GT4 vs Forza [Let the battle begin]

[Cosmic]

The could make the cars get dirty, they just haven't, besides you could do both. But like KY said, the PS2 just isn't capable of doing the damage at the level he would want it.

That's sad anyway , let's hope for PS3

 

[cobragt]

That's pd for ya. I doubt they would put pgr2 style damage in gt4, it wouldn't look right.

 

[cobragt]

That's sad anyway , let's hope for PS3

The ps3 will be able to handle it. The ps3 is gonna be mad strong!!! But I'm worried about how long it's gonna take gt5 to come out with damage for more than 900 cars.

 

[Cosmic]

But I'm worried about how long it's gonna take gt5 to come out with damage for more than 900 cars.

10 years

 

[Dave A]

Thats exactly it, when PD do decide it's time to put damage into a GT game, they will make sure it cxan be replicated as close to real as possible ie no two crashes ever being the same, no total lever of damage, a twisted body panel can carry oin being twisted no matter how bad it is but in games like toca which replicate damage as well as any game so far only have so much you can do.

 

[Cosmic]

Do not forget the AI must have damage effects too

 

[Tacet_Blue]

The ps3 will be able to handle it. The ps3 is gonna be mad strong!!! But I'm worried about how long it's gonna take gt5 to come out with damage for more than 900 cars.

Isn't that the issue though. KY doesn't want to implement a animated damage system that just has 2 buckled bonnet panels to replace the nice new one and damaged texture for all other panels etc. This is the system used by all games. He wanted to implement a system based on collision physics and deformation of existing panels. This would require computing that the PS2 can only dream of, but it would mean that only one set of physic rules would be created, and the cars have properties of strength and elasticity, as to when a collision would break or deform a panel. So it wouldn't matter how many cars there were.

This is the same direction as companies are heading with "Rag Doll" physics. In FPS instead of a character falling down in a keyframe animated sequence, they would react to the impact of the weapon. I'm sure this true collision modelling is what KY wants to do but simply can't unless GT4 ran at 1fps (or less)

 

[ExigeEvan]

I wonder when we can expect envioromental damage? Like barriers and tyre walls.

 

[Cosmic]

What about the "burnout/smoke" effects?
Drifting is all about smoke! I hope they've improved those effects

 

[tha_con]

As I said, GTR is THE sim of the year, it's far more realistic than ANY console game ever, including GT4 which is the most realistic game so far. GTR has used real data from the real cars just like in GT4, but it's also done far more with the fewer cars it has than KY has done with the 500+ cars in GT4. GT4 will be the better game and it wil be realistic I hope, since GT3 wasn't but it won't be as realistic as GTR is and has proven it is, the cars driven by real race drivers are performing the same lap times as in real life, but on every track and in every car tested and theres been plenty of testing, I stick to my original statment, as good as GT4 will be it won't beat GTR for realism.

Taken from an interview on GS: (full article here: http://www.gamespot.com/ps2/driving/granturismo4/preview_6097968.html)

All of the circuits in the game have been painstakingly re-created to the extent that every single point in the environment is accurate to within 15mm--around two-thirds of an inch. To drive this point home Yamauchi told us that Nissan's top test driver, who happens to be a huge Gran Turismo fan, was asked to drive one of the Nissan Skylines in the game around the Nurburgring and compare his Gran Turismo time to his real-life time. The driver was able to complete both in times of a little over eight minutes, and the two times ended up being within just five seconds of each other.

To have a time only 5 seconds different from real life times is pretty impressive to me, and the "same" time is not possible, most professional drivers are withing 3/5 seconds...to get something that close is pretty impressive. GT4 won't be a sleeper, and I think you *might* be giving GTR just a tad too much credit, not saying it won't be a great sim, but it's not going to be leaps and bounds ahead of GT4.

 

[cobragt]

PD will have their work cut out for them when they bring damage into the mix. But I dont think the ps3 is gonna be the console for real damage. The ps5 might be.

 

[tha_con]

Forza will include levels of realstic damage from No Damage to Simulation damage to judge this aspect of the game when not too much is known about it other than what i've stated is rather silly



I do not dispute the fact that racing is to find the shortest line around the track, i'd also add it's also the Racer's job to ensure it's the safe for himself and other's and pushing the car too hard to find that perfect racing line, will result in crashes GT4 online will suffer if they do not come up with a better solution to reckless driving.
Car damage is a long term risk you must concider in Toca 2 Race Driver damage make's me concider pushing the car too hard and if Forza is full sim damage it will make me a better racer, in my opinion.

Damage in sim's is anything but a joke



Yes Forza has a smaller car selection they also have Ferrari and Porsche both of these manfacturers have proven racing pedigree's unlike the 50hp unknown crap GT4 has.

Forza has 200+ and also has Ferrari and Porsche and all the best car's GT4 has

GT4 has 500+ cars plenty of variety but alot of stuff no one will drive



Flipping car's is hardly new and hardly shows of the "muscle" of the XBox simple fact is flipping car's in GT4 would be stupid without the damage it just so happens Forza has damage and it kinda makes sense yeah the car's will flip.



Forza is big budget never forget that Microsoft has pumped alot of money into this game and saying Polyphony just because there Polyphony will topple the compo is highly naive and stupid, PD are not god's there talented developers, I wonder what the people who thought Nintendo and Sega was untouchable think today.

Nintendo and Sega were god's until Sony came along and recently Microsoft.

Never say somthing lasts forever because it simply doe's not

The point was car damage won't be "realistic" so to quote it as such in a preivew or teaser interview is just rediculous. It will be "revolutionary" MAYBE, but realistic, no. As far as it making you a better driver, that won't matter, it will ruin the online experience when someone smashes into you and ruins your car.

Again, flipping cars is going to be lame. When a car flips at 150+mph, it gets riped to shreds, and tumbles...we'll see how their physics stack up and how "realistic" it looks, it'll look silly, and yes I'm calling that.

And I'm saying polyphony will toplle them simply because they have the experience and car know how. They have more time and research, and wallets don't replace that. Money might make the world spin, but microsoft has proven that pouring money into a game does not promise good results, many many many times before.

 

[askia47]

Damage is important it has long term effects on your vehicle throughout a race, the last thing you want in an online race is everyone to hammer into the 1st corner aiming for an easy first position early in the race I have no doubt this is how you race...

But my friend that simpily is not racing...

Saftey is key to racing, Saftey to others and saftey to yourself anything but and your short changing yourself and others to a great racing experiance.

Front, obviously you arent happy with what GT4 has to offer in some areas. Forza has some of the things you want.

How do you want GT4 to change before it comes out in November. What do you want in the game to make it better on the Playstation 2? No PC conversions or anything.

 

[_aj]

No game I know thus far has truly realistic damage, some are very close but none have true realistic damage, not even TOCA RD2, as if there's one thing I've noticed from that is that the body can end up all shapes but there seems to be only 2 maybe 3 levels that affect performance. An example why RD2 isn't that exact is if/when you lose your rear wing and you are not going to be able to max it out down the straights without the car feeling twitchy as hell, also braking hard or too late from a high speed would result in the car losing it completely (Audi TT as an example). Even some F1 games allow you to speed like a demon with no front wing, I think that if damage is implemented in a game then it should have 3 levels, none, moderate and full. I would also like to see racing games doing fatal (to the car) incidents such as sand traps, flipping on your roof and high impact smashes (like RD2 for this).

I was also thinking about the number of cars of each game and I was thinking GT must have around 150, maybe 200 cars as pure bred race cars whereas Forza's total (so far) is 200-250 and then every other car can be modified to the limit.

We can only speculate right now, the proof of the pudding is in the tasting or rather playing in this matter.

 

[Lambo88]

For those who are worrying how long will it take to develop GT5 with 900 cars and real damage, don't worry.

Because GT5 will be like GT3:a rushed game with only 100-150 cars and 20 tracks already known and instead of new championships, it will have 25 lap races. Xbox2 is coming next year and Sony won't want to miss the boat. PS3 will be released somewhere like the beginning of 2006. It took PD 3 years to complete GT4 with 500 cars and no damage. So in 1 year and a half, PD will either release a rushed game like GT3 or they will be ready in 2008 or something.

And, guess what:Sony will want a game to boast their sales in the beginning of PS3, what GT5 will be. So PD will rush their game and I will again be disappointed, like when I played GT3.Killer graphics but no cars and events. And to those who are creaming their pants about the '87 GNX, it's in.

See ya

 

[Gabkicks]

maybe it would be a good idea to wait untill gt4 comes out before discussing what GT4 will contain.... i mean.... we're still not sure of everything thats gonna be in gt4. w

 

[askia47]

For those who are worrying how long will it take to develop GT5 with 900 cars and real damage, don't worry.

Because GT5 will be like GT3:a rushed game with only 100-150 cars and 20 tracks already known and instead of new championships, it will have 25 lap races. Xbox2 is coming next year and Sony won't want to miss the boat. PS3 will be released somewhere like the beginning of 2006. It took PD 3 years to complete GT4 with 500 cars and no damage. So in 1 year and a half, PD will either release a rushed game like GT3 or they will be ready in 2008 or something.

And, guess what:Sony will want a game to boast their sales in the beginning of PS3, what GT5 will be. So PD will rush their game and I will again be disappointed, like when I played GT3.Killer graphics but no cars and events. And to those who are creaming their pants about the '87 GNX, it's in.

See ya

why would it be rushed?

 

[code_kev]

I love this, people choose Gt4's "tip the car to much and it magically stops" method over forzas "tip the car and it flips". I mean, am I thie only person who thinks the limiter is the crappest thing ever . Oh this is where some spanner says "oh, but Gt4 is a racing sim, not a crashing sim". This is what I say to that person, SHUT THE FK UP YOU BORING GIT. And not having crash damage, come off it, it's satisfying to slam cars in to walls, and if running a car alonmg a wall and not getting damaged seems more realistic to you, then you shouldn't be allowed to drive a real car. This is where they say, "oh but PD won't include something that's not perfect". I respond, well no part of the game is perfect, so why bother at all

Idiots.

 

[JW31]

sigh. gt4 all the way.

 

[code_kev]

Gt4 all the way too (unless forza is better)

 

[Pak]

I respond, well no part of the game is perfect, so why bother at all

Idiots.

rofl yeah 👍
Why did they make a physics engine if it's not realistic.. why did they even bother to make GT1, 2, 3

 

[Dave A]

To have a time only 5 seconds different from real life times is pretty impressive to me, and the "same" time is not possible, most professional drivers are withing 3/5 seconds...to get something that close is pretty impressive. GT4 won't be a sleeper, and I think you *might* be giving GTR just a tad too much credit, not saying it won't be a great sim, but it's not going to be leaps and bounds ahead of GT4.

From this post I can tell you know nothing about in game physics and GTR, GTR as I said is THE sim of the year, it's spot on. You don't actually need spot on physics to make a car do similar lap times to the real life times, all they would need to do is balance the cars properties so that a lap of that time can be achieved, in real life the car might not accelerate as fast, but it's brakes might be better, it might not be as stable round corners either, however the fact that in GT4 the car can accelerate faster and corner faster make up for the fact it doesn't brake as well and so the car can achieve similar lap times provided the balance is correct. I'm not saying thats what has been done ni GT4, far from it. KY and his team have done a fantastic job so far, but the fact remains GTR is spot on, not just close. As far as current technology goes your not beating it, even if it's not leaps and bounds ahead, it is ahead because it can't get any closer at the moment.

 

[livemusic]

No game I know thus far has truly realistic damage, some are very close but none have true realistic damage, not even TOCA RD2, as if there's one thing I've noticed from that is that the body can end up all shapes but there seems to be only 2 maybe 3 levels that affect performance. An example why RD2 isn't that exact is if/when you lose your rear wing and you are not going to be able to max it out down the straights without the car feeling twitchy as hell, also braking hard or too late from a high speed would result in the car losing it completely (Audi TT as an example). Even some F1 games allow you to speed like a demon with no front wing, I think that if damage is implemented in a game then it should have 3 levels, none, moderate and full. I would also like to see racing games doing fatal (to the car) incidents such as sand traps, flipping on your roof and high impact smashes (like RD2 for this).

I was also thinking about the number of cars of each game and I was thinking GT must have around 150, maybe 200 cars as pure bred race cars whereas Forza's total (so far) is 200-250 and then every other car can be modified to the limit.

We can only speculate right now, the proof of the pudding is in the tasting or rather playing in this matter.

You want realistic damage? Get Burnout 3. 👍

 

[PhatFat]

Who on earth says "Spot on"

 

[_aj]

GTR isn't perfect right now, after all it was just a press demo but it was damn near close I'll admit. Nothing else has come out about GTR that I can recall but I know what you're saying about the handling. Also I would rather hear the thoughts of the people who race the tracks in real life, that way you can be sure that they will give you an authentic insight and opinion on how a car and the track handles.

 

[I6-4-eva]

maybe it would be a good idea to wait untill gt4 comes out before discussing what GT4 will contain.... i mean.... we're still not sure of everything thats gonna be in gt4. w

👍 even better idea wait for both games to come out and then compare. oh well back to the pissing match

 

[Keitaro333]

well... GTR IS the most realistic car sim... but i somwhow cant find it enjoying and fun to play... have to wait for GT4...

 

[DevilGTx]

Here's the difference...

Playing all racing games except for Gran Turismo feels like playing a video game.

Playing Gran Turismo feels like I'm actually a driver trying to win the race.

To all those people who think that crashes and damage would complete the game and tell those of us who DO NOT CRASH that we are "boring git" (what the heck is that, anyway?), YOU are missing the point.

No disrespect code_kev, but if you like running down the wall and destroying your car in the game with realistic damage, you would be pissed of when you realize that there is no restart option (since it's realistic) and you lose, big time, and then have to pay for repairs. Right?

I don't care about damage or what the crashes look like, I care about HOW THE DRIVING FEELS.

 

[Dave A]

Only no previouse GT is realistic and none come close to feeling like when I'm driving my car fast, the fact is in races there are crashes car get damaged. If damage appeared in GT5 I doubt you'd be complainig that it's in, so don't try turning the fact that it's not in into a plus point about the game, the fact it's not in is mainly down to the hardware, if the PS2 could do realistic damage KY would go for it and don't think he wouldn't.

 

[kinigitt]

When you climb steps, do you wait for 5 years without moving and then try to bound up the rest of the way in one shot?

This "no damage till PS3 because it wont be true to life" is nonsense. As people have stated above, the GT series has never been true to life. But they try.

The graphics in GT1 and GT2 did not look anything like real cars. Guess what? They modeled the cars the best they could given the current technology, and boy was I glad they did, because they looked great for the time.

p.s.

Gran Turismo is a game. A video game. A video game that is balanced for playability above harsh realism to ensure sales and critical success. IT IS NOT ****ING REAL DRIVING. It is not a niche market hardcore sim either. Accept it, embrace it.