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- kudos00
GT5 vs Live For Speed
- Thread starter newbielives
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of course, its far from perfect. Tire modelling is incredibly complicated. But its without doubt a more advanced model than GT5. But its not just the tire modelling and other physics things that iracing has. The tracks, the FFB, the damage modelling, the scoring system that really enforces good racing, the solid netcode...
I'm not trying to sell anyone on iRacing. I think GT5 is a great game. I'd agree too that it feels reasonably close under a lot of circumstances to the PC sims. But the suggestion that GT5 is modelling things with the sort of complexity and depth that iRacing does is just not correct...
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- Tetsumura
- Nigel Fox
I use lots and lots of words.
But you really have to to nail down a point in a complicated subject like this one, and there's no real hard, solid right or wrong either.Well, drama is in the mind of the beholder.
I guess I do come across as saying that the price of iRacing is preposterous. But be honest. There really aren't that many people who can afford to buy two new video games whenever they want, which in American stores is $120 plus tax. That's not a king's ransom, but if most of us have to budget for that, most of us have to save even more to rent a game forever. There is no end to it, so the ultimate cost of iRacing is just whenever you burn out or can't justify it anymore. It could ultimately be thousands of dollars. So it's not exactly what most people consider affordable, even if it is amortized over years.
You're right that the price is for a solid reason. But that reason is to buy into the fantasy of being a pro race car driver, going to the track in your virtual car according to the calendar and chase points in a championship run just like the big boys do.
And that's the thing, this isn't what every racer lives for, and it's not even what most gamers consider a bargain. There definitely is the question of whether iRacing is hundreds of dollars better in whatever way. If you can do something similar in GTR, Forza or GT5 for much, much less - in the case of GT5, racing online for free, then this puts iR squarely in the pricey niche category for most of us.
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- Vaxxtx
- Vaxxtx
- 408
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Well, drama is in the mind of the beholder.
I guess I do come across as saying that the price of iRacing is preposterous. But be honest. There really aren't that many people who can afford to buy two new video games whenever they want, which in American stores is $120 plus tax. That's not a king's ransom, but if most of us have to budget for that, most of us have to save even more to rent a game forever. There is no end to it, so the ultimate cost of iRacing is just whenever you burn out or can't justify it anymore. It could ultimately be thousands of dollars. So it's not exactly what most people consider affordable, even if it is amortized over years.
You're right that the price is for a solid reason. But that reason is to buy into the fantasy of being a pro race car driver, going to the track in your virtual car according to the calendar and chase points in a championship run just like the big boys do.
And that's the thing, this isn't what every racer lives for, and it's not even what most gamers consider a bargain. If you can do something similar in GTR, Forza or GT5 for much, much less - in the case of GT5, racing online for free, then this puts iR squarely in the pricey niche category for most of us.
Yeah fair enough... I guess for me with iRacing I found myself extremely happy just driving around in and competing in the Spec Racer Fords or Formula 2000 cars. The weakness of iRacing is that the races in the fastest of the fast tend to only happen maybe once or twice a week, so you're spending the rest of the time doing things like tweaking your setup and practicing that track. While I suppose this is more realistic, it can be annoying to those who just want to race.
For me though, when it came time to justifying the cost, I wasn't thinking about the relative cost of another racing game in the form of something like GT, I was thinking about the subscription to Eve Online that I was happily paying once a month. So I killed my subscription to Eve and that was that. Obviously that doesn't cover things like additional tracks and cars though.
This is why I like GT so much. They've done a great job of including all the high points that any good simulator should hit, but glossed over some of the minutia that only the hardest of the hardcore would miss.... but are things that mostly only slow the rest of us down when we just want a slipstreamed experience that gets us on the track and driving.
- 1,449
- San Antonio Tex
- Vaxxtx
- Vaxxtx
I use lots and lots of words.
Well, drama is in the mind of the beholder.
I guess I do come across as saying that the price of iRacing is preposterous. But be honest. There really aren't that many people who can afford to buy two new video games whenever they want, which in American stores is $120 plus tax. That's not a king's ransom, but if most of us have to budget for that, most of us have to save even more to rent a game forever. There is no end to it, so the ultimate cost of iRacing is just whenever you burn out or can't justify it anymore. It could ultimately be thousands of dollars. So it's not exactly what most people consider affordable, even if it is amortized over years.
You're right that the price is for a solid reason. But that reason is to buy into the fantasy of being a pro race car driver, going to the track in your virtual car according to the calendar and chase points in a championship run just like the big boys do.
And that's the thing, this isn't what every racer lives for, and it's not even what most gamers consider a bargain. There definitely is the question of whether iRacing is hundreds of dollars better in whatever way. If you can do something similar in GTR, Forza or GT5 for much, much less - in the case of GT5, racing online for free, then this puts iR squarely in the pricey niche category for most of us.
iRacing is not cheap, I agree. Right now I have been using for a few weeks.
I have spent 10 bucks so far (for 3 month sub).
With that I have had tons of practice runs, by myself, and others. I have done time trials. And I have participated in 5 online road races with a full grid, and mostly competent drivers. All this in rookie class. When I moved up I can pick and choose what race series I want, and then spend the money to accomodate it. Which lets just say I want a participate in a road race on Road America track (14 bucks), with the FordGT (11bucks). I can if I want to, or I can just keep using my starter cars and tracks (which can keep you busy for a long time).
There is an upside to the higher cost and simulation model though. Having to use cockpit view, and a wheel, having to use your real name, the higher cost of more tracks/cars, DOES keep some of the little kiddies away. Its nice to go into a race knowing 95% of the time people are following racing codes, and not acting like idiots.
Major 👍's for this one, the clutch in LFS feels more realistic, and yet its easy to use.
- 3,446
- GTP_Coxis
- Coxis
The only thing in which LFS is comparable to GT5 is the fact that GT5 got the Scirocco before LFS.
I'm sorry but LFS is a full blown PC sim, and one of the most affordable in every sense. It can be run decently by an old PC and has tons (and I really mean tons) of adjustability. From custom views to multiscreen, tachometer digit, needles and clocks colors, mirrors, axes for looking around your car, etc. The fact that the code isn't public means that the mods available are minimal, which reduces the complexity and time needed to invest for a new person approaching the PC sim scene.
You're comparing an almost 10 year old sim with a 2010 PS3 game and weighing everything in, LFS is still better in the things that should matter the most to true sim racers.
Like someone said, you should be comparing GT3 to LFS S2.
I'm sorry but LFS is a full blown PC sim, and one of the most affordable in every sense. It can be run decently by an old PC and has tons (and I really mean tons) of adjustability. From custom views to multiscreen, tachometer digit, needles and clocks colors, mirrors, axes for looking around your car, etc. The fact that the code isn't public means that the mods available are minimal, which reduces the complexity and time needed to invest for a new person approaching the PC sim scene.
You're comparing an almost 10 year old sim with a 2010 PS3 game and weighing everything in, LFS is still better in the things that should matter the most to true sim racers.
Like someone said, you should be comparing GT3 to LFS S2.
- 1,449
- San Antonio Tex
- Vaxxtx
- Vaxxtx
- 408
- United States
Silverstone
Watkins Glen
Brands Hatch
Mosport
Phillip Island
Mid Ohio
Zandvoort
Sebring
Road America
Oulton Park
Okayama
Homestead
Infineon Raceway
Road Atlanta
Lime Rock Park
Virginia International Raceway
Summit Point
Barber Motorsports Park
All real world road courses which GT does not offer that have been recreated with painful attention to detail.
Again, not playing the "iRacing is better" game card, but you can't deny that it offers a very impressive list of tracks to run at. The only disappointment is that it doesn't have the Nurburgring... but given iRacing's process for mapping each track, I'd say that it would be almost impossible for them to model it the same as they do all their other courses.
- 7,829
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- Tetsumura
- Nigel Fox
I forgot that iRacing came up with the... if you'll pardon the pun, short bus version.
Which allows you for much less to get a taste of the racer and let you decide if you want to buy into the full monty. Similarly, LFS offers the free S1 license, which is where I've remained myself, with a track and five cars to let you decide to dive in all the way.I know you sim guys must be baffled at us fans of GT5 and Forza who do what you find unthinkable, like racing offline against the somewhat mind-numbed bots, even in the rewardless Arcade Mode! I fully get your attitude that the sim of your choice gets you "X-factor" close to what it could be to race around in a real car on a real track. I know that it's a safer, more planted feeling in GT5, and I can tell that spinning out in a Ferrari I "race modded" in GT5 is a little different from the way a Ferrari racer spins out in whatever sim. But I keep coming back to the matter that they still behave extremely similarly. The sims of yore weren't as complex as what we have in GT5. And what about the realistic four-point bodyroll in Forza 4, which I haven't seen the likes of in any other racer to date?
With every sim game being "the same but different," or different enough that every gamer has their fave, I think there's plenty of room to include Forza 4 and GT5 in the definition of simulator without torturing it. I think Short Bus has the right attitude about the subject, that yes, the sims are better physics wise. But that GT5 is close enough that it still delivers something tangibly real, even if it fudges a few things, and doesn't bog you down with details like radiator cap pressure adjustment. As I mentioned, F4 and I don't get along too well, so I leave it to the fans of that game to proclaim its glory. So if you don't feel a certain thrill when taking a sports car with Comfort Soft tires around the Indy Infield or Nurb as fast as you can in GT5, I think you're just being "grudgemental." Yeah, I like to make up words.
Rather than going on the tact that "GT5 or Forza 4 blow in comparison to my game," I think we should be asking for them to be refined, so that at some point, they're also "the same but different" compared to some PC sim. I think adding that level of detail and finnickiness to Gran Turismo, even to racing leagues with league rules, won't hurt it at all, as long as the gamer can option around anything they have a problem with.
And on that note, I really need to get on the track myself...
- 408
- United States
I forgot that iRacing came up with the... if you'll pardon the pun, short bus version.
lol
This is the aspect of GT that I love, racing offline against bots. It's a different kind of fun, and also why I'm kinda disappointed with GT. I really wish the arcade system was further developed to allow me to choose one of the many non default cars in the arcade mode and actually get a fair run. It's disappointing when I favorite a car in my garage, like a '90 RX-7, only to have to run it against cars about 50 PP higher when I select it in arcade mode.
What would be nice is if arcade mode allowed you to choose things like what years, models, PP, etc that the game could choose from when selecting opponents in an arcade race.
- 1,449
- San Antonio Tex
- Vaxxtx
- Vaxxtx
No, but you did say no Spa or Suzuka...so I proved you dont what you are talking about.
I forgot that iRacing came up with the... if you'll pardon the pun, short bus version.
I know you sim guys must be baffled at us fans of GT5 and Forza who do what you find unthinkable, like racing offline against the somewhat mind-numbed bots, even in the rewardless Arcade Mode! I fully get your attitude that the sim of your choice gets you "X-factor" close to what it could be to race around in a real car on a real track. I know that it's a safer, more planted feeling in GT5, and I can tell that spinning out in a Ferrari I "race modded" in GT5 is a little different from the way a Ferrari racer spins out in whatever sim. But I keep coming back to the matter that they still behave extremely similarly. The sims of yore weren't as complex as what we have in GT5. And what about the realistic four-point bodyroll in Forza 4, which I haven't seen the likes of in any other racer to date?
With every sim game being "the same but different," or different enough that every gamer has their fave, I think there's plenty of room to include Forza 4 and GT5 in the definition of simulator without torturing it. I think Short Bus has the right attitude about the subject, that yes, the sims are better physics wise. But that GT5 is close enough that it still delivers something tangibly real, even if it fudges a few things, and doesn't bog you down with details like radiator cap pressure adjustment. As I mentioned, F4 and I don't get along too well, so I leave it to the fans of that game to proclaim its glory. So if you don't feel a certain thrill when taking a sports car with Comfort Soft tires around the Indy Infield or Nurb as fast as you can in GT5, I think you're just being "grudgemental." Yeah, I like to make up words.
Rather than going on the tact that "GT5 or Forza 4 blow in comparison to my game," I think we should be asking for them to be refined, so that at some point, they're also "the same but different" compared to some PC sim. I think adding that level of detail and finnickiness to Gran Turismo, even to racing leagues with league rules, won't hurt it at all, as long as the gamer can option around anything they have a problem with.
And on that note, I really need to get on the track myself...
Just 2 points.
The short bus version as you call it, it all the rookie stuff you need to get started, but also be played for years if one wanted. The other could be considered DLC.
I love and still play FM4 all the time. Unlike most, I can enjoy a simcade, and a simulator. I have no loyalty to a name, and play what I think is the best at the time...
Dont lump everyone in a camp
- 7,829
- U S A
- Tetsumura
- Nigel Fox
One more quickie and then I have GOT to fire up GT5. Oh, and hey Jordan. Enjoying the back n forth?
On your point above, SB, there's a thread here which deals with PD implementing an Event Maker rather like we had in GT2 but on steroids, and those interested in the subject should hop in and drop some of your input in the thread. I think it would be a fantastic addition to the GT5 gameplay options. Being able to create entire championships or racing seasons off- or online would be huge, in my opinion.
On your point above, SB, there's a thread here which deals with PD implementing an Event Maker rather like we had in GT2 but on steroids, and those interested in the subject should hop in and drop some of your input in the thread. I think it would be a fantastic addition to the GT5 gameplay options. Being able to create entire championships or racing seasons off- or online would be huge, in my opinion.
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- 133
- sheepborg
Because you probably hopped right in one of the rear drive cars and went right out onto the track in default setup.
Im sure that if you tried turning off TCS and other aids in gt5 and went out in an infinity iii rx7 or similar with comfort tires you would spin all day too.
And too, if you did not use a wheel for either, then there really is no reason to compare them. Trying to use a keyboard in LFS is ridiculous.
As per my thoughts on lfs, it definitely has a more real feel in the rear drive cars, but has that standard-car-esque wobble to the cars. Having driven the mechanical equivalent to the Vibe Gt that is in GT5, i can tell you they feel nothing alike. My daily driver matrix xr does not wobble, or tip but not turn about the track like many cars feel like in games.
Zer0
(Banned)
- 1,624
And no one is denying that. iRacing does more things so is more complex or better sim in general terms(but not night and day respect GT5) but even with the best physics in the world could not offer the fun of driving an authentic dealer road car at the limit in nurburgring 24h for example. Also can't in real time weather conditions and can't in real time lighting conditions.All true of course, but I assure you if you talked to Bryan in private he would tell you that iRacing is the better sim...
A better sim yes but at the same time very limited. If I want to experience the authenticity of driving a virtual EVO, 370Z, GT-R, SLS, etc.. GT5 is the sim to choose. Same with some combinations of tracks and road conditions.
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The problem is, GT doesn't offer that either. We have a Nurburgring 24h race, but it involves high end race cars. Hopefully this little problem will be rectified in future updates that would allow us to better create our own races. Because I would love nothing more than to tailor my own races at the ring using a group of cars that aren't in the ridiculously high PP range.
Zer0
(Banned)
- 1,624
The online forums exist for a reason, anyway the point was in the driving more than the racing.
GT5 has an awesome selection of cars no doubt, but iRacing has a pretty tasty slection of machinery too and some really unique ones as well...
http://www.iracing.com/cars-and-tracks/cars/
And the rookie Skip Barber car is an absolute joy to drive. Seriously, super fun.
http://www.iracing.com/cars-and-tracks/cars/
And the rookie Skip Barber car is an absolute joy to drive. Seriously, super fun.
