Gran Turismo 7 Physics

[snc]

GT3 cars are apparently very hard to drive. - Good

Wihout tc on as all fast players play in gt7

 

[bigfax]

Depends. GT3 cars are apparently kind of easy to drive with proper TC. GT7 doesn't properly simulate the TC used in real GT3 cars, the only TC available is treated as an assist, and nobody uses it because they want good pace. Without it, GT3 cars are apparently very hard to drive.

Exactly. The thing that is wrong, and goes against GT3 cars is the way GT doesn't simulate assists per car basis

So it's an all encompassing assist.

 

[SPOOLMAN]

Top split drivers rather despise new physics (more arcady, strange steering rotation, gr3 cars behave like gr4) also similar reaction of gtws drivers on x.

Intereting balance opinion from Random Callsign that there are good things in this update but as typical for PD they exaggerated but for sure they can adjust.

Have these people ever driven a performance car on a track at high speed? Or is the only experience they have is behind a sim rig?

The physics are objectively light years better compared to what we had.

 

[Sir Crashalot]

My experience (with controller) so far:

First I tested some street cars, stock except for tires. (I usually use SM tires on most street cars) Everything feels more nuanced, there's more body movement and weight transfer and driving indeed feels more like IRL in my opinion.
Also, driving without ABS feels so much better now!

Next I took a completely stock F-150 around the ring, to see how lower tier tires behave now. The F-150 comes on CM tires and the lap definitely wasn't fun. Almost crashed on three occasions.
Not sure if it's just this car but I'm pretty sure that the F-150 on those stock tires didn't feel that bad before the update.

Next I wanted to try some track builds. I started with my swapped Twingo, which was easy to drive around the Ring before the update. Crashed at Hatzenbach. Tried again, crashed again. Tried a third time, drove extra carefully, crashed again. Absolutely undrivable!
Then I tried my 300SL track build and was expecting the same, because I thought that the old tunes just don't work anymore and need to be updated because of the new physics.
But: The 300SL works fine! I did a pretty quick lap on first try without struggling once. The car is as amazing as it always was!

So, overall I like the new physics and feeling, but one car working absolutely fine with the old settings while others are almost undrivable and the bad experience with the stock F-150 confuse me a bit.
Of course that's just my first impression, there's much more testing to be done. Didn't even try any racecar yet.

Oh, btw, the Kart feels much better now! Before the update, on Nordschleife, any contact with grass or a curb was a death sentence. That's not the case anymore. You can recover now from getting on grass and curbs also are no problem.

 

[Fuzzi0n]

Done quite a bit more driving with the new physics across a bunch of cars and tracks and there's some good points and some stuff that needs fixing. Braking/brake bias is much better in race cars without ABS, but the flipside of that is it seems that some that run ABS now just have insane braking and super short braking distances. The Gr.1 downforce changes I'm still not a fan of, they really need to increase the range at the rear because you can't set it low enough to have a low drag setup to match real Le Mans speeds. Comfort tyres have too much grip now, seems like CS is a lot closer to SH to the point I've seen some cars get higher PP ratings on CS. Biggest issue is the one a lot of people have mentioned and it's with the steering centring itself too aggressively. Not sue if it's self aligning torque that's the issue or they put some fake centring in there but even the AI is wiggling around on straights, with a wheel it's just going to oscillate around centre and on controller it feels like it springs back super fast, especially on dirt.

With the changes I much prefer how grip loss is more progressive, along with the updated traction control it makes some of the stupidly high power RWD cars very driveable. It's also fixed a bunch of cars I previously hated because they snapped on throttle and had massive understeer off throttle. Not had much trouble setup wise, just had to do small tweaks and everything worked fine so I'd assume the people having major issues were running some really weird settings on the old physics. I remember seeing people running stuff like 1/10 roll bars and insane camber so maybe go back to more "normal" settings and see. I can't speak for how things are in sport mode with BoP because I never race online, I'd have to assume just from looking at the stock setups and how slow the cars are with BoP they'll be really boring to drive. Outside of that the changes seem like a good step but obviously still needs some work.

 

[Iso Octane]

The 458 and F430. Seems to be after a fast and long corner into a braking zone.

Okay, I experienced it trying out both cars at Suzuka. For me it was most often coming out of Dunlop curve and braking for Degner.

What I perceived it as, was that the car had some instability in the rear in the way the weight was shifting around on the suspension, and that manifested itself as communication through the FFB, and I would then make a wiggle motion with my steering wheel to counteract it.

FWIW, I took the Amuse NISMO 380 around right after and that car did not exhibit any of this behavior. So to me it's not a universal issue, but car specific or setup specific behavior based on the physics engine changes.

loud negativity on every vídeo. 1.49 was reverted, because of the awful suspension bugs. Will this be reversed too?

I'm very afraid this will happen, and will be incredibly disappointed if it does.

These physics updates are phenomenal (for road cars). I'm now going through cars in my garage to experience the differences for each because for some cars it has really changed the character of how they drive.

I completely agree with those that say the cars and tires feel much more connected with the road surface. It makes slow 2nd gear type corners much more fun now, tracks like Streets of Willow have come alive, hairpin corners like the one at Suzuka or Tsukuba, have more depth to it. I feel like less of just a passenger waiting for the car to fumble through a hairpin, and more a driver controlling and adjusting grip and line throughout.

 

[sejtur]

Tested both and have no idea how to induce this wobble some people are talking about.
---------------------
In regards of the physics, I love it. Struggling to find a car moving weirdly.

People say they want the old physics back... So the way the Pagani Zonda and the Vulcan drove before was correct??? You must not know anything about cars to think that.

These physics remind me of 1.49, very realistic compared to before, but were unfortunately met with negativity from people that unfortunately know less than optimal about cars and physics in general and are quick to plaster their loud negativity on every vídeo. 1.49 was reverted, because of the awful suspension bugs. Will this be reversed too?

For me it was on the Sardegna road course B (normal) on the inner “straight”, right before braking for the right hand uphill sharp turn. I love the new physics, just those wobbles there that felt a bit weird.

 

[bigfax]

For me it was on the Sardegna road course B (normal) on the inner “straight”, right before braking for the right hand uphill sharp turn. I love the new physics, just those wobbles there that felt a bit weird.

I'll try to see this!! Still discovering the update

 

[ScottPuss20]

After having driven a variety of cars in the last few days, I have to say that the new physics are great fun. Some cars really do behave quite differently. Take the 959 for example. Before the update, the car felt a bit too grippy and the 4WD system didn't feel like a system from the 80s. Now, you can feel the archaic torque vectoring trying it's best to mask an ordinary chassis, resulting in more sliding compared to the F40 I drove beforehand. Another car with 4WD is the Gallardo, and that expressed similar behaviours but the chassis was doing more work and the 4WD system was more refined. No longer can you point and shoot the car out of the corner and expect it to stick. The tyres will not give you the grip as quickly. You can also feel the heft of bigger cars such as the Camaro ZL1 1LE, where the weight transfer can be felt through the tyres and suspension instead of just the suspension. Coming out of turn 9 at Circuit Gilles Villenueve (an odd right hander), I could feel the left side tyres pushing down as I got back on the power and exited the corner. Want to know another good thing? Bathurst doesn't feel quite as scary to drive on anymore because the cars don't act up as much through sharp elevation changes. Drifting is also a lot easier once you get the flow down.

 

[VXR]

Had a quite wonderful race on Eiger Reverse in the European 600. I used a downtuned Caterham at 134hp on Comfort Sports and came second. I normally can't stand the uphill section before the start/finish straight, but with the new physics, it felt less disjointed and the car was flowing nicely from hairpin to hairpin.

 

[Aphelion]

The Caterham is immediately probably my favourite car to drive in the game, probably in large part thanks to the new physics. Fully tuned its absolutely hilarious fun, and surprisingly still quite driveable.

 

[NevilleNobody]

I have been watching blindingly fast streamer Calster and Youtube favourite Tidge and notice something.

They are both getting hard on the throttle BEFORE the apex, but have not finished rotating. So they chuck the car in as best they can, live with the car POINTING TOWARDS THE EDGE OF THE TRACK, they then floor it, which is fine cos the wheels are square so she takes the heavy throttle use, THEN they start a second phase of rotation once the revs are up and the car is gripped up.

Does this make sense as I have described it? Watch carefully, they don't brake, clip apex, straighten car and hit throttle. They brake, rotate, car is pointing away from apex towards the outside, hit throttle, then second rotation.

 

[Mumster]

I have been watching blindingly fast streamer Calster and Youtube favourite Tidge and notice something.

They are both getting hard on the throttle BEFORE the apex, but have not finished rotating. So they chuck the car in as best they can, live with the car POINTING TOWARDS THE EDGE OF THE TRACK, they then floor it, which is fine cos the wheels are square so she takes the heavy throttle use, THEN they start a second phase of rotation once the revs are up and the car is gripped up.

Does this make sense as I have described it? Watch carefully, they don't brake, clip apex, straighten car and hit throttle. They brake, rotate, car is pointing away from apex towards the outside, hit throttle, then second rotation.

Seems about right. I can’t seem to get the same level of grip or maybe I’m coming in too hot or maybe they are just aliens. 😂

 

[SkippyRoo]

So, has anyone experienced this with the new physics?

I was driving a stock FTO with a few power upgrades - no tuning. And, hitting the brakes not only lifted the rear, it almost got me airborne...

 

[Greycap]

Many cars feel better now, but some are completely terrible. The Honda RA272 has always been a weird one but now it's hopeless at least on tyres (tested on comfort softs) that even remotely reflect the real car's grip. Having tried the Caterham, everyone knows it's great, I expected the Honda to be mostly more of the same but with a MR layout as they're roughly similar in size, weight and power.

I couldn't have been more wrong - while the Caterham is the definition of logical handling the Honda feels bad in almost every way. Mushy steering with a lot of friction, tyres that don't seem to have a workable slip angle, and something really odd going on with the general inertia as it suddenly begins sliding around like it's on greased steel cylinders instead of rubber and then snaps abruptly into a direction you wouldn't expect. Just about nothing in its handling makes sense.

 

[mynameis66]

I feel the dirt driving side of things is not very good,for me anyway.I know dirt has never been a strong point with GT but I found it sort of enjoyable before the update,now it just seems all wrong,with the car wanting to flick back straight after any steering,if you see what i mean.I had a go with the circuit exp at catalunya dirt track with the Lancer and found it horrible,no other way to describe it.Hopefully if there is an issue with the off road physics it will get looked at,if its intended then im glad dirt racing is such a small part of GT7.

 

[im2fst4u]

Does anyone have any trouble with their cars struggling/surging under throttle?

My 69 corvette is surges a lot in the higher rev ranges, rpm dropping and rising so strongly that the car is bucking. This is regardless of the flywheel or supercharger fitted. It didn't do this post 1.71.

 

[zztmktn]

I feel the dirt driving side of things is not very good,for me anyway.I know dirt has never been a strong point with GT but I found it sort of enjoyable before the update,now it just seems all wrong,with the car wanting to flick back straight after any steering,if you see what i mean.I had a go with the circuit exp at catalunya dirt track with the Lancer and found it horrible,no other way to describe it.Hopefully if there is an issue with the off road physics it will get looked at,if its intended then im glad dirt racing is such a small part of GT7.

The problem with the circuit experience is not physics, it's the Evo's differentials.

 

[Titzon Toast]

I haven't played this in a long time now, I just don't have much spare time these days, but I'm very interested to see what this new patch has done to the FFB and physics.

It seems pretty mixed from what I'm reading here.
What do fellow wheel users think, please?

 

[Alfa Romeo GT]

I’m very positive about the road cars—you really feel that you have four tires.

The cars are more forgiving; they’re easier to handle compared to before, when it felt like you were on a freight train that could derail quickly if you strayed from the script...


But it all depends on the tires—the high-performance ones are so effective that they actually take away from the cars’ character.
But since I spend most of my playtime in stock cars with cheap tires, I won’t go into too much detail about race cars.


Basically, there’s a little Assetto Corsa Evo that I really like.

 

[mynameis66]

The problem with the circuit experience is not physics, it's the Evo's differentials.

Thats the worse one,but the other dirt races are weird as well.Steering snapping back to straight takes some getting used to.
Also,the caterham around brands hatch wasnt,for me,a very nice drive.On SH I found it had massive understeer under throttle but that may be down to the low weight and my driving,just not a very nice drive.

 

[Sprite]

I’m not sure I get everyone’s gripe with GR.1 cars.

Taking a stock car with default tyres and it just seems like it’s just taking time to get fully operating temps in. I feels to me PD wanted to slow down the temp gain especially on larger more mass tyres.

Before the update it felt like PD had a set amount of distance to get to full temp no matter the mass or compound. Now it feels like every compound & type and size has its own time/distance before optimal.

As such just hitting the track and expecting full grip from the go is daft and this implementation seems more logical and once you’ve got to temp then I fine no other physics issues, putting close on 700hp through a rear is going to be tricky.

@Greycap I’ll have a look at the Honda RA272 now as I’m intrigued.

Edit

So I’ve just slung the Superlight and RA272 around Trial Mountain (it’s the track I know best) and got the following after 2 laps. One out and one flying (within my own skill level) I may have been able to eek out a little more time after more laps but I just wanted to be quick and get a basic feeling for the cars/tyre combos.

Honda - 2:10.055 CS Tyres

Superlight - 2:13.192 CS Tyres

Superlight - 2:10.495 SH Tyres

The Honda was a little skittish about 2/3 of the way around the first lap but by the end of the back straight I could feel grip coming in. By the time the second lap started the car had settled and was a joy, able to loosen back end and keep everything pointing in the correct direction.

Superlight on Comfort Soft was not as bad as expected and while tail happy with its extra torque over the Honda was able to be kept moving on with no issues. It was just more of a handful to work.

On the Sports Hard tyres it’s torque had a bit more grip to use but this came in a lot later say around the first underpass on the second lap, but it had more stability than the comfort from the start. However this extra grip leads to a tad more understeer especially under breaking and the latter end of an apex exit when being pushed.

To add, I’m playing on a pad (Standard for this test, however I do have the edge too)

Make of what you will of my basic test and I’m not the fastest driver out there. If I had a choice between either car / tyre combo above then I’d be team Honda here.

However as soon as I got the Caterham I de-tuned it to the Nurburgring version specs (little less power and a little more weight) I will test that on CS and SH around Trial Mountain and I expect it to be around a 2:09 to 2:10 mark also.

 

[snc]

 

[Met Entso]

gr3 before maybe was 30% arcade and 70% simulator. Now it's barely 20% simulator and 80% arcade. Hope LMU supports PSVR2 because this is a sinking ship for online racing.

 

[venancio]

What I've noticed is that since the update none of the cars are self aligning properly after you let go of the steering wheel, they seem to be taking too much time to go neutral again, the game does not have adjustable caster so we can't test its effects.

 

[Voodoovaj]

gr3 before maybe was 30% arcade and 70% simulator. Now it's barely 20% simulator and 80% arcade. Hope LMU supports PSVR2 because this is a sinking ship for online racing.

I'm curious, when did you get a chance to drive an LM GT3 car in real life to be able to make this assessment?


Every time this topic comes up, no one talks about what actually makes driving a race car difficult. FYI, it's not the driving part, it's the discomfort part. Go fast in a real car, you'll lose your breath on G load, you'll have a hard time breathing through the helmet, you'll be HOT and the sweat will get into your eyes, your ass will hurt. The physical struggles are what makes driving difficult, not the car. And for anyone who is about to say "I go fast on the street bro", ya, that's my point. Anyone can drive the car.

Edit, I forgot to add the photo of Senna's hands after the 1984 Monaco GP.

The difference between a great driver and a terrible driver is the accuracy and control. Being able to cross over the limit and keep it straight, while you are being physically abused.

Like, business execs jump into these cars with barely any ability to drive at all and they do just fine. That's what the "gentlemen" racers are. They're just rich dudes. No skills. They go slow and avoid the discomfort.

 

[Greycap]

To add, I’m playing on a pad (Standard for this test, however I do have the edge too)

This may play a large part in our findings. On a wheel the self aligning torque is just about non-existant, it's not a common problem but this car suffers from it a lot. To the extent that it needs nearly as much force to countersteer than to actually steer, thus the mushy feeling in which it feels like you're just turning a shovel in a bucket full of loose mud without much if any actual feedback from the car. When the tail steps out the wheel doesn't go light or begin turning the other way like it should almost at all, making catching slides unpleasant guesswork as it doesn't communicate through the wheel when the tyres are tracking straight again.

But, I took it for a spin too. Otherwise a full stock car but the tyres and a livery, no doubt it could benefit from a few setup changes but this is how PD intended it to handle - with the exception of the tyres. I actually think comfort softs are still far too grippy considering what kind of plastic they used in the sixties, it's worth noting that it was common to do more than one race on one set.

 

[Sprite]

This may play a large part in our findings. On a wheel the self aligning torque is just about non-existant, it's not a common problem but this car suffers from it a lot. To the extent that it needs nearly as much force to countersteer than to actually steer, thus the mushy feeling in which it feels like you're just turning a shovel in a bucket full of loose mud without much if any actual feedback from the car. When the tail steps out the wheel doesn't go light or begin turning the other way like it should almost at all, making catching slides unpleasant guesswork as it doesn't communicate through the wheel when the tyres are tracking straight again.

But, I took it for a spin too. Otherwise a full stock car but the tyres and a livery, no doubt it could benefit from a few setup changes but this is how PD intended it to handle - with the exception of the tyres. I actually think comfort softs are still far too grippy considering what kind of plastic they used in the sixties, it's worth noting that it was common to do more than one race on one set.

Sounds like it is a wheel vs pad issue then. They have been known to mess this up in the past if my memory serves, both control types having some quirks.

It seems odd PD have done this seeing as wheel use is the only choice in their own league.

I’ll have to go to my old mans and have a go on the wheel (been meaning to head down and have a go with his new Logitech chair / rig since he got it)

It’s pretty poor of PD’s own QC and house keeping if they don’t have a default config file they can just revert to for wheel traits and settings in cases like this. I’d have expected each car to have a set config per input device (dead zones and basic calibrations) they can go back to if some one put the wrong config in the gold version of the update. It’s also another telling sign that having so many cars and pressures of time to offer big and impressive updates with a moderate size team which leads to QC issues.

I agree on tyres and compounds, however I guess replicating historical compounds is just guess work. It could stand to have a lot more slip and a longer temp time and longer wear as you say.

I guess it’s just limitations of money, time and team resources Sony are willing to commit to PD. If we all keep buying GT and playing their game then Sony will do as little as possible for maximum gain.

Also we know what a bunch of babies some players can be when the games stray into a more sim orientated status, it becomes too much for some players and they don’t bother, which eventually sales stall and the next version doesn’t get made. We’ve seen plenty of excellent sim-cade titles try and straddle that pony and come a cropper.

 

[GBalao888]

With the new physics, especially on the topic of road cars, I decided to do a Nurburgring run with the Bugatti Chiron (stock, no changes to setup, and Racing: Soft tires) and as cleanly as possible, I managed to do a 6:27.052.

On old physics, I was able to do 6:18.569 before all the major changes (and this was a lap done in early 2023).

The weight of the cars are more pronounced (especially considering the Chiron is a heavy two-ton beast) and the steering provides even more feedback than before despite being on a controller and there were some occasions where it's scary to push it hard whereas before, you could take them without fear. I even risked snap oversteer on some low-speed corners as well.

It was as if I had to relearn the Chiron's driving behaviors from scratch, and after feeling slightly more brave on my next attempt, I did 6:20.687.

 

[Kriptical]

This may play a large part in our findings. On a wheel the self aligning torque is just about non-existant, it's not a common problem but this car suffers from it a lot. To the extent that it needs nearly as much force to countersteer than to actually steer, thus the mushy feeling in which it feels like you're just turning a shovel in a bucket full of loose mud without much if any actual feedback from the car. When the tail steps out the wheel doesn't go light or begin turning the other way like it should almost at all, making catching slides unpleasant guesswork as it doesn't communicate through the wheel when the tyres are tracking straight again.

But, I took it for a spin too. Otherwise a full stock car but the tyres and a livery, no doubt it could benefit from a few setup changes but this is how PD intended it to handle - with the exception of the tyres. I actually think comfort softs are still far too grippy considering what kind of plastic they used in the sixties, it's worth noting that it was common to do more than one race on one set.

On fanatec dd+ i dropped my nfr to zero snd found the wheel went lightish and the tire alignment was easier to feel. Did it on the Honda in the TT though.