Game of Thrones - Caution: contains spoilers & dragonsTV 

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It Also doesn't help that the show is based on a story that isn't completed yet and was very much known to be this way when it started.
I think it could have worked. If they kept the core set of characters fairly narrow, had an ending in site from the beginning and weaved it through this political drama with magic... it could have been what seasons 1-2/3 promised... ah well only two more till it’s over
 
I don't know if the below quote is true, but even so :lol:

via
These show runners have gone a bit over the top, even by fantasy/sci-fi/horror drama standards. I think they want to wash their hands of it, and get on to producing Star Wars sequels.
 
And it may be there will be no King, but a ruling council.

She did say she wanted to break the wheel.

If one were to set store in the prophecies and visions delivered during the seasons of the show and in the books, then the winner of the Iron Throne is going to have to be either Dany or more likely Jon.

There's no way it's Jon. Especially not after the speech Varys gave about it being important to be a man. This show has too much of a strong woman story arc to have them all take a back seat to a man. And Verys's speech sealed that for sure.
 
I can see y
She did say she wanted to break the wheel.



There's no way it's Jon. Especially not after the speech Varys gave about it being important to be a man. This show has too much of a strong woman story arc to have them all take a back seat to a man. And Verys's speech sealed that for sure.


I can see you have a taste for reverse psychology and an insight into feminist GRRM's thinking. I hope you are right, but I have a real sense of doom for Daenerys. She is either done for or is being set up by the story to look like she is done for.
 
Everyone's back to secretly hating each other and turns out the group that just won the Great War are stupid tacticians.
 
Various fan theories on how Dany could win the battle of King's Landing:
- She gets extra dragons (I don't see how)
- Drogon gets armor
- The Golden Company break their contract and turn their cloaks (they did this in the books, although under entirely different circumstances)
- The Dornish Army arrives in the nick of time (in the books, they number over 20,000)
- Yara Greyjoy and her small Ironborn fleet arrive to play role
- Dany adopts different tactics, swooping in steep dives for attacks, or attacks at night
 
Various fan theories on how Dany could win the battle of King's Landing:
- She gets extra dragons (I don't see how)
- Drogon gets armor
- The Golden Company break their contract and turn their cloaks (they did this in the books, although under entirely different circumstances)
- The Dornish Army arrives in the nick of time (in the books, they number over 20,000)
- Yara Greyjoy and her small Ironborn fleet arrive to play role
- Dany adopts different tactics, swooping in steep dives for attacks, or attacks at night

The actress seems pretty happy about the ending, whatever it will be;

 
The actress seems pretty happy about the ending, whatever it will be;


I totally disagree. She didn't say yes, and she didn't grin but grimaced. Bad news for Dany fans?

At this point, everything looks pretty depressing for both Jon and Dany. We'll see who survives the 2nd Battle of King's Landing, then sort it all out in 80 minutes of the final episode. Arya has always expressed a desire to sail west beyond the unknown limits of the Sunset Sea, so likely Arya will meet with success in her mission to finish off her list.
 
I still think Jon's toast. Dany has been avoiding getting too invested in men for the whole show. She lost drogo, and I'm guessing she loses Jon too. Seems likely she loses all her dragons too. I think the throne costs everything.
 
I still think Jon's toast. Dany has been avoiding getting too invested in men for the whole show. She lost drogo, and I'm guessing she loses Jon too. Seems likely she loses all her dragons too. I think the throne costs everything.

The Iron Throne symbolizes the 7 Kingdoms, conquered by Aegon 300+ years earlier. It's hard to imagine the 7 Kingdoms will not be reunited, including the North. Why was Jon brought back to life? What role did he play or mission he accomplished would have justified that? Beric Dondarrion was brought back 6 times but finally died only after his mission was served. Jon did not kill the Night King. But he could still play a role in perpetuating the Targaryen lineage and reuniting the 7 Kingdoms. Then and only then will he die.
 
Kinda happy with the direction the show is going though, to me it looked like Bran was going to be the night king and killing him would be the final part of the show or something, the throne seems to have taken the interest back now(I had been thinking this for at least 3 seasons now).

I'm not really sure what's going to happen now, But I suspect a bittersweet ending.

On the Jon Snow thing coming back to life that is because he has Royal blood, according to the Red God there is power in Kings Blood or some nonsense.
 
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The last fan rumor I heard:

Dany's former boyfriend Daario Naharis will arrive in the nick of time with his large sellsword company, the Seconds Sons.
 
Pretty much went as I expected(although I thought Jamie was going to kill Cersei), the direction the final episode will take will be interesting.
 
Surprised at how the scorpions went from overpowered in the precious episode to completely useless in this one.

Apart from that, I enjoyed the episode. Though I don’t quite understand Dany’ s descent into madness.

Prediction for last episode: Dany is killed by her dragon. Jon returns to the north. Tyrion and Sansa become king and queen of the seven kingdoms.
 
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The acting and special effects were first rate, even awesome. But I didn't buy Dany's turn to madness,
burning and sacking a whole city of tens of thousands. It seems like Arya will kill her. I predict Arya will subsequently be banished, not to the Free Cities, but to voyage west into the unknown Sunset Sea. King's Landing, the Red Keep and the Iron throne are lost, as are the 7 Kingdoms to unified government of Westeros, which return to 7 feuding sovereign Kingdoms. Jon rejects his Targaryen identity, returning to the North. Somewhere north a child of the forest works magic with obsidian, and somewhere east a dragon is hatched.
 
I don't even know where to begin

I'm fine with the plot points. And you're gonna forget I said that by the end of this rant I think. But really, I have no problem with jamie returning to cersie before she dies, with Dani turning mad, with Jon refusing his title and following the queen, with tyrion following the queen and both of them ultimately being betrayed by her, and even with the rampage of king's landing being easy with one dragon. None of that I have a problem with. Also I'm fine altogether with clegane bowl.

I'm just gonna lay out the issues to get myself organized and then tackle them one by one.

- arya's assassin character assassination
- overpowered dragon
- jamie and cersie
- dani's choice
- plastic armor
- Jon's choice

Alright, let's take these in order of least offensive to most offensive. Plastic armor. Uh... the whole point of a giant metal breastplate is to stop a spear is it not? I mean, medieval fights had a lot of clanging and stabbing and deflected blows because armor was very effective at stopping blades. Armor and shields were extremely potent, so why are they split in two by spears as though they don't exist? This seems like it's done for expediency to keep the show moving, but honestly I'd rather sit with a gritty long swinging slog of armored up fighters looking for a weakness in their opponent.

Jon's choice. Uh... 5 seconds ago you were in love with Dani and all over her. Now all of the sudden you've lost your love interest? How does that happen? I get the idea of keeping your relative at arms length when it comes to who you'd fall for, and even the idea of just not liking the looks (in that way) of someone who is genetically similar to you. But after it happens, you can't just shut that off. Dani's character seems to realize this, and Jon's doesn't. And he doesn't ever confront the issue, or have some well motivated dialog, or make some heartfelt speech or appeal or anything. He just doesn't want to talk about it.

Dani's choice. How did her character get from "I'm the breaker of chains and the freer of people" to "I'm a mad murderer" again? I mean, for a little while there she put her own quest for the iron throne aside for the good of the people she was trying to save. If this story has been her slow descent into madness, it hasn't done enough of a job motivating that descent. Because of that, it makes her look like she's just pissed off that her BF isn't interested anymore and goes on a muderous rampage. It looks like character assassination instead of the compelling story of a good person gone bad, slowly... like breaking bad.

Jamie and Cerise. All he needed to do was stab her and die in that underground spot where they held each other and died anyway. That's it! And his character arc is complete. Everything about his makes sense, and he is a compelling and interesting character. Cersie also needs to not be begging for her life (to no one in particular). I get that she doesn't want to die, and I get that the audience would like to see her suffer in the end, but it's not consistent with anything about her. She's already lost everything She doesn't fear death. Her character has only gotten stronger and more cutthroat. She should have faced death at the top of that tower like a the person of conviction and strength that she is. Sobbing in Jamie's arms was such a horrible bit of writing. I think it was to make you feel better that she got her comeuppance, but she just shouldn't. Ever. You get no atonement from her. Except if Jamie kills her! Which he really needed to do to make his character arc pay off. Then you get some closure on the Jamie/Cersie love tragedy. It also helps give Tyrion's character more of a complete ending. Seriously, how did they not do that?

Overpowered dragon. Suddenly the scorpions can't hit anything. Coming from the direction of the sun was a good touch, and from above where they can't pivot, but after you get low you have to go straight back up and divebomb again. Staying low isn't the answer, that gets you killed. Why is dragon's fire a small bomb? It's fire. You could imagine that scene where the dragon takes out the front gate from the wrong side (with stones flying) as being rewritten to just have the gate engulfed in flame only to no longer be in flame a second later. Perhaps the door stays lit, and the soldiers are burning, and other wooden things are burning, but stones flying? That dragon was the hand of god. A column of destruction that obliterated everything it touched as though it were a phaserblast from the enterprise. It's fire.

Last and most devastating, was the assassination of our assassin. Arya comes to the city to kill Cersie. And the hound says "you sure about this" and she's all "no actually, I journeyed this whole way without actually thinking about it. I'm outta here." You can fix this with a little dialog. Arya is a calculating psychopathic killer at this point, the hand of death itself. If the hound says "wow, looks like Cersie's gonna die anyway". Arya can simply say "yea you're right. If she doesn't, I'll come back to finish the job. And just walk out calmly". If only she walked out calmly. Instead Arya resorts to the female action trope of trying to save women and children. Really? Of all the characters that you're going to have running around saving women and children you choose Arya? That's about as far from consistent for her as any behavior I can think of.

Arya is obviously being set up to kill Dani. And that's fine, I think it's a good twist for the show. But Arya doesn't need to run around seeing this "face of death" with horror and disgust right after she killed the night king and death itself. She's a calculating instrument. She can simply observe and calmly conclude that Dani goes on her list. I was so disappointed with what they did to arya in this episode. It's hard to overstate. If she doesn't come back and kill dani with a mask, it has to be with a mask because we need more payoff on that, then it will represent a complete and total collapse of one of the most important characters in the show. Even if she does come back and kill dani with a mask, this episode was so inconsistent and so painful that it has left permanent damage on a great character.

I'm so disappointed with this.
 
I don't even know where to begin

I'm fine with the plot points. And you're gonna forget I said that by the end of this rant I think. But really, I have no problem with jamie returning to cersie before she dies, with Dani turning mad, with Jon refusing his title and following the queen, with tyrion following the queen and both of them ultimately being betrayed by her, and even with the rampage of king's landing being easy with one dragon. None of that I have a problem with. Also I'm fine altogether with clegane bowl.

I'm just gonna lay out the issues to get myself organized and then tackle them one by one.

- arya's assassin character assassination
- overpowered dragon
- jamie and cersie
- dani's choice
- plastic armor
- Jon's choice

Alright, let's take these in order of least offensive to most offensive. Plastic armor. Uh... the whole point of a giant metal breastplate is to stop a spear is it not? I mean, medieval fights had a lot of clanging and stabbing and deflected blows because armor was very effective at stopping blades. Armor and shields were extremely potent, so why are they split in two by spears as though they don't exist? This seems like it's done for expediency to keep the show moving, but honestly I'd rather sit with a gritty long swinging slog of armored up fighters looking for a weakness in their opponent.

Jon's choice. Uh... 5 seconds ago you were in love with Dani and all over her. Now all of the sudden you've lost your love interest? How does that happen? I get the idea of keeping your relative at arms length when it comes to who you'd fall for, and even the idea of just not liking the looks (in that way) of someone who is genetically similar to you. But after it happens, you can't just shut that off. Dani's character seems to realize this, and Jon's doesn't. And he doesn't ever confront the issue, or have some well motivated dialog, or make some heartfelt speech or appeal or anything. He just doesn't want to talk about it.

Dani's choice. How did her character get from "I'm the breaker of chains and the freer of people" to "I'm a mad murderer" again? I mean, for a little while there she put her own quest for the iron throne aside for the good of the people she was trying to save. If this story has been her slow descent into madness, it hasn't done enough of a job motivating that descent. Because of that, it makes her look like she's just pissed off that her BF isn't interested anymore and goes on a muderous rampage. It looks like character assassination instead of the compelling story of a good person gone bad, slowly... like breaking bad.

Jamie and Cerise. All he needed to do was stab her and die in that underground spot where they held each other and died anyway. That's it! And his character arc is complete. Everything about his makes sense, and he is a compelling and interesting character. Cersie also needs to not be begging for her life (to no one in particular). I get that she doesn't want to die, and I get that the audience would like to see her suffer in the end, but it's not consistent with anything about her. She's already lost everything She doesn't fear death. Her character has only gotten stronger and more cutthroat. She should have faced death at the top of that tower like a the person of conviction and strength that she is. Sobbing in Jamie's arms was such a horrible bit of writing. I think it was to make you feel better that she got her comeuppance, but she just shouldn't. Ever. You get no atonement from her. Except if Jamie kills her! Which he really needed to do to make his character arc pay off. Then you get some closure on the Jamie/Cersie love tragedy. It also helps give Tyrion's character more of a complete ending. Seriously, how did they not do that?

Overpowered dragon. Suddenly the scorpions can't hit anything. Coming from the direction of the sun was a good touch, and from above where they can't pivot, but after you get low you have to go straight back up and divebomb again. Staying low isn't the answer, that gets you killed. Why is dragon's fire a small bomb? It's fire. You could imagine that scene where the dragon takes out the front gate from the wrong side (with stones flying) as being rewritten to just have the gate engulfed in flame only to no longer be in flame a second later. Perhaps the door stays lit, and the soldiers are burning, and other wooden things are burning, but stones flying? That dragon was the hand of god. A column of destruction that obliterated everything it touched as though it were a phaserblast from the enterprise. It's fire.

Last and most devastating, was the assassination of our assassin. Arya comes to the city to kill Cersie. And the hound says "you sure about this" and she's all "no actually, I journeyed this whole way without actually thinking about it. I'm outta here." You can fix this with a little dialog. Arya is a calculating psychopathic killer at this point, the hand of death itself. If the hound says "wow, looks like Cersie's gonna die anyway". Arya can simply say "yea you're right. If she doesn't, I'll come back to finish the job. And just walk out calmly". If only she walked out calmly. Instead Arya resorts to the female action trope of trying to save women and children. Really? Of all the characters that you're going to have running around saving women and children you choose Arya? That's about as far from consistent for her as any behavior I can think of.

Arya is obviously being set up to kill Dani. And that's fine, I think it's a good twist for the show. But Arya doesn't need to run around seeing this "face of death" with horror and disgust right after she killed the night king and death itself. She's a calculating instrument. She can simply observe and calmly conclude that Dani goes on her list. I was so disappointed with what they did to arya in this episode. It's hard to overstate. If she doesn't come back and kill dani with a mask, it has to be with a mask because we need more payoff on that, then it will represent a complete and total collapse of one of the most important characters in the show. Even if she does come back and kill dani with a mask, this episode was so inconsistent and so painful that it has left permanent damage on a great character.

I'm so disappointed with this.

I think a big part of your disappointment is due to the showrunners being forced to improvise due to not having the genuine source material, having outstripped the book story several seasons ago.
 
To be fair, it was a pretty good episode, you just have to ignore the plot, story, characters and genuine motivation for anything that happens.

Other than that it was well shot and the audio was really great.


But I couldn’t help think about all those missed scorpion bolts, going into orbit :lol:

I think a big part of your disappointment is due to the showrunners being forced to improvise due to not having the genuine source material, having outstripped the book story several seasons ago.

I don’t like this idea because it put forward the notion that the show writers had no agency. Maybe they did maybe they didn’t, I’m no inside man.
But the show was called Game of Thrones and it starts out like that, but then grows into this massive never ending tail called ‘A Song of Ice and Fire’... but they can never finish it... so they **** about, castrate the show and pull it back round to a Game of Thrones.... then they butcher the ending. So many choices are pointless and poor.

It’s the writers fault, they did a **** job through season 7 and an even worse one for season 8. At least we could actually see this ‘battle’
 
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Uh, if this interview with Barristan Selmy is correct, then there might be hope for a release date for The Winds of Winter and A Dream of Spring soon.
 
Jamie and Cerise. All he needed to do was stab her and die in that underground spot where they held each other and died anyway. That's it! And his character arc is complete. Everything about his makes sense, and he is a compelling and interesting character. Cersie also needs to not be begging for her life (to no one in particular). I get that she doesn't want to die, and I get that the audience would like to see her suffer in the end, but it's not consistent with anything about her. She's already lost everything She doesn't fear death. Her character has only gotten stronger and more cutthroat. She should have faced death at the top of that tower like a the person of conviction and strength that she is. Sobbing in Jamie's arms was such a horrible bit of writing. I think it was to make you feel better that she got her comeuppance, but she just shouldn't. Ever. You get no atonement from her. Except if Jamie kills her! Which he really needed to do to make his character arc pay off. Then you get some closure on the Jamie/Cersie love tragedy. It also helps give Tyrion's character more of a complete ending. Seriously, how did they not do that?

Overpowered dragon. Suddenly the scorpions can't hit anything. Coming from the direction of the sun was a good touch, and from above where they can't pivot, but after you get low you have to go straight back up and divebomb again. Staying low isn't the answer, that gets you killed. Why is dragon's fire a small bomb? It's fire. You could imagine that scene where the dragon takes out the front gate from the wrong side (with stones flying) as being rewritten to just have the gate engulfed in flame only to no longer be in flame a second later. Perhaps the door stays lit, and the soldiers are burning, and other wooden things are burning, but stones flying? That dragon was the hand of god. A column of destruction that obliterated everything it touched as though it were a phaserblast from the enterprise. It's fire.

Last and most devastating, was the assassination of our assassin. Arya comes to the city to kill Cersie. And the hound says "you sure about this" and she's all "no actually, I journeyed this whole way without actually thinking about it. I'm outta here." You can fix this with a little dialog. Arya is a calculating psychopathic killer at this point, the hand of death itself. If the hound says "wow, looks like Cersie's gonna die anyway". Arya can simply say "yea you're right. If she doesn't, I'll come back to finish the job. And just walk out calmly". If only she walked out calmly. Instead Arya resorts to the female action trope of trying to save women and children. Really? Of all the characters that you're going to have running around saving women and children you choose Arya? That's about as far from consistent for her as any behavior I can think of.

I actually felt bad for Cersei. Maybe it's because when she was close to her death, she seemed more reasonable than murderous rampage Dany.

Arya was also knocked down by the crumbling buildings probably a few too many times. This part didn't do much for her character. But it led to my favorite part of the episode due to the "artistic direction". It was at the end when she was standing and walking through the rubble. Then the magic horse arrived out of nowhere. It seemed more like a dream sequence.
 
I actually felt bad for Cersei. Maybe it's because when she was close to her death, she seemed more reasonable than murderous rampage Dany.

Arya was also knocked down by the crumbling buildings probably a few too many times. This part didn't do much for her character. But it led to my favorite part of the episode due to the "artistic direction". It was at the end when she was standing and walking through the rubble. Then the magic horse arrived out of nowhere. It seemed more like a dream sequence.

Don't feel bad for Cersie, not for a second. She was an absolute monster throughout the show. She murdered so many good people, and tried to murder so many more. Don't forget Joffrey. Don't forget that the tried to kill Tyrion, more than once. I thought the show was unusually kind to her. Keep in mind this is the same show that included the red wedding, oberon's death, and it's the same couple that crippled Bran (and presumably murdered the guy in the opening scene of episode 1 season 1).

Think of Sansa, Ned, and Sansa's wolf.
 
Did anyone Miss what Vary's was planning with that kid at the start, to me that looks to be how Dany will die via poison from a kitchenhand.

This season the quality of the story writing has taken a big hit, the Scorpions being nerfed Soo much in this episode and overpowered in the other episodes just seems like it was used as a ploy to move the plot along by killing one of her dragons and add a tiny bit of tension for this episode.

I feel as if while it looked to be going in this direction they didn't exactly build Danys character properly for her mental decline to justify what she has done here.

I did like what they did with Arya though, she has wanted revenge for the entire show and she saw first hand how devastating revenge can be on innocent people caught in the cross fire, this will change her.

You can tell the Arya bit was more G.R.R.M then the show writers though, that was her natural character ark.

The Book will definitely have the night king being the Main story not the throne though, the prophecy of Azor Ahai(which was even mentioned in the show a few seasons ago) will be full filled at some stage, the show is starting to leave a bitter taste for me as the insane build up to this point has been wasted with a quick finish.
 
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I have my doubts that he will be alive to finish A Dream of Spring.

His story telling is so incredibly detailed it takes a seriously long time to make a book.
 
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