds to punish Hamilton, nor did they tell him over the radio to put the stick back down during those 10 long senonds???

So we are being asked to believe that despite being able to “punish” Hamilton for not allowing a pass even though he was behind Alonso, by simply holding Hamilton up in the pits, Ron Denis decides instead to break the rules, risk Alonso being relegated to P22 and instead hold up Alonso ???

So we are being asked to believe that Ron Denis would do anything to jeopardize his team and drivers over a total non issue???

So we are being asked to believe that despite witnesses reporting seeing Alonso’s physical therapist signaling him from the garage area, that just so happened to coincided with Alonso finally leaving the pits, it had nothing to do with it???

So we are being asked to believe Ron Denis was angry at Alonso’s physical therapist, because Hamilton didn’t allow Alonso to pass, even though he was 20 seconds behind Alonso???



I have no doubt McLaren and F1 will do everything in their power to try and come up with an explanation for all of these events, but for me the proof was captured on camera.
 
Not really. Hamilton's been forced down everyone's throats to the point where I find myself preferring him not to win.

I do know what you mean, the ITV team seem more than happy to tell us that the only driver in F1 is Hamilton, but for me I can't hold it against the guy, he seems a nice guy and one hell of a driver, so or not whether the ITV crew go on about him all day I still find myself supporting him, as well as a few other drivers, e.g Heidfeld.

+rep for Digital Nitrate that was a seriously articulate post and appears to me far closer to the truth than what appears to be the verdict of the FIA, for me it comes as no surprise that they are willing to let Mclaren deal with it internally rather than blow the whole thing open, by dishing out penalties and making the whole scenario reflect F1 in a bad light.

As for why Hamilton is taking the fall for being done over by Alonso, this also fails to surprise me. Hamilton has already shown he can keep his cool and stay posetive in interviews, he can surly take the rap quietly for this one, for the 'greater good' he and Ron are good friends I hear, and Hamilton is the type who will take one for the team if it is needed, whether he is happy about taking the fall behind closed doors, we will never know, but if Ron tells him to do it, he will no doubt do it. Perhaps Alonso will suffer the consequences in front of everyone, perhaps things will be dealt with secretly, perhaps it won't be dealt with at all, who knows. I know for me if nothing happens I will be angry particularly if Alonso takes the middle step on the podium tomorrow.
 
Everyone seems to be over complicating things.

Both went into pits for some new tyres for their final hot lap. Alonso had the pit stop and was told to wait until the track was clear, lollypop lifted he waited for 4-5 seconds. Hamilton had his stop, but missed the chequered flag by about 4 seconds.

It reeks of Schumacher-esque 'tactics' something I never thought I'd see Alonso do, oh well. He's not fitted in at Mclaren and isn't going to last. He has a horrible attitude and is jealous of having a team mate who he is to compete against as opposed to being No1 driver.

But Lewis is quicker and I expect him to win.
 
Autosport.com
Alonso demoted to sixth in Hungary

By Biranit Goren Saturday, August 4th 2007, 21:49 GMT

World Champion Fernando Alonso has lost his pole position for the Hungarian Grand Prix and will start tomorrow's race in sixth place.

The race stewards at the Hungaroring have decided to demote the McLaren driver after reviewing evidence from today's qualifying session, where the Spaniard held up teammate Lewis Hamilton in the pits, causing the Briton to miss out on a final flying lap and possible pole.

Alonso was adamant that he remained stationary for ten seconds because his engineers had told him to, while team boss Ron Dennis told reporters after the session that the incident was a result of Hamilton himself ignoring team orders earlier on in the session, therefore leaving the two drivers out of sequence.

The stewards talked to representatives of the team and reviewed recordings of the car radio transmissions before making their decision, over eight hours after qualifying ended.
Justice has been done.
 
Indeed justice has been done... and regardless of if Hamilton was out of sequence or not, Alonso just sat there!
 
Everyone seems to be over complicating things.

Both went into pits for some new tyres for their final hot lap. Alonso had the pit stop and was told to wait until the track was clear, lollypop lifted he waited for 4-5 seconds. Hamilton had his stop, but missed the chequered flag by about 4 seconds.
He waited exactly 10 additional seconds.
  • 2:15 Alonso starts final pit stop.
  • 2:08 (7 seconds) Pit Stop is completed, but lollipop man holds Alonso.
  • 1:48 (20 seconds) Lollipop man finally lifts the lollipop, but Aonso doesn't budge.
  • 1:38 (10 seconds) Alonso finally leaves.
  • 1:55 Hamilton slowly moves in behind Alonso.
  • 1:33 (22 seconds) Hamilton can finally start his pit stop.
  • 1:27 (6 seconds) Hamilton completes his stop and quickly departs.
What's worse is that Alonso's delay was clearly not for traffic as there was a wide open track in front of Kimi had he left when his stop was finished. Instead, his "delay" caused him to come out right in front of Kimi on a hot lap, which meant he had to slow down and let Kimi pass.


It reeks of Schumacher-esque 'tactics' something I never thought I'd see Alonso do, oh well. He's not fitted in at Mclaren and isn't going to last. He has a horrible attitude and is jealous of having a team mate who he is to compete against as opposed to being No1 driver.
Agreed.





Justice has been done.
Partial justice at best I'm afraid. Remember Michael Schumacher got relegated to P22/pit lane on his fake crash last year at Monaco, and at least Schumacher had the pole prior to his pathetic attempt to protect his pole.

Basically they just made it as if nothing happened, and that Alonso's last lap didn't count.

If Michael deserved to start in pit lane, which he most certainly did, then so does Alonso.

F1 is just a mess right now. 👎
 
With the spying row still in flight, McLaren really do not need bad press like this. They are shooting themselves in the foot championship-wise.
 
With the spying row still in flight, McLaren really do not need bad press like this. They are shooting themselves in the foot championship-wise.
Sadly, I agree!

I am especially deeply disappointed in Ron Denis in his attempt to hide the truth about this ugly affair, especially in how he tried to blame it entirely on Hamilton.

This combined with his snide comment following the FIA's ruling that while guilty, McLaren would not be punished for espionage, saying "The punishment met the crime..." 👎

I will be shocked if Alonso is allowed to remain at McLaren next year, because if he is, I can almost be certain Hamilton will not stick around for another year like this.
 
BMW must be happy with all these altercations between Ferrari and McMerc.

Them along with Renault and maybe Williams could take advantage of it.
 
With the spying row still in flight, McLaren really do not need bad press like this. They are shooting themselves in the foot championship-wise.

Thats true, but then again Mclaren couldn't prevent a inside team mutiny, or perhaps just a few guys trying to exacute a plan, I don't see how he thought he could get away with it, was this Pre-emptive? if so that is ridiculous, was it heat of the moment, though I doubt it, its hardly a trick you can plan quickly, you need to plan, pit exit times, pit times, etc. Mclaren is suffering some serious problems considering they are in the top spot, did they bring it upon themselves or are they suffering from a few rogue employees? who knows... but I am expecting a good race tomorrow, Hamilton, Heidfeld, my two favorite drivers doing the one two, Alonso has shot himself in the foot, what could be better, its just a shame about Massa he seems a nice guy and its a shame he was done over my a mechanical fault.
 
BMW must be happy with all these altercations between Ferrari and McMerc.

Them along with Renault and maybe Williams could take advantage of it.
:)

Frankly, I'm almost at the point where I'd be happy to see both McLaren and Ferrari removed from the rest of the season, and maybe then be able to enjoy some F1 without all the unnecessary drama, intrigue, cheating, and espionage for a change.
 
Sadly, I agree!

I am especially deeply disappointed in Ron Denis in his attempt to hide the truth about this ugly affair, especially in how he tried to blame it entirely on Hamilton.

This combined with his snide comment following the FIA's ruling that while guilty, McLaren would not be punished for espionage, saying "The punishment met the crime..." 👎

I will be shocked if Alonso is allowed to remain at McLaren next year, because if he is, I can almost be certain Hamilton will not stick around for another year like this.

McLaren certainly need to take a step back and re-evaluate the rest of the season. Just when it looked like their drivers were getting along, some stupid stunt like the qualifying incident happens.

and for all McLaren has done for Hamilton, I wouldn't blame him if he wanted to leave the team if it carries on like this. Louis from what I've seen (limited since I work weekends and hardly see the races) is just as talented as Alonso, but history has shown... two strong drivers at one team invariably leads to trouble.

BMW must be happy with all these altercations between Ferrari and McMerc.

Them along with Renault and maybe Williams could take advantage of it.

Good point Danny. With the pre-occupation of the top two now is probably BMW's, Renault's and Williams' best chance to muscle into the top spots.
 
I don't see Hamilton leaving McMerc, simply because Alonso looks far more likely to be the leaving one. Perhaps he'll find a spot with Raikkonen, or Renault?
 
The way it went this weekend, it's first Williams, then Renault.

I thought Renault had been outperforming Williams so far this season?
If it came down to a straight fight between BMW and either Renault or Williams I think Renault would give them a better run for their money.

I bet Williams are missing the BMW backing. :P
 
I don't see Hamilton leaving McMerc, simply because Alonso looks far more likely to be the leaving one. Perhaps he'll find a spot with Raikkonen, or Renault?

I don't see Alonso going to Ferrari... mainly because I think Ferrari have the dream team. Two great talents who can get along and not have the problems that Alonso and Hamilton have.

Renault, hmmm.... in which case I'd guess Fisi would be making way. However what if Renault were to find their form again and Heikki started performing at his best?

Tis a tough thing
 
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