GT7 Daily Race Discussion

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Appreciate this Tidge - it's nice to have proper evidence for this and have a proper voice speaking up against it. Hopefully they listen and address it, they certainly wouldn't if it was just us plebs!
I'd imagine it's by design.

It's a deliberate choice because QA would have picked up on it.

My guess is for the less than 3% it doesn't make difference.
 
I'd imagine it's by design.

It's a deliberate choice because QA would have picked up on it.

My guess is for the less than 3% it doesn't make difference.
Doesn't really matter if it's by design or not to be fair, if it is then having big voices going "hey this is stupid please sort it out" will do the same job.
Worked for the asinine rolling start gaps we had for Sport Mode in the start of the games life, they were rightfully called out, and now they're much closer.
 
Doesn't really matter if it's by design or not to be fair, if it is then having big voices going "hey this is stupid please sort it out" will do the same job.
Worked for the asinine rolling start gaps we had for Sport Mode in the start of the games life, they were rightfully called out, and now they're much closer.
To be clear, I don't like this mechanic of variable sessions.

But and just hear me out here, variability in daily race qualifying for most people is not based on the marginal track conditions. Yes further up it effects mine and yours goals.

But for everyone else who are chasing seconds I really don't think it matters that much.

To the rolling starts thing, improving them is not fixing the underlying dynamic. The ACC rolling starts are where as a minimum consoles should aim. So closing the starting distance is not solving the inherent problem.

I'm torn because 3110 hours of playing this game and every single one before it, I just feel like daily races should have moved on by now. Not just variety but maybe even linking them to virtual championships or something, or add some for of progression so you'd start at A over and over.

Edit: why not make us all do one A to unlock B and C?

Rationale? That new comers get to see how more experienced people play, old timers put their money where there mouth is and unlock B and C radical idea, qualifying to participate in each weeks races ;)
 
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To be clear, I don't like this mechanic of variable sessions.

But and just hear me out here, variability in daily race qualifying for most people is not based on the marginal track conditions. Yes further up it effects mine and yours goals.

But for everyone else who are chasing seconds I really don't think it matters that much.

To the rolling starts thing, improving them is not fixing the underlying dynamic. The ACC rolling starts are where as a minimum consoles should aim. So closing the starting distance is not solving the inherent problem.

I'm torn because 3110 hours of playing this game and every single one before it, I just feel like daily races should have moved on by now. Not just variety but maybe even linking them to virtual championships or something, or add some for of progression so you'd start at A over and over.
I know what you're saying but I think you're looking at it through a lens that compares it to other games VS. one akin to what PD is looking at it through. Does ACC have better rolling starts than GT? Yes, it does - but that's not what people were asking for as it isn't in line with the expectations of what PD want to do with GT. The rolling starts were far apart, people wanted it to be closer as it improves the racing, and PD moved them closer. That's in line with how they look at and how they treat GT.

PD are always striving for competitive integrity and consistency throughout everything they do. That has always been obvious, even back in GT4 they were implementing methods to try and stop people from cheating on their memory cards, and GT5 and GT6's online exploits were what saw the downfall of car trading and the implementation of the online only DRM. In that sense, equalising TT conditions is in line with that, as without it - the playing field is unfair, and PD don't tend to lean in that direction. We never saw weather in Daily Races for about a year, and it's theorised that's because the weather was inconsistent between qualifying sessions - something that only recently seems to have been addressed.

I also know what you mean with it only being the top players that this impacts but for the longest time PD have made it very clear they only care about the top players in a competitive sense - for the longest time there was absolutely nothing on the table for you if you partook in competitive events unless you were the top 0.01% that could make it to GTWS, and that's only been changed now because there's credits involved. Even then, it scales, and higher rated drivers earn more credits per season. If anything, it impacting the top 1% of drivers would be why they make the change.
 
I know what you're saying but I think you're looking at it through a lens that compares it to other games VS. one akin to what PD is looking at it through. Does ACC have better rolling starts than GT? Yes, it does - but that's not what people were asking for as it isn't in line with the expectations of what PD want to do with GT. The rolling starts were far apart, people wanted it to be closer as it improves the racing, and PD moved them closer. That's in line with how they look at and how they treat GT.

PD are always striving for competitive integrity and consistency throughout everything they do. That has always been obvious, even back in GT4 they were implementing methods to try and stop people from cheating on their memory cards, and GT5 and GT6's online exploits were what saw the downfall of car trading and the implementation of the online only DRM. In that sense, equalising TT conditions is in line with that, as without it - the playing field is unfair, and PD don't tend to lean in that direction. We never saw weather in Daily Races for about a year, and it's theorised that's because the weather was inconsistent between qualifying sessions - something that only recently seems to have been addressed.

I also know what you mean with it only being the top players that this impacts but for the longest time PD have made it very clear they only care about the top players in a competitive sense - for the longest time there was absolutely nothing on the table for you if you partook in competitive events unless you were the top 0.01% that could make it to GTWS, and that's only been changed now because there's credits involved. Even then, it scales, and higher rated drivers earn more credits per season. If anything, it impacting the top 1% of drivers would be why they make the change.
No rebuttal at all, I agree with most of the points, and Those I don't agree are not hills I want to die on!.

For daily races what would you imagine as the best way to do them?

Just as a fair primer as I'm not leading you down a valley

a. Mixed qualifying
b. Reversed gruds
c. Cummulative points totals
d. Better start differentials (I have loads of views on this one!!!)
e. You have to progress each week to unlock B/C
f. The start of the week should be a season you work to to get to B/C (just finish an a race )
 
No rebuttal at all, I agree with most of the points, and Those I don't agree are not hills I want to die on!.

For daily races what would you imagine as the best way to do them?

Just as a fair primer as I'm not leading you down a valley

a. Mixed qualifying
b. Reversed gruds
c. Cummulative points totals
d. Better start differentials (I have loads of views on this one!!!)
e. You have to progress each week to unlock B/C
f. The start of the week should be a season you work to to get to B/C (just finish an a race )
What do you mean by B/C?

For dailies I just think qualifying should be an attached quali rather than having the grid dictated by infinite practice laps. I think the way iRacing in that regard is perfect, where you're on a track on your own and everyone qualifies at the same time.
There is the argument of the races not fitting in the time slots if quali is included.. but in response I simply say that most of the time there's a 10 minute gap in between races anyway so you can easily fit a quali lap or two in there :P

There's honestly infinite ideas as to how they could improve the daily format, but I know they'd never do any of them. It's been a long time since the current GT7 daily race format debuted, and there's been practically no change to it since the start of GT Sport.
And if you fancy casting your eyes back a little further...

1695497516942.png

The GT4 Online beta isn't much different, specific races that run for a certain time period before rotating out (peep the N class system that didn't appear again until GT Sport!).
That said, variety back then was much more plentiful.. so I'd certainly change that nowadays.

Ideally, I'd rotate Race A and B, so Race A is an unranked, chill Gr. race - it's always popular when they do that because it gives people somewhere to wind down between or after races.
B and C will then rotate between Gr. and Road Cars (including tuning!!) - one week you'll have Gr. cars in B, the next C, and the other one will make proper use of the huge road car and tuning potential that the game has.

That's at least my ideas without changing much of the core '3 race per week' format that they are set on. You could do much much more branching out from it, but it's unlikely they ever will.
 
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For daily races what would you imagine as the best way to do them?
I've been thinking about this recently based on some Roflwaffle16 YouTube videos he's been doing on the history of GT. I was thinking that if PD really wanted to progress and push what GT could do for th online community then the following might be be innovative.

Daily Races

Two races should exist that truly rotate every day.

Race 1 - Arcade - Non DR/SR race - No QT, randomized grid placement to shake things up. Go for it have fun. Place to take out your bump and crash crowd. Could be typically a predefined car, similar to current daily race A.

Race 2 - Competition - DR/SR race - It could be any type of car and track combination. The point being you've no idea what it is until that day when it is launched. The race could alternative between rolling start and grid start. The key thing with this one is that QT happens for best QT over 5 minutes before the race. If no QT then ranked at the back in reverse order of DR. These races the lobby is determined based on QT and not DR and is determined after the QT session.

Weekly Races

Not too dissimilar to today except every race is DR/SR ranked.

Race A - QT can be done ahead of race, applicable for the week, but at grid determination time, the placement is based on the car used for QT. No using a faster car for QT then swapping out for a different car for race. This will be a shorter race that is 12-15 minutes, so rotates every 20 minutes. This would also be the race with the wackier combinations. Varies between rolling and grid start.

Race B - Sprint Race - QT can be done ahead of time, applicable for the week, and like A will be specific to the car for grid determination. Race should be around 20-25 minutes and rotate every 1/2 hour. Typically Gr.4 and Gr.3 but could be a specified car or group of cars like classics, 70s cars, super formula etc.

Race C - Strategy Race - QT is like the daily competition race in that there is a session before the race to determine grid. This time, lobby is determined as now on DR but final grid is a real time QT over 5 minutes using the car entered for the race. Race should be around 25-30 minutes and rotate every 40 minutes. Typically Gr.4 and Gr.3 but could be a specified car or group of cars like classics, 70s cars etc and tire/fuel/pit strategy.

Race D - Endurance - QT is like the daily competition race in that there is a session before the race to determine grid. This time, lobby is determined as now on DR but final grid is a real time QT over 10 minutes. Grid start with tire/fuel wear and strategy. Race should be around 1 hour. Could be a variety of cars, sports, classics to super formula. Races rotate every 1-1/2 hour. This would be the race for those folks that like the GTWS type of races but can't commit to the time frame when they are on.

Of course, none of this will happened so it's all just dreams..

EDIT: For DR the points gain should be multiplied by race length so there is no downside to having slower DR gain by taking races that are longer and rotate less often. What I mean by this is that the total potential loss to DR (for first DNF or last place) should be about the same for each race so that one is not scared to take part in longer races that may have more dire consequences if they were to come last, but the longer races should reward more for higher positions. So if you came last for race A, your DR lost should be about the same as if you came last for race D. However if you won race D then the potential DR gain should be about 4-5 times that of Race A (as you can do 4 more race A in the same time as race D). This might then prevent the longer races from being under populated by races as they are focusing on the shorter races.
 
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How exactly does the consensus for “best car” for a race coalesce so quickly to just 1 or two cars? What I mean is, how is it that like 1 hour after the new race is unveiled that like 90% of the top drivers are all using the same car?

I understand that people already know which gr3 and gr4 cars work at a particular track, but surely there are enough variables to a particular race that the same car is not ALWAYS the best car at a certain track, right? Every once in a while I will see some random car like the Peugeot being used by 95% of players and then I won’t see that car again for like 4 months.
 
For those interested... When I did beat the META a few weeks ago with the Watkins Daily I noticed this problem amplified... I noticed it again with the Sardegna C in reverse layout so I've made a video about how the different sessions can impact the qualificatioin times.


This was apparent a couple of months ago, when we had a daily race at SSRX.
I brought it up in this forum, and while there didn't seem to be any disagreement that it was happening, there was disagreement about the cause. Some folks think it's because of weather conditions. I believe that the game was not giving me identical cars for each session.

Human elements are eliminated in the first two sectors at that track. It's just straight line driving. Before I even got to the starting line, I could make the decision to proceed or kill the session, based on where I was when the car shifted to 4th gear (A/T). Wind speed and direction were static for each session.

Also, and I don't know if it's because the cars we used there were rented, oil degradation came into play. Somewhere in the range of 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 laps into the session, you just started slowing down for no apparent reason. Your ghost would just start pulling away from you, while going full-throttle down a 6 mile straightaway.

At the beginning of November, there's a Nations race at SSRX. Do your analysis there, if you want undeniable proof.

I'm not a great driver, but at the Daytona Tri-oval daily race, I finished the week at #2 in the world, and at SSRX, I was #1.
I'm not that lucky. :lol: I just saw what was happening. You can bet your ass that people like Jeddah Racing are aware of it too. :D
 
How exactly does the consensus for “best car” for a race coalesce so quickly to just 1 or two cars? What I mean is, how is it that like 1 hour after the new race is unveiled that like 90% of the top drivers are all using the same car?

I understand that people already know which gr3 and gr4 cars work at a particular track, but surely there are enough variables to a particular race that the same car is not ALWAYS the best car at a certain track, right? Every once in a while I will see some random car like the Peugeot being used by 95% of players and then I won’t see that car again for like 4 months.
That's a good question. I'm thinking lot of them already have ideas as to what cars will probably do well on a particular track, so they start with that. Then someone experiments with another car and suddenly there's a new one on the leaderboard, so other people try it. And so on.

I usually look at the leaderboards to see if any of my favorite cars are there, and if so, I'll try them first. If I see a car I always wanted to try, I'll certainly try that - that's how I ended up driving the Citroen awhile back.

But I'm always switching off trying something else, on the off chance it will "click" with me. Eventually I set a time I can't approach with any of the other cars, then I pretty-much stick with it. When things are going bad I'll switch out, but I almost always come back.

When I do races and see people finishing in front of me all the time with a specific car, I'll try that too. I don't mind being a Lemming if it means better races, although there's a particular kind of joy in using a non-standard car and doing well with it.
 
How exactly does the consensus for “best car” for a race coalesce so quickly to just 1 or two cars? What I mean is, how is it that like 1 hour after the new race is unveiled that like 90% of the top drivers are all using the same car?

I understand that people already know which gr3 and gr4 cars work at a particular track, but surely there are enough variables to a particular race that the same car is not ALWAYS the best car at a certain track, right? Every once in a while I will see some random car like the Peugeot being used by 95% of players and then I won’t see that car again for like 4 months.
Genuinely I think meta cars are a sliding scale.

The top guys usually have a good idea of the best few cars, hone in on one and then to compete at the A/A+ end of things you need to keep mostly to what everyone else is using.

As you go down the speed/ability/consistency levels and in to much more "dynamic" racing environments where the drivers start to become the loose units more than the cars a lot of cars become more viable.

But conversely to the meta cars are the down right rubbish ones as well which unless everyone parts like the Red Sea they just aren't competitive.

It's the middle range cars that realistically should do on balance do reasonable for normal drivers like us in mixed lobbies.
 
That was the race I was gonna upload. I was in the other 650 (Doritos livery)

Really tight racing until you drove off in to the the sunset and promptly missed my breaking marker by about 1 gazillion feet!

Edit: Which is the avoiding swerve in the banked corner where I missed my brake marker and tried to go through the gap for the gravel but didn't quite make it and hit the Porsche so slowed up to let everyone pass
Was nice to have someone clean next to me for a bit, cheers mate!
 
Race C this afternoon for me…. But it’s absolute carnage! I think I’ve been punted out of 5 races on the trot now and have had to recover each time. I keep saying to myself that the next race will be better… except it isn’t 😬. Will give it one last try and then I’m done
 
Well, fellow race A people, what did you think of the week we just had with the Lamborghini Diablo GT at Monza? With SR on.

I did 44 races (of which 40 I kept clean race bonus), and my experience was that SR on had a positive effect. To me it was clear that people were more mindful of how they were driving, keeping things respectful. Not a single time was I intentionally punted off the track, which is something that you unfortunately tend to see a bit more frequently when SR is off. Last week at Alsace with the Alpine A110 that happened north of 10 times (granted I did 98 races that week and 44 this one, but still). I met at least two individuals there that week who entered the race with the sole purpose of taking out me and the rest of the field, entering turn 1 in wrecking ball fashion. That didn’t happen this week at Monza with SR on.

The crashes I did see this week were just the result of it being a difficult combination for many, unable to anticipate how early they had to lift and brake. Intentional crashes were at a minimum. I’d say this was a successful experiment and I hope to see Polyphony continue with DR off/SR on for race A.
 
Well, fellow race A people, what did you think of the week we just had with the Lamborghini Diablo GT at Monza? With SR on.

I did 44 races (of which 40 I kept clean race bonus), and my experience was that SR on had a positive effect. To me it was clear that people were more mindful of how they were driving, keeping things respectful.

Would you say that it improved through the week as people realize that their SR took a dive and they realized it was on?

I only did two races on Monday and I tried to be clean but it was carnage and my SR dropped to A so I bailed on doing more races.

But that could have been a Monday thing where everyone was still raw and new to that combo…
 
Would you say that it improved through the week as people realize that their SR took a dive and they realized it was on?

I only did two races on Monday and I tried to be clean but it was carnage and my SR dropped to A so I bailed on doing more races.

But that could have been a Monday thing where everyone was still raw and new to that combo…
Can’t say I took note of any significant pattern like the one you mention, I think most people knew beforehand that the settings were different. Some probably didn’t, sure, but again, in minority most likely.
 
Starting at the front rows for Race A, you get punted in the first chicane quite often but as long as you brake as you should to take the corner you hardly ever get a penalty.
After that I really enjoy these races with the Lambo.

Once you get going people are driving more cleanly than in Race B, I've only done that one a couple of times, wasn't fun for me.
 
Well, fellow race A people, what did you think of the week we just had with the Lamborghini Diablo GT at Monza? With SR on.

I did 44 races (of which 40 I kept clean race bonus), and my experience was that SR on had a positive effect. To me it was clear that people were more mindful of how they were driving, keeping things respectful. Not a single time was I intentionally punted off the track, which is something that you unfortunately tend to see a bit more frequently when SR is off. Last week at Alsace with the Alpine A110 that happened north of 10 times (granted I did 98 races that week and 44 this one, but still). I met at least two individuals there that week who entered the race with the sole purpose of taking out me and the rest of the field, entering turn 1 in wrecking ball fashion. That didn’t happen this week at Monza with SR on.

The crashes I did see this week were just the result of it being a difficult combination for many, unable to anticipate how early they had to lift and brake. Intentional crashes were at a minimum. I’d say this was a successful experiment and I hope to see Polyphony continue with DR off/SR on for race A.

Yeah, it was fine.

I still feel like I was the only one bringing any collateral to the negotiating table, though. It's somewhat discouraging to enjoy a skilled and tense race only to remember you aren't 'gaining' anything from it.
 
Is it fair to say everyone would agree that last week’s race A was much better for keeping SR on? If so, it’s classic PD for them to back away from a clear improvement. Reminds me of when PD walked back the amazing 12 lap (I think) Le Mans daily some time ago.
Oddly enough, I have to disagree. Last week was the worst for me in terms of SR gains and losses.
The Lambo race made my SR drop from S to B, and for really stupid things, such as simply touching cars side to side. Most of the time, I was the victim. Never happened before in Daily B, where I usually race. Between Lambo races I saw my SR going back up to A a couple of times but....nope....a couple of small touches repeating the race put me back in B. I can't explain this, I know how I behave and I know the reason of the fluctuations of my SR.
Yesterday, to my surprise, when I knew I made a good clean race, I did not get the CRB. Which I usually get, again, in Daily B driving the same exact way.

It can't be because of people dive-bombing in T1 (lap 1 only) and putting ME out of the track and making me reset my car on track. Right PD?

For the record, last week I only drove a maximum of 3 times in Daily B and I almost had no contact with other cars, and no penalties for cutting/crashing. So it was all due to Daily A.
 
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Today I got online early to run some qualification laps for the daily races - I should have stayed in bed!

Race A is a joke. 10 seconds of top times and felt more like drifting than racing. CS tires? Really?

Race B is not much better but going to play with car selection. This should get me closer than 5 seconds off top 10.

Race C qualification was aggravating. First run went out with RM tires only to encounter rain half way down the track. Ok put on IM tires and encountered NO BLEEPING RAIN! Third run started on RM tires again and ran a few laps but still could not break the 15 second time. Sad to say that this was by far some of the best GR2 driving I have ever done. What is up with variable weather? Every time I restarted the weather was different.

I guess Monday morning qualifying is just not for me. Let us see what Wednesday will bring.
 
Welcome to the party! We discovered that some time back on this thread, or perhaps it was the Time Trial thread that some sessions can have you lapping significantly off the pace from others. If a session is not working for you, you can try reset but really to affect the session, you need to completely exit out and restart your QT, not just reset. You will then often find the next session runs better. If not, try again and eventually the track conditions will be preferable.
Ahh apologies I missed the discussion. As I say in the video I first noticed it in the Watkins race. I mean I've known about the wind issue but Watkins and the Porsche event didn't have differing wind so it was very frustrating. I was waiting to get a second event where it was significant to understand it more and these 2 together had the perfect evidence for it.
This was called out a while ago with the trial mountain QT for the daily.

If you wait until it gets dark and the track starts to cool you go significantly faster.

Edit: this was in March
I knew about the getting Dark thing. Interestingly, I brought it up at the time with the Watkins one with PD. I kept the game on time trial for a huge number of hours (Not 24 but was over 15 can't remember exactly). The time of day didn't change, I probably should have mentioned that in the video. So in that situation I wouldn't want to see different sessions which are quicker or slower? I do agree though that even with the time of day change ones it should all be static.
Appreciate this Tidge - it's nice to have proper evidence for this and have a proper voice speaking up against it. Hopefully they listen and address it, they certainly wouldn't if it was just us plebs!
I'm a pleb to, I just try and put the evidence out there when/where I have it and have a discussion about it. For me personally as I say in the video I don't feel it's fair that without actually any information you could waste 1 hour doing a timetrial session. If lets say we had temperature or alot more information and we knew what was faster and could deal with it better then great. But it's pure guesswork at the moment.
I'd imagine it's by design.

It's a deliberate choice because QA would have picked up on it.

My guess is for the less than 3% it doesn't make difference.
I do disagree. There's lots of stuff that a seperate group (That I'm in) feedback to. Somethings get implemented, somethings get commented on and such. Like the leaderboard issue on GTWS with Gr.3/Gr.4 that's getting fixed the next time there's a difference between the leagues (That should have been brought up by QA). I'd imagine something like this wasn't necessarily deliberate and just an extension to the new feature of the game. There's been lots of tweaks and feedback regarding wind for example and that has been improved no end such as the Bugatti special event where in some situations it was impossible to do because of the wind. Something like that should have been picked up very early on.
This was apparent a couple of months ago, when we had a daily race at SSRX.
I brought it up in this forum, and while there didn't seem to be any disagreement that it was happening, there was disagreement about the cause. Some folks think it's because of weather conditions. I believe that the game was not giving me identical cars for each session.

Human elements are eliminated in the first two sectors at that track. It's just straight line driving. Before I even got to the starting line, I could make the decision to proceed or kill the session, based on where I was when the car shifted to 4th gear (A/T). Wind speed and direction were static for each session.

Also, and I don't know if it's because the cars we used there were rented, oil degradation came into play. Somewhere in the range of 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 laps into the session, you just started slowing down for no apparent reason. Your ghost would just start pulling away from you, while going full-throttle down a 6 mile straightaway.

At the beginning of November, there's a Nations race at SSRX. Do your analysis there, if you want undeniable proof.

I'm not a great driver, but at the Daytona Tri-oval daily race, I finished the week at #2 in the world, and at SSRX, I was #1.
I'm not that lucky. :lol: I just saw what was happening. You can bet your ass that people like Jeddah Racing are aware of it too. :D
Interesting. I've always wondered with oil which is why I always use the rented car for Beat the META for example. I know some people like the oil change but again for me personally it's a feature that doesn't actually bring anything to the table for me personally as all it is, is pay x amount of credits (Think its 400) and it's fixed. Requires no skill or anything, for me it's a nice to have extra function to maintain a car but for an online environment I feel it's unnecessary. Again I know people like the oil change that's just my personal opinion.

In the end I'm very much a fan of if it's a qualifying session then give everybody equal conditions. You wouldn't see Formula 1 or any race series I'm aware of set 1 team off on 1 day and then another on the next day when it's raining then another when it's 5c etc. There would be quite an arguement as to who goes when, likewise online I'd expect the same situation. Whether it's before the race or in the race itself. It's why argueably the GTWS practice session doesn't matter as much because the qualifying happens in the actual race and everyone is in those same conditions therefore it's equal (Whether it's hotter/colder/wetter in another session it doesn't matter). But for daily racing, that practice session does matter and it's quite critical due to how short the races actually are.

Edit: Apologies if I missed anyone in the quotes as I tried to answer everyone where appropriate!
 
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Kinda bummed to see Maggi' go...great week of racing. Was able to land some podiums and DFL's so I feel the week was quite well-rounded.😁

So, this weeks races will be my first foray into "don't care what everyone else is in, I'm drivin' the 911" territory. Going to flex this theory around sticking it out with one car regardless of venue so I get to know ONE car inside-out and backwards. I chose the 911 because you seem to be able to make it work everywhere, even though I doubt it's the meta anywhere. I'll see if I progress, regress or maintain through the end of the year and make a determination on next moves then.

For now, I'm just hoping to get to play in the rain for a bit. :cheers:

EDIT: For Gr. 3 it's the 911, Gr. 4 will likely be the Jag, Gr. 2 I'm clueless...Gr. 1 scares me, lol
 
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