Forza 4 VS GT5 (read the first post before you contribute)

[Northstar]

The only reason the jag was upgraded was because it was modelled partly before the game's release. They have more than likely modelled more than one standard car

Weren't you the same person who was raising a fuss about T10 preparing DLC before F4's release? Now it's not even an issue that it seems PD has done the same thing?

(Kaz does not want to sell standard to premium cars as DLC)

Well, he did, so....

 

[cuco33]

I'll take a stab at realistic/unrealistic shots

GT5, my version of jaw dropping real:

GT5, my version of not real:

FM4, realistic:

FM4 not realistic:

I realized I never uploaded a few more shots, one in particular is the 'too thin' look to tail lights like the mk1 VW Rabbit GTI

 

[JoeMaPampang]

Photomode comparisons do not show of true graphics. I think this is what that guy is saying when he says Forza has cartoony graphics (mainly due to lighting system and colour saturation):

The only reason the jag was upgraded was because it was modelled partly before the game's release. They have more than likely modelled more than one standard car (Kaz does not want to sell standard to premium cars as DLC)

Max you have a good point about premium interiors looking second to none. Its still better than the competition but its a very very small gap. Thats one of the thing that makes me come back to gt5 although after 15 minutes i'm already tired of loading times, screantear, lack of visual sense of speed (aparant in video below) and those horrendous sounds. The game lacks that feel i get when i drive the same cars in Forza. And it seems PD once agian fails to deliver proper engine sounds on the Aventador and V12 Vantage. It's definitly better than it was before but still lacks that uuumhff.

So in short the best graphics in the world cannot fix what's wrong with gt5 at the moment. maybe gt6 will be as good as gt4 was for many of us. Until then its Forza Motorsport all the way my friend. once you go Forza you never go back 👍

Sound comparison


edit better color that green was awefull

 

[hennessey86]

I wonder where Max has been for exactly one week....

Oh and unrealistic....

Epic pic mate

 

[newbielives]

Therefore not in game racing graphics

Of course you weren't, because that statement is false

The replays are indeed using the same graphics engine, just at 30FPS and highest level of detail, as opposed to the 60FPS and lowered level of detail during gameplay.

 

[ImaRobot]

Therefore not in game racing graphics

If you want to do pic comparison which are NOT EVEN in-game racing graphics, we should be doing them on same track same car same speed same weather. Even the replays in Forza4 are not using the same In-Game racing graphics engine, so it doesn't count. Same as GT's TV camera mode in replay doesn't count, but the cockpit replay is ok as it's using the same in-game racing graphics engine.

Then why even try to compare the both, if by your logic, you will never be able to because replays are not "in game racing graphics."

 

[Scaff]

Therefore not in game racing graphics

Not quite what you said for the majority of your original post...

I was just trying to make a stupid argument over the original stupid argument.
If you want to do pic comparison which are NOT EVEN in-game racing graphics, we should be doing them on same track same car same speed same weather. Even the replays in Forza4 are not using the same In-Game racing graphics engine, so it doesn't count. Same as GT's TV camera mode in replay doesn't count, but the cockpit replay is ok as it's using the same in-game racing graphics engine.

You mentioned both graphics as a single term and graphics engine (twice), now it is the exact same graphics engine, simply operating under differing circumstances (changed LOD and FPS), but its still the same engine.

To be honest is sounds an awful lot like sematics, its the same graphics engine.


Scaff

 

[newbielives]

That's my point if you are going to compare them do it with in game racing graphics. In GT5 the cockpit view replay is exactly the same as in game graphics, but for Forza you will need to do a live capture of you actually playing the game to get proper in game racing graphics

Then why even try to compare the to, if by your logic, you will never be able to because replays are not "in game racing graphics."

Yes it's semantics, I'm talking about comparing in-game racing graphics, perhaps my use of graphics engine was incorrect, but I want to get across the visual settings are not the same in-game vs replay in Forza

Not quite what you said for the majority of your original post...



You mentioned both graphics as a single term and graphics engine (twice), now it is the exact same graphics engine, simply operating under differing circumstances (changed LOD and FPS), but its still the same engine.

To be honest is sounds an awful lot like sematics, its the same graphics engine.


Scaff

 

[Scaff]

Yes it's semantics, I'm talking about comparing in-game racing graphics, perhaps my use of graphics engine was incorrect, but I want to get across the visual settings are not the same in-game vs replay in Forza

That's fine, however I'm sure you will agree that by using the two terms interchangeably didn't make it clear exactly which you were discussing

That's my point if you are going to compare them do it with in game racing graphics. In GT5 the cockpit view replay is exactly the same as in game graphics, but for Forza you will need to do a live capture of you actually playing the game to get proper in game racing graphics

I've not personally heard this before, do you happen to have a source for that.

Oh - please stop double posting. Your not alone doing it in this thread, so this applies to all, its a pain having to clear them so can you all please use the edit button in future or the multi quote tool (the speech bubble button).

Ta

Scaff

 

[Luminis]

Therefore not in game racing graphics

Graphics =!= graphic engine.

That said, the replay graphics aren't the same as the in-race graphics, unless you are hotlapping on your own, at which point the car is at full level of detail, anyways. In that regard, both games are the same: Neither of them does look its best unless you are hotlapping on your own.

In GT5, it's because there's always some sort of ugly standard car coming up, blocky shadows or rain being visible on someone elses car, and so on. In FM4, it's because your own car is on a lower level of detail.

 

[hennessey86]

Graphics =!= graphic engine.

That said, the replay graphics aren't the same as the in-race graphics, unless you are hotlapping on your own, at which point the car is at full level of detail, anyways. In that regard, both games are the same: Neither of them does look its best unless you are hotlapping on your own.

In GT5, it's because there's always some sort of ugly standard car coming up, blocky shadows or rain being visible on someone elses car, and so on. In FM4, it's because your own car is on a lower level of detail.

The exterior of the cars is all ways at the same level of detail, however when there are multiple cars on track the engine blacks out the interior of the car. The exterior is always at full graphical potential

 

[newbielives]

Sorry about double posting, I just usually quote reply quote reply.
Regarding the gt5 cockpit view replays being the same, if you actually play GT5 still, you'll see it's identical. However there have been odd occurrences where the in-game race graphics actually look better than the replay eg the car in front hits the railing, sparks come flying off, but when you watch it in replay there is like a 50/50 chance that you won't see the sparks.

That's fine, however I'm sure you will agree that by using the two terms interchangeably didn't make it clear exactly which you were discussing



I've not personally heard this before, do you happen to have a source for that.

Oh - please stop double posting. Your not alone doing it in this thread, so this applies to all, its a pain having to clear them so can you all please use the edit button in future or the multi quote tool (the speech bubble button).

Ta

Scaff

 

[Scaff]

Sorry about double posting, I just usually quote reply quote reply.
Regarding the gt5 cockpit view replays being the same, if you actually play GT5 still, you'll see it's identical. However there have been odd occurrences where the in-game race graphics actually look better than the replay eg the car in front hits the railing, sparks come flying off, but when you watch it in replay there is like a 50/50 chance that you won't see the sparks.

So its based on your own observations, ok.

I do still play GT5; fired it up last night, did the update, bought the new car pack, bought the new track.

Did one acceleration test with the Aventador,one high speed run with it and had a play around in practice to see the track at night.

As far as the track goes it looks pretty at night and I can see it being good for photos, but the nasty shadows seem to be back with a bit of a vengeance in daytime shots at Route X.

I will confess that I only played around with the Aventador before heading to FM4 to drive it. The GT5 model looks a little better, but its not by a massive margin. However sound wise and to drive I think I will stick with FM4.







Scaff

 

[JoeMaPampang]

So its based on your own observations, ok.

I do still play GT5; fired it up last night, did the update, bought the new car pack, bought the new track.

Did one acceleration test with the Aventador,one high speed run with it and had a play around in practice to see the track at night.

As far as the track goes it looks pretty at night and I can see it being good for photos, but the nasty shadows seem to be back with a bit of a vengeance in daytime shots at Route X.

I will confess that I only played around with the Aventador before heading to FM4 to drive it. The GT5 model looks a little better, but its not by a massive margin. However sound wise and to drive I think I will stick with FM4.

Scaff

I agree with you Scaff. I did the same, the lighting in gt5 is just a bit better. As for driving feel, immersion and sound FM4 is a huge step ahead though.

 

[JoeMaPampang]

Woops

 

[newbielives]

I agree sound in GT5 is weak. I would love to hear the reasons why the sounds sucks so bad. Is it some kind of don't disturb the neighbors japanese thing? Or does he want the squeeks to convey grip and speed better? It just doesn't make sense how he doesn't notice how bad GT5 sounds after coming in the office from driving some Beast at the race track.

 

[artboy76]

Really....tell me where it said that there was going to be a premium jag xjr9 in the release of Gt5. You paid for 🤬

Alos you triple posted.

And no its not a bad tv set up with bad video capture.... click the HD button lol.



The truly sad part is that you did not even pay for it.



Yes. Why? Are you mad that Forza actually looks incredibly unrealistic. The fact you are relying on personal attacks kind of tells me that you have no informative response to the post implying to me that you can not rebute to it with any hint of logical sense at all.

It's your insistence that forza 4 inferior to Gt5 but yet given evidence of standard cars, that god awful lotus Carlton clip, the dire sounds, the bad front end design and poor digital sound track from a 1980s arcade racer , you just chose to ignore all of that and bager on about premium cars..

also my game on the reverse says "1000 accurately detailed cars".

 

[rocketcaron]

I play GT5 with the bumper view and FM4 with the hood view.

From these points of view, both games look fantastic. Even though they are fun toys I don't give much importance to photomode or car select screen graphic quality because I buy these games to actually PLAY THEM.

So it comes down to immersion and at that, FM4 beats GT5 on a majority of aspects. Sounds (engine, tires, contacts with other cars or walls), force feedback (through a Fanatec wheel anyway) and car selection all makes for a superior realistic driving experience. And THIS is always to be worth much, much more in my evaluation of this kind of game than graphics alone.

GT5 is still a wonderful game that needs a big overhaul thats all.

 

[artboy76]

I play GT5 with the bumper view and FM4 with the hood view.

From these points of view, both games look fantastic. Even though they are fun toys I don't give much importance to photomode or car select screen graphic quality because I buy these games to actually PLAY THEM.

So it comes down to immersion and at that, FM4 beats GT5 on a majority of aspects. Sounds (engine, tires, contacts with other cars or walls), force feedback (through a Fanatec wheel anyway) and car selection all makes for a superior realistic driving experience. And THIS is always to be worth much, much more in my evaluation of this kind of game than graphics alone.

GT5 is still a wonderful game that needs a big overhaul thats all.

About bang on the money that.
Problem is that for example with GT5 it may have parts that are seminal, like say nurb'ring in a premium car. But that alone can't draw me back enough. See I have limited game time anyway but Forza isn't just a few great moments, it a game, it drags you in if you let it and in there you find so much, too much, to keep you hooked. there's no gaping flaws like standard cars and it makes me want to dive in for the ride, nothing can compete with that, do Gt5 like shift 2 and race pro is consigned to "the odd play" just for the things it does well.... but as a whole, Forza smashes it.. simple.

 

[rocketcaron]

About bang on the money that.
Problem is that for example with GT5 it may have parts that are seminal, like say nurb'ring in a premium car. But that alone can't draw me back enough. See I have limited game time anyway but Forza isn't just a few great moments, it a game, it drags you in if you let it and in there you find so much, too much, to keep you hooked. there's no gaping flaws like standard cars and it makes me want to dive in for the ride, nothing can compete with that, do Gt5 like shift 2 and race pro is consigned to "the odd play" just for the things it does well.... but as a whole, Forza smashes it.. simple.

Especially since T10 took care of the steering wheel mapping, the physics and force feedback as a whole are now superior to GT5.

Why? Suspension and weight transfer is still better represented in GT but not good enough to beat the tire model that Forza's got now. Combined with supreme force feedback (GT don't even represent understeer with a Fanatec wheel) it makes the experience that much more involving.

Does Logitech or Thrustmaster wheels represent understeer (Wheel becomes loose when loosing traction on the front wheels) on GT5??

 

[I'm Motarded]

I will confess that I only played around with the Aventador before heading to FM4 to drive it. The GT5 model looks a little better, but its not by a massive margin. However sound wise and to drive I think I will stick with FM4.


Scaff

Looking at those photos, it gives the impression the opposite is true. The GT5 model looks to be low LOD/poly with straight edges where there shouldn't be, and for all the 'cartoony' talk being bandied around in this thread, it's GT5 that looks it here. It's not just the car either, the tarmac paint markings look terrible, that can't be fixed with photo setting as it's so close up. Maybe photoshop?!

Funny how good/bad things can look if not caught after they not had time to 'put on their make-up'.

 

[t.o.]

Especially since T10 took care of the steering wheel mapping, the physics and force feedback as a whole are now superior to GT5.

Why? Suspension and weight transfer is still better represented in GT but not good enough to beat the tire model that Forza's got now. Combined with supreme force feedback (GT don't even represent understeer with a Fanatec wheel) it makes the experience that much more involving.

Does Logitech or Thrustmaster wheels represent understeer (Wheel becomes loose when loosing traction on the front wheels) on GT5??

Personally I think it's a wash in that department. The last time I played GT5 race cars exhibited exaggerated weight transfer visually compared to real life vids I've watched. Whereas FM4 very closely resembles what I've seen in real life vids. Other cars I can't really comment on except for the 87 Civic SI (or whatever model it is in GT5). I owned that car in real life and the race model in GT5 had more weight transfer than my regular street version of the car. Seems to be off to me since the race version would most certainly have better parts than the jalopy I was driving.

 

[rocketcaron]

Personally I think it's a wash in that department. The last time I played GT5 race cars exhibited exaggerated weight transfer visually compared to real life vids I've watched. Whereas FM4 very closely resembles what I've seen in real life vids. Other cars I can't really comment on except for the 87 Civic SI (or whatever model it is in GT5). I owned that car in real life and the race model in GT5 had more weight transfer than my regular street version of the car. Seems to be off to me since the race version would most certainly have better parts than the jalopy I was driving.

I'm not talking about visible body roll, more about weight transfer that affects the car behaviour. I understand that body roll is an effect of weight transfer but even if its visually incorrect in GT, I think from a 1st person perspective and how the car react GT5 is a little bit better.

An exception would be with RWD street cars where when you are oversteering at more than a quarter of steering lock the pendulum effect is waayyyyy exagerated. So its not without flaws.

Also, loss of traction when hitting a bump in a turn (especially on the 'Ring) is I think better represented. That is surprising to a point considering how ''simplistic'' PD tire model is but its probably more of an added effect than something that is integrated in the tire model. Completely speculating here though...

 

[buickgnx88]

Scaff

There's only two things that I see GT5 did better (according to these pics only):
1) Tires actually look like they're resting on the ground
2) Tires actually look like they fit on the wheels.

 

[newbielives]

Lol this makes me laugh, how in the world do you think the bottom forza4 pic looks better? It's almost a glaring example of how GT5 almost looks real where Forza's model has a cartoon sheen. Still we are talking about photomode and not actual in game racing.

Looking at those photos, it gives the impression the opposite is true. The GT5 model looks to be low LOD/poly with straight edges where there shouldn't be, and for all the 'cartoony' talk being bandied around in this thread, it's GT5 that looks it here. It's not just the car either, the tarmac paint markings look terrible, that can't be fixed with photo setting as it's so close up. Maybe photoshop?!

Funny how good/bad things can look if not caught after they not had time to 'put on their make-up'.

 

[t.o.]

Lol this makes me laugh, how in the world do you think the bottom forza4 pic looks better? It's almost a glaring example of how GT5 almost looks real where Forza's model has a cartoon sheen. Still we are talking about photomode and not actual in game racing.

This is a glaring example of something alright but not what you're talking about. Sorry buddy but BOTH of them are looking right about the same. One is just using different lighting effects (looks like some blooming going on in GT5) than the other. I've seen GT5 when it looks it's best and THIS ain't it.

But for you to say "GT5 almost looks real" where "Forza has a cartoon sheen" is definitely a glaring example of something.

 

[ImaRobot]

Real life looks to cartoony, but what im wondering is why is GT5s color so flat and bland, kinda like matte paint or something, even the rims.

 

[shawtyoner]

Pretty close to real life if you ask me LOL!!

 

[imported_JJ72]

haha, on a serious note those are pre-rendered.

The GT5 pic in the comparison shot almost looks like it has normal errors on the nose. and the shadows!

 

[Scaff]

Lol this makes me laugh, how in the world do you think the bottom forza4 pic looks better? It's almost a glaring example of how GT5 almost looks real where Forza's model has a cartoon sheen. Still we are talking about photomode and not actual in game racing.

Would you care to share how the nice jagged shadows look real on the GT5 model just below the badge and on the lower bumper nearest the camera.

I photographed cars for well over 25 years as a hobby and never once seen a shadow like that, and that's without looking at the bloody awful textures on the tarmac in the GT5 shot.

Neither look real, and I gave the nod to the GT5 model when I posted these, but the simple fact that you are able to look past things like this says an awful lot.

As for banging on about in-game vs replay, that was not the point of posting these, I simply used them to illustrate my comments regarding the GT5 DLC and a comparison between the same car in GT5 and FM4. Replay shots actually smooth over the shadows making them a little less obvious, in this particular situation 'in-game' GT5 looked considerably worse.


Scaff