Forza Motorsport 4 - General Discussion

  • Thread starter Thread starter Mr Latte
  • 4,624 comments
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What Version Do You Intend To Buy

  • Limited Collectors Edition

    Votes: 224 68.3%

  • Standard Edition

    Votes: 61 18.6%

  • Undecided

    Votes: 43 13.1%
  • Total voters
    328
PzR Slim
It's also hard to argue that the driving in FM4 and particularly the ffb is not a huge improvement on FM3.
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That is certainly not even remotely true because overall implementation of force feedback effect and actual sensation of tire-grip and nuances are greatly improved over FM3.

I am simply amazed by how much improvement was made in that particular area because constraints of XID force feedback. Force Feedback in FM4 - if judging by the demo - is nothing less than greatest ever conceived on X360.

However, it has nothing to do with this steering assist which is a problem and will be a problem, especially in online races where it will again make a great difference among both controller and wheel users.

Also, it will make a someone's effort and talent in driving less important because everyone's mistakes will be less pronounced and competitiveness will suffer as result.
 
amar212
That is certainly not even remotely true because overall implementation of force feedback effect and actual sensation of tire-grip and nuances are greatly improved over FM3.

I am simply amazed by how much improvement was made in that particular area because constraints of XID force feedback. Force Feedback in FM4 - if judging by the demo - is nothing less than greatest ever conceived on X360.

However, it has nothing to do with this steering assist which is a problem and will be a problem, especially in online races where it will again make a great difference among both controller and wheel users.

Also, it will make a someone's effort and talent in driving less important because everyone's mistakes will be less pronounced and competitiveness will suffer as result.
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Maybe I didn't word it very well Amar. I meant FM4 is much better than FM3 ;)

I'm not sure it's going to affect the racing I do. I race with very skilled drivers and most of what we do is touring style comps. You very seldom seeing the kind of car angles needed to produce this assist in the racing we do so, for me at least, this is not going to have much of and effect. For people who like to drift it's a completely different story however.
 
Oh, I see - than we understand each other perfectly regarding FF 👍 ;)

But I stand by my opinion that persistence of such assist will hurt competitiveness through many areas.
 
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amar212
Oh, I see - than we understand each other perfectly regarding FF 👍 ;)

But I stand by my opinion that persistence of such assist will hurt competitiveness through many areas.
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I'm not sure about 'many areas',

It only occurs when you have large rotations and put small amounts of countersteer in, then it amplifies this, I think for hotlappers, general racing, you aren't driving like this 'competitively'?

I imagine drifting is made easier, or maybe even slightly erratic since some are claiming it often makes it worse rather then better..

But it's unwelcome isn't it, and sadly, despite all the lovely improvements, it's really negating it all in people's minds..
 
phil-t
I'm not sure about 'many areas',

It only occurs when you have large rotations and put small amounts of countersteer in, then it amplifies this, I think for hotlappers, general racing, you aren't driving like this 'competitively'?

I imagine drifting is made easier, or maybe even slightly erratic since some are claiming it often makes it worse rather then better..

But it's unwelcome isn't it, and sadly, despite all the lovely improvements, it's really negating it all in people's minds..
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I did some pretty extensive testing on this last night and I found that the usual car angles that would happen in hotlapping and general racing did not result in the assist kicking in. It really is just at the extreme car angles that the assist shows itself. But like I said above it was present in FM3 and I got an awful lot of enjoyment out of that so don't expect this to be any worse. I'm hoping this is just a demo bug because normal didn't feel any different to simulation when I tried it. What about you crazy?
 
In my experience it happens a lot. Every time your car loses grip it kicks in, which happens very often, especially with the new physics. No matter how clean you drive, you're going to encounter it.
 
buttsneeze
In my experience it happens a lot. Every time your car loses grip it kicks in, which happens very often, especially with the new physics. No matter how clean you drive, you're going to encounter it.
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Like I said that just isn't my experience. At small angles it didn't kick in. In fact I was able to do some small drifting from side to side in the Ferrari without the assist happening. It obviously wasn't the lock to lock massive tyre smoke drifting that drifters are looking for but for how I'm going to use the game it looked to be ok.
 
PzR Slim
Like I said that just isn't my experience. At small angles it didn't kick in. In fact I was able to do some small drifting from side to side in the Ferrari without the assist happening. It obviously wasn't the lock to lock massive tyre smoke drifting that drifters are looking for but for how I'm going to use the game it looked to be ok.
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Trust me, it's affecting it. Maybe you aren't noticing it as much because it's a small drift but it's increasing your counter steer angle. Every time the rear wheels lose grip it increases your counter steer angle. For someone like me who's very used to direct steering in PC sims it's very disconcerting when it applies extra opposite lock, especially in small transitional slides.
 
buttsneeze
Trust me, it's affecting it. Maybe you aren't noticing it as much because it's a small drift but it's increasing your counter steer angle. Every time the rear wheels lose grip it increases your counter steer angle. For someone like me who's very used to direct steering in PC sims it's very disconcerting when it applies extra opposite lock, especially in small transitional slides.
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I trust myself thanks very much. I race PC sims also, subscribe to iracing, netkar pro, FVA, the full lot so lets not go down the route of you don't know what your talking about ;)
 
PzR Slim
I trust myself thanks very much. I race PC sims also, subscribe to iracing, netkar pro, FVA, the full lot so lets not go down the route of you don't know what your talking about ;)
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I've thoroughly tested the steering assist and know exactly when it's working and when it isn't. Let's not try to defend it and pretend it's not important.
 
PzR Slim
I did some pretty extensive testing on this last night and I found that the usual car angles that would happen in hotlapping and general racing did not result in the assist kicking in. It really is just at the extreme car angles that the assist shows itself. But like I said above it was present in FM3 and I got an awful lot of enjoyment out of that so don't expect this to be any worse. I'm hoping this is just a demo bug because normal didn't feel any different to simulation when I tried it. What about you crazy?
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I'm glad you said this Slim, I tried all 3 modes, and couldn't feel any difference when just sliding the car around either.. I'm quietly hoping it's a bug..

buttsneeze
Trust me, it's affecting it. Maybe you aren't noticing it as much because it's a small drift but it's increasing your counter steer angle. Every time the rear wheels lose grip it increases your counter steer angle. For someone like me who's very used to direct steering in PC sims it's very disconcerting when it applies extra opposite lock, especially in small transitional slides.
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From my own tests, I agree with Slim, you have to have a reasonable angle of rotation before the countersteering assist visibly kicks in, unless we are talking different assists here..
The 'test' that I found isolated it best is (set to 900 degrees on the wheel, and confirmed in telemetry I have 900 degrees), I just fishtail with jabs of the throttle side to side using only about 45 degrees of steering input (Shows as 5-10% on the steering wheel in telemetry), I increase the angle of rotation until you suddenly see your small countersteering angle (45 degrees) jump to about 540 degrees (Just a guess), If I hold the steering input at this, and let the car just slide, you then see it suddenly snap back to 1:1 at some point..

What I don't see is this occuring all the time if the angle of rotation is small..

When we say small, I mean 10-20 degrees of rotation? something like that..
 
buttsneeze
I've thoroughly tested the steering assist and know exactly when it's working and when it isn't. Let's not try to defend it and pretend it's not important.
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I'm not defending anything I've already said it's a huge issue for some. So you can cut that crap out before you start. I'm relaying my findings from the testing I did last night. You can choose to not believe me but don't make accusations you have no way of backing up.
 
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phil-t
I'm glad you said this Slim, I tried all 3 modes, and couldn't feel any difference when just sliding the car around either.. I'm quietly hoping it's a bug..


From my own tests, I agree with Slim, you have to have a reasonable angle of rotation before the countersteering assist visibly kicks in, unless we are talking different assists here..
The 'test' that I found isolated it best is (set to 900 degrees on the wheel, and confirmed in telemetry I have 900 degrees), I just fishtail with jabs of the throttle side to side using only about 45 degrees of steering input (Shows as 5-10% on the steering wheel in telemetry), I increase the angle of rotation until you suddenly see your small countersteering angle (45 degrees) jump to about 540 degrees (Just a guess), If I hold the steering input at this, and let the car just slide, you then see it suddenly snap back to 1:1 at some point..

What I don't see is this occuring all the time if the angle of rotation is small..

When we say small, I mean 10-20 degrees of rotation? something like that..
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Pretty much identical to the testing I did with the same results.
 
amar212
I am simply amazed by how much improvement was made in that particular area because constraints of XID force feedback. Force Feedback in FM4 - if judging by the demo - is nothing less than greatest ever conceived on X360.
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From the little time I had with the demo, I must emphasize this. The FFB is nothing short of awesome. I even think it's (in some ways) better than the FFB in that other game.

PzR Slim
But like I said above it was present in FM3 and I got an awful lot of enjoyment out of that so don't expect this to be any worse.
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I wholeheartedly agree. The existence of the steering assist doesn't bother me THAT much. What bothers me is that it's HIDDEN.

Of course, I'd prefer 100% direct linear steering if possible, but what could prevent me from buying the game is not the existence of the assist but the way Turn10 will handle this "problem".

Edit : I'll try to summarize what I understood so far.

There are two distinct assists (which can apply at the same time).

  1. The speed sensitive non-linear steering assist, which adjusts linearity around the center to be somewhat "logarithmic" (or maybe piecewise linear) at low speeds. Basically, at low speeds, the game makes you steer more than your inputs, and the faster you are, the closer you are to a 1:1 linear ratio.
  2. The counter-steering assist, which increases linearity when counter-steering while trying to recover from a slide. Basically, the game "helps you" counter-steer.
Am I right ?
 
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A couple of days ago I´ve read something about an real life track in the full version of FM4, that is really an suprise. Anybody knows already what track it is?
 
sega freak
:)
*youtube*
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Love how such things always have to start with "Hi, don't be a jackweasle and try this at home. That means you moron." type messages. Never fails to set the mood prior to a good bit of vehicular abuse.
 
MRm7m.png


Don't know how legit this is, because i can't get onto his wall on facebook. It could explain a few things if the icon in the telemetry view is showing the reaction from the ffb in the wheel rather than the actual steering angle.
 
I admit I loved that ad, that almost convinced me to buy an Xbox, but I'm a casual gamer with barely any tine or will to be able to play both my PS3 and an Xbox.
 
James1436
Beautiful job by Turn10 and the folks at Topgear. 👍
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You know, that clip has a really, really strong TG vibe to it - and not just from Jeremy doing the talking. I can't really explain it, but it seems like TG was a lot more involved in that clip than just doing the voiceover.

Which is a good thing.
 

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