Forza Motorsport 4 - General Discussion

[buttsneeze]

I'll check and see if it does, hang on.

As for the thread it hasn't been approved yet.

If you're still under moderation then it'll likely never be approved. They don't take kindly to dissenting opinions.

 

[Spagetti69]

I can't play a game that does that, going to cancel pre order.

Shame.

 

[buttsneeze]

I can't play a game that does that, going to cancel pre order.

Shame.

There's a good chance we can get them to patch it, I think. I mean I have a direct line to the lead developer via Facebook, and I just sent him the most solid evidence possible.

Anyone with a Forzamotorsport.net account that ISN'T under moderation, please reply to this thread confirming the presence of the steering assist and asking for it to be fixed. http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/forums/22/4823643/ShowThread.aspx#4823643

 

[Spagetti69]

There's a good chance we can get them to patch it, I think. I mean I have a direct line to the lead developer via Facebook, and I just sent him the most solid evidence possible.

If it's patched, fine. I'm not dropping any money until it is.
Either way I won't be getting on release.

 

[Terronium-12]

No, it isn't an issue with a pad but I'll be getting the 458 wheel when that launches so it's a problem for me either way.

Even if that weren't the case it's still incredibly shoddy to say one thing, and the game proves another. And I should mention that even though the steering doesn't "fix" itself when oversteering, it's still rather easy to countersteer.

 

[II-zOoLoGy-II]

There's a good chance we can get them to patch it, I think. I mean I have a direct line to the lead developer via Facebook, and I just sent him the most solid evidence possible.

Anyone with a Forzamotorsport.net account that ISN'T under moderation, please reply to this thread confirming the presence of the steering assist and asking for it to be fixed. http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/forums/22/4823643/ShowThread.aspx#4823643

I am under moderation but I will reply regardless.

 

[Spagetti69]

I honestly can not see it being fixed.
99% are pad users. Fanatec are in the minority.

Realistically any sort of steering fix patched this late into a game.
(Probably 6 weeks from now) would also warrant a leaderboard wipe.

Better to keep 99% happy and piss off 1% than the other way around.

Just my thoughts. Don't build yourself up for a fix.

Could someone make a Vid from chase cam or from a suitable view to see the tires.

Not sure if that's possible.

 

[Lain]

Replied to that thread.

I honestly can not see it being fixed.
99% are pad users. Fanatec are in the minority.

Realistically any sort of steering fix patched this late into a game.
(Probably 6 weeks from now) would also warrant a leaderboard wipe.

Better to keep 99% happy and piss off 1% than the other way around.

Just my thoughts. Don't build yourself up for a fix.

Could someone make a Vid from chase cam or from a suitable view to see the tires.

Not sure if that's possible.

I think it'll be fixed. It's should be an easy fix, Turn 10 probably doesn't want to alienate the hardcore crowd even if they're only 1% of their customers, pad users shouldn't be concerned with simulation steering at all, and Fanatec's the supplier of the official Forza wheel.

 

[amar212]

Steering Assist is a great problem and I hope all of us will become vocal enough to get them to patch it.

 

[Terronium-12]

Replied to that thread.



I think it'll be fixed. It's should be an easy fix, Turn 10 probably doesn't want to alienate the hardcore crowd even if they're only 1% of their customers, pad users shouldn't be concerned with simulation steering at all, and Fanatec's the supplier of the official Forza wheel.

I know why you say that, but I'm gonna disagree on my own accord anyway. I don't want the game filtering input for me; if the car is going to spin then let it spin. I've spun out before.

How the hell else am I supposed to learn proper countersteering technique?

 

[Spagetti69]

Replied to that thread.

I think it'll be fixed. It's should be an easy fix, Turn 10 probably doesn't want to alienate the hardcore crowd even if they're only 1% of their customers, pad users shouldn't be concerned with simulation steering at all, and Fanatec's the supplier of the official Forza wheel.

The assist looks more pronounced than Forza3. Which TBH just looked like it was going through treacle.

This assist, which only seems to trigger whilst countering a slide.
Looks like it has been implemented for an unresponsive control system. Kinnect, or the new wireless wheel.

Actually this would almost definitely be needed for Kinnect which has an inherent lag anyhow. Otherwise Kinnect users would never recover a slide.

Would much rather see the outside view of the tires to see what is going on.

Demo is out today at some point. Will do some testing of my own.

 

[amar212]

Actually this would almost definitely be needed for Kinnect which has an inherent lag anyhow. Otherwise Kinnect users would never recover a slide.

That is the reason why there are 5 different "simulation" settings in the first place.

Having the assist forced in the full-simulation setting is just a wrong way to go. And after the backslash we've al been through since Forza 3 - from banning us from official forums, deleting posts, playing ignore-game on other forums, etc.. - they've should have learn to respect the dedicated community.

I don't know, more I think about this, it becomes a greater issue again.

 

[Lain]

I know why you say that, but I'm gonna disagree on my own accord anyway. I don't want the game filtering input for me; if the car is going to spin then let it spin. I've spun out before.

How the hell else am I supposed to learn proper countersteering technique?

What I meant was that linear steering input with a tiny thumbstick is a little bit... insane sounding.

I agree that the game shouldn't try to do things like amplify your countersteer inputs when assists are off, even for pad users.

 

[II-zOoLoGy-II]

Someone really shouldn't be using simulation steering with Kinect to begin with lol. The game accelerates and brakes for you.

Well, good luck in your adventures buttsneeze and everyone else attempting to get this crap fixed.

If you need an extra name somewhere to voice a complaint just let me know. I will be happy to do it.

 

[Lain]

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if this steering assist was just accidentally left in.

It only affects some wheels, so maybe they thought they disabled it for everyone, but they actually only disabled it for certain input devices.

 

[II-zOoLoGy-II]

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if this steering assist was just accidentally left in.

It only affects some wheels, so maybe they thought they disabled it for everyone, but they actually only disabled it for certain input devices.

I hope that is the case. However, I highly doubt it.

This is a pretty big topic. And to just forget about it?

It was constantly brought up in FM3 and T10 even told the community there would be no steering assists whatsoever. I don't think they are that stupid; rather they think that we are.

I am off to bed. I hope to hear of glorious victory against the steering assist demon tomorrow. Good luck.

 

[HBK]

I don't get it. Why would they announce the removal of the assist and add a specific new option for it if the option basically does nothing ? Dunno, sounds fishy. Hopefully it's just some kind of glitch which can get patched, especially since it seems to depend on the wheel brand (if I understood right).

 

[Spagetti69]

Someone really shouldn't be using simulation steering with Kinect to begin with lol. The game accelerates and brakes for you.
/QUOTE]

Edit spagetti said.

I don't have the demo. Also I never new about 5 different settings.

Clutching at straws I guess to try and find reasoning or an excuse as to how this could be an error on their part and be easily fixed.

The only way to get anything done is with your wallet.
Alas too many sheep will buy it.

Kudos to turn 10 for releasing a demo for people to find this error. For a company accused of denying there fans a voice (which I'm not doubting)they put the evidence in your face. Lol.

 

[amar212]

especially since it seems to depend on the wheel brand (if I understood right).

It does not depend on the wheel brand to be clear, but on actual steering degrees selected.

Of course, since only Fanatec wheel have an option to select 900-degree-steering, you could say it is brand related, but it is really a degree-related.

Yoritomo - the guy that made that "proof" video - have just described this overthere on NeoGaf:

I think I know what is happening with simulation steering.

The game is made to accommodate both 270 degree wheels and 900 degree wheels. For perfectly understandable reasons even in simulation mode the steering needs to be speed sensitive for 270 degree wheels. And by this same token when you begin to correct a slide you need to more accurately be able to dial in more opposite lock than the speed sensitive limitation would normally allow you. So for a situation where you have to counter steer it snaps back to a more 1 to 1 ratio purely in the range of the opposite lock of the vehicle.

For 900 degree wheels it would not actually have to be speed sensitive and it isn't when you turn in. The problem occurs when you go into a situation where you have to correct a slide, this can be at high speed or low speed. It does the same thing for 900 degree wheels!! Anyone with a fanatec can confirm this. Hit up on the d-pad on the steering wheel and telemetry will pop up. Verify you have the full 900 degrees of rotation (it maps the center to be more sensitive than the rest, which is fine ie the first 90 degrees when on 900 degree mode will be about 45 degrees of lock in the telemetry, while the remaining 360 degrees of rotation are required to go all the way to 135 of lock. Telemetry maps 1 to 1 for 270 degree wheels and has progressive linearity in 900 degree wheels.)

Now here's the rub. Go into a wide long corner and swing into a bit of oversteer. Now grab a bit of opposite lock but undercorrect slightly and pin the accelerator so you'll slowly rotate into a full spin. Keep the wheel in that EXACT SAME POSITION. You'll notice that when you counter steer your 900 degree wheel all of a sudden has a seemingly 1 to 1 mapping with the steering wheel in telemetry while you're in a slide (as long as you're steering in the direction of the slide), as soon as you either hit a wall or your slip angle gets to the point where your wheels would effectively be travelling backwards you'll notice the wheel in telemetry will SNAP back to where it should be for a 900 degree wheel.

900 degree wheels STILL HAVE SPEED SENSITIVE COUNTER STEER. It still seems somewhat direct with a little bit of fudge and the feeling of a full assist is gone from FM3 but there needs to be another option for full linear steering with 900 degree wheels. It's obviously possible as the telemetry snaps back to linear as soon as a situation of counter steer is over.

Please turn 10 LET US TURN THIS OFF. I didn't buy a fanatec to be coddled. If I wanted to only use 270 degrees of rotation when countersteering I wouldn't be playing with a 900 degree wheel.

I can also confirm that the angle of the front wheel correlate to the telemetry so it isn't just a telemetry display but, as soon as the telemetry snaps from speed corrected countersteer, to normal linear 900 degree mode both the wheels on the front of the vehicle (as seen in third person view) and the steering wheel telemetry SNAP to the lower angle that would normally correlate with the 900 degree wheel.

 

[Terronium-12]

Stupid. I'm already beginning to despise an aspect of the game. A game I haven't even really played yet.

Beyond the demo that is.

 

[Hotspitta]

 

[Spagetti69]

Hotspitta. Your brilliant.

Great timing. Like turning up at a funeral with a party hat and a six pack. Lol.

 

[JJ72]

I think it is something they can patch, and given how big a deal they made simulation steering out to be they have every reason to patch it.

 

[phil-t]

I think it is something they can patch, and given how big a deal they made simulation steering out to be they have every reason to patch it.

I hope so.. I am kind of glad in a way that some people showed what the actual 'assist' is..

I spent a while last night characterising it, and absolutely see where people are coming from, on a technical level, it's jumping/amplifying your countersteering input to something much larger and holding it there..

Of course, this largely only applies when you are in a quite aggressive slide, or messing around, or drifting etc, it's not really something normal drivers are going to 'feel'..

But I also saw the 'speed sensitive' steering is still present, something that bugged me more as a hot lapper, again, something I wasn't expecting in 'simulation' mode..

 

[amar212]

But I also saw the 'speed sensitive' steering is still present...

And non-ABS braking *buffer* is also still present to be honest, same as it was in FM3.

Non-ABS braking was perfectly portrayed in Forza 2. This FM4 demo introduced the same buffer as FM3.

 

[HBK]

It does not depend on the wheel brand to be clear, but on actual steering degrees selected.

Of course, since only Fanatec wheel have an option to select 900-degree-steering, you could say it is brand related, but it is really a degree-related.

Yoritomo - the guy that made that "proof" video - have just described this overthere on NeoGaf:

Ok, I think I get it, thanks 👍

I sincerely hope this is some kind of mistake (on T10 part). I really despise being mislead by blatantly false information.

 

[alucard0712]

Replied to that thread.



I think it'll be fixed. It's should be an easy fix, Turn 10 probably doesn't want to alienate the hardcore crowd even if they're only 1% of their customers, pad users shouldn't be concerned with simulation steering at all, and Fanatec's the supplier of the official Forza wheel.

Permanent assists are just stupid! It can be an option, and it's can be called option for a reason!

I'm a pad user but why the hell I don't want an option for turning it off in a SIMULATION game?!

 

[Hotspitta]

Hotspitta. Your brilliant.

Great timing. Like turning up at a funeral with a party hat and a six pack. Lol.

Hahahahaha
Well in that case let's get wasted.

 

[Luminis]

Its not worth buying a 360 for it.

No game is, in my opinion... As long as Blizzard doesn't release Diablo as a console exclusive game

Well, yes, and no. It's Fanatec specific but it's 100% the fault of the game, not the wheel. The way the game detects the wheel and interprets steering input from the Fanatec is the issue.

That's why I've refrained from debating the whole thing so far... Issues like that could potentially be fixed in the final release.

It would suck tremendously if that problem wasn't fixed for the release version

Like last time with F3. Just wait until banning people from the official forum starts because mentioning the problem.

You know, I've mentioned a lot of problems with FM3 on FM.net (mostly the AWD issue time and time again) and never got banned. Wonder what I've been doing differently...

There's a good chance we can get them to patch it, I think.

Let's hope so.

Anyone with a Forzamotorsport.net account that ISN'T under moderation, please reply to this thread confirming the presence of the steering assist and asking for it to be fixed. http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/forums/22/4823643/ShowThread.aspx#4823643

I'll post it later today, too.

Edit:
Here's my post:

I've read about the permanent steering assist issue on another forum, so I thought I'd voice my thoughts here as well...

First off, I'm not sure whether this issue made it into the final game. From what I've read, it's a problem with Fanatec wheels/900° steering, so it might be one of those bugs that are typically weeded out from the code just before the game goes live - which might have been after the release of the demo. Someone with some insight clarifying that would also be very nice.

It's a repost, most likely, but here's a video of the whole thing.

This isn't going to be that big a deal to me personally, probably, and the majority of palyers are going to be playing with a pad, where simulation steering seems to work as it's supposed to, but I still think it'd be quite important to fix this - if only to prevent future commotion about something that's just unnecessary. It'd be a shame to see FM4 getting berated because of the same issue being evident that was in FM3 - especially since the simulation steering option was specifically intended to prevent that stuff.

Also, a lot of people seem to be very, very happy with FM4's new physics. An interfering assist that can't be turned off would just cause people to assume that the physics would be worse than they are. Something that, I'm sure, T10 would have an interest in preventing from happening.

Hotspitta. Your brilliant.

Great timing. Like turning up at a funeral with a party hat and a six pack. Lol.

Good one

 

[PzR Slim]

I too hope it's fixed but lets not get over excited here. Something similar (worse in some peoples opinion) was present in FM3 and most of us massively enjoyed that game. It's also hard to argue that the driving in FM4 and particularly the ffb is not a huge improvement on FM3. Yes it sucks that this is still present after they said it wasn't but I know that I'm going to get hours of fun out of FM4. And really in normal racing situations this demon is not even going to rear it's ugly head.