Game of Thrones - Caution: contains spoilers & dragonsTV

[Dotini]

so...yeah, what about Gendry and is he cool with all this?

(Also, the thinly-veiled ideas that it's about Global Warming.)

Gendry is a bastard of Robert Baratheon, so he can have no claim to the throne...unless maybe he is legitimized?

Hard to conceive the story is anything at all about global warming. The size, shape and geography of Planetos is unknown. The seasons are weird and not at all like those on Earth. It is an wholly different and totally unknown planet. Perhaps the whole world will be destroyed when the Red Comet comes back in the final episode? But I doubt it. After Robert was assassinated, it looked like Stannis was the rightful king, assuming the legitimacy of the Rebellion. Right now Jon, in a Targaryen restoration, has the best claim to the throne. But will he acknowledge his true identity? Would he even want to be King of the Seven Kingdoms? Unlikely it would seem, unless he and Daenerys get married. But if he and Dany are killed, ending the Targaryen line, perhaps Sansa and Tyrion? Arya and a legitimized Gendry?

 

[88GTA]

Spoiler

Jamie and Brienne will win the game.

 

[baldgye]

Spoiler

Jamie and Brienne will win the game.

Spoiler

I think Danny will rule after John sacrifices himself and Sansa gets to rule the north as the new warden.

 

[Danoff]

Spoiler

I think Danny will rule after John sacrifices himself and Sansa gets to rule the north as the new warden.

Where have I seen that before. That sounds oddly familiar.

Spoiler

My prediction for the end is still that John dies, Daenerys takes the iron throne, and Sansa rules the north.

 

[baldgye]

So more important characters die outside kingslanding than during the ‘end of the world’ war with the dead chaps?

The last episode was a vast improvement over the last couple. But they keep making silly choices which build and build;
How did they single out and capture Melissa? Why did they do this? Why did she let herself be killed and not simply jump? Why did Danny just fly at Kingslanding with her dragons? Why didn’t Varis know that they’d invented massive bow and arrows? Why didn’t Cerci open fire on Danny and her mates and kill the lot of them, they should have been in range of the super bow and arrows? If they where going to siege Kingslanding WHY DID SHE ARRIVE TWO WEEKS EARLY?!

There is still some good political intrigue in the show but they just don’t seem to know what to do with everything else. Like good art asks you questions to make you think about things from other perspectives, all GoT does is ask you to question the logistics and logic of things that’ll never be explained...

 

[mustafur]

The story seems to point at everyone close to Dany will die until she turns insane, I don't think Jon will die at this point something has changed the dynamic in this episode.

Also Clegane bowl seems to be confirmed.

 

[baldgye]

The story seems to point at everyone close to Dany will die until she turns insane, I don't think Jon will die at this point something has changed the dynamic in this episode.

Also Clegane bowl seems to be confirmed.

Seems more like she'll go down with her dragons killing Cerci and then Jon will take the throne uniting the kingdoms? They keep saying the only time there can be peace in the Westlands is if the north and south are hand in hand and Sarah has made it clear she isn't ok with Danny... so John would be the only one who could unite them on the throne??

Also, Varis actually got remembered and seems to back Jon rather than Danny for the throne and both him and Theodor seem to think John would be a better leader than Danny...

 

[mustafur]

Seems more like she'll go down with her dragons killing Cerci and then Jon will take the throne uniting the kingdoms? They keep saying the only time there can be peace in the Westlands is if the north and south are hand in hand and Sarah has made it clear she isn't ok with Danny... so John would be the only one who could unite them on the throne??

Also, Varis actually got remembered and seems to back Jon rather than Danny for the throne and both him and Theodor seem to think John would be a better leader than Danny...

I think the Idea that they don't want to harm the people inside King's landing has been the issue that will probably be the downfall of Danny, this has been said by alot of people in the last few seasons, but Danny seems to be pushing towards the idea of if I can't have it no one will and will probably burn the place down.

From a story telling point of view we have Danny who has been building to this moment from Episode 1 whilst Jon has been the reluctant leader type who started as a nobody that went to Castle black because he felt shame over his origins and overtime everything is starting to align, it just looks to be heading towards Jon that will be on the throne now, from an objective point of view he would be the better leader, he is much more measured and fair with his approach where as Dany started that way but keeps inching towards what her dad used to be until insanity became his downfall, it's also a matter of time before everyone knows Jons real origins and he will have the backing of the lords, and that may provide unexpected backup in the future(maybe but this is probably unlikely).

On Cersei given that they told the prophecy in the book about how she will get everything then lose everything and have mentioned it many times since, even in the last season, I'm pretty confident She is going to be killed By Jamie.

 

[baldgye]

I think the Idea that they don't want to harm the people inside King's landing has been the issue that will probably be the downfall of Danny, this has been said by alot of people in the last few seasons, but Danny seems to be pushing towards the idea of if I can't have it no one will and will probably burn the place down.

From a story telling point of view we have Danny who has been building to this moment from Episode 1 whilst Jon has been the reluctant leader type who started as a nobody that went to Castle black because he felt shame over his origins and overtime everything is starting to align, it just looks to be heading towards Jon that will be on the throne now, from an objective point of view he would be the better leader, he is much more measured and fair with his approach where as Dany started that way but keeps inching towards what her dad used to be until insanity became his downfall.

I agree and to be honest this sociopathic nature of Danny was her most interesting trait. They seemed to want to walk it back when she attached Slavers Bay and she became the breaker of chains... that was ridiculous... but I am glad they are pushing her back to sociopath.... that said it only makes her characterisation weaker and have less nuance and depth.

On Cersei given that they told the prophecy in the book about how she will get everything then lose everything and have mentioned it many times since, even in the last season, I'm pretty confident She is going to be killed By Jamie.

Unearned redemption

 

[mustafur]

I agree and to be honest this sociopathic nature of Danny was her most interesting trait. They seemed to want to walk it back when she attached Slavers Bay and she became the breaker of chains... that was ridiculous... but I am glad they are pushing her back to sociopath.... that said it only makes her characterisation weaker and have less nuance and depth.

It's interesting though, it's a battle between two minds in one person, the idea of Missandei getting Captured and killed despite them not getting anyone else when they easily could of, just seems to be aimed purely at Danny to get her mad, and Cersei seems to be banking on this by having everyone in Kings landing surround the Red Keep as unassuming Human Shields.

Those big Scorpion things seem to take away the advantage of the Dragon, it will be interesting to see how it plays out.

 

[88GTA]

Why did Danny just fly at Kingslanding with her dragons?

She was flying above an island, Dragon Stone I believe, when they were ambushed. That naval battle was not near King's Landing.

Spoiler

Jon sealed his fate when he let Bran tell his sisters about his true identity. Dany is going to kill Jon for the throne but she will never take it. Jamie will be the one who kills Cersei but I'm not certain he will ever rule either.

A few seasons ago, Cersei speaks of having her fortunes told and she finds out that she will be killed by her own brother. I assumed at the time it was Tyrion, as does she while she has the entire city looking for him, but everything has pointed to Jamie. Especially the way that the last season ended where his departure from King's Landing and break up with Cersei seemed very forced. He finds out that she has conspired and made plans without consulting him (plans with Euron to rub it in) and won't help Jon and Dany fight the Night King. He says he gave his word to help but there is never a scene where he himself pledges to fight for the living.

Out of all the terrible things Cersei has done, this is where he draws the line and leaves? He stood by her side for far worse than betraying the living, who they were at war with. It just felt too forced to me.

 

[baldgye]

It's interesting though, it's a battle between two minds in one person, the idea of Missandei getting Captured and killed despite them not getting anyone else when they easily could of, just seems to be aimed purely at Danny to get her mad

The same thing that happened to John so when he lost the Battle of the Bastards? Not overly creative or necessary... they literally just killed one of her Dragons, her most loved and prized possessions...

She was flying above an island, Dragon Stone I believe, when they were ambushed. That naval battle was not near King's Landing.

Maybe, it looked real close though

Out of all the terrible things Cersei has done, this is where he draws the line and leaves? He stood by her side for far worse than betraying the living, who they were at war with. It just felt too forced to me.

Agreed, but then so much of this season is so forced. They don't need to force drama or storylines to have massive conclusions, because they are/where building to the end of the world...

 

[88GTA]

Maybe, it looked real close though

It seemed similar because they were now in the south but I assure you, they were not in King's Landing. Dany, her army and dragons were going to Dragon Stone to prepare for an assault on King's Landing and they were ambushed. It is the same island where they spent most of last season and mined the dragon glass.

 

[baldgye]

It seemed similar because they were now in the south but I assure you, they were not in King's Landing. Dany, her army and dragons were going to Dragon Stone to prepare for an assault on King's Landing and they were ambushed. It is the same island where they spent most of last season and mined the dragon glass.

Ok, but wasn't the castle in the distance Kings Landing?

Is that map accurate? I'm no GoT expert or anything but it seemed alot closer than that... either way... if Cerci had her fleet ambush them en route, why didn't she also then ambush the survivors when they washed ashore and kill the whole lot of them??

Also, if all of their ships (or the vast majority of them) where taken out by the mega harpoon machinegun attack... how did they get from Dragonstone, back to the mainland... and while en route, why didn't cerci attack? Even with a dragon she could inflict heavy losses on Danny's very small platoon and make it sure the Dragon couldn't ever propely engage the attacking army with said harpoon cannons...

 

[88GTA]

I'm no expert either so I can't speak for the map. I know that when they laid out the plans in Winterfell, Dany and her dragons were heading to Dragonstone by sea. She was casually flying around and getting ready to land when they were ambushed by Euron. There is a castle on Dragonstone which is where Dany and Jon first met and where Stannis housed his forces many seasons ago. Dany has yet to attack King's Landing and at the end of the episode, she and a portion of her army went to King's Landing to negotiate with Cersei.

As for your other questions, I don't know for certain. Don't forget though, up until Euron's ambush, the two sides were supposed to have been in a truce to fight the Night King.

 

[baldgye]

As for your other questions, I don't know for certain. Don't forget though, up until Euron's ambush, the two sides were supposed to have been in a truce to fight the Night King.

True, but won't Cerci know that the nightking has been defeated and thus the truce would be over... I mean, it's not like Danny brought whats left of her armies and two dragons down for afternoon tea

 

[Danoff]

The last episode was a vast improvement over the last couple.

I think it was the worst episode in some time. "We lost half our men"... excuse me? Half? Uh... I'm pretty sure I remember seeing a complete zombie overrun throughout winterfell. Your men are gone. There should be like 30 of you.

And they are not nearly happy enough to be alive. And not nearly sad enough to leave what should be everything behind. You don't turn back to sniping at the people you fought next to. That should be an unbreakable bond.

Seriously, the episode after we see all of these people cheat death together, and save each other and rely on each other, we get an unending chain of "please I beg you, don't do this"... "tough stuff, that's exactly what I'm doing. I don't care about you because I have an agenda that I didn't throw out the window in order to survive the previous episode".

Cersie has been more evil, and inflicted more damage, in many previous episodes, but the people made sense, so I enjoyed the pain. This was just pain. Nobody is making sense. Nobody is acting like a real person. The realism of this show is fading fast. I hate for a show with such wonderful characters to end up becoming just a bunch of action with plot holes and poorly thought out dialog for the sake of making a scene.

I think this once high flying show may be coming in to a rough landing. I'm trying to reserve judgment, but it's hard to overlook a lot of this.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

The big story coming from this episode is the Starbucks cup on the table in front of the queen.

 

[mustafur]

It's a bit unrealistic in that sense, for instance they have a massive army in the vale that is their ally that wasn't involved in the fight that they could use to help them in Kings Landing, they also have the Support of the Dornish who at this point would be frothing at the mouth to depose Cersei.

Also:

 

[88GTA]

Haha. That has to be intentional... Right?

 

[baldgye]

I think this once high flying show may be coming in to a rough landing. I'm trying to reserve judgment, but it's hard to overlook a lot of this.

The war for the north was imo the worst episode since Danny attacked the night king and lost a dragon. It was ridiculous. At least this last episode hinted at what made this show great; political intrigue.

I do agree that the idea they have half of their forces is insane but then almost nothing you see on screen has any real impact on the plot or narrative. Both the plot and narrative are separate from what we’re actually shown.

For example where is the logic in capturing Melissa and not just finishing off Daniel’s forces before they swim to shore?

For me this show **** the bed around season 5, when the writers realised they’d ****ed up and added too many plot lines and characters, so killed 90% of the cast. Season 1-3 were great, of that we can be greatful.

 

[Dotini]

GoT actors have said in interviews that the ending will be surprising, unexpected and will divide fans.

In terms of the Iron Throne, I can see several potential protagonists: Cersei, Dany, Jon or none of the above. Right now I'm guessing it's none of the above. A second tier would include newly legitimized Gendry, Tyrion, Sansa or the Greyjoy woman. In a third tier, Yohn Royce, Samwell Tarley, Robin Arryn, Davos Seaworth and Edmure Tully.

And it may be there will be no King, but a ruling council.

If one were to set store in the prophecies and visions delivered during the seasons of the show and in the books, then the winner of the Iron Throne is going to have to be either Dany or more likely Jon. But Tyrion is quoted as saying, "Prophecy is like a half-trained mule. It looks as though it might be useful, but the moment you trust in it, it kicks you in the head."

 

[Betty blue]

So far, this season is not up to standards. The events started too slow in the first two episodes then things started to move quickly! There's also a lack of screen time for some of the characters. They could have made more episodes with less time but better quality.

 

[baldgye]

Y'know when you watch a TV show or movie and the second time you watch it you discover something new that you missed first time round, something that gives more meaning to the scene and the episode/movie? Game of Thrones is like the opposite of that.

 

[mustafur]

Y'know when you watch a TV show or movie and the second time you watch it you discover something new that you missed first time round, something that gives more meaning to the scene and the episode/movie? Game of Thrones is like the opposite of that.

Definitely not the case in the earlier seasons though.

 

[baldgye]

Definitely not the case in the earlier seasons though.

Indeed, it's why it's so frustrating how bad this show and the writing is now. Ned Stark and his arch is so well done, there is so much going on and it couldn't happen any other way. Soon as Ned left for Kingslanding he was a dead man on borrowed time and seeing how that was the only eventuality and the repercussions it all had was great. Add to that all the depth of the books if you'd read them or read about them...

...now we're at a point where nothing matters, only the plot and the plot makes no sense.


They killed a dragon, in a surprise attack that made literally no sense. Why didn't they just kill the dragon during the war with the whites? Then that battle would have had a lasting impact. As it is, it's as though they sudden realised; "**** two dragons is too many! get rid of one, quickly!".

 

[Dotini]

Indeed, it's why it's so frustrating how bad this show and the writing is now. Ned Stark and his arch is so well done, there is so much going on and it couldn't happen any other way. Soon as Ned left for Kingslanding he was a dead man on borrowed time and seeing how that was the only eventuality and the repercussions it all had was great. Add to that all the depth of the books if you'd read them or read about them...

...now we're at a point where nothing matters, only the plot and the plot makes no sense.


They killed a dragon, in a surprise attack that made literally no sense. Why didn't they just kill the dragon during the war with the whites? Then that battle would have had a lasting impact. As it is, it's as though they sudden realised; "**** two dragons is too many! get rid of one, quickly!".

You neatly illustrate the problem TV show runners have when they run out of original source material and are forced to invent their own. This TV show has been an homage to the books for many years, but has gone a few seasons too long. I expect Mr Martin to release Winds of Winter within a year, and we'll clear up several points of divergence. Perhaps someday after the Song of Ice and Fire is properly concluded, a new TV series or movies will be produced which will have greater fidelity to the original story. Still and all, for a TV show, it's been very engrossing. I have numerous posters and several cups, glasses, T-shirts and other GoT merchandise littering my home!

 

[mustafur]

From my knowledge the first 3 seasons are basically by the book(with a few minor things left out), then seasons 4-6 are by the book but they had to skip big sections out because of time frames, then after wards they have been told key things by G.R.R.M and then made the rest up, so you can see where the decline in quality is coming from, but it's not really their fault the books are too far indepth for a show to possibly use fully, the younger characters will age too much and they pretty much already have.

I mean in the books Jon Snow in Season 1 was 14 so basically he would be the same age as what Sansa would be, but they had to age everyone up so the future scenes could work out, but if they go too long then you got another problem.

 

[baldgye]

From my knowledge the first 3 seasons are basically by the book(with a few minor things left out), then seasons 4-6 are by the book but they had to skip big sections out because of time frames, then after wards they have been told key things by G.R.R.M and then made the rest up, so you can see where the decline in quality is coming from, but it's not really their fault the books are too far indepth for a show to possibly use fully, the younger characters will age too much and they pretty much already have.

I mean in the books Jon Snow in Season 1 was 14 so basically he would be the same age as what Sansa would be, but they had to age everyone up so the future scenes could work out, but if they go too long then you got another problem.

I think the biggest issue is that in season 4 the breadth of the show grew exponentially. You could go half a season without hearing much from one collection of characters just because they had to juggle so many plot lines all at once. At the time it felt like there was a reason, and that they'd all play their part in the end of the world. But that didn't happen, instead they were all just cut from the cast due to time and budget.

Bad planning and bad writing.

 

[mustafur]

I think the biggest issue is that in season 4 the breadth of the show grew exponentially. You could go half a season without hearing much from one collection of characters just because they had to juggle so many plot lines all at once. At the time it felt like there was a reason, and that they'd all play their part in the end of the world. But that didn't happen, instead they were all just cut from the cast due to time and budget.

Bad planning and bad writing.

It Also doesn't help that the show is based on a story that isn't completed yet and was very much known to be this way when it started.