Gran Turismo Sport: General Discussion

[ImaRobot]

GT6 was a good step up from GT5 as I don't think you can get the same reaction as below in that game.




Really hope PD manage to pull off GT SPORT being the most realistic driving simulator.

Doing the test at Route X seems to produce different results, doesn't it?

 

[Tornado]

No, people claimed that GT5 had it too.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Doing the test at Route X seems to produce different results, doesn't it?

On any of GT6's fantasy tracks IIRC.

 

[ImaRobot]

On any of GT6's fantasy tracks IIRC.

I wonder if that has to do with tracks being laser scanned, showing their imperfections in the surface, compared to fantasy tracks which can usually have true flat surfaces like Route X. Extremely odd, none the less.

 

[FoRiZon]

I wonder if that has to do with tracks being laser scanned, showing their imperfections in the surface, compared to fantasy tracks which can usually have true flat surfaces like Route X. Extremely odd, none the less.

I dont know. But my guess is that the "imperfection" might be intentional.

Ex. The surface of La Sarthe in GT5/6 is relatively the same as GT4 even though it had been re-made and laser scanned. Might be to simulate the shock on high speed to IRL.

 

[ImaRobot]

I dont know. But my guess is that the "imperfection" might be intentional.

Yes, that is what happens when you laser scan a track. That's why I say that's probably why that effect only happens on real tracks, according to @Saidur_Ali

 

[Saidur_Ali]

I wonder if that has to do with tracks being laser scanned, showing their imperfections in the surface, compared to fantasy tracks which can usually have true flat surfaces like Route X. Extremely odd, none the less.

I think it is due to track detail, fantasy tracks probably have perfect simple surface so you get same traction on both tyres. Physics seem quite generic so probably all cars have perfect symmetrical weight transfer so no cause of uneven traction. Maybe it is possible for a car to spin out in a similar way on a fantasy track if tyres are worn unevenly in GT6, haven't tried it myself.

 

[Huks]

Ex. The surface of La Sarthe in GT5/6 is relatively the same as GT4 even though it had been re-made and laser scanned. Might be to simulate the shock on high speed to IRL.

The GT4 version of La Sarthe was laser scanned as well according to amar212.

 

[ImaRobot]

I think it is due to track detail, fantasy tracks probably have perfect simple surface so you get same traction on both tyres. Physics seem quite generic so probably all cars have perfect symmetrical weight transfer so no cause of uneven traction. Maybe it is possible for car to spin out on fantasy track if tyres are worn unevenly in GT6, haven't tried it myself.

That's basically what I was thinking as well. I'm not sure if they model imperfections into their fantasy tracks, and I have no way to check right now. If anything Route X would be the one showing the true results, as it's perfectly flat. As for the uneven tires, I would imagine that would cause the same effect, but that seems more like a given, really.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

That's basically what I was thinking as well. I'm not sure if they model imperfections into their fantasy tracks, and I have no way to check right now. If anything Route X would be the one showing the true results, as it's perfectly flat. As for the uneven tires, I would imagine that would cause the same effect, but that seems more like a given, really.

I think on some parts of track it is possible to spin out but expected due to banking. It would be interesting to see how some cars will behave IRL with perfect new tyres that are identical and perfect surface with no difference in grip compared to same cars on a drag strip.

Kaz did mention the following though in a GamesTM interview so optimistic for GT SPORT:

"A lot of different things were cut: resolution, graphic designs, everything throughout the gameplay. The level of data that’s being handled, whether it be the environment data or the car data, they’re on a fantastically high level – but the PS3 isn’t able to process it very well."

"Everything will be running naturally," Yamauchi assured us. "PS3 was much, much more difficult. The high quality of data that we have being rendered on the PS4 I think is going to make an incredible difference."

 

[Mike_grpA]

I think it is due to track detail, fantasy tracks probably have perfect simple surface so you get same traction on both tyres. Physics seem quite generic so probably all cars have perfect symmetrical weight transfer so no cause of uneven traction. Maybe it is possible for a car to spin out in a similar way on a fantasy track if tyres are worn unevenly in GT6, haven't tried it myself.

As I said before, Torque steer, or twist, in a RWD vehicle, is a product of the twisting momentum of the drive against the inertia of the car through the diff, not traction difference between wheels. Torque twist doesn't affect cars with an open diff like it does cars with a spool axle, because the traction difference of the open diff allows the power to go through the wheel with less grip, the wheel spins quite easily, whereas in a car with a spool or a locked diff, both wheels have equal grip, so the drive torque must go through both of them and work against the weight of the car to get it moving.

Torque twist isn't a car spinning out, it's the body of the car twisting and pushing to one side due to the high torque working against the car's inertia.

 

[queleuleu]

A serie of tweets, he is a pretty famous car journalist in France. It surely means a report in Turbo (a french tv show about cars). Nothing special in the tweets.
Just my opinion, but I'm afraid that the next news about GTsport won't be before the Geneva motor show.

 

[AKps3]

GT Sport maybe coming October?
https://twitter.com/DrevetCyril/status/694977097060741120

 

[Samus]

He said "likely release" which to me is logical guessing. I'm sure most of us would guess Oct - Dec.

 

[CSLACR]

A separate physics system for steering wheels? Why?

Is this a serious question?
I don't recall saying anything about separate physics.

For the same reason moving a thumbstick Isn't and shouldn't be treated the same as yanking a steering wheel to lock, I think torque steer would be more of a pain in the ass than an enjoyable lifelike experience. I suppose how strong-willed it is could make a difference.
With a controller, of course.

 

[ImaRobot]

Is this a serious question?
I don't recall saying anything about separate physics.

It seemed implied. You asked to disable part of a physics engine for a certain peripheral.

For the same reason moving a thumbstick Isn't and shouldn't be treated the same as yanking a steering wheel to lock, I think torque steer would be more of a pain in the ass than an enjoyable lifelike experience. I suppose how strong-willed it is could make a difference.
With a controller, of course.

Torque steer isn't hard to deal with on a pad. All it takes is feathering and modulation of the triggers and/or steering input.

 

[CSLACR]

It seemed implied. You asked to disable part of a physics engine for a certain peripheral.


Torque steer isn't hard to deal with on a pad. All it takes is feathering and modulation of the triggers and/or steering input.

No, I didn't. Just because it's the first thing you(or anyone) thought of doesn't mean that's the only way it can be done.

Finishing in the top 100 of the first GTAcademy (U.S.) with a DS3 was easy.

Sew how blanket statements about what's easy for oneself don't help?

 

[ImaRobot]

No, I didn't. Just because it's the first thing you(or anyone) thought of doesn't mean that's the only way it can be done

Go on..

inishing in the top 100 of the first GTAcademy (U.S.) with a DS3 was easy.

Sew how blanket statements about what's easy for oneself don't help

It'll take no different approach to what you're already doing when you're going around a turn using a pad. Sure, some can do it better then others, but its a skill that everyone has, to a degree.

What are you comparing it to, that forms your opinion of it being a difficult process on the pad?

 

[queleuleu]

A lot of you here want the best driving simulator but in my opinion you don't sell 10 million copies with an iRacing game. I, as the spokesman of casual gamers , want a FUN and challenging game. From GT1 to GT3 (I didn't play GT4), all their games were fun : music, gameplay, challenge...

If Poly has time to make the most realistic simulator, that's cool. But please PD, don't forget your biggest audience and casual doesn't mean easy (I look at you GT6 license test...)

 

[FoRiZon]

A lot of you here want the best driving simulator but in my opinion you don't sell 10 million copies with an iRacing game. I, as the spokesman of casual gamers , want a FUN and challenging game. From GT1 to GT3 (I didn't play GT4), all their games were fun : music, gameplay, challenge...

If Poly has time to make the most realistic simulator, that's cool. But please PD, don't forget your biggest audience and casual doesn't mean easy (I look at you GT6 license test...)

Comparatively, Forza 6 doesn't have particularly excellent physics either. And it worked for many people with its great car list, great sounds, and in depth customization. Just saying, while physics is one of main feature in GT, if its became a too much of a work for perfecting it resulting on miscommunication and very long delays, then i think they should have placed the priority on something else thats lacking, that fans have been roaring on.

Well see the progress later on, though. Right now the only GT news i heard is "PD got a FIA license", "Employee Interviews", and "GT got some awards for something". Its cool and all, but the fact that there still absolutely no news on GT Sport (only rumours) compared to the other games strikes the whole wrong kind of thoughts.

 

[queleuleu]

GT6 Tests is actually quite easy compared to other GT games. Not really a cakewalk, but still.

Comparatively, Forza 6 doesn't have particularly excellent physics either. And it worked for many people with its great car list, great sounds, and in depth customization. Just saying, while physics is one of main feature in GT, if its became a too much of a work for perfecting it resulting on miscommunication and very long delays, then i think they should have placed priority on something else.

Well see the progress later on, though. Right now the only GT news i heard is "PD got a FIA license", "Employee Interviews", and "GT got some awards for something". Its cool and all, but the fact that there still absolutely no news on GT Sport (only rumours) compared to the other games strikes the whole wrong kind of thoughts.

GT6 Test is a joke when you look at GT1->GT3. For example, bronze could be easy and gold a lot harder. There is no challenge in GT6.

 

[Tornado]

They need to come up with a teaching system different from licence tests anyway. I think they were so easy (and oddly structured) in GT6 because they knew this but couldn't think of alternative.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

New part-time jobs:

Online Events Staff
Race Event Planning Assistant

 

[CSLACR]

Go on..


It'll take no different approach to what you're already doing when you're going around a turn using a pad. Sure, some can do it better then others, but its a skill that everyone has, to a degree.

What are you comparing it to, that forms your opinion of it being a difficult process on the pad?

Imagine coming out of a left hand corner and trying to stay wide right for another left, and torque steer (that wouldnt barely be noticed in a real car or to a wheel user) yanks(gently pulls) you into the grass.
Is that something a DS4 user really wants to deal with? I sure as heck wouldn't, and I'm significantly more skilled than average, let alone casual.

 

[ImaRobot]

Imagine coming out of a left hand corner and trying to stay wide right for another left, and torque steer (that wouldnt barely be noticed in a real car or to a wheel user) yanks(gently pulls) you into the grass.
Is that something a DS4 user really wants to deal with? I sure as heck wouldn't, and I'm significantly more skilled than average, let alone casual.

You should slow down then, you're obviously pushing the car farther than what it is actually capable of doing. Still though,If you're significantly more skilled, and you understand what's going on here, I fail to see how you think it's a difficult process. I would love for the game to have that, and its not a difficult process to go through on a pad if you have a basic understand of racing games(which most people do, going into games like this.) This is part of why FWD cars are so fun in Forza. They exhibit this trait, and it really brings out the different traits in different drive type. There's no need to have to imagine it, as it's not like its something so unbelievable that no one can fathom it.

Like I said, why are you thinking its difficult on the pad? How is it any different then approaching a turn and having to modulate the throttles and steering to get around that turn effectively? you're already doing the work by just playing the game with the pad.

Still, could you please explain to me how we would go about removing torque steer for a certain peripheral, but doing it without having to change the physics? You seemed to have left that part out.

 

[CSLACR]

You should slow down then, you're obviously pushing the car farther than what it is actually capable of doing. Still though,If you're significantly more skilled, and you understand what's going on here, I fail to see how you think it's a difficult process. I would love for the game to have that, and its not a difficult process to go through on a pad if you have a basic understand of racing games(which most people do, going into games like this.) This is part of why FWD cars are so fun in Forza. They exhibit this trait, and it really brings out the different traits in different drive type. There's no need to have to imagine it, as it's not like its something so unbelievable that no one can fathom it.

Like I said, why are you thinking its difficult on the pad? How is it any different then approaching a turn and having to modulate the throttles and steering to get around that turn effectively? you're already doing the work by just playing the game with the pad.

Still, could you please explain to me how we would go about removing torque steer for a certain peripheral, but doing it without having to change the physics? You seemed to have left that part out.

Slow down? What part of what I said requires slowing down? Its about trying to set your car on the side of the track while it doesn't drive straight.

Like I said, wheel users would barely notice the tiny steering correction required, pad users will inch left, inch left, inch left.
If you can't see the difference there's not much more I can explain.

You realize some 140hp fwd cars pull to the right at 70mph under full throttle right? Let alone a more powerful one. It's more about "how much" than "if".

You haven't explained why you would have to remodel the entire physics to make it not affect controllers, yet you seem to agree the steering input is not equal between wheels and controllers.

So how did they do that? How did they adapt steering to controllers without changing physics?
There's probably multiple ways in can be done, but not totally unlike a steering buffer, it could be...a steering buffer. One that helps or removes torque steer.

If you want a technical exact answer, ask a game programmer or engineer, I'm simply stating what I think is not only possible, but possibly relatively easily.

 

[AleksandarSRB]

A lot of you here want the best driving simulator but in my opinion you don't sell 10 million copies with an iRacing game. I, as the spokesman of casual gamers , want a FUN and challenging game. From GT1 to GT3 (I didn't play GT4), all their games were fun : music, gameplay, challenge...

If Poly has time to make the most realistic simulator, that's cool. But please PD, don't forget your biggest audience and casual doesn't mean easy (I look at you GT6 license test...)

Yous should play GT4, because you missed best GT game in series.

 

[ImaRobot]

Slow down? What part of what I said requires slowing down? Its about trying to set your car on the side of the track while it doesn't drive straight.

The reason for it having those issues is because you're on the gas. Slowing down alleviates the problem.

Like I said, wheel users would barely notice the tiny steering correction required, pad users will inch left, inch left, inch left.
If you can't see the difference there's not much more I can explain.

I never said I can't see the difference. What you're explaining has nothing to do with what I asked. I asked why you think it's hard on the pad, it takes no different approach to what most are already doing just by driving around.

You realize some 140hp fwd cars pull to the right at 70mph under full throttle right? Let alone a more powerful one. It's more about "how much" than "if".

Yes. Where did I state that they can't?

You haven't explained why you would have to remodel the entire physics to make it not affect controllers, yet you seem to agree the steering input is not equal between wheels and controllers.

I didn't make the claim, you did.

However, I never said they would have to remodel the physics engine, instead they would have to remove an aspect of it for one given user base.

So how did they do that? How did they adapt steering to controllers without changing physics?
There's probably multiple ways in can be done, but not totally unlike a steering buffer, it could be...a steering buffer. One that helps or removes torque steer.

A steering input buffer that removes torque-steer? What? As it is a problem that occurs while under the power that the engine is throwing out, why would a buffer on the steering input work? Essentially, it sounds like your asking them to let you go wide open throttle around a turn with this "aid" on without getting the effects of torque-steer but the way you're going about it just sounds odd. Limiting power can be a way to alleviate torque-steer, so if it does happen, the aid can kick in and physically slow the car. That already sounds like TCS or STM though. I just don't see a steering buffer to be the solution, or even relevant.

Probably, it could be.. Your not filling me with much faith that you know what you're talking about anymore, even though you where so fast to tell us otherwise.

If you want a technical exact answer, ask a game programmer or engineer, I'm simply stating what I think is not only possible, but possibly relatively easily.

No. I'm asking you, because you told us we were wrong. You made the statement so I should atleast be able to expect that you would be able to back up claims you make.

 

[Tornado]

Imagine coming out of a left hand corner and trying to stay wide right for another left, and torque steer (that wouldnt barely be noticed in a real car or to a wheel user) yanks(gently pulls) you into the grass.

I'm imagining it, and I believe my solution would be to adjust my steering angle to the left to counter the effect of the torque steer (particularly easy since in your example I might be already turning left anway), or I could even just use slightly less throttle since I'm hopefully aware that I'm driving a car with a suspension/drivetrain so poorly sorted that I'm getting dragged off the track when I'm trying to ride the outside of the track after coming out of a turn. So... what?


If I'm already conscious enough of professional racing techniques that I know how to clip apexes and run proper racing lines for fastest speed through multiple successive corners, and skilled enough to do it with a gamepad, I'm struggling to see how I'm also completely inept when it comes to countering the effects caused by running full bore on the throttle in the process of preparing for a turn. I guess I could see how it's "annoying" to do with a pad, but it's also similarly "annoying" to have to make constant steering corrections on tracks with bumpy straightaways with a pad. Don't think making cars drive arrow straight in that instance is the answer either.

 

[chengman]

So... The PitStop blog has said that they will provide updates on GT Sport. Considering how we got nothing for GT6 and all we could do was pray, this is hopeful

More and more people are asking “When is there going to be new info on Gran Turismo SPORT?” We’ll let you know when we’ll be ready to share more information… In 2016, the Pit Stop blog will continue to follow the world’s car culture in relation to Gran Turismo. First up, is a report of the Tokyo Auto Salon 2016, the first annual event of the year.

From http://pitstop.gran-turismo.com/en/article/2520 first paragraph