GT6 The real forza emulator.

[Wardez]

Yeah that's why I said, " if they allowed," it boggles the mind how little that feature is utilized.

Then the only thing to deal with is transferring image samples and elements from a computer to the PS3 with a thumb drive, or by using the PS3 browser (eek).

 

[hairystig]

Ok not everyone has a pc but not everyone has an internet connection so does that mean we shouldn't have seasonal events because it excludes those who aren't online?

 

[Samus]

I don't understand where you got the idea that Sony's servers could be exploited through easily defeatable means like trojan images, which would be stopped before anything could even start to be uploaded with a quick scan, or packet sniffing, which is always easily prevented by having the enterprise servers they employ. Companies that were only moderately prepared could be overwhelmed by such methods back then, but security's so good these days it's not even worth worrying about.

Security so good? Need I remind you that the whole network was hacked not long ago? Allowing people to upload data from an outside source is never something Sony or MS would want to do, MS don't even want things going from the Xbox to a memory stick.

Plus it wouldn't just be JPG or PNG images we'd be uploading, livery textures don't work that simply, we would be uploading texture files. There is plenty of scope for hacking via doing so.

Also it's not just Sony servers as a whole that could be comprimised, any number of things could be affected including the game itself.

About the fact that not every one has a computer available:
most people still do, so it's definitely worth doing. And even if a user doesn't have a computer, they will still be able to download liveries, so it works.

So your reply to me saying many people don't have a PC is you saying that most people do? Erm, ok. That clears that up once and for all. Not.

Ok not everyone has a pc but not everyone has an internet connection so does that mean we shouldn't have seasonal events because it excludes those who aren't online?

No because that's not a major feature of the game, it's just extra races. Excluding people from a major feature of the game is not a good idea.

 

[hairystig]

Is online racing not a major feature of gt5?

 

[Samus]

Yes but everyone knows you need to be online to race online, the clue is in the name. Nobody is going to be annoyed the can't race online if they're not online. A livery editor shouldn't require an online connection, nor should it require extra hardware.

 

[hairystig]

So in your world we couldn't possibly have an online marketplace for liverys.

 

[Wardez]

Sony wasn't hacked overnight, or by exploiting some laymen hole in their infrastructure. It was a major operation. What precedent do you have for a service being exploited through user-uploading architecture? And by "texture files" do you mean bitmaps/BMPs? BMP files are pretty much just uncompressed image files, where JPEGs are well compressed variations, still no danger there.

Computer proliferation:
What I'm getting at is that features shouldn't be limited just because, say, 10% of the target userbase doesn't have compatible hardware. People aren't really being excluded either, yes, the small group may be unable to make the liveries themselves but they'll still be able to download and apply the many thousands of liveries that'll inevitably be produced. I'd think many would say it's worth the small trouble.

 

[Exorcet]

This way people could truly innovate and do exactly whatever they want. Forza's editor is awesome for what it is but it's just held back too much by the hardware. Sure, you can make awesome intricate and complex graphics, but they take ages to do and only those with seemingly unlimited time can produce them. Allowing us to make liveries on our own would mean that we'd get thousands of options relatively right away.

It doesn't take long. My first livery:

was made within a day after getting used to the editor for a couple of days. After that, it only got quicker. Having an idea in mind is most important thing I think, that makes it go much faster.

the performance point system they've already ripped, and it's a shame too, because I really don't care for systems like it what so ever; they're misleading most of the time. They need to stop holding our hands when it comes to figuring performance, cars shouldn't be rated like in RPGs, we should have to rely on figuring out performance matching on our own. It would make for more tactful approaches to racing.

Taking out the PP system would only make it take longer to figure out what cars were competitive and it was also make it harder to regulate races online. It's not hand holding, and it's pretty much necessary for online racing unless you only want to race cars by class (ALSM, Super GT, etc).

Computer proliferation:
What I'm getting at is that features shouldn't be limited just because, say, 10% of the target userbase doesn't have compatible hardware. People aren't really being excluded either, yes, the small group may be unable to make the liveries themselves but they'll still be able to download and apply the many thousands of liveries that'll inevitably be produced. I'd think many would say it's worth the small trouble.

I have a computer and I think this is ridiculous. I shouldn't have to leave the game to make a livery. This idea would be terrible. They can allow computer created liveries as long as you can still make them in game.

 

[Samus]

So in your world we couldn't possibly have an online marketplace for liverys.

You are just being stupid now, you know exactly what my point is. Not being able to sell/trade liveries does not exclude you from creating them yourself.

Sony wasn't hacked overnight, or by exploiting some laymen hole in their infrastructure. It was a major operation. What precedent do you have for a service being exploited through user-uploading architecture? And by "texture files" do you mean bitmaps/BMPs? BMP files are pretty much just uncompressed image files, where JPEGs are well compressed variations, still no danger there.

None of that changes the fact it's opening up a potential hole for no real reason. You can be sure if PD went to Sony and said they wanted to do this the first thing Sony would say is "why can't you do it on the console?"

Computer proliferation:
What I'm getting at is that features shouldn't be limited just because, say, 10% of the target userbase doesn't have compatible hardware. People aren't really being excluded either, yes, the small group may be unable to make the liveries themselves but they'll still be able to download and apply the many thousands of liveries that'll inevitably be produced. I'd think many would say it's worth the small trouble.

I don't think they would, people want to create their own liveries. If they can only download other peoples that's not much different from the liveries already on cars, there is just more choice.

Besides even if people do have a computer it's still not practical. If I'm playing a game on my PS3 and decide I want to make a livery I don't want to go and power up my PC, design it then faff about transferring it to my game.

A livery editor has to be in game.

 

[Wardez]

@Exorcet
It doesn't take long to make simple liveries, of course, but to create the ones with things like animals and people on them takes countless hours to get in-game. It doesn't have to be that way.
Taking out the PP system doesn't make things much harder at all. All one really needs is the power to weight ratio, tire compound, and drivetrain component information. Doesn't take a physics major to figure out the parity or disparity between cars after that. Definitely not necessary for matching any type of car together for online racing. All they need to really do there is allow race hosts to inspect all the players' cars and set ups for better matching.

Your last point is definitely what it would come down to. While I really don't see it as much of a stretch to have to use a computer or alternate means to create liveries (just look at how many devices people interact with on a daily basis anyway) I agree that making it available in both ways, both with a simple in-game editor and supporting advanced editing through uploading custom computer-made skins, would be ideal - great compromise.

@Simon
Please never outright call other users insults like that, you're asking for trouble, a little more control would do you well.

I'm not sure about "holes" being opened, I don't really think they have to open themselves up more at all for a simple thing like uploading images, someone with more knowledge on the systems behind it can let us know.

Like I said to Exorcet, there can be a compromise between the two approaches, and that would be just awesome. A livery editor has to be in game for people that don't have immediate access or are just too busy or unmotivated to do it on their computer. But that still leaves a huge group of people that are more than happy to get to do it on their computers. Right now I'm typing this post on a 40" LED TV that I use as both my computer and PS3 screen, and a lot of my GT5 friends have set ups where their computers are right next to where they have their PS3s.
Not trying to say every one should follow suit, just that it's not like the old days anymore, so features in games should show that a bit more.

 

[Spagetti69]

Not sure Sony have the right to allow copyright protected images uploaded into there game.

Pretty certain Forza sails close to the wind in that regard too. Ok I made my own JPS logo but it's pretty obvious who I'm copying.

Directly using a logo/manufacturer/identity or what ever, without permission is not allowed is it?

 

[Exorcet]

@Exorcet
It doesn't take long to make simple liveries, of course, but to create the ones with things like animals and people on them takes countless hours to get in-game. It doesn't have to be that way.

Fair enough, though I don't see how the computer exclusively would make things faster. You could have templates on the console directly. Forza actually makes things like this easy. Someone can come up with a horrendously complex livery and then put individual pieces up for others to use as they want. The only downside is that Forza (at least FM3) didn't allow editing of items you got from online.

Taking out the PP system doesn't make things much harder at all. All one really needs is the power to weight ratio, tire compound, and drivetrain component information. Doesn't take a physics major to figure out the parity or disparity between cars after that. Definitely not necessary for matching any type of car together for online racing. All they need to really do there is allow race hosts to inspect all the players' cars and set ups for better matching.

Player inspection would just be time consuming and without some in game metric that is automatically enforced by the game, it becomes harder to stomp out cheaters. Power weight/tire/drivertrain also isn't really that great when it comes to match making anyway.

(just look at how many devices people interact with on a daily basis anyway)

This is often because they need to different tasks though. I don't have to go to my oven to use my toaster. I'd only use them both when doing two different things. But as long as the game supports the ability to create complete liveries, they can add things elsewhere. That I can agree with.

 

[eran0004]

Less Japanese cars only make sense from an unbiased viewpoint given that Japan only makes a fraction of the total number of cars ever designed.

On average, 18.4% of all cars made from 1999 to 2011 were made in Japan. It's a huge fraction. They've were the #1 car producing country for ages, until China out of nowhere claimed the top position in 2009 (which they've comfortably held ever scince). Looking only on the graph it seems like a lot of Japanese production moved to China, as well as some US and German production. Some of the decline could also be because of the financial crisis of course.

Here is a graph of the worlds top automotive industry nations by production number.

What's interesting is to compare these numbers to the distribution of cars in GT5 compared with how a "fair" distribution from actual production numbers would have looked like. Limiting the number of cars to what were in the game at launch (219 premiums, excluding the X2010 and the gocart), excluding the standard cars (scince they are from previous generations of the game) and only taking into consideration countries that already have premium cars in the game, the result is this:

(The blue bars are number of cars in GT5, the red bars is what the numbers should be if they were based only on production numbers from each country)

So if we base our wishes for cars to be included (and excluded) only on real production numbers, then yes there would be some fewer Japanese cars. But we would also lose nearly as many cars from Italy. The number of US cars would be the same, but Germany would get a huge boost (and no it wouldn't be Porsches, it would probably be mostly Volkswagens). We would also get some more Renaults, Citroens and Peugeots... and one of two Volvo's (please let it be the V40!!)

But then again, the numbers aren't telling the whole truth, many brands produce cars in other countries. For instance, 60% of the cars made in China are not Chinese brands and that sort of screws up the numbers. 60% of those 14 million cars made in China could in theory be Volkswagens, but they count for China and not Germany...

 

[Samus]

Your closing comments says it all, those numbers are pretty worthless because many, many cars are made in countries they do not originate from.

Plus you have to bear in mind one of the biggest influences in car lists is desirability. Millions of hatchbacks are produced each year compared to only a relative handful of supercars but they're always going to generally be more desirable to game players.

 

[paskowitz]

Lets get something clear. A livery editor is not a "Forza feature". Forza did not invent the livery editor. It did not invent it in a racing game or a "sim". Other "Forza features" are merely features Forza has. They are also "features" other games have. By GT including these features, it does not make GT a Forza clone.

If there is a feature GT adds that makes it a better game and a better sim, you should not care what other title also has that feature. What you should want, as a GT fan, is for GT to be better.


In terms of a livery editor, I think the only reasons PD have not included are they believe it does not fit the aesthetic nature of GT and they wanted to focus on other features.

I will end with this. In my opinion the most unique feature GT should add is a fully featured event creator for offline and online modes. I would have to go all the way back to GTR2 to find anything close to what I would call "a fully featured event creator". Combine this with decent Ai and GT value would go through the roof. Why more people don't beg for this is a bit confusing.

 

[diegorborges]

Lets get something clear. A livery editor is not a "Forza feature". Forza did not invent the livery editor. It did not invent it in a racing game or a "sim". Other "Forza features" are merely features Forza has. They are also "features" other games have. By GT including these features, it does not make GT a Forza clone.

If there is a feature GT adds that makes it a better game and a better sim, you should not care what other title also has that feature. What you should want, as a GT fan, is for GT to be better.


In terms of a livery editor, I think the only reasons PD have not included are they believe it does not fit the aesthetic nature of GT and they wanted to focus on other features.

I will end with this. In my opinion the most unique feature GT should add is a fully featured event creator for offline and online modes. I would have to go all the way back to GTR2 to find anything close to what I would call "a fully featured event creator". Combine this with decent Ai and GT value would go through the roof. Why more people don't beg for this is a bit confusing.

NASCAR Racing from Papyrus had a livery editor way back in 1994 if I'm not mistaken...

 

[mikecustom]

Sony wasn't hacked overnight, or by exploiting some laymen hole in their infrastructure. It was a major operation. What precedent do you have for a service being exploited through user-uploading architecture? And by "texture files" do you mean bitmaps/BMPs? BMP files are pretty much just uncompressed image files, where JPEGs are well compressed variations, still no danger there.

Computer proliferation:
What I'm getting at is that features shouldn't be limited just because, say, 10% of the target userbase doesn't have compatible hardware. People aren't really being excluded either, yes, the small group may be unable to make the liveries themselves but they'll still be able to download and apply the many thousands of liveries that'll inevitably be produced. I'd think many would say it's worth the small trouble.

The point of a Livery editor is that you create your own liveries, I don't want to browse trough thousands of crappy liveries until I find a good one, Consoles are aimed at a different market than the PCs, people that buy a console should be able to enjoy a game without having to touch any other hardware.

Also, how do you think MW2 and COD4 hot hacked? all their hacks work with an image.q

 

[analog]

Long post with fancy graphs

This is the quote you responded to.

Less Japanese cars only make sense from an unbiased viewpoint given that Japan only makes a fraction of the total number of cars ever designed.

I don't think he (or anyone for that matter) literally meant the number of cars sold and basing their importance on that.
No, it's simply the number of cars build, or better put, designed and put into production, or even more clear, just all the different car models produced.
Japan has a lot of current car brands for a single country of its size and therefor a lot of brands and models included are going to be Japanese.
I think all people are requesting is to have a similar focus on other countries as well, meaning most big brands with a huge history having largely the same amount of car models available in GT6.
Maybe GT5 isn't representative at all with a lot of Japanese brands having a small selection (of Premium cars) as well so I expect (and hope) for even more Japanese cars but that the balance (or bias) is more even, that simply means more of anything else to counterbalance it.

 

[Exorcet]

As stated by analog, the number produced as in sold doesn't mean anything. It's the variety of cars produced. Japan is high on that list, but as far as I know it's certainly not at the top by a wide margin as it is in GT's typical car line up.

 

[Akbar2k7]

livery is a must i wana make replicas and custom tunes etc etc

 

[Akbar2k7]

It doesn't take long. My first livery:

was made within a day after getting used to the editor for a couple of days. After that, it only got quicker. Having an idea in mind is most important thing I think, that makes it go much faster.



Taking out the PP system would only make it take longer to figure out what cars were competitive and it was also make it harder to regulate races online. It's not hand holding, and it's pretty much necessary for online racing unless you only want to race cars by class (ALSM, Super GT, etc).


I have a computer and I think this is ridiculous. I shouldn't have to leave the game to make a livery. This idea would be terrible. They can allow computer created liveries as long as you can still make them in game.

Thats awesome I want to design my personal GT500 supra ! COME ON GT6 BRING ME LIVERY. even though I wont get it cause I will be at uni, unless i take my ps3 to uni.

 

[Barn One]

I have been waitoing for the very options almost every racing game now has except GT since Gt1.
Heck, i'm still waiting for split times, its only been over a decade, it COULD still happen.....
If the next GT doesn't have these features, it's simply a no purchase from me and they get the EA treatment from me as no longer being worthy of purchase,period.
I'm waiting on a certain project to release that will be more ambitious than anything PD's done in 3 successive sequals.
Finally a PROPER full sim on a console.
I remember reading an article in one of these GT forums where Kaz actually said if enough people wanted split times, they could look into adding it.
What, is he blind? It's only been over a decade, there is still time, right?
RIGHT?

 

[GTP_Gearhead]

Yes, a game similar to Forza 4 would be great.
With the selection of irrelevant cars like GT, with all the goodies of Forza would be amazing.

I voted yes.

GT graphics and physics, with Forza cars and options.

 

[KinLM]

Why do you all blame PD? If you geniuses would open up your eyes and ears, you'd recall that you kept blasting Kaz, and all of PD whenever they delayed it. Yet, now you're saying they rushed it.

Well, I wonder why they felt the need to do that.

Think about it. You always say that they don't listen to anything you request. Well, all of you wouldn't stop complaining that 5 years is too long. And when they finally just released the game, you get mad again.

What you need to realize is that PD is a place where perfection just isn't quite good enough. So when you rush them, they can't work the way they need to. They wanted it to be perfect, you wanted it to come out sooner.

In the end, you got what you wanted, so stop complaining about the company, because I'd rather play GT5 any day than a copy of Forza with a PD label on it.

Sure PD makes some really dumb decisions, but there's no other game like it, and sometimes you just have to respect their individuality.

 

[Spagetti69]

Ah I see. It's our fault.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

Why do you all blame PD? If you geniuses would open up your eyes and ears, you'd recall that you kept blasting Kaz, and all of PD whenever they delayed it. Yet, now you're saying they rushed it.

Well, I wonder why they felt the need to do that.

Think about it. You always say that they don't listen to anything you request. Well, all of you wouldn't stop complaining that 5 years is too long. And when they finally just released the game, you get mad again.

What you need to realize is that PD is a place where perfection just isn't quite good enough. So when you rush them, they can't work the way they need to. They wanted it to be perfect, you wanted it to come out sooner.

In the end, you got what you wanted, so stop complaining about the company, because I'd rather play GT5 any day than a copy of Forza with a PD label on it.

Sure PD makes some really dumb decisions, but there's no other game like it, and sometimes you just have to respect their individuality.

Oh please.

I know Tornado posted this here already, but I think it needs to be brought up again. When Kaz said GT5 is in suitable condition to be released like he said here...

“I want to release it as fast as I can, but GT5 for us, when you talk about its status, it’s at a point we can release it any time we want, but we can always keep working on it. It’s very important for us to make sure everything is done perfectly and everything is done in detail.”

https://www.gtplanet.net/we-can-release-gran-turismo-5-whenever-we-want/

...Don't blame other people for actually wanting the game.

 

[Exorcet]

Why do you all blame PD? If you geniuses would open up your eyes and ears, you'd recall that you kept blasting Kaz, and all of PD whenever they delayed it. Yet, now you're saying they rushed it.

Proof? Who is to say that the same people who thing that GT5 was rushed are the same ones who wanted it ASAP? Going beyond that though, GT wasn't rushed, it was poorly managed. PD had enough time to make two games (and well, they did), and make them right. Instead, they messed up.

What you need to realize is that PD is a place where perfection just isn't quite good enough. So when you rush them, they can't work the way they need to. They wanted it to be perfect, you wanted it to come out sooner.

This nonsense needs to be banned from the internet. PD is a business. They can spout marketing lines about perfection all they want, but they're going to have to release their products on schedule, on budget, and as promised if they want to survive. They had five years to come up with their development cycle and product. It seems like they waste a lot of that time. They certainly weren't going for perfection with the end result as it was.

Sure PD makes some really dumb decisions, but there's no other game like it, and sometimes you just have to respect their individuality.

Individuality is secondary to quality. It means nothing if the product is no good.

 

[1241Penguin]

Why do you all blame PD? If you geniuses would open up your eyes and ears, you'd recall that you kept blasting Kaz, and all of PD whenever they delayed it. Yet, now you're saying they rushed it.

...

Sure PD makes some really dumb decisions, but there's no other game like it, and sometimes you just have to respect their individuality.

Surely it takes just as much time to make dumb decisions as it does good decisions.

 

[KinLM]

Oh my, so GT5 isn't perfect. That's not what this thread is about, so stop arguing about it. If it was perfect then you wouldn't need to buy GT6, end of story.

None of you understand how much time they put into it I guess. They made 2 other games in that 5 year span, and they obviously were at a point where they could release it because they did, although as mentioned above, KY does say that they would like to keep working on it to make it better. They don't have an army of people, only 1/3 as many as Turn 10.

 

[TURNIP]

Why do you all blame PD? If you geniuses would open up your eyes and ears, you'd recall that you kept blasting Kaz, and all of PD whenever they delayed it. Yet, now you're saying they rushed it.

fanboy alert.