GT7 in 4K?

  • Thread starter yanfloist
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4k with current games seems improbable.

I believe in something like 40% power increase to be able to achieve 60FPS in game that would be 30FPS. That would be interesting as the current argument to go with PC version of a multi-plat is mostly higher framer rate.

Obviously not those games that dips below 30 but I imagine there are cases when the game is in 40-45 range and has to be locked to 30. With 40-50% extra power the same game could be locked to 60.
 
As someone who has played PC games in 4k, I would love if GT7 had a 4k mode. Problem is, the current PS4 simply can't output 4k resolution through the HDMI. I thought it was a software issue but I think Sony would've patched it in by now if it was possible.

Playing games in 4k is incredibly striking. Things are incredibly crisp and detailed but to me the coolest part is that anti aliasing is no longer necessary. Even without AA at all, there's almost a complete lack of shimmering or jagged edges. You really, and I mean really have to look for it to see it. Even when you're not in motion, it's very hard to spot.

I personally love graphics to be clear and sharp above almost all else. I honestly hate it when graphics aren't as clear as they could be. Film grain drives me insane but even worse is poor image quality. This generation is a huge leap over last generation when it comes to image quality, but some games are better than others depending on their AA solution. But if 4k ever because standard for video games as 1080p has, pretty much every game is gonna have great image quality, and I will be a happy man.


PS4 can't handle it , plus as @GTPorsche said , i doubt they would waste time on that , they should just focus on refining and updating tracks and cars for now.

Not necessarily true. I've ran Grid 2 in 4k at 30 fps on a PC that's much weaker than PS4 and was even able to put it on the high graphics settings preset and the quality of the graphics is incredible in Codemasters PC games. Same story with Dirt 3, F1 2013 and on medium with Dirt Rally and Grid Autosport.

Codemasters are beasts when it comes to optimizing PC ports but it's still a PC port. Much easier to optimize a console game so if they could do 4k 30 fps, GORGEOUS graphics on weaker hardware, I'm sure PD could do it on PS4.

Your not supposed to sit that close to a 60" television. :lol:

4K right now, and even in the next few years, is mainly a novelty for those that can afford it. I don't see there being many blockbuster great games, that are exclusively only 4K and for PS4.5. It's just such a small percentage of the market. Same goes if xb1 comes with a 4K console.

Same kind of goes for VR, although I think there will be a lot more people using that then buying expensive 4K televisions. I see both of these as novelties. I'm sure they both will be great, and are really cool. There just not enough people going to drop that kind of money, where it's going to affect the market and the way games are made. 👍


You're also not supposed to sit 10 feet from it either. A 60 inch TV screen has a height of 29.4 inches. The optimum viewing distance of any 16:9 screen is 3 times the height. Doing the math in my head, I get 88.2 inches which is 7ft 4.2 inches. 4 feet is a little close but it makes much more sense to me to sit close than to sit too far like most people do.

You lose so much when you sit too far especially when it comes to details, and moving forward, the improvements in graphics are going to be all about the details since we're starting to hit a wall when it comes to graphics. Even last gen was starting to get graphics that looked very realistic, and the closer we get to photorealism, the smaller and more subtle the improvements to graphics will get.

4k as well. You won't see the big improvment 4k is over 1080p if you sit too far, so while you laugh at him for sitting too close, I think he's still got it right compared to the people who sit too far (most people who do gaming from a couch). That's why we often see ignorant comments about resolution in games like people claiming there's not a huge difference between 720p and 1080p while the facts prove them wrong.
 
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I wonder if this PS4.5 makes less noise than the current PS4. My PS4 sounds like a jet taking off whenever I drive in the wet in PCars & F1 2015. I know some people might argue that driving open-wheel cars with a jet engine sound in the background is cool and all but I'd rather have a console that works nice and silently.
 
Adding to the development time and complexity.


I'm quite sure I'm not alone in reading your posts as no where near so moderate on the subject, you have been practically saying its just over the hill from the time the PS4 launched.


You are aware that the only way anyone has been able to get 4K@60hz via HDMI 1.4 is by Chroma downsampling? I assume so given that you posted as much, after all "YUV420" refers to Chroma subsampling (which in the case of 4.2.0 is downsampled as true UHD would be 4.4.4 which is not Chroma subsampled).
Don't think it will take a great deal of effort if hardware is fast enough. Games like pCARS already supports VR and high resolutions like 12K on PC. Probably be motivational for developers too.

PS4 might be over the hill when it's done, that is if it's ever done. ;)

Subsampling, yes. Interestingly HDMI 2.0 can only manage UHD 60Hz 10bit 4:2:0, is that not true UHD?
120Hz/FPS is not feasible for two reasons:

1. 1080p/60FPS is already a stretch, doing double that amount is just not doable in terms of performance. Maybe for hotlapping/fixed weather situations only, but why would they make such a split for such a limited scenario?
2. 120 FPS will require a <8ms screen (or you won't even see the extra rendered frames). No TV is capable of that as far as I know, only PC monitors.

Then again, PD did make that completely worthless GPS thing, so I'm certainly not putting anything past them.
PS VR supports 120Hz. ;)
I'll go out on a limb and guess that @Saidur_Ali still won't be convinced:lol:
"However, realistically, achieving even a 2x increase in GPU power compared to the current PS4 would be a remarkable achievement. To fit into a console-sized box, even this may be too optimistic."

I'm struggling to think how that would be a remarkable achievement given Polaris should be 2.5x performance per watt. iPhone 5S (28nm) to iPhone SE (14nm) Apple managed to achieve 3x more GPU and 2x CPU performance in same form factor.

Do think following also:
PS5 I think is very likely. Cost of high performance hardware to do 4K or VR really well from off-the-shelf hardware looks likely to come down really quickly so $399-$499 price point should make for something really capable by say 2019-2020.
FS7
I wonder if this PS4.5 makes less noise than the current PS4. My PS4 sounds like a jet taking off whenever I drive in the wet in PCars & F1 2015. I know some people might argue that driving open-wheel cars with a jet engine sound in the background is cool and all but I'd rather have a console that works nice and silently.
Polaris seems to cool well going by this tweet:

If used, should be quieter playing at same resolution I would think. I wonder how they will equalise performance at lower resolutions though if they do release upgraded PS4. I'm assuming Microsoft will also release similar kind of hardware so it will be interesting to see who manages it the best. Round 2... Fight!
 
Don't think it will take a great deal of effort if hardware is fast enough. Games like pCARS already supports VR and high resolutions like 12K on PC. Probably be motivational for developers too.
With hardware that is well above what is in the PS4 or even for the PS4.5.

PS4 might be over the hill when it's done, that is if it's ever done. ;)
Well you missed the point I made totally!

Subsampling, yes. Interestingly HDMI 2.0 can only manage UHD 60Hz 10bit 4:2:0, is that not true UHD?
No HDMI 2.0 can handle 4:4:4 if required, what it can also do is push 4:2:0 in its native form (which HDMI 1.4 can't) which results in a lower compression loss from 4:2:0 and allows HDMI 2.0 to have enough bandwidth to manage 8K with 4:2:0.

In the same way that HDMI 1.4 can push 4:4:4 with 1080P, but needs to drop to 4:2:0 (and still then needs a workaround to do it as its not designed to do so natively) to manage 4K; HDMI 2.0 can push 4:4:4 with 4K, but needs to drop to 4:2:0 to manage 8K.

http://hdguru.com/hdmi-2-0-what-you-need-to-know/
 
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With hardware that is well above what is in the PS4 or even for the PS4.5.


Well you missed the point I made totally!


No HDMI 2.0 can handle 4:4:4 if required, what it can also do is push 4:2:0 in its native form (which HDMI 1.4 can't) which results in a lower compression loss from 4:2:0 and allows HDMI 2.0 to have enough bandwidth to manage 8K with 4:2:0.

In the same way that HDMI 1.4 can push 4:4:4 with 1080P, but needs to drop to 4:2:0 (and still then needs a workaround to do it as its not designed to do so natively) to manage 4K; HDMI 2.0 can push 4:4:4 with 4K, but needs to drop to 4:2:0 to manage 8K.

http://hdguru.com/hdmi-2-0-what-you-need-to-know/
Think they will support PS VR with original PS4 also.

That's my point.

Not at 10bit UHD 60Hz like I mentioned. If HDMI 1.4 pushes 4:2:0, it would be in native form me thinks. Don't know how else it would work.
 
Think they will support PS VR with original PS4 also.
Using an additional piece of kit to provide the additional processing power required. Its not tlike the headset just plugs into the PS4 and that's it.

That's my point.
And now your not making a bit of sense.

Not at 10bit UHD 60Hz like I mentioned.
Oh dear. You can't hit 60hz at 10bit for film streams as the HCDP 2.2 copy protection eats into the bandwidth (and given that you don't need 60hz for film that's not an issue), however without it sets have run 60hz at 10bit with 4:4:4 (as such the PS4 would have no issue as you can switch of HDCP for games).

If HDMI 1.4 pushes 4:2:0, it would be in native form me thinks. Don't know how else it would work.
HDMI 1.4 does not support 4:2:0 end of (the link I provided clearly states that), it works because a software 'fix' codes the subsampled 4:2:0 stream in a manner than convinces the 1.4 chip that its a 4:4:4 stream. Its not its a 4:2:0 stream hidden in a different wrapper.
 
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Using an additional piece of kit to provide the additional processing power required. Its not tlike the headset just plugs into the PS4 and that's it.


And now your not making a bit of sense.


Oh dear. You can't hit 60hz at 10bit for film streams as the HCDP 2.2 copy protection eats into the bandwidth (and given that you don't need 60hz for film that's not an issue), however without it sets have run 60hz at 10bit with 4:4:4 (as such the PS4 would have no issue as you can switch of HDCP for games).


HDMI 1.4 does not support 4:2:0 end of (the link I provided clearly states that), it works because a software 'fix' codes the subsampled 4:2:0 stream in a manner than convinces the 1.4 chip that its a 4:4:4 stream. Its not its a 4:2:0 stream hidden in a different wrapper.
Developers can't access the VR processing unit directly in any way: Link

My point is IIRC I never said it's guaranteed to happen.

It's good if that is the case. Do you have examples of that? Could only find 8bit 4:4:4 UHD 60Hz.

Do you have proof of that? As I understand it is 4:2:0.
 
So we won't get 4k games because they couldn't look like 1080p games in terms of per-pixel detail?
Doesn't seem likely to me at all. We will get 4k games, no matter what they look like.

That 4k stuff that's been in the OS since launch had a purpose after all, despite all the naysayers. There's no need for a change in hardware, except on the output and media side, so that's all we'll get; possibly along with a manufacturing process change and die shrink for better efficiency and clock stability in terms of thermal load.


Time to see developers push the envelope, not of visual detail for its own sake, but of what interaction actually means.
 
HDR Rendering Engine (GT6)
In order to more accurately express the wide dynamic range of real life scenery, the HDR dynamic range in Gran Turismo 6 has been made 50 times greater than that in GT5. This prevents over flaring of highlights and black outs in shadows caused by extreme differences in brightness. It also allows natural blurring effects, better motion blurring which increases dynamic motion effects, and makes the sparkle of lighting more realistic, immersing the player in a truly absorbing atmosphere.



If already they were taking this direction with a new rendering engine and HDR with the PS3.
Is it likely that it will continue to improve with PS4. Yet what if PS4.5 could then take the quality further of the HDR lighting within the game with improved HDR video output / upscaled 4K for the newest UltraHD HDR 4K televisions?

Here is a previous example of the above on PS3



Here is a look at the improvements HDR brings in added details on UHD Blu Ray but also an issue with it.
Interesting Article
 
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Your not supposed to sit that close to a 60" television. :lol:

4K right now, and even in the next few years, is mainly a novelty for those that can afford it. I don't see there being many blockbuster great games, that are exclusively only 4K and for PS4.5. It's just such a small percentage of the market. Same goes if xb1 comes with a 4K console.

Same kind of goes for VR, although I think there will be a lot more people using that then buying expensive 4K televisions. I see both of these as novelties. I'm sure they both will be great, and are really cool. There just not enough people going to drop that kind of money, where it's going to affect the market and the way games are made. 👍

(From what I hear on a couple of Tech Channels) The New PS4K or Neo will have upscaling So all your games will look much better on A PS4 Neo (That is if you have A 4K TV):lol: I wonder would the difference be like Procject CARS Ultra and High Settings?
 
(From what I hear on a couple of Tech Channels) The New PS4K or Neo will have upscaling So all your games will look much better on A PS4 Neo (That is if you have A 4K TV):lol: I wonder would the difference be like Procject CARS Ultra and High Settings?
Don't most 4K tvs already upscale?
 
(From what I hear on a couple of Tech Channels) The New PS4K or Neo will have upscaling So all your games will look much better on A PS4 Neo (That is if you have A 4K TV):lol: I wonder would the difference be like Procject CARS Ultra and High Settings?
That is far from confirmed, nothing official has been informed by Sony. It's been said that upgrading older games will happen only by patching them. And I suppose few developers will reprogram their old games.
But the thread is derailing a bit now because the title says GT7 (old assumption clearly). GT7 could release years from now. Should the title be changed to GT Sport?
 
With Neo it's now certain in my view it will be a 4k title, while obviously at the same time being compatible with base ps4 and 1920x1080p 60fps. But I think in 4k it will be like GT6 on the PS3 with imperfect frame rate fluctuations, so 1080p mode will be the drivers choice on the neo, with some extra AA features.
 
Here is a thought. What if they rerelease a slightly spruced up GT6 as a 4K title on NEO while at the same time releasing GT Sport in the usual 1080 / 60 format?
 
They can also do native 4k in the same whey they did native 1080p in GT5.
1280x1080 is 1080p native (1,382,400 pixels instead of 2,076,600 pixels for 1920x1080)
3840x1440 is 4k native (5,529,600 pixels instead of 8,294,400 pixels for 3840x2160)
This 4k resolution is the same ratio difference as 1280x1080 is to 1920x1080. GT6 went on to do 1440x1080 so perhaps GT7 could also up the ratio again.
 
They can also do native 4k in the same whey they did native 1080p in GT5.
1280x1080 is 1080p native (1,382,400 pixels instead of 2,076,600 pixels for 1920x1080)
3840x1440 is 4k native (5,529,600 pixels instead of 8,294,400 pixels for 3840x2160)
This 4k resolution is the same ratio difference as 1280x1080 is to 1920x1080. GT6 went on to do 1440x1080 so perhaps GT7 could also up the ratio again.

Even 2560 x 2160 anamorphic resolution (more likely than 3840 x 1440) is 2.75 times the pixels compared to 1080p and neo with its supposed polaris gpu cant handle that. 1080p with 4xMSAA and low amounts of post processing AA should yield sharp results and an excellent visual experience.

GT6 always looked more aliased to me because it got the resolution bump by ditching MSAA for Post processing AA, thus introducing ant crawling.

More resources should go into shadow map resolution, foliage detail, track geometry, lighting improvements etc.. 4K should be left alone during this gen. If next gen consoles come with GPUs twice as powerful as the 980ti only then will it be viable to go 4k (hopefully that gen will also introduce widespread use of physically based lighting). 4k looks amazing (Forza Apex) but it comes at a very, very high fps cost. It would be a ver bad design decision to try an go beyond 1080p.
 
Any chance we will see gt7 in 4k? Even if it's just a demo, that would blow my mind! Maybe running on two or three ps4s. If pd does manage to make future gt games in 4k, it's game over!


Short answer: my guess is that the new GT will be able to run @1080p@120hz on the new Ps4 to support the new PlayStation VR (project morpheus).

Long answer: Really doubt that the new PS4.5 (Neo) would be able to handle 4k games (Unless it will more expensive than the current Ps4 because of a high end Gpu)

However, it is expected that this new Ps4 will have Hdmi 2.0 to be able to play 4k blu rays on 4k tvs. But of course for marketing sake, Sony will probably say that the new Ps4 supports 4k.

If this is true then we need to stop and think for a second about the Xperia Z5 premium, the first 4k phone, which can only play movies at 4k but everything else runs at 1080p.
So having this in mind, this would be another marketing bluff but this time for new Ps4
 
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Even 2560 x 2160 anamorphic resolution (more likely than 3840 x 1440) is 2.75 times the pixels compared to 1080p and neo with its supposed polaris gpu cant handle that. 1080p with 4xMSAA and low amounts of post processing AA should yield sharp results and an excellent visual experience.

GT6 always looked more aliased to me because it got the resolution bump by ditching MSAA for Post processing AA, thus introducing ant crawling.

More resources should go into shadow map resolution, foliage detail, track geometry, lighting improvements etc.. 4K should be left alone during this gen. If next gen consoles come with GPUs twice as powerful as the 980ti only then will it be viable to go 4k (hopefully that gen will also introduce widespread use of physically based lighting). 4k looks amazing (Forza Apex) but it comes at a very, very high fps cost. It would be a ver bad design decision to try an go beyond 1080p.
I agree but I think Sony would want them to do a 4k mode to promote the format on the Neo 4k, a locked steady 30fps maybe something to look amazing but not ideal for the driving simulation aspect, so 1920x1080 is where it's at, 120fps for me.
I will be selling my PS4 and getting the Neo in October to go with my PSVR.
 
So @Saidur_Ali and others, how are you now seeing the likelyhood of native 4k on the original PS4? You know, given that "the majority of games on PS4 Pro will be upscaled to 4K, not native" which is significantly more powerful than the original model?

http://www.digitalspy.com/gaming/ps...-pro-games-will-be-upscaled-to-4k-not-native/

I suppose they could have done it on the original but decided not to, right?

I suppose you're also expecting PD to manage native 4K at 60fps on the Pro, aren't you?
 
So @Saidur_Ali and others, how are you now seeing the likelyhood of native 4k on the original PS4? You know, given that "the majority of games on PS4 Pro will be upscaled to 4K, not native" which is significantly more powerful than the original model?

http://www.digitalspy.com/gaming/ps...-pro-games-will-be-upscaled-to-4k-not-native/

I suppose they could have done it on the original but decided not to, right?

I suppose you're also expecting PD to manage native 4K at 60fps on the Pro, aren't you?
I'm not surprised by that, see the PS4 Pro more of a way to deliver a solid 1080p experience which is why I'm getting one. PS5 probably might have enough power to do native 4K somewhat well but I think there will be a lot of games on that running below that resolution, maybe even a lot lower like 1080p. I would prefer it if they stick to lower resolutions personally.

Still think there is a chance there will be native 4K games on the original PS4, at least higher than 1080p if they're going to use some of that upscaling technique. Should be good for the original PS4 owners if they can try out 4K gaming if their TV supports it without having to buy a new upgraded console.

I think PD might go with 4K upscaling, something above 1080p at 60FPS for the Pro. For native 4K at 60FPS, maybe for time trials they could offer that.
 

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