Gran Turismo 7 Physics

Do you want more detailed and realistic physics on the next GT


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So any car nuts out there know what makes the Gr4 cars so much more grippy than their road brethren?
I am by no means an expert on tuning (don't even like it actually), but conventional motorsports wisdom would say that tires, suspension and downforce would be your priority handling-wise.
 
Having spent more and more time with the game I still stand by the fact the physics seem squiffy.

I know theres macho men in these comments will be like nah bro this is exactly how things are irl, and you have to be a sadist like us to appreciate the struggle.

But frankly I think its a case of the Emperors new clothes going on. Nobody wants to address the elephant in the room that the physics are not right for what is essentially at the end of the day a game.

While I appreciate the grip levels of certain tyres and corners and certain cars will slide and kill a man with 1% too much braking and 1% too much steering angle, 1mm too much throttle. But let's not ignore that in the real world you would have a thousand bits of tactile feedback ques to tell you exactly what's going on under your buttocks.

In game we have none, but a wheel going light and visual ques that the wall is coming closer.

In PDs goals to create an even closer to real experience they've made it more numb than watching a live action lap on YouTube and being asked to feel where the grip is...

Like I've been saying I've finally got to the point where the game is playable by turning on TCS and Stability control... I say playable because is it as fun to take a car to the limit than it was in sport? Not at all. So I'm essentially going through the motions while the assists cancel out every twitch and numb every bit of feedback.

The flip side? Well I ran a stock 117bhp 1st gen MX5 around Maggiore and every single corner it would spin like a 1000bhp monster... every single time. Full throttle, half throttle, 1/4 throttle even no throttle that tiny perfectly balanced roadster would snap violently into a spin, no over steer, just a full on spin... it even did it at 23mph with not throttle input. So what's with that? The stability control light flickering or solid throughout even on straight roads...

I've had many friends with MX5s stock and tuned... all of them still alive and well without incident, one even lapped the Ring in his. These are normal folks not Fangio yet you guys out there are honestly going to sit there and tell us that my mates were spinning out of control at car park speeds all the time? Because GT7 says so.

Look I know I'm ranting because I'm disappointed and frustrated that there's no fix to make this game fun to play. I dont want to have to stick all the assists on just to make it around a track? Never did that before in any GT game for the past 25 years.

As the old saying goes... im not angry,

I'm just disappointed.
 
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I am by no means an expert on tuning (don't even like it actually), but conventional motorsports wisdom would say that tires, suspension and downforce would be your priority handling-wise.
All of which I did. Though, to be fair I really need to compare like for like. Like an NSX Gr4 vs. road going NSX, then I can copy the setup from the Gr4 car to the road car and compare. I'd like to know if you can get them handling in a similar fashion, or if there is something fundamental to Group cars that you'll never be able to replicate on GT7 with a road car.
 
Hey, you are right. Nice that you can still remember me. I was in the european final 2018. After that I realized that it was too time consuming with a small family and my health was getting worse so that I wasn't able to continue playing GT Sport on this level.
Definitely something to be proud of.

I can't believe how pixel perfect the top dozen drivers are nowadays but after seeing you lot enjoying the inaugural finals, they've had to be. Crazy standard.

I see there's maintenance tomorrow that mentioned something about an update. Fingers crossed it gets rid of some the frustration.
 
The flip side? Well I ran a stock 117bhp 1st gen MX5 around Maggiore and every single corner it would spin like a 1000bhp monster... every single time. Full throttle, half throttle, 1/4 throttle even no throttle that tiny perfectly balanced roadster would snap violently into a spin, not over steer a full on spin... it even did it at 23mph with not throttle input. So what's with that? The stability control light flickering or solid throughout even on straight roads...

I've had many friends with MX5s stock and tuned... all of them still alive and well without incident, one even lapped the Ring in his. These are normal folks not Fangio yet you guys out there are honestly going to sit there and tell us that my mates were spinning out of control are car park speeds all the time? Because GT7 says so.
There is a video on this thread a little while back of someone taking the MX5 round the track in GT7 without issue. I used it too in game with very little mods (I think only SS tyres tbh) and it wasn't particularly hard to get round without binning it. You make it sound impossible but I think you may be exaggerating a little, no?
 
All of which I did. Though, to be fair I really need to compare like for like. Like an NSX Gr4 vs. road going NSX, then I can copy the setup from the Gr4 car to the road car and compare. I'd like to know if you can get them handling in a similar fashion, or if there is something fundamental to Group cars that you'll never be able to replicate on GT7 with a road car.
I doubt you can get a 1:1 match between a tuned road car and a GT4 car. My understanding of SRO rules for GT4 is that they are not road cars modded to become race cars. They are purpose-built for competition. Even teams can make their own; they don't have to buy it from a manufacturer. So in essence, attempting to tune a road car into a GT4 car would not work because the road version and the GT4 version are not the same car even though they share some similarities.

Of course, we really don't have much of an idea of how all these mods have been programmed by PD. Maybe a racing suspension tune for a road car is modeled differently than a racing suspension included in a Gr 4 car.
 
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Nah, I booted up GTS last night and took the exact same road car for a spin. Increased power and decreased weight to match. And made the setup the same. Same RH tyres. It's far more controllable in terms of oversteer on GTS. But it also feels a lot more lifeless.
Exactly, road car.

I said race car, gr3 and gr4 etc.

Next time read what is written before replying.
 
R3V
I was wrong.

1.1s from 262 kmh down to 181 kmh in both. Same grip I guess. Seems the demo run lifts, coasts and brakes longer then turn the wheel fully while 100% brake (albeit at a lower speed). I'm used to trailbraking early to point the nose towards the corner and have some oversteer carry me out.

I wish we had GT6's data logger, or every other game's replay feature so you can replay each corner to figure out how to get it right in each car/game.


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I figured that out to.

Even braking early and coasting is a better strategy than what I used to do which was brake to the apex from high speed. It’s nuanced with my ham fists but lifting first and then braking is paying dividends for me. It’s a control shift I’m coming to terms with, also coasting more especially in sweeping corners.
 
I doubt you can get a 1:1 match between a tuned road car and a GT4 car. My understanding of SRO rules for GT4 is that they are not road cars modded to become race cars. They are purpose-built for competition. Even teams can make their own; they don't have to buy it from a manufacturer. So in essence, attempting to tune a road car into a GT4 car would not work because the road version and the GT4 version are not the same car even though they share some similarities.
Ah right, well that's what I was wondering. I would assume they are the same chassis, no? So what makes them fundamentally different? Assuming I'm modding the road car with a full racing setup (weight reduction, body rigidity, LSD, brakes, full suspension, etc...). I'd love to know.
 
VERY IMPORTANT MESSAGE!

There seems to be a bug, that could explain oversteery behavior of RWD cars. "Body height adjustment" seems to been interpreted inversely by the game, meaning that with more height you get more stability, which is absurd I guess. It's described in this post https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/bugged-ride-height-improve-handling.405372/

I've tested it and it seems to by true. I cranked body height all the way up, and tested with several RWD cars and they appear to no longer completely snap out of control with slightest oversteer even with 0 TCS, though you still have to be gentle with throttle input. And inversely, the less I put the height parameter the worse it gets with steering. Anyways, you should all try with your car setup and see if this is actually the case.
 
Ah right, well that's what I was wondering. I would assume they are the same chassis, no? So what makes them fundamentally different? Assuming I'm modding the road car with a full racing setup (weight reduction, body rigidity, LSD, brakes, full suspension, etc...). I'd love to know.
No, they are not the same chassis. GT4 cars are made with more rigid chassis for handling.
 
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So any car nuts out there know what makes the Gr4 cars so much more grippy than their road brethren?

I'd be keen to see if you can mod a road car to handle more like a Gr4 car by doing certain upgrades and tuning adjustments. I tried a bit last night with the 911 GT3 '01. I even threw on a ballast and cranked it to the max and right to the front, to get a 48:52 weight bias (car is obviously very rear heavy by default). Increased spring stiffness and camber. Felt a lot better, but still nowhere near as grippy as the Gr4 cars.
The difference between a road car and a group 4 car is chassis.
 
Hmm tried this mission just now and I got gold 2nd try. the car oversteer balance seemed ok, it's very close to GT sport and manageable to me. I got around 4.6K point at the end after tidying up my drift line. here's a video of how I did it, might help you out.


impressive, there's no way i'm able to do that i've been trying for an hour I can't even get bronze :( what wheel do you have and what assists if any?
 
As someone who has done 30+ track events and spent 1000s of hours in sims, I can say GT7s physics engine is about 90% there, but misses out in two major areas. First one being when you're right at the edge of grip and the second being when you're beyond it. I drive an e92 m3 IRL and for having 400hp+, it's way more progressive in losing grip and controllable than GT7. I can almost steer the car with the throttle when I'm at the edge of rear grip. In GT7 that's impossible. Once traction breaks, it requires much more steering angle than IRL and much less throttle than IRL. It also snaps the opposite direction way too easily, which is why you see videos of players swinging from left to right. The tire takes much longer to regain traction as well. This is more noticeable in the rain events. I'm almost tempted to not use the wheel as it will develop a bad habit in my driving.

Just my 2 cents.
 
Everyone should keep in mind the physics in GTS were adjusted a few times, it will happen again with GT7 sooner or later.

They wiped all the leaderboards for single player events too, at least twice iirc.
 
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Having spent more and more time with the game I still stand by the fact the physics seem squiffy.

I know who macho men in these comments will be like nah bro this is exactly how things are irl, and you have to be a sadist like us to appreciate the struggle.

But frankly I think its a case of the Emperors new clothes going on. Nobody wants to address the elephant in the room that the physics are not right for what is essentially at the end of the day a game.

While I appreciate the grip levels of certain tyres and corners and certain cars will slide and kill a man with 1% too much braking and 1% too much steering angle let's not ignore that in the real world you would have a thousand bits of tactile feedback ques to tell you exactly what's going on under your buttocks.

In game we have none but a wheel going light and visual ques that the wall is coming closer.

In PDs goals to create an even closer to real experience they've made it more numb than watching a live action lap on YouTube and being asked to feel where the grip is...

Like I've been saying I've finally got to the point where the game is playable by turning on TCS and Stability control... I say playable because is it as fun to take a car to the limit than it was in sport? Not at all. So I'm essentially going through the motions while the assists cancel out every twitch and numb every bit of feedback.

The flip side? Well I ran a stock 117bhp 1st gen MX5 around Maggiore and every single corner it would spin like a 1000bhp monster... every single time. Full throttle, half throttle, 1/4 throttle even no throttle that tiny perfectly balanced roadster would snap violently into a spin, not over steer a full on spin... it even did it at 23mph with not throttle input. So what's with that? The stability control light flickering or solid throughout even on straight roads...

I've had many friends with MX5s stock and tuned... all of them still alive and well without incident, one even lapped the Ring in his. These are normal folks not Fangio yet you guys out there are honestly going to sit there and tell us that my mates were spinning out of control are car park speeds all the time? Because GT7 says so.

Look I know I'm ranting because I'm disappointed and frustrated that there's no fix to make this game fun to play. I dont want to have to stick all the assists on just to make it around a track? Never did that before in any GT game for the past 25 years.

As the old saying goes... im not angry,

I'm just disappointed.
I hear everything your saying but I think your beating yourself up for no reason… I’m telling you I drive in a Porsche GT3 Cup league right here on GTP, some of these guys are aliens and everyone is a little nervous because we all know the physics are alive and pushing the car that we normally push at is going to lead to some interesting things 😂 at the same time we are all excited because the driving experience we all feel is way better than GTS!

I Gold all my license test bro and if a car had TC I used it.. I never used TC in GTS either but I don’t see why you feel it’s a bad thing it’s a good thing! If we took everyone in here at a track 8/10 would not turn the electronic aids of the car… finally GT has went into the right step even if it seems aggressive right now.

I’m doing the pan American championship right now with my ZL1 Camera 1LE it’s stock with RM and I use TCS 2 and I’m having a great time! Just keep practicing you will eventually get it!
 
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Exactly, road car.

I said race car, gr3 and gr4 etc.

Next time read what is written before replying.
Woah, chill man. I'll test again with sport tyres in each and compare.
No, they are not the same chassis. Race cars are made with more rigid chassis for handling.
The difference between a road car and a group 4 car is chassis.
Ah right, that explains a lot then. Thanks! Maybe the body rigidity upgrade would help then?
 
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That depends on the regulations, some most certainly have to be a stuck chassis straight off the production line
That is true, but we were specifically talking about GT4. Edited my OP for clarity.
 
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Oh, now another opinion... lol. What about Group 4?
Do you mean GT4 cars as in reality or Group 4 cars as in the ones that PD have half made up?

If its the former, then yes the chassis must remain 100% original as per the technical regs.
 
Just reading how @MadmuppGT is struggling with the stock Miata which I don’t believe he is making things up or being unfair, but in the end the car is not hard to drive. This again does not take from the fact if he is having trouble catching on to the new physics, however it also does not make it automatically where something is wrong with the game. Yes the cars are a lot more lively. And GTS style of driving is going to not make driving the cars any easier. The game has not been out for a week and just because people caught on to the physics already means nothing. Just keep practicing and As others and I said I’m willing to help anyone we can set up a track day and practice together!
 
That is true, but we were specifically talking about GT4.
The AMG GT GT4 actually is very close to the production chassis, mainly with just more reinforcement with the roll cage. Talked with FCP Euro who runs them this past summer and I was pretty shocked wirh the amount that they share when the road car. It’s definitely possible to make a road car as fast or even faster than a GT4 for sure. The class that I race in actually runs a bit faster than GT4 at the front with street tires. But we also run more downforce and more power. With slicks the pace would be somewhere between GT4 and GT3. The main reason why it’s tough to make a road car identical in performance to a GT4 with an identical setup is the suspension, access to data and the ability to read that data in order to setup the car properly, and a few other factors such as weight and rigidity. Having a team of engineers and factory support certainly helps too. But that’s the case in the real world, I’m not sure how accurately you could replicate a GT4 with a road car in game.

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Here’s the two chassis compared:
E6FB8E91-957F-4A22-9C8E-4D948DF58CBE.jpeg

F141BA1C-F712-42D7-B2B2-B31EE8B96E23.jpeg

As you can see they’re very similar
 
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Here...



...under the bodywork, as it's a unibody construction that's what it comes under, its almost exactly the same in the BTCC/TCR regs which make up most of Gr. 4, as well as the GT3/GTE regs that make up a lot of Gr. 3.

It's only really when you get to the likes of JCTC, Super GT, and older (pre-GT3 adoption) DTM and the use of spaceframes that you start to get wildly away from base chassis being primarily homologation chassis.

Yes in some cases they do have additional or reinforced seam-welding, but that would be replicated by the chassis stiffness option,

It doesn't change the fact that they are still essentially the exact same chassis.
 
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Just reading how @MadmuppGT is struggling with the stock Miata which I don’t believe he is making things up or being unfair, but in the end the car is not hard to drive. This again does not take from the fact if he is having trouble catching on to the new physics, however it also does not make it automatically where something is wrong with the game. Yes the cars are a lot more lively. And GTS style of driving is going to not make driving the cars any easier. The game has not been out for a week and just because people caught on to the physics already means nothing. Just keep practicing and As others and I said I’m willing to help anyone we can set up a track day and practice together!
The weird grip loss can happen at all sorts of speeds and I've felt it happen in every FR car.

On another subject, has anyone felt like their brakes are locking up with ABS on? It happened to me a few times in the M3's and the '09 Porche today (dry track) and it felt very realistic. The brake light barely flickered to red while it happened so does that mean I had no ABS at the time?
 
It doesn't change the fact that they are still essentially the exact same chassis.
I believe it is the materials that change between the road version and the GT4. The GT4 cars tend to use more expensive, lighter, more rigid materials (carbon fibre, aluminum, etc...) from what I could gather on the manufacturers' websites.

Anyway @s0cks there is the additional question mark that Scaff mentioned, which is: what exactly is a Gr. 4 car? PD bases them on GT4 cars but who knows to what degree.
 
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