Gran Turismo 7 Physics

[M Stark]

FR road cars that previously were underivable are now pretty fun to drive. Any BMW for example, and the Ferrari Superfast. Yes, you can actually drive a stock Superfast now with the default setup.

FFB feels great as well. Huge difference.

 

[PorscheHD]

Also.....

People want more sim in GT want maar ACC etc bud they need to understand its not such a game. GT has always bin this..... And i dont want it to be more sim. ACC is for me to serious for example.

I just want to enjoy my racing and cars and that is what GT is and always was and needs to stay. The whole online thing i dont do anymore. To toxic and i hate it that there are people always 3 seconds faster that drive in the front. In Sport i could win often but in GT7 i dont. Dont know why, maybe matchmaking.... I dont know.

All those YouTubers who are negative now are way to serious and need to play more serious games if the want to have what the ask. GT needs to stay GT.

 

[Zefram]

Hello,

I’m a controller player with over 377 hours in GT7, and unfortunately the 1.71 physics update has completely changed the game for me — and not in a good way.

Cars now feel far too forgiving. I tested a Porsche 911 Turbo S Leichtbau (964) on the Nürburgring, a car that previously required me to be progressive and careful, it was so enjoyable. Now I can be much more aggressive, slide, run onto the grass and recover with nearly no consequences. I initially thought the Sport Soft tyres might explain it, so I went back to Sport Hard tyres. It didn’t. I could still drive most of the circuit with very little throttle management.

I then tried a Lancer Evo on dirt. Same problem. There is almost no sensation of sliding or managing the available grip. The car seems to simply follow the road instead of moving around underneath me.

The worst example for me was Tokyo Expressway in the wet. I used to clearly feel the wet surface, tyre degradation and the load through the corners. Now I don’t feel it anymore. The feedback, sense of weight, changing grip levels and need to carefully manage the car were a HUGE part of what made GT7 enjoyable to me.

But there is another part of this update that I find extremely frustrating: what it has done to months of setups and testing.

My Aston Martin DP-100 is a perfect example. I had a dedicated Tokyo Expressway WTC600 setup that I had developed and used extensively. Before 1.71 it was around 599 PP. Without me changing the setup, after the update it became 613.07 PP, making it ineligible for the 600 PP event.

The car was running ECU 86% and power restrictor 78%. To get it back under the limit after 1.71, I had to reduce the ECU all the way from 86% to 78%, which brought it down to 598 PP. Of course, it is no longer the same car I spent all that time developing. On my first attempt with the modified setup, I could only finish third, 8.498 seconds behind the winner.

And this is what bothers me perhaps even more than the easier physics.

I have spent hours and hours and HOURS testing cars and setups, doing lap after lap just to find a few tenths of a second. Changing something, going back on track, comparing the result, refining it again. Some of those cars became cars I absolutely loved driving because of the balance I had eventually found.

That was a huge part of GT7 for me.

Now the underlying physics and PP calculations have changed, so the setups remain written on the setup sheets, but the cars I created with them effectively don’t exist anymore. Their balance can be different, their PP can be different, their eligibility can be different, and the sensations I spent all those hours refining are different.

The result of all that work feels like it has simply been wiped out.

I genuinely don’t understand how you can make such a fundamental change to a game several years after release without considering what it does to players who have spent hundreds of hours building, testing and refining their cars.

For me, it almost feels as if someone has deleted the GT7 I had been playing for 377+ hours and replaced it with another game while keeping my save file.

Yes, 1.71 may make GT7 easier and more accessible on a controller. I understand why some people like that. But I don’t want the cars to be easier to control. I want to feel what they’re doing. I want the wet track, tyre degradation, weight transfer and mistakes to matter.

At this point, I don’t want to continue playing. GT7 hasn’t simply become easier for me. It has lost the driving experience that kept me playing for more than 377 hours, while simultaneously invalidating a huge amount of the work I put into my cars.

For me, it has lost its flavour.

I was happy playing Forza Horizon 5 for fun and GT7 for its more demanding handling. GT7 has lost its personality. If a player wants an easy experience, alternatives to GT7 exist. GT7 doesn't need to become a casual game.

 

[Haitauer]

I might be starting to put my finger on it. It is very possible they have just "faked" more progressive grip by massively widening the useful slip angle of the tire. It feel like its not at all more progressive or granular - its just wider and forgiving. FFB (DD PRO) cant seem to report any grip changes within the working slip/steering angle. This wide usable slip angle also induces the massive steering angles we currently have. Feels almost if the wheels have steering angles made for gamepads. I hope this is just the first version of the new physics. If they dial in the angles and grip multipliers there might be something here. The at the moment dog slow MR cars seem to have more dynamic oversteer-understeer behaviour at the limit, and this gives me some hope what it might become.

 

[Alfa Romeo GT]

As I said in the update thread:

Personally, I have a completely different opinion when using a steering wheel.

I can finally position the vehicle exactly where I want it
(within the limits of the vehicle and its chassis), just like with a car—as is the case with Assetto Evo, for example, which is incredible with production cars.

The vehicles finally seem to have tires and grip, which allows for much more realistic handling.

It’s hard to explain, but I no longer have that feeling of being on a train ready to derail at any moment, with the sensation of scraping the ground at the slightest strain on the tires... less on-off.

Now I’m having much more fun with street cars, and I’ve started driving just for the fun of it—something I couldn’t do before this update.

That said, I haven't driven much yet; maybe over the long term, with other vehicles, I'll find this new physics to be a bit off.


However, there’s one major downside for me, and it applies to all three of these cars: during hard braking, the vehicles start sliding all over the place as if I were braking on ice.
The cars are stock, and if they behaved like this in real life, Misha would have been dead a long time ago.
I do have a bit of ABS, but I still lose control of the car completely very easily.
I know this kind of behavior can happen in real life, but I’m not sure it’s exactly like it is in GT7.

Otherwise, I would have died countless times in real life.

 

[Haitauer]

As I said in the update thread:

Personally, I have a completely different opinion when using a steering wheel.

I can finally position the vehicle exactly where I want it
(within the limits of the vehicle and its chassis), just like with a car—as is the case with Assetto Evo, for example, which is incredible with production cars.

The vehicles finally seem to have tires and grip, which allows for much more realistic handling.

It’s hard to explain, but I no longer have that feeling of being on a train ready to derail at any moment, with the sensation of scraping the ground at the slightest strain on the tires... less on-off.

Now I’m having much more fun with street cars, and I’ve started driving just for the fun of it—something I couldn’t do before this update.

That said, I haven't driven much yet; maybe over the long term, with other vehicles, I'll find this new physics to be a bit off.


However, there’s one major downside for me, and it applies to all three of these cars: during hard braking, the vehicles start sliding all over the place as if I were braking on ice.
The cars are stock, and if they behaved like this in real life, Misha would have been dead a long time ago.
I do have a bit of ABS, but I still lose control of the car completely very easily.
I know this kind of behavior can happen in real life, but I’m not sure it’s exactly like it is in GT7.

Otherwise, I would have died countless times in real life.

I suspect the more forgiving tire slip angles just make it easier to find that "sweet spot" even in street cars. But I dont think there is more detail there - its just a bigger flat spot.

 

[PorscheHD]

And as long the nr1 in the Nordschleife time trail is 30seconds faster where i am 1 second under the silver time i think people already adjust to it 😂 aliens......

 

[Voodoovaj]

I did some testing with the Suzuki Carry last night, though I did not solve the riddle as to why a fully modded carry nearly stops in the corners (and this occurs with some other cars).

I grabbed the stock Carry and ran with that. Although not fast by any means, they seems to react more normally to corners. This leads me to believe there is something in the race suspension that the AI doesn't like. I initially thought is might have been the diff, but no.

I'm going to have to play with camber and toe. I am assuming, at this point, that the addition of slip angle is causing the AI to believe it has lost control, and slams on the brakes. There might be a change of setup that helps this.

Still, overall, I disagree with the "dull" feeling. Granted, I have spent the better part of the last year fiddling with AI races. I will say this, especially in regard to Sophy, the changes make Sophy races much more interesting (for the most part). Sophy makes more mistakes now. It feels more like real people (without the headache of being dirty).

 

[sumbrownkid]

Just wanna put this out there.

I remember Kaz saying a long time ago that cars in reality aren’t as hard to drive as sims can make them out to be. And I had that thought when I was driving a mix of cars again last night (2017 NSX, 296 GT3, 499P). Before at stock the 296 GT3 and 499P were so readily and eager to go into oversteer on throttle, same with the NSX. Which was odd because I don’t really think any driver who driven them in real life mentioned them to be difficult to drive at speed. They were supposed to be cars that are easy to control.

Now we have an update that imo makes them feel closer to what I suspect they drive like in reality and the people disagreeing saying they don’t feel as realistic anymore. So I have to ask, maybe sims aren’t as accurate as we think? Because I have come across posts made by people who track cars say this physics change makes it closer to what they experience on their track days.

I want to see if SuperGT will make a video on it cause he has at least driven a GT4 car in competition, and maybe even Jimmy Broadbent since he has driven a real GT3 car recently.

But again I think the physics is a bit more believable in the power oversteer and gradual loss of grip side of things now. Braking I don’t know, on some cars like the 499P I feel it’s way stronger, on others like the NSX GT500 2000 I felt it was more or less the same as before.

 

[Haitauer]

Some of the hardcore players should test GT7 with stock non-BOP GR.3 with sport tires. Shows the physics a lot more. Tested the Ferrari 296 GR.3, and it was pretty nice with sport mediums and hards. Also my Porsche Cup spec(ish) 992 was very enjoyable at the Nurb with comfort soft tires. Throw in comfort mediums, and you are in AC1.

Yes there is a safety layer in play at the moment. The usable slip angle is quite wide. But once they dial it in with correct amount and curve, the physics maybe arent half bad.

I suspect PDI has thrown few "safety layer" on to keep the game some what playable to average Joe while they dine tune the physics. First there is the very wide and flat degree of slip angle to give grip and help with the saves, then there is propably quite high grip multiplier on the tires and in addition they seem to have nerfed down every car in BOP with some very dull setups. Especially MR cars have some seriously handicapped setups. I believe othervice they would be massively overpowered against other cars. You can kind of feel the nimbleness in the porsche and ferrari, but the edges has been taken off with pretty extreme bop setups. I do believe this is temporary, and the "Hyundai era" is merely a marketing troll that will pass come next bop update.

 

[Voodoovaj]

Before at stock the 296 GT3 and 499P were so readily and eager to go into oversteer on throttle, same with the NSX. Which was odd because I don’t really think any driver who driven them in real life mentioned them to be difficult to drive at speed. They were supposed to be cars that are easy to control.

THIS - Any reviewer of the real cars will tell you about all the computer systems that keep the cars under control. This would be the experience that we are supposed to have in game. Many of today's cars use a variety of stabilization systems. Even a Golf has them!

Too many "sim" make the cars impossible to drive. What is difficult supposed to be difficult is driving them fast enough to get a fast lap.

 

[Pie O My]

Only had a few hours experience with it so far, but....there's less of a need to switch to "Gran Turismo driving mode" coming from a few laps on AC PS4 edition.

Since I don't have a gaming PC, that's my go to reference for how a car should handle. And when I would switch games before I'd have to adjust my driving a fair bit. That hasn't been the case in my (limited) time so far.