Forza Motorsport 4 - General Discussion

[Zer0]

Does anyone have proof of the assist outside of "I said so" because arguments like that just don't hold up.

FM3

In Forza 3, we refined a steering assist to the controller (and to a lesser extent for the wheel) that helped the player countersteer, drift and recover. It slightly modified the player’s steering angle input as well as the rate of steering wheel rotation based on the yaw of the car and the player’s recent inputs. I loved the system for drifting, as it made me feel like a driving god without actually sacrificing our physics accuracy. It made the game easier to drift and recover by just interpreting the player’s input.

[youtubehd]wVkxSZoHbYY[/youtubehd]

FM4
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXVDzyaSlmA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTfJVHhdBgw

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=5964477#post5964477

 

[Bogie 19th]

Not sure if this had been posted already, but this is the first review I've seen

http://www.thesmokingtire.com/2011/forza-4-review/

Read that a little bit ago (one of my favorite sites).

To get down to brass tacks, Forza not only looks and sounds the part but also drives like no other game available. With vehicle dynamics developed directly with Pirelli, using their actual real world test results as data, the physics of the game are simply jaw dropping. Using a force-feedback wheel, you can literally feel the cracks in the pavement as you fly into the first chicane on the Mulsanne straight. One of the best parts of Forza 4 though, is the ability to custom tune your gaming experience. While Forza is equipped with a physics engine bordering on professional simulation, and graphics modeling on par with movie CGI, the game still features a plethora of driver aids, steering and brake assists available, so that even the most casual player can race.

As for the assist:

That video doesn't disprove Greenawalt's claim though.

All it does is prove there is something effecting the wheel in the telemetry. Until we can actually see the effect it has on the wheels, which likely won't be until we can view replays in the full release, I don't see any way to prove anything either way.

EDIT: Tree'd, I was talking about that video before that one, I'm watching the latest one now.

You can confirm it by actually racing the game, and not looking at a video. You can feel the assist is removed.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Who else is getting a Forza T-shirt? Lol.

Very tempted, 13 quid is a bargain and I love the look of the Alps one.

Does anyone have proof of the assist outside of "I said so" because arguments like that just don't hold up.

No real proof, some dodgy video of a steering wheel that changes angle a bit. No actual video footage of the wheels doing anything like what they suggest.

I am going with T10 on this one.

 

[Bogie 19th]

I am going with T10 on this one.

Makes sense. They made the game

 

[FyreandIce]

He didn't debunk anything. The assist is there, period, fact, end of. No matter how much he denies it it isn't going to go away.

Agreed

Yup, it's been debunked officially, 100% by the developers of the game. Enjoy your denial though. Good luck with that

lol, T10 said hat FM2 would look exactly like the screenshots they showed. Fact is they were all bullshots. Actual game looked nothing like them

T10 said that upgrades changed the exhaust note in FM3. Fact is they didn't.

T10 said there was never a Steering assist in FM3 (right up until they had to promote FM4s simulation mode that is) but fact is it was there.

T10 said FM3s gameplay looked identical to it's photomode, guess what happened there?

T10s word means nothing to anyone but the fanboys (guess what category you're in).

Factual evidences vs corporate rhetoric, choose.

T10 also denied the FM3 wheel assists until a few months back when they use them as an excuse to promote the improved handling in FM4.

They are doing exactly the same now. If the handling don't change in the final game I guess they are not going to admit it until FM5.

Some people like to ignore hard facts because it doesn't conform with their skewed reality. The technical term for these people is Fanboys.

Nothing to change, since the assist is not there.

Stop living in denial.

It's not as ridiculous as it was in FM3 but it's still there.

 

[Bogie 19th]

Cool story bro. Enjoy your denial. It's fun watching you squirm BTW, you using the term fanboy is getting old and is against the AUP.

 

[SuperShouden]

Very tempted, 13 quid is a bargain and I love the look of the Alps one.



No real proof, some dodgy video of a steering wheel that changes angle a bit. No actual video footage of the wheels doing anything like what they suggest.

I am going with T10 on this one.

But...Did Turn10 actually admit that the stirring assist was gone completely? I believe Dan mentioned that "simulation steering" had no assists, but that could simply mean no assists like ABS and TCS and stuff. Besides, Dan's the creative director and he loves the countersteer steering assist. That should hint that it's in there somewhere.

 

[MagpieRacer]

But...Did Turn10 actually admit that the stirring assist was gone completely? I believe Dan mentioned that "simulation steering" had no assists, but that could simply mean no assists like ABS and TCS and stuff. Besides, Dan's the creative director and he loves the countersteer steering assist. That should hint that it's in there somewhere.

Yes yes they did, check out the video a few pages back.

 

[II-zOoLoGy-II]

But...Did Turn10 actually admit that the stirring assist was gone completely? I believe Dan mentioned that "simulation steering" had no assists, but that could simply mean no assists like ABS and TCS and stuff. Besides, Dan's the creative director and he loves the countersteer steering assist. That should hint that it's in there somewhere.

ABS and TCS are separate assists not involved in the steering assist. In Under The Hood Part 2 Dan said all assists are disabled in simulation steering mode.

 

[Bogie 19th]

The thing I like about the assist being removed now is also the improved drifting as a result. Loving it.

 

[Eric.]

Really guys, I think this one pretty much proves there's a counter steer assist going on.

You can't just catch a slide like that by turning the wheel some amount less than 90 degrees and hold it there before straightening the wheel. And if the telemetry is what was glitched, as you say, it would have to be a lot more complicated than it is. That steering wheel display should simply be an image that is drawn on the screen and rotated X degrees per Y degrees of the angle of the car's wheels.


I haven't played the demo yet, but supposedly this is gone for the controller. Someone quoted where T10 claimed the simulation removed the steering aid, however that quote uses the word "controller". Now that could of course mean all controller types, or it could just mean the gamepad. Guess what, it seems to be removed for the gamepad.


I never played FM3 with a wheel, but with a controller the steering aid worked by limiting steering lock through turns (which is good...full tilt on the stick does not need to mean full lock, that's for sure), and then increasing that amount of lock when countersteering.

 

[Prosthetic]

The funny thing about this all.. Steering assist has been proven in multiple videos, yet not one single shred of evidence other then corporate billboard stating there is no steering assist.

You can FEEL the steering assist when using a quality wheel not the crappy hunk of plastic that is the 360 controller.

 

[FyreandIce]

Cool story bro. Enjoy your denial. It's fun watching you squirm BTW, you using the term fanboy is getting old and is against the AUP.

Lose argument, post picture.

Lose argument, say cool story bro.

Good game bogie. Come back when you're out of preschool 👍

Just saw this

Great, Dan blocked me on Facebook instead of addressing the issue and answering the question.

It's FM3 all over again.

Problem with the game? We'll just put fingers in our ears, hum loudly and permanently ban you 👍

The funny thing about this all.. Steering assist has been proven in multiple videos, yet not one single shred of evidence other then corporate billboard stating there is no steering assist.

You can FEEL the steering assist when using a quality wheel not the crappy hunk of plastic that is the 360 controller.

Don't worry, there is no proof that it's been removed other than the word from an incredibly untrust worthy source.

And I feel it a lot with a controller. It's not the same auto correct FM3 had, it's more just a speed/sensitivity system that greatly reduces available lock according to what speed you're doing. Once you start sliding, any counter steer is 1:1. It's still assisting you and is quite intrusive. It just takes away any requirement for finesse when using a controller.

 

[Bogie 19th]

Lose argument, say cool story bro.

Good game bogie. Come back when you're out of preschool 👍

I was hoping you enjoyed that. Glad to help!

Problem with the game? We'll just put fingers in our ears, hum loudly and permanently ban you 👍

This is an all new level of fail for Fyre, lol.

The funny thing about this all.. Steering assist has been proven in multiple videos, yet not one single shred of evidence other then corporate billboard stating there is no steering assist.

And yet proven as not having assist by many others in the insidesimracing.tv forums, Forza forums and Forzacentral forums. Not to mention, another video was already posted here showing the assist has been removed.

You can FEEL the steering assist when using a quality wheel not the crappy hunk of plastic that is the 360 controller.

I was using a Fanatec Turbo S wheel, and the lack of assist feels great.

 

[II-zOoLoGy-II]

The funny thing about this all.. Steering assist has been proven in multiple videos, yet not one single shred of evidence other then corporate billboard stating there is no steering assist.

You can FEEL the steering assist when using a quality wheel not the crappy hunk of plastic that is the 360 controller.

Except I can get the steering assist to appear even on the 360 controller.

It is definitely speed sensitive. I believe it is most prevalent in the Cinque.

Go into third person view and look backwards:

At high speeds the wheels simply do not turn to the point that they should be with massive input on either side. The telemetry shows this.

At low speeds all of a sudden you are in full control again of the angle of the front wheels.

It is so obvious I really do not understand how we have people still in denial.

 

[Bogie 19th]

Well, some of us feel the same way, but just the opposite. I would go as far to say, that if some are thinking there is an assist, then GT5 must also have the same assist, because they are now reacting identical.

Of course, after playing with this Fanatec for the testing, it's quite apparent. The wheel in the left corner is not displaying the same thing we are feeling and encountering in the game.

Odd thing for sure.

Here nor there. Dan confirmed it. Whether or not he was lying or not doesn't change the fact that we are apparently having different experiences. That said, it really seems to be a pointless debate now as no conclusion can be reached unless Turn 10 comes back and says they lied or they show us the game code...none of which will happen.

So, next week it is. Hot game in hot hands. That is what is important to me.

 

[II-zOoLoGy-II]

Well, some of us feel the same way, but just the opposite. I would go as far to say, that if some are thinking there is an assist, then GT5 must also have the same assist, because they are now reacting identical.

Of course, after playing with this Fanatec for the testing, it's quite apparent. The wheel in the left corner is not displaying the same thing we are feeling and encountering in the game.

Odd thing for sure.

Go into third person view and watch the front wheels. The telemetry model is accurate.

 

[Bogie 19th]

See my edit Zoo.

 

[FyreandIce]

This is an all new level of fail for Fyre, lol.

That perfectly describes what happened at the FM3 forums during the FM3 launch. Others are already getting banned for bringing up the subject of the steering assist and anyone who is on moderation gets their posts ignored (fyi, all new members are moderated before they even post).

And yet proven as having assist by many others in the insidesimracing.tv forums, Forza forums and Forzacentral forums.

Thanks for reinforcing the fact that many have experienced the assist.

 

[Bogie 19th]

Speaking of telemetry Zoo, I wish they would have updated the telemetry to allow us to pick and choose certain parts of the telemetry to be on the screen instead of each of those pages.

 

[Minty]

It doesn't feel like there's an assist until you get into a slide, but it's definitely there.



Then again, Dan could be telling the truth and the aligning torque forces are just massively exaggerated.

 

[II-zOoLoGy-II]

Dan could have been more specific as to what is going on. But to be so vague, tell a customer they are confused, and say it is due to the Fanatec FFB and aligning torque? Come on now.

But I am done talking about it. I don't want people to think all I do is bash Forza. I have been called a GT fan boy twice today. Which if anything is true is the exact opposite.

Gonna order my Forza shirt!

 

[FyreandIce]

Dan could have been more specific as to what is going on. But to be so vague, tell a customer they are confused, and say it is due to the Fanatec FFB and aligning torque? Come on now.

The "twitching" is still there with the MS wheel with no FFB.

 

[buttsneeze]

Where is the proof that the assist is gone? Let's see it. Turn 10 SAYING it's gone means absolutely nothing.

The few people with Fanatec wheels who claim the assist is gone are either using the detection glitch or are too stupid to notice it. Or they can't handle that T10 and Forza might not be perfect and choose to ignore facts.

 

[FyreandIce]

Where is the proof that the assist is gone? Let's see it. Turn 10 SAYING it's gone means absolutely nothing.

The assist has been toned down but it's still there.

Evidence? Anecdotal at this point but you can see for your self by looking at the telemetry while not moving and seeing the amount of lock the game gives you than drive at high speed and then see how much it gives you.

I only got 50% of the lock I did while standing still with a wheel, about 15-20% with a controller.

The few people with Fanatec wheels who claim the assist is gone are either using the detection glitch or are too stupid to notice it. Or they can't handle that T10 and Forza might not be perfect and choose to ignore facts.

well said.

 

[Eric.]

Except I can get the steering assist to appear even on the 360 controller.

It is definitely speed sensitive. I believe it is most prevalent in the Cinque.

Go into third person view and look backwards:

At high speeds the wheels simply do not turn to the point that they should be with massive input on either side. The telemetry shows this.

At low speeds all of a sudden you are in full control again of the angle of the front wheels.

It is so obvious I really do not understand how we have people still in denial.

I don't think this is is a legitimate problem. Why would you ever need to turn the wheels a high angle at high speed? Instead they make it speed sensitive so at high speed you can have finer control of the steering angle. Again, I haven't played the demo, but I assume that you can still steer enough to understeer at speed, yes? Then why would you want to steer further?

Edit: Only meaning this about a gamepad, by the way.

 

[Pakt Sardine]

Well, I'm going out on the limb, here... Assist or not, it's not a game breaker for me. I spent about an hour and a half hot-lapping with the Cinque with my Fanatec GT2... Not once did I feel the steering, in any way, interfere with my driving. So I could care less honestly. Hope you all are having fun with the demo, and subsequently the full game on the 11th (or 14th), regardless of this issue.

 

[FyreandIce]

With a wheel you can deliberately under steer quite badly but what's the point of 900 degrees of rotation if the game decides how much steering you're allowed to have?

A 1:1 with a controller is a pretty silly idea but the fact that at high speed it gets down to about a 1:10 ratio is just too much. You can hardly get any real under steer with a controller. If they gave us an extra 20% at all times it would have been so much better.

Well, I'm going out on the limb, here... Assist or not, it's not a game breaker for me. I spent about an hour and a half hot-lapping with the Cinque with my Fanatec GT2... Not once did I feel the steering, in any way, interfere with my driving. So I could care less honestly. Hope you all are having fun with the demo, and subsequently the full game on the 11th (or 14th), regardless of this issue.

I could hardly feel the assist in FM3 but I knew it was there correcting my mistakes for me.

It's still there in FM4 but it's not there to save your ass, it tries to stop you getting into trouble in the first place just like FM3 but if you get yourself into a slide you better hope you know how to correct it.

 

[FyreandIce]

double post, sorry.

 

[FyreandIce]

somehow the edit button decided to post another reply instead of edit...

Why don't we have our own delete button?