GT5P Online Rankings

[slicecom]

And I'm not saying I disagree with your comments regarding real life racing either mate

All I am saying is their are online racers out there who have been racing GT since the very beginning who can race a race like its multiple hotlaps back to back ... and there's plenty of them around! you will find that they are that competitive that they organize races over msn or chatrooms when to enter a specific event just to guarantee the quality of the field is better than a random click and enter

They do exist and can also throw down back to back laps that a lot of people would find hard to match even with a boost system

I'm sure given a few days and word of mouth ... some kind of meeting can be arranged where Earth can experience some Old School hotlappers in real time multilap races 👍

I'm not sure I'm ready to face some GT vets just yet! I've been having fun racing online and trying different and unconventional cars lately. If I was to face one of them, I'd want to spend some time with one car, getting the setup just right for the track etc...

Good debate!

 

[Sphinx]

If I was to face one of them, I'd want to spend some time with one car, getting the setup just right for the track etc...

You mean, hotlap for a while.

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

Personally, I'm glad there is currently no ranking for online races, as that would just create too much of an incentive to see more dirty tactic racing, and grossly inflated win/loss stats, like so many other online gamerankings... this is especially true given the current limitations on how online races are run... although, frankly, what online multi-player game has ever had fair rankings? There are simply too many ways people can "cheat" the system, thus making most multi-player online ranking systems rather meaningless.

I would much prefer to see the ability to create private races, and for the host to set-up the race with whatever options they want... just as you can do now with games like MotorStorm and F1CE.

Combine the ability to host private races with custom options, with the ability to save replays for online races, and then you have something really worthwhile in terms of rankings. Imagine if this was the case, every GTP_ race could be saved, and moderators for the GTP_ league could simply check the replays for any possible rules violations, and then record the results in a spreadsheet and post weekly results & ranking updates.

Sure, it would take some effort, just as it does to manage the WRC, but the results would be extremely meaningful... far more so than any kind of generic ranking system currently used by other online games.

That’s my two cents at least.

 

[Hugo Boss]

Earth, your arguments hardly make any sense. Yes, there are people that need 200 laps for a top 10 time, but I also know drivers who need less than 20.
Time trials are for the perfectionists, for people who enjoy finding those last tenths or maybe even thousands of a second and enjoy the competition. Not all of them are as consistent, but most of those drivers won't deny it either. So what's the problem, why do you need to generalize them 'hotlappers' and flame them? If it's not your cup of tea, fine, but then don't talk. Besides, like already mentioned, some 'hotlappers' are just as impressive in a real race as they are in time trial.

We've seen all the great real life drivers make mistakes now and then. Why do you think that is? Because when you want to drive on or just under the limit, you need to know where it is first!

All I can make of this is what Mr P already stated, it's just a big pile of sour grapes. The fact that you're proud of making no big mistakes when driving at the pace of a snail, already reveals you're not that much of a force to be reckoned with on the track. The boost in GT5P online, combined with the exaggerated slipstream effect, makes catching the leader or keeping up with him not a mission impossible.
However, as soon as we have private rooms where you can disable the boost, you really need to press the pedal to the metal if you want to finish up front. I can guarantee you that. So better start practicing, in time trial...

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

BTW: Another thing I would really like to see in GT5P/GT5 to help make online race rankings more meaningful are actual qualifying laps and the option of having races where everyone must use the exact same car and set-up... to truly isolate driver skill versus car selection/tuner skills... although races where everyone uses the exact same car, but can tune it any way they like would also be nice... such that it might highlight someone’s tuning skills. 👍

Unfortunately, with the current limitations of online races in GT5P, this would be next to impossible to accomplish.

 

[slicecom]

You mean, hotlap for a while.

Nope! I'd perfect my race setup by RACING online I set up my Ford GT Test yesterday in the free run area and it was great when I was the only car on the track, but when I went into a race, the car was uncontrollable if someone crossed my path because the setup was so aero-dependent. Couldn't have found that out doing hotlaps!

 

[DustDriver]

I really have to disagree that hotlapping is pointless.
a week ago i was doing an endurance race around a track in GT4. The lack of quality AI ment that it was just hotlapping all the time, trying to get as much time between me and the AI in position 2.

This weekend I managed to get second place in the holland lan on that very track, beating some pretty fast drivers.
And guess what, the only person faster was Hugo, an avid hotlapper

 

[Earth]

Haha some are saying that I think I am the best, lol I'm not stupid.

I predicted long ago way back when before GT4 came out and we all thought it would have online that I would be better then 80%+ of the general GT racers out there. Alot of that has to do with keeping the car on the track and not panicing under pressure during an online race, not all out speed or hot lapping skill. My prediction has been proven to be true, and it stays true with pretty much every racing game I play. I've never been the best and never will be but I've always been in the upper 25% which I'm thankful for. The privledge of being called the best is reserved for the .01% of us who just get it and find it natural.

Could Hugo Boss or some other LAN/tournament/hot lap driver run circles around me? Most likely. Do I care? No.

I'm just not a big fan of hot lapping "races" because I find them very unrealistic and hate the idea PD puts so much emphasis on hot lapping. Are some of the best drivers hot lappers? Yeah sure, why not? I just find that alot of them tend to push too hard in a race and make mistakes that would cost them dearly if it were real life. However there is the top tier of guys who can run the fastest laps and stay on track. If some of these guys are hot lappers then good for them.

I'm not saying its not possible to have good races with hotlappers, just that they both require different sets of skills.

Case in point: in real auto racing, some drivers are known as "racers" among fans, they usually qualify alright, but really shine during the race, performing more passes than most others, working their way through the pack. A real life example of this is Paul Tracy or JPM.

Other drivers always qualify well and if undisturbed, can stay out front and win the race, but if they're caught by other drivers and are forced to actually race, they don't bode so well. A prime example of a real life hotlapper is Sebastien Bourdais or Massa.

Some drivers have the ability to do both like Michael Schumacher (as much as I hate his guts).

This is exactly my point. To many around here the best racers are the top drivers in the WRS. But running a single lap fast is only part of what makes a good driver. How many fast drivers have lost a ride because they overdrive the car and crash or break it or have contact with others on the track too often?

A few come to mind, Kyle Busch lost his Hendricks ride, Juan Montoya lost his McLaren ride, Tomas Scheckter lost his Panther ride, Paul Tracy lost his Kool Green ride, just a couple examples of fast drivers who lost their ride because of overdriving the car and making poor decisions on the track.

Winning a few races against new GT people who won't have a clue what racing is all about isn't enough to call yourself the best racer,Earth.

I've already stated that I never thought I was the best, though I would like to be, but I'm not.

And my experience online isn't limited to racing GT5P a few weeks.

I've raced in an online Indy 500 with 26 drivers which took 2 months to carry due to a qualifying process that had to weed out 100+ entrants. I finished 3rd but led the last lap and crashed battling for the lead on the last lap.

I've raced an online 500 mile race at Talladega Superspeedway, 500 miles in a pack of 36 cars inches apart. I finished 8th or something but once again I was leading with 2 to go but the pack caught me and that was it.

I've raced an online 24 hours of Le Mans race with maybe 100+ drivers. Full Damage, engine failures, losing gears, no AIDS, the works. I started the car and ran as high as 8th in the 33 car field at the end of my first stint. We were running 5th with 7 hours left until a bug crashed the cars.

My experience in online racing goes far beyond GT5P, which I find to be the easiest of them all in terms of driving difficulty and skill of other drivers, but I never called myself the best there and I don't with GT5P.

Earth, your arguments hardly make any sense. Yes, there are people that need 200 laps for a top 10 time, but I also know drivers who need less than 20.
Time trials are for the perfectionists, for people who enjoy finding those last tenths or maybe even thousands of a second and enjoy the competition. Not all of them are as consistent, but most of those drivers won't deny it either. So what's the problem, why do you need to generalize them 'hotlappers' and flame them? If it's not your cup of tea, fine, but then don't talk. Besides, like already mentioned, some 'hotlappers' are just as impressive in a real race as they are in time trial.

You are right here, sometimes I stick my nose in something I don't really care about or like and give a strong opinion. I really shouldn't.

We've seen all the great real life drivers make mistakes now and then. Why do you think that is? Because when you want to drive on or just under the limit, you need to know where it is first!

All I can make of this is what Mr P already stated, it's just a big pile of sour grapes. The fact that you're proud of making no big mistakes when driving at the pace of a snail, already reveals you're not that much of a force to be reckoned with on the track. The boost in GT5P online, combined with the exaggerated slipstream effect, makes catching the leader or keeping up with him not a mission impossible.
However, as soon as we have private rooms where you can disable the boost, you really need to press the pedal to the metal if you want to finish up front. I can guarantee you that. So better start practicing, in time trial...

I don't drive at the pace of a snail, as I've said I can drive my pace and still beat 80% of drivers out there (in NASCAR 2003 & GT5P) and even win some which is just fine with me. Some drivers in these games go tens of races or more without winning, I am not so greedy to think I should win every time I race.

Although it is hard to guage your skill in GT5P due to the exaggerated draft and the rubberband physics, my results speak for themselves. I am as good as I thought I would be, not better or worst. Not to mention I like to drive the tougher cars online (with no AIDs except ABS1, I would have it off but I think PD needs to perfect the feel first and give those who don't use it an advantage), the Ford GT, the Ford GT Test Car, the Ferrari 512bb, while alot of the 'fast' guys I have seen are driving the 'on rails' cars that take very little skill to drive fast.

But once again it is hard to judge your speed because of the rubberband physics, but if you throw in damage my 'snail' driving will save me and allow me to finish more races. Thanks.

Though I will agree with the hotlappers on one point, they have exposed that I have lost something...the need...something they have and I don't...and it kills me..

Watch this video...it explains me perfectly. The hot lappers have it, I don't. I guess I'm just a sour grape after all...please help me to get the need...

1:34-1:56

 

[Sphinx]

Nope! I'd perfect my race setup by RACING online I set up my Ford GT Test yesterday in the free run area and it was great when I was the only car on the track, but when I went into a race, the car was uncontrollable if someone crossed my path because the setup was so aero-dependent. Couldn't have found that out doing hotlaps!

Seeing that you just made a gallant effort to claw your way out of that one, I'll give it to you. Well done. 👍

 

[slicecom]

Seeing that you just made a gallant effort to claw your way out of that one, I'll give it to you. Well done. 👍

Thanks!

 

[Sphinx]

Thanks!

You're welcome.

 

[DustDriver]

until a bug crashed the cars

Must have been a pretty big bug
was it smaller or bigger than this one?

 

[arora]

Haha some are saying that I think I am the best, lol I'm not stupid.

Remind you of anyone?

I predicted long ago way back when before GT4 came out and we all thought it would have online that I would be better then 80%+ of the general GT racers out there.

If I was in highschool that might rev me up and I'd look for you, but now I'm all grown up and would much rather waite for private rooms and hopefully some organized events 👍

 

[Earth]

Must have been a pretty big bug
was it smaller or bigger than this one?

Nope, it looked like this



Maybe one of these days you will be lucky enough to get in such a race

If I was in highschool that might rev me up and I'd look for you, but now I'm all grown up and would much rather waite for private rooms and hopefully some organized events

I'm surprised that statement gets you fired up. Anybody on this Gran Turismo site that is serious into GT like me is better then 80% of the chaff out there.

 

[slicecom]

If I was in highschool that might rev me up and I'd look for you, but now I'm all grown up and would much rather waite for private rooms and hopefully some organized events 👍

I've raced against Earth many, many times and he's easily better than 80% of the drivers online in GT5P. I'd say almost everyone on this board are better than 80% of the drivers online as most of the drivers online aren't all that great.

 

[arora]

I've raced against Earth many, many times and he's easily better than 80% of the drivers online in GT5P. I'd say almost everyone on this board are better than 80% of the drivers online as most of the drivers online aren't all that great.

Visit some other boards, or look at some bc results.

 

[slicecom]

Visit some other boards, or look at some bc results.

Add up all the enthusiast boards and they still make up a very small segment of the people who play the game online.

 

[Hugo Boss]

Nope, it looked like this

You should have let the host turn the 'highly explosive cones for cutting off the track'-option off. It's a good solution for dealing with cheaters, though 👍

I'm surprised that statement gets you fired up. Anybody on this Gran Turismo site that is serious into GT like me is better then 80% of the chaff out there.

Indeed, just as everybody would agree with 'to finish first, you first need to finish'. So why mention it then? Also because you tend to stick your nose in things when you actually shouldn't? No need trying to be the wiseguy here, because a lot of people here know how to race properly and most of them are adults too.

If some recognition is what you're looking for, just be polite and helpful on the forum and be a fair racer on the track. Making statements where you re-invent the wheel may impress the 12 year olds under us or maybe even the 60+'ers who grew demented, still chances are over 80% it will only annoy the adults.

 

[Mr P]

I've raced against Earth many, many times and he's easily better than 80% of the drivers online in GT5P. I'd say almost everyone on this board are better than 80% of the drivers online as most of the drivers online aren't all that great.

Thats cool mate! I hope you continue to have good races with him too ... but it still doesn't explain why there was any need for the hotlappers to fear their days were numbered! I have had races with many people I know and some I don't and some might be hotlappers and some might be enduro racers but I never categorize these people .. we are as good as we push ourselves to be imo ... I just see dedicated hotlappers tend to push the limit lap after lap to get their best fast lap and can apply this to a short race also with relative ease.

These various videos of an old games glitches and a crappy racing movie are nothing more than a sidetrack from the subject at hand! The only things worth discussing now after the can of worms was inevitably opened is an ass and a plate and who's will be handed to who

Looking forward to some cool video footage of these events also, as there will surely be some recorders hooked up waiting for a nice talked up online meeting like this to occur

 

[gtbadboy]

.......... Making statements where you re-invent the wheel may impress the 12 year olds under us or maybe even the 60+'ers who grew demented, still chances are over 80% it will only annoy the adults.

Hugo, I resemble that 60+'ers. I am mortally wounded.
Demented? ............naw. Crazy as a loon? ........yep.

Impressed by our friend? not ever.

Impressed by a recent video
I viewed of a race at the "Ring"?

Demented? reall? Do I seem demented?

 

[Hugo Boss]

Hahaha, Ron, tasteful bait, isn't it?

 

[superwally]

Sheesh, I gotta start reading all these threads.

I'm a recent hotlapper, started about a year ago. I've always been a bit obsessive about picking up tenths, finally found a way to compare my times via the WRS here. I'm also new to online racing, never did LAN events or anything like that. I used to live in the middle of nowhere.

I can't run the fastest times hotlapping. Very rarely will I win a week, and I'm that person who needs the 200 laps to get it down. I have problems with concentration and repeating mistakes (essentially the same thing), and if the best way around Turn A in Car B at the Nurb doesn't occur to me, I'll never know it, but I keep learning. My consistency has improved. I'm reaching nearer my best times in fewer laps. I am learning to pilot ANY beast, and find my way around ANY track.

Why? Practice. All hotlapping really is-practice, but the most fun kind of practice there is. How can you argue against it?

What changes with online play? I can follow other drivers. I can see other lines. I focus much better-it's more like reality. I learned how to pilot the 111R around Suzuka by following a top 10 ghost, and it shaved SECONDS off my best time. I learned that my skill level in the WRS directly correlates to how well I can run online(PAL)-I think others here can vouch for that.

Earth, I'm surprised it took this long for you to dig this hole-you've been carrying a shovel for quite a while!

See you out there when I get my NTSC copy. I like to drive an F40 with the ABS on 1 (sorry, DFGT pedals have no feel) and everything else off. I start up front because I keep the PP low-you should try it. Reasonably consistent, quick driving (you know, about 80th percentile or so) will keep you there, and you might enjoy the online play more.

 

[fasj6418]

i don't get the critic. its like practice is something bad. like, michael jordan is only the best because he shot 1000 jumpers everyday. i only have 30 minutes a week to shoot"

any work you put onto to something gives you a rewarding. 90% of the OLR guys i know are no fluke. most people come to this board (please, i'm not directing this at you earth) and get thrown off by the best times set in WRS.

its always been like this. first, the nurb would kill the hotlappers because they wouldn't be able to do it for 6 minutes. then the new phisics in GT5 would kill the hotlappers because the car would not behave like a robot anymore. now consecutive laps will kill them.

like on the previous times, i don't think so. let's say holl win an event with a lap of 1'26'358. people like to believe that he gets a perfect lap and then goes on to do 1'29 in the following lap and then 1'30. but it's not really like that. he's probably running his lap on the 1'26'8 to 1'27'0 range. there's a hotlap pace and a racing pace, i agree with you. but still, the racing pace of a guy like hugo boss, trek450, holl is a lot faster than the racing pace of the guy that doesn't do really well in hot lap events.

i do agree that we should have a stat tracking for how many hours put in to that lap, how many wins and so, but don't fool yourself. records don't just fall on your lap.

 

[Earth]

I suggest some take a look at this 4 year old thread I created before GT4 was released

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=47960

Please also see my reply to my own topic post #20

So much for me thinking I am the best

 

[arora]

I suggest some take a look at this 4 year old thread I created before GT4 was released

Not sure why, but I did take a look. Since you've been at gtp for four years I'll put an egg in your beer Looks to me like most chose 50% I did get a kick out of Kelly's post though, you go girl.

To be honest it's just a little modesty that would be nice, that way there's no need to eat crow 👍

 

[Kelly]

Not sure why, but I did take a look. Since you've been at gtp for four years I'll put an egg in your beer Looks to me like most chose 50% I did get a kick out of Kelly's post though, you go girl.

To be honest it's just a little modesty that would be nice, that way there's no need to eat crow 👍

LOL thanks Erik, maybe I was a little too modest there


Earth it's saying things like this...

"Hotlappers your time has almost come to an end, the days of GT4 hotlapping are almost over, and soon, once GT5P has private lobbies the "Hotlapper" will become extinct! or most likely put into his rightful place behind races "

You know for sure that's gonna start up a debate! it's quite insulting, and considering most GT players hotlap 90% of the time you are bound to get a response.
I don't see the "hotlappers" going anywhere do you? in fact I'm pretty sure they are enjoying the abilty to race against real people online just like you, isn't it what we've all been waiting for?
So while us "hotlappers" (and yes I am one too) have been waiting for online racing the same as everyone else, we have also been learning to tune a car and know every track like the back of our hand.
It doesn't mean we aren't capable of running proper races! it means we are more then ready for racing against others. 15 other cars on the track with us makes no difference, the lap times might be slower but I would bet my house that they can and still do kick arse!

Hotlapping is a part of GT5P too, and there's nothing boring about trying to set a lap record, it's actually quite enjoyable and some guys can do it within 30mins for others it will take days, but it makes no difference, so long as your name is at the top of that leaderboard then every lap has been worth it!
You can't record your progress and finishing postitions in races but you can in a time trial and the whole world can see your perfect lap and try beat it if they like. It feels more of an acheivement setting a world record than it does winning a one off online race against 15 other people IMO.

The "hotlapper" will never become extinct and the only rightful place we will be put is 1st at the end of every race

 

[II IVORBIGUN II]

We used to have a very similiar debate on the Forza 2 forums about this subject.

At the end of the day we all enjoy playing racing games in different ways. I personally prefer hotlapping to online racing but when I do get around to racing I prefer to have a choice of options rather than how it is at the moment.

Like I said previously when hotlapping you will find you are always putting in similiar laptimes. Now where that .500 comes from that gives you a top 10 place isn't always because you are taking more risks but because you nailed the apex of just one particular bend. This is what I love about GT5P is the way you have to be so precise because you would be amazed at how much time you can gain or lose just on one particular bend. The other day me and my friends were hotlapping (can't remember car) and we found just by shifting from 4th to 5th a little later resulted in us knocking nearly a second off our laptimes.

So really there is no right or wrong in this debate because we should allow people to play GT5P in whatever way they wish.

 

[soptom]

Quali (Hotlapping) and Racing are two totally different things. In ALL major forms of motorsport, lap times during the race are significantly slower than quali times. They're two totally different skill sets.

It's not only the mind set of a hot lapper versus a racer, in qualification, you aren't using a multi-lap fuel load, you're not conserving tyres/fuel/brakes, you aren't battling fatigue, you haven't got a race stradegy to consider.
Yes in a race you have other cars attempting to ruin your laps, but it isn't as simple as that alone.

 

[gtbadboy]

Well, I've calmed down now as there was a bee in my bonnet yesterday for sure. As one of the senior citizens around here (I'm fast going on 60) l should be a more calming factor so I shall attempt to do so.

I've only been playing this game for oh, maybe 2 years. When I first arrived at WRS I didn't know an apex from pit lane. The only stressful driving I'd ever done was rush hour in D.C. Gradually from hot lapping and making friends here (the helpful kind) I learned about track management. I learned from those whom I hold in very hight esteem to use a manual tranny and no driving aids. I practiced, I hotlapped and I've learned quite a bit about racing as well.

Now maybe, just maybe I've improved to the point that when I do go on line I am not a danger to those around me. I suppose had it not been for those 2 years of running in good company that I may be the subject of some of the complaints we are constantly reading about concerning on line racers. If you can call them that. I'd rather let you go than make a bad pass. Do I make bad passes, sure I do, I think we all do here and there we're only human. I just try NOT to make bad passes. If you leave me that inside line and I think I can out brake you I will more than likely attempt to take advantage without causing you damage. If I'm lucky enough to get to the front (and I have won my share) I try to use the knowledge gained as a "hotlapper" to use the fastest line I can to stay there.

When I take a new car out of the garage in gt5p do I go directly into a race? NO! I free run it. (hot lap if you will) I want to know what that car is going to do before I try to push it in a race. I suspect our constant source of #ankers don't do that. I suspect most of my lesser experienced hot lappers aka racers do the same. So hot lappers are here to stay and to suggest otherwise is just nonsense.

Our competitive nature suggests that if someone puts up a "record" time in a roller skate with a 5hp go cart engine someone else will come along and want to break it. It's just the nature of the beast. How fast can I lap in a car that is under powered by say 50 hp? Can I give up 100 PP and still be competitive? If I use the perfect line can I ........?
So you see my friend the questions will never end and there aren't enough answers to go around.

Enjoy your racing on line Earth, and those of us who care to do so will enjoy both.

Oh yea, just one more thing. My grand daddy taught me that when the hole gets over your head..............put the shovel down!

 

[slicecom]

Well, I've calmed down now as there was a bee in my bonnet yesterday for sure. As one of the senior citizens around here (I'm fast going on 60) l should be a more calming factor so I shall attempt to do so.

I've only been playing this game for oh, maybe 2 years. When I first arrived at WRS I didn't know an apex from pit lane. The only stressful driving I'd ever done was rush hour in D.C. Gradually from hot lapping and making friends here (the helpful kind) I learned about track management. I learned from those whom I hold in very hight esteem to use a manual tranny and no driving aids. I practiced, I hotlapped and I've learned quite a bit about racing as well.

Now maybe, just maybe I've improved to the point that when I do go on line I am not a danger to those around me. I suppose had it not been for those 2 years of running in good company that I may be the subject of some of the complaints we are constantly reading about concerning on line racers. If you can call them that. I'd rather let you go than make a bad pass. Do I make bad passes, sure I do, I think we all do here and there we're only human. I just try NOT to make bad passes. If you leave me that inside line and I think I can out brake you I will more than likely attempt to take advantage without causing you damage. If I'm lucky enough to get to the front (and I have won my share) I try to use the knowledge gained as a "hotlapper" to use the fastest line I can to stay there.

When I take a new car out of the garage in gt5p do I go directly into a race? NO! I free run it. (hot lap if you will) I want to know what that car is going to do before I try to push it in a race. I suspect our constant source of #ankers don't do that. I suspect most of my lesser experienced hot lappers aka racers do the same. So hot lappers are here to stay and to suggest otherwise is just nonsense.

Our competitive nature suggests that if someone puts up a "record" time in a roller skate with a 5hp go cart engine someone else will come along and want to break it. It's just the nature of the beast. How fast can I lap in a car that is under powered by say 50 hp? Can I give up 100 PP and still be competitive? If I use the perfect line can I ........?
So you see my friend the questions will never end and there aren't enough answers to go around.

Enjoy your racing on line Earth, and those of us who care to do so will enjoy both.

Oh yea, just one more thing. My grand daddy taught me that when the hole gets over your head..............put the shovel down!

What is with the hotlappers' elitest attitude around here!? This is a videogame people! All I'm saying is that hotlapping and racing require 2 different skills sets and doing hotlapping only will not make you a good racer and doing racing only will not make you a good hotlapper.