- 1,445
- Spain
Yep, I think it's fair to assume this issue has been added to the pile labelled "We have no idea how to fix this" by this point.
Gran Turismo 7: Latest news and discussion thread
- Thread starter sems4arsenal
- 46,147 comments
- 6,171,721 views
- 287
- Florida
- Lyam_Wth
- 4,206
- London, Ontario
- voodoovaj
I hate to be the fly in the ointment here, but there is no way. I have video evidence AND I can give you an easy way to test this.
Here is my DTM setup at Spa (don't mind the few mistake I made, it's a difficult set up). All the car are set to RH in my garage. The stock tires are CS in most cases (The Sierra, Merc EVO, and M3 Evo). This race combines engine swapped cars and engine modded cars. Everything is balanced to 650pp.
There is no way that Sophy is matching my pace while using CS tires.
Now, the test. If I were to take any of these cars and swap them to RS tires, they would scamper off into the distance. I can post a video of that as well if you wish. I know this is true because I've made this mistake several times while making my custom races. I've had cars on racing tires while trying to make a SS race, and I know immediately when a car is using softer tires.
Now, maybe there is an issue where SOMETIMES the tires set themselves back to default for some reason. Maybe the cars need to be modified to a certain point. Maybe a weight reduction as to happen...I don't know. However, there is no way that those cars in my video are using CS tires while I am on RH.
I'll throw together a replay with some of the cars on RS tires.
- 89,168
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
- 3,719
- PNW
- cowabungacorey
I think the issue is the lateral grip of the tire model in GT. For most tires they have a lot of longitudinal grip, as they should. Accelerating, spinning and gaining grip. But unfortunately to exaggerate the tire slipping the side bite is drastically decreased. That's why people typically use comfort hard tires because the feeling is all universal. The front tires aren't gripping more than the rears in counter steer, the rear is spinning but not providing a wildly different outcome.
With CH tires and the optional "steering angle spacers" in GT the feeling is pretty good, and smooth. But will probably feel less natural because of the overall lack of grip. I think with AC and Dirt there's a lot of aids in the background to help you drift with increased levels of grip because otherwise you couldn't effectively drift those cars under those conditions.
- 4,206
- London, Ontario
- voodoovaj
No, I'm saying that changing tires does indeed work, regardless of the tire, not simply default or RH
I'm uploading the video now. I set my BMW's to RS, my Sierra's on the RH, and the Mercs on default. The BMW's have a definite advantage over the Sierra's. The Merc's, obviously, all fall to the back.
Actually, I will repeat it, but I will put two of the Sierra's on SS.
- 2,073
- London
- DEAD_DULLAH123
- hyperspeed980
- 851
- United Kingdom
Remember that Toyota Supra survey from GT Sport which asked which cars people would like added to Gran Turismo? Does anyone have that list? I remember the F8 Tributo being on there, and we later got that in GT7. Wonder if there are other not-yet-added cars too.
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- 4,206
- London, Ontario
- voodoovaj
I'd rather video evidence.
So here's what I did. Everything is on RH tires (which apparently is normal in Sophy races) and I set the Warstiener BMW and ProMrkt Merc on RS, which I'm being told does nothing if I understand this correctly. Now, normally, a car further down the field has limited ability to move through the field. I use a field of F1 driver names, which actually makes this test easier to follow.
The BMW's are driven by Damon Hill and Max Verstappen. The Mercs are driven by Jos Verstappen and Fernando Alonso.
I shared the video from my view so you can better see how the other cars behave. I moved the BMW and Merc ahead a couple of places to avoid a collision that was happening at Eau Rouge, because of the tire difference. Then, I spend almost the entire race chasing down the Verstappens, which is definitely a different behavior compared to those same cars on RH tires. You can also see D. Hill take the lead and Alonso move up. It looks like after a get enough distance, they begin to slow down, but they remain faster than the RH cars.
Here is the normal behavior, everyone on RH. This is the same video I posted a little earlier. Note the white BMW and Yellow Merc. I included it here for comparison. The BMW and Merc are most decidedly not slicing through the field in the same way.
Try it yourself. Take one of your custom races and put RS tires on one of the cars. It should be an obvious difference in pace.
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- 2,073
- London
- DEAD_DULLAH123
- hyperspeed980
"Car families/models that aren't in GTS as of this post are bolded.
- Lexus IS F
- Toyota GR Series
- Suzuki Alto Works
- Mercedes-Benz SLC
- Mercedes-Benz SL
- BMW i8
- Porsche 718
- Lotus Evora
- Lotus Elise
- Lotus Exige
- Lotus 3-Eleven
- Fiat Abarth 595
- Fiat Abarth 124 Spider
- Ferrari 812 Superfast
- Ferrari SF90 Stradale
- Ferrari F8 Tributo
- Ferrari 488
- Ferrari Portofino
- Alfa Romeo Giulietta
- Lamborghini Urus
- Peugeot 308 GTi"
Since this post, we've got : The Urus, the 812 Superfast and the F8 Tributo, it's also quite interesting considering the Panda and Coupé Turbo plus rumor, we can maybe predict some more Fiat, like the 124 Spider or the 595 in this list.
With the recent addition of the Suzuki Carry, the Alto Works doesn't seems very odd in this list.
I'm not counting on the Lotus though since there is a licencing problem
- 1,314
- United Kingdom
- theufc33
If you enable the HUD in the replay, you can view the tyres that each car is running in the field.
You will see that none of the AI cars are running Racing: Soft. They are running Racing: Hard.
It is possible that the game is still equipping softs in terms of the tyre performance data, but the UI still says hard, but if you test this by putting Sports tyres on a car that comes with Comfort tyres, and check the replay in photo mode, the AI will still be running on Comfort tyres, even though you assigned them a car using Sports tyres.
With custom races and boost (it's ideal for competitiveness but as expected it does adjust pace, so it's not neutral in that sense), and slipstream trains, it muddies the tests.
You would be best to set up a one-make. Particularly against Sophy if you can. Disable Boost, as if you turn Boost off, you should experience the same thing since the rubberbanding attached to Boost Off kicks in when you are behind, if I recall correctly.
If you do a Gr.3 one make with only a few opponents, and equip every AI car with Racing: Soft tyres, including your own, you should have a considerable pace advantage due to the extra grip, that the AI won't have because they'll be running Racing: Hard tyres.
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- 4,206
- London, Ontario
- voodoovaj
Except that you've assumed the tires match the read out, ergo you think the tires won't change, but that make no logical sense. The tires are part of the setup of the car, and if the AI use all the rest of the settings, why would tires be excluded?
However, the game could very well improperly display the current tires, because the display is different system from the car's settings. The tire read out is likely pulling data from the car's default settings rather than the current settings.
It's easy for anyone to test. Take one of your custom races and boost a car with better tires, then watch that car perform better. Or handicap a car and watch it perform worse. If you change the tires, the car's performance changes. Like, take a GR3 race and the CH tires on one of the cars. Watch what happens. Make a field full of cars where you set the tires to SS, and then drive around with SH. You'll be handicapped. Or, if you prefer, boost a few cars with softer tires as I did in my example. Those cars will perform better.
I've seen this behaviour many times, which is why I'm surprised that people say the tire changes aren't working.
You can't tell me that it's an AMAZING coincidence that the cars I boosted with RS tires are also the one that just happen to be slicing through the field. I've seen this many times. The rest of my custom races are set to SS tires, and there is not crazy disparity in the cars as there would be if they were using their defaults.
- 3,325
- United Kingdom
Ok. What logical sense does it make that, in every other facet of the game, the read out matches reality. But not in the case of AI tires?
It's no bigger of a 'leap' than it is to assume they don't use the right tires at all. It's a bit of a disingenuous take to say that it's an assumption about logical sense when you've just applied the exact same falacy in reverse.
For what it's worth, I haven't noticed them 'outperform' their tires, so to speak. It says RH and looks like RH.
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- 333
- Mount Vernon, WA
- esoterik_ex80
- 1,314
- United Kingdom
- theufc33
Please excuse the washed out video, it will process into properly mapped HDR in the next day or so, but in this video you can see that the Gr.3 AI cars are running Racing: Hard even though they're using my car, which has Comfort: Hards on it.
And beyond just the visual output, you can tell from the performance of the AI cars that they do indeed have Racing: Hards, and their tyre sticker confirms it's visually racing tyres as well.
The race starts at 1:13 in the video, before that is me showing the car I'm using and the event setup and confirming that my car is running Comfort: Hard tyres before starting the race.
- 4,206
- London, Ontario
- voodoovaj
Because it takes time. So here it is.
Here is everyone on RH for reference (1 lap). You're watching for the white BMW and Yellow Merc.
In this video, I set the white BMW and Yellow EVO to CH tires (the game said CS, which is their default). With me on RH, those cars are enormously out matched and dropped to the back fast. I pass all four before the end of the lap. Take note of how the Yellow Merc blows the corner at the top of the hill, which it does not do in any of the other examples.
Here, I fit myself with CS tires, but I fit the BMW and Merc with SS tires. They are still disadvantaged compared to the other Sophy cars, but faster than I am. If we are all on CS tires, I could keep pace.
Lastly, I put myself on SS. The BMW and Merc already had SS from the previous example. Note that now, I am on par with those cars. If they were on CS tires, rather than SS tires, I'd be able to blow past pretty easy.
And of course, there's the earlier video of me chasing those cars when they had RS tires on them. So, it appears to me, based on the performance differences, the HUD is incorrectly reporting the tires. We all know there are other variables that affect the races, but there's no way the tires settings are being ignored. If fact, if the settings were being ignored, why would all these cars with CS defaults be so obviously fitted with RH.
Almost all of my custom races are set up with everything on SS tires. How would that possible work if there were a tire change bug? It seems pretty obvious to me that the problem is in the HUD, not the car set up.
This is showing that the visuals are broken, not the performance of the tire change. You're going slow, but so are all the other cars. You need to throw in a car with different tires.
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- 1,314
- United Kingdom
- theufc33
Dude. I am on Comfort: Hard tyres. The best AI in the world cannot brake with Racing: Hard performance and grip on comfort tyres. I am going slow because if I have zero traction on comfort hards, meanwhile the AI are blasting off into the distance.
If you want I can record a whole race from their perspective.
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- 333
- Mount Vernon, WA
- esoterik_ex80
You did NOT post a video showing what all the cars have (tires). You just showed what tires you are using. It's a moot point anyway, since now you seem to be on this "the UI is lying" kick. Furthermore, this proves to me that the problem is with both your driving and your perception of what is happening. It could also have something to do with what boost setting you are using (for the AI). The road cars all seem to default to their stock tires (typically CM or CS, but can be a sport tire in some cases), and racing vehicles default to their stock tires (usually RH or RM, or RS on Super Formula and the like). You have not shown anything that disproves this. YOU can set YOUR car (i.e the one you are driving) to whatever tires you want and they will stay that way. However, the AI cars will default to either a comfort/sport tire (road cars), or racing compound (race cars). So far any and all testing seems to support this.
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- 4,206
- London, Ontario
- voodoovaj
🤔 Those are all road cars. Anyone who wants to make a classic DTM has to buy road cars and convert them. The Merc, BMW, and Sierra are all street cars and their default is CS. So "defaulting" to road tires is inaccurate. You can see with your own eyes the difference between street tires and race tires in those videos. It's clear as day that the cars I pointed to as having street tires are visibly slower.
I tried a GR3 race with all Peugeots and the tires didn't matter. I used CH, CH, SS, RH, and RS and it didn't make a difference at all, everything drive like it was on RH.
Now, I can buy that fitting anything from CH-SS will simply give you a default. But you'd have to be blind to say switching to race tires doesn't work. You can definitely swap to RH at the bare minimum on the street cars.
If you need, I'll post a video tomorrow on the display read out. It says RH for all those DTM cars, and CS for the ones with street tires.
- 1,314
- United Kingdom
- theufc33
The car is still classed as a road car. Adding race car parts does not change it to a race car in the eyes of the game.
You can add Racing: Hard tyres to road cars, and the AI will indeed drive with those. But they will not run other racing compounds except the default tyres, unless they come with tyres softer than Racing: Hard, in which case, they will only use those tyres which it came with.
Given that in all my tests, the game has never internally given AI cars the actual tyre I assigned, unless it is Racing: Hard, and it has been 1:1 with the visual UI marker, I would be surprised if road cars were the exception to this in so far as internally using tyres other than Racing: Hard, even if on the UI, it says their default tyres.
I'll run a race tomorrow to confirm that the tyre difference is indeed 1:1 with the UI for non-racing tyres.
- 53,223
- Australia
- SpacedustDaddy
The main thing with Regular AI(Reggie) is that all aids are on. TCS, Counter Steering, Stability control, ABS and tank mode that does not allow AI to be rammed off track. That would be the main reason AI have an advantage during Grid Starts and inclement weather.
SOPHY only uses ABS. However, SOPHY has the advantage of running near perfect lines every single lap and being able to adjust trajectory.
I’ll see if I can post one video with one of my SOPHY cars lagging behind because I forgot to refit racing brakes to that car. It was always going off track with its Group A tune.
SOPHY only uses ABS. However, SOPHY has the advantage of running near perfect lines every single lap and being able to adjust trajectory.
I’ll see if I can post one video with one of my SOPHY cars lagging behind because I forgot to refit racing brakes to that car. It was always going off track with its Group A tune.
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- 434
- England
Looking forward to people making this livery
- 6,150
- United Kingdom
- Fezzik1983
- Fezzik1983
It's a pity the TGR Cup has ended. We would have got it (and the car) for free.
- 4,206
- London, Ontario
- voodoovaj
Well, this is part of my confusion. People we implying street tires for street cars, and race tires for race cars. Obviously that's not the case since these are all street cars with race tires.
Vid 1 - Confirming the RH compound on these cars. So, street cars with racing tires. Just to sweep that issue away.
Vid 2 - Despite changing the setting for the yellow Merc to SS (as I show on my car), the AI version maintains RH. FYI, it might be a bit fuzzy at the beginning, but I cycle back to my car near the end to show the tires again.
Vid 3 - This one is a little longer- I exit to the garage, confirm that the Merc is still on the SS tires. Then I race and show the game says CS. This is where I start to question. The performance definitely drops off, and the game say it has CS tires. HOWEVER, note where I catch the yellow car and note it's performance.
Vid 4 - Again, I confirm the tire choice. CH this time. I entered and exited my garage a few times (not in the video) to confirm the change had occurred. The game still choses "CS" as the tire, but the performance is notably slower than the previous video and the yellow car is last by the top of the hill.
So, it seems that it's not a straightforward issue. There seems to be a disconnect between the settings changes, and when the AI accepts those changes. And, based on those last two videos, there is a slight difference in the street tire choices.
Again, I want to confirm that I could not repeat this with the GR3 cars.
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- 89,168
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
- 1,314
- United Kingdom
- theufc33
The yellow car doesn’t look last place to me, and it looks like it just had a bad exit. It’s hard to get a proper idea when they’re pack racing.
On why, when you changed to Sports: Soft, the AI stayed on RH, if you change tyres without going into the “Select from Garage” option again and re-generating the grid by swapping to “Random” and then “Select from Garage”, the AI tyres will not change.*
*Do note that re-generating the grid is a for sure way to get the AI to change tyre compounds, in this case it would go back to the vehicle defaults since you are on Sports: Soft, but simply pressing X in the custom race settings while in the pre-race menu, where you hear the cars racing by, this action alone may update the AI tyres if your car is assigned to multiple AI. You may not need to re-generate the grid and add the names again.
I’m not sure how tyres would work if you loaded a custom race settings sheet while in the pre-race menu, I don’t know if that would also change the AI tyres for the same car as yours back to vehicle default since you would be on Sports: Soft at the time of loading the sheet.
If it does, then it would save having to re-do the grid names and positions to confirm the tyre changes or to get them back on the vehicle default if you wanted to, or to get them back on Racing: Hards if they were on vehicle defaults.
- 4,206
- London, Ontario
- voodoovaj
Yes, some people were saying this, and some people were not. I just want to make sure we're all on the same page.
This post for instance -> https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...ws-and-discussion-thread.394098/post-14453132
There is bug, for sure, as shown in my 3rd video above. I changed tires to SS, the AI (in the same car) maintains RH...it doesn't go to CS (this car's default). Then, in the next video, I exit and come back, and it's obvious the tires have changed. The game says CS and the behavior suggests a harder tire.
I've seen the Sophy fail to load styles for some cars, so there is a bug in the loading. Maybe cars are loading with the wrong tires as well. I get that the weak boost muddies the water on what tires the cars have on, and changing tires on the fly might be one of the ways the boost works (I don't know).
All I am saying is that I have seen the behaviour of the cars change, and that happens to coincide with tire changes, although granted, it is inconsistent.
