Inside sim racing announces rumor that upgraded premiums will cost money.

  • Thread starter Thread starter Mike712
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considering that Polyphony Digital said it takes about 6 months worth of man-hours to make a single Premium car for GT5, i wouldn't be shocked at all if they charged a small fee.

not only do they have the very obvious need to keep their fanbase happy (else they don't stay in business), but they also need to be able to pay the team that's making the content that's keeping the fanbase happy. 6 months worth of man-hours is a LOT. over 4,000 hours per car.

how many companies do y'all think would actually stay in business if they spent that kind of time making a product then gave the product away for free?

now granted, for upgrades i don't think it'd take that kind of time as the sounds and the physics model are already there, and really all that's left is the rendering and possibly some tweaks to said sounds and physics models... but even then, you're not talking about something that can be done in a day, or even a week i don't suspect. the visual rendering is just too in-depth for a quick bit of coding.
 
I suspect that the "new" Premiums will mostly be variations on existing Premiums (such as the standard Mercedes SLR McLaren, Skylines, Lancers, Imprezas etc). I would not say it was going to be easy to upgrade the new Premiums, but to effectively make a two tier game for those with and without the DLC is going to create potential for problems,
 
That principal makes me lol, you are aware the whole PD team probably are on £1,000,000 salaries(or more).

This has everything to do with greed and nothing to do with making a living.

I don't get how people just roll over to games companies and accept this sort of thing...seriously :P

Roll over ? Econ 101, supply and demand, do you know of these terms ? 60 bucks is the sweet spot for GT5 and PD had to operate within that parameter. Get over it and be thankful technology is as cheap as it is.

Scotty
 
Another thought occurred to me. I have no idea how many of these new Premiums there are likely to be, but if they are released as DLC they really will need to be in one pack (if there are a lot of them this could prove expensive on experience with other games with car downloads). To have cheap DLC packs of Premiums (say 10-12 cars in a pack) would not really be a sensible option. To have various DLC Car packs (if there are more to come later even) this would further complicate the game as it would need to mix and match the Dealers to cater for a number of variations between the "haves" and "have nots"!
 
The prices you are giving only represent your specific location and choice. I would pay £10 for 2 cinema tickets in the UK and would not buy popcorn, or i would take it with me in a bag from the supermarket. A decent meal for 2 you can easily get for under £40, i would say £10 to £12 for 2 if you look around.
But having said that i get your point about the time of enjoyment. But i think the comparison is from your point of view not from the real fairness of the price when you factor in what it costs the maker to produce, even a £100 meal is fairer than a £40 game. That meal was just made for you in the time it took to prepare and cook and serve, the £40 game took just a few seconds of individual disc time. Also if you divide the number of hours over 5 years it took to make GT5 with the amount of money raised from total copies sold the £/hour will be crazily high compared to the £/hour from a £100 meal.
I'm not sure what view I hold, I just wanted to argue a bit. :sly:

I love how people make weird comparisons like how much something is worth by time enjoyed...

I can buy a bag of sunflower seeds for under $1 that keep me happy for HOURS... book? $10 and lasts days... clothing? $20-30 that lasts years (and still at least weeks if you only count actual wear time).

Comparing hours of enjoyment per dollar is silly... even between games it's not an apples to apples comparisoin... Braid vs Final vs Street Fighter vs CoD depending on the kind of game it can be hours, days, months or years even that you get out of them and there is no direct way to relate their $/Hr of fun value.
 
GT5 is so worth the $60. Nordschleife even as a practice track alone has thousands of hours of gameplay enjoyment. I can't believe anyone would say otherwise.

The bad attitudes that say this game isn't worth the price tag are shocking. I can't see a single argument holding up that says this game isn't worth the cost, whether it's from a gamer's viewpoint or from one strictly held by a consumer relating this to any other kind of product.
 
I love how people make weird comparisons like how much something is worth by time enjoyed...

I can buy a bag of sunflower seeds for under $1 that keep me happy for HOURS... book? $10 and lasts days... clothing? $20-30 that lasts years (and still at least weeks if you only count actual wear time).

Comparing hours of enjoyment per dollar is silly... even between games it's not an apples to apples comparisoin... Braid vs Final vs Street Fighter vs CoD depending on the kind of game it can be hours, days, months or years even that you get out of them and there is no direct way to relate their $/Hr of fun value.

Your post, ipso facto supports the $/hr of entertainment valuation system i.e. more money gives more hours of entertainment. On YOUR scale GT5 has very high value.

Scott
 
Well, the $/hr thing sure has some merrit, and even if the game has its flaws, GT5 is still worth every cent of its 60$.

However, the problem with the $/hr calculation is that it lacks a way to calculate how enjoyable that entertainment was. I know I'd rather spend 60$ to take a girl out for dinner and watch a movie afterwards or something then spend them on a game. Any game, for that matter. Four hours with a nice girl > a hundred hours with a good game.

Luckily, I don't have to decide between the two :sly:
 
considering that Polyphony Digital said it takes about 6 months worth of man-hours to make a single Premium car for GT5, i wouldn't be shocked at all if they charged a small fee.

not only do they have the very obvious need to keep their fanbase happy (else they don't stay in business), but they also need to be able to pay the team that's making the content that's keeping the fanbase happy. 6 months worth of man-hours is a LOT. over 4,000 hours per car.


how many companies do y'all think would actually stay in business if they spent that kind of time making a product then gave the product away for free?

now granted, for upgrades i don't think it'd take that kind of time as the sounds and the physics model are already there, and really all that's left is the rendering and possibly some tweaks to said sounds and physics models... but even then, you're not talking about something that can be done in a day, or even a week i don't suspect. the visual rendering is just too in-depth for a quick bit of coding.

Take the 4383 hours worth of work and split it up between the 100 or so people on the GT5 team. That equates to roughly 2 days per premium car if they were to work non-stop without sleep.
If they were to sleep, say 8 hours per day, then it would be 3 days per premium car. I would multiply that by about 4 or 5 because they probably have more pressing issues, like fixing the glitches with the game.
It shouldn't take them too long to start releasing DLC once the game is rock-solid.
 
I can pay if the pack consists of M3 E30 and E36, M5 E39, Ferrari 255 GTO '84, Audi S1, Lamborghini Diablo (don't care which model), Bugatti EB110 etc etc....I DON'T want to see cars like the Prius or ridiculously fast cars like F1s' or Group C cars....
 
I can pay if the pack consists of M3 E30 and E36, M5 E39, Ferrari 255 GTO '84, Audi S1, Lamborghini Diablo (don't care which model), Bugatti EB110 etc etc....I DON'T want to see cars like the Prius or ridiculously fast cars like F1s' or Group C cars....

Then don't buy them. What is it with people intolerant of slow and fast cars?
I wish they would put some toyota corollas in this game. (besides the Levin and Trueno)
 
Four hours with a nice girl > a hundred hours with a good game.

Luckily, I don't have to decide between the two :sly:

Not sure about that...30 mins to an hour is enough for me...after that, you have to talk to them. I'd rather spend the other 3 hours playing Gran Turismo. Different kind of entertainment, I suppose...

Disclaimer: I have a girlfriend and she didnt appreciate Modern Warfare 2...not sure she appreciates Gran Turismo 5 either.
 
Not sure about that...30 mins to an hour is enough for me...after that, you have to talk to them. I'd rather spend the other 3 hours playing Gran Turismo. Different kind of entertainment, I suppose...
I see what you did there :sly:

Disclaimer: I have a girlfriend and she didnt appreciate Modern Warfare 2...not sure she appreciates Gran Turismo 5 either.
Be happy, though. My GF despises video games in general.
 
Then don't buy them. What is it with people intolerant of slow and fast cars?
I wish they would put some toyota corollas in this game. (besides the Levin and Trueno)
I don't get any satisfaction of driving very slow cars or too fast cars (at least on the "Nord"
I just want to see more iconic cars from the 80's and 90's

GTi versions of the Corolla and other are more than welcome...I just don't want to see the 1.6l models



but I HATE über slow cars like the Prius in a game.....
 
Seems to me most people seem to put up with unfinshed goods these days.
Yes I enjoy GT5! But there is no way I think its better than GT3 /4.
HD & Eye-Candy aside its flawed.

The game that I paid 65 Euros for is unfinished & though this is a current trend in the Game industrie these days to relase unfinished goods these days.

This also is a trend with most goods these days & most just put up with it:tdown:

I am sure that PD put a lot of hard work into there games but I also would say
that they must have come under a lot of pressure from there pay masters Sony corp.


Seing that the PS3 as not been the runaway succes that the PS1/2 were.

Sony needed its Flag ship game out last Xmas to try & boost sales along with there new Move controler this I also understand as had problems too.


I would think that Sony is still trying to recoup the vast costs that the PS 3 cost to develope & its high sale price compared to the the Wi & Xbox 360.


Yes you get 200 Hi quality cars & then a whole lot of padding out with Standard cars & tracks.

Same go,s for tracks.

Then there are the bad shadows & lots of other issues.


lack of save game a vast oversite there is no way most can finish the game.

I for one will not run my PS3 24/7 to do a 24 hrs race.

Can not see PD replaceing my PS3 in the event of it braking.

I for one will not pay for DLC if its just fixing content that should have been in game in the first place.

New addon packs yes if this means new cars or tracks at good price that is ok.

I also wonder how much stuff is on the BD disc game takes up 8 gig on HD .
BD can hold up to 36 gig ?

So there could be lots of locked content in there like prem cars or tracks that maybe are not quite finished.

But would only need a small amount of DLC content to put them in game.


Its quite simple what ever way you look at it.

The game is flawed & was not ready to be released.

This is my view point on the paid DLC front.

Also I seem to remember some one making a joke about GT5 years ago.

Saying that you would get 100 new cars & a few tracks & then the rest would be paid for DLC content.

Maybe he was not far of the make if they go down that route.

rant over:indiff:
 
if they are upgrades from standard to premium and are not free i will sell the game. Thinks that should have been already in the game instead of delivering a game full of crappy gt4 models.

While if it's new content it's ok but however i will never buy abything except for SPA.
 
I see what you did there :sly:


Be happy, though. My GF despises video games in general.

Mine says I play too much as well (which I do, and probably have for the last 25 years since my Atari 2600). I think me and her probably agree that paid DLC for stuff already on the disk is garbage though. I wish they'd add more German and American cars...roadgoing cars, like the 335i perhaps???
 
DLC is simple todays version of expansion packs.

Expansion packs were usually a lot better value than DLC is today, they had a sizable amount of content for less than half the cost of the full game.

Things such as a pack of 10 DLC cars costing £6.99 are disproportionately expensive.
 
Well, if you think about it, why would DLC cost anything in the first place? There is a way around it. Gift it. (Unless they put a restriction on duping and gifting $5 DLC car packs.)


You are aware the upgraded premiums will replace standards so if you gift someone an upgraded premium if they haven't purchased the DLC it will revert to standard.
 
Roll over ? Econ 101, supply and demand, do you know of these terms ? 60 bucks is the sweet spot for GT5 and PD had to operate within that parameter. Get over it and be thankful technology is as cheap as it is.

Scotty

Yes I have a grasp of basic economics and I've explained this already, supply and demand does not effect software as it does other consumer products because once it's been coded it can be duplicated countless times for essentially no cost. Software has the potential for over exaggerated profit margins if it reaches high volumes of sales.

That is why DLC is generally too expensive.

If a 5-10 car pack cost ~£1 fair enough, lots of people will buy it and it will still more than cover the production/distribution costs, but such DLC packs tend to cost between somewhere in the region of £4-£10, this is allot more than they are worth.

DLC is, in most cases unfairly priced, but people seem to be willing to fork out the cash, so software companies will continue to exploit it's customers.
 
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Yes I have a grasp of basic economics and I've explained this already, supply and demand does not effect software as it does other consumer products because once it's been coded it can be duplicated countless times for essentially no cost. Software has the potential for over exaggerated profit margins if it reaches high volumes of sales.

That is why DLC is generally too expensive.

If a 5-10 car pack cost ~£1 fair enough, lots of people will buy it and it will still more than cover the production/distribution costs, but such DLC packs tend to cost between somewhere in the region of £4-£10, this is allot more than they are worth.

DLC is, in most cases unfairly priced, but people seem to be willing to fork out the cash, so software companies will continue to exploit it's customers.

Isnt that supply and demand at work? A product only has as much value as consumers are willing to pay for it. You can say that DLC is unfairly priced, but the market price is supported by a lot of other people who think differently than you.
 
Isnt that supply and demand at work? A product only has as much value as consumers are willing to pay for it. You can say that DLC is unfairly priced, but the market price is supported by a lot of other people who think differently than you.

No supply and demand factors in production costs and availability too(that's the supply part)

There is no physical limit on supply for software because it is virtual and doesn't need further input of resources/extensive capital to be reproduced, so it's different to other products such as food/consumer electronics etc where supply is limited. In the case of a product/service with limited supply and a high consumer demand, the cost/perceived value of the product will increase.
 
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No supply and demand factors in production costs and availability too(that's the supply part)

There is no physical limit on supply for software because it is virtual and doesn't need further input of resources/extensive capital to be reproduced, so it's different to other products such as food/consumer electronics etc where supply is limited, anything in limited supply with a high consumer demand goes up cost/perceived value.

True that there is no physical limit to software, but there is a limit to supply I. the sense that you can't just go get your DLC cars from somewhere else. If there's only one drug dealer on the block, you think the prices will be in his favor or the consumer's? Obviously, there is a happy medium, but I'd think the supplier would have the upper hand.
 
True that there is no physical limit to software, but there is a limit to supply I. the sense that you can't just go get your DLC cars from somewhere else. If there's only one drug dealer on the block, you think the prices will be in his favor or the consumer's? Obviously, there is a happy medium, but I'd think the supplier would have the upper hand.

Of course, when an entity has a monopoly on something they can set the price as they wish, if there is demand for it, even if supply is not limited by normal constraints, but is that fair? and should we as consumers accept paying over the odds for such products and services?

Edit: sorry the last sentence of my last post didn't quite make sense, i've re-worded it.
 
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Mine says I play too much as well (which I do, and probably have for the last 25 years since my Atari 2600).
I can relate to that :D In my case, though, it's about palying at all... Tough luck, I guess :indiff:
I think me and her probably agree that paid DLC for stuff already on the disk is garbage though. I wish they'd add more German and American cars...roadgoing cars, like the 335i perhaps???
Agreed. Actually, I'd like a bias towards non-Japanese stuff in general, to counterbalance the bias towards JDM stuff acurrently present in GT5 👍
Of course, when an entity has a monopoly on something they can set the price as they wish, if there is demand for it, even if supply is not limited by normal constraints, but is that fair? and should we as consumers accept paying over the odds for such products and services?
While I kinda agree, fairness has never been a very valid economical concept and I doubt it'll ever be. There's little we can do about it, aside from not buying the DLC packs.
However, if they are desirable to the masses, that'll be hard to do.

I'm generally not very comfortable with paying for DLC packs and the like, but stick an awesome car or two in such a pack and I'm still more than likely to buy it... :sick:
 
Then what will happen, like forza, is a temp car will show up and take its place and its physics and collision boxes will be translated to your screen.
In forza, it was a black VW Bora (Jetta).
I wouldn't be surprised if it's something similar to that in GT5.

Crap like this will ruin my whole gaming experience.

paying EXTRA for updates is something i hate, being forced to be fooled by replacement cars is something from another world as well.

IF they are going to add payed DLC, they should simply release a new disk that will be available in stores for lets say 10 or 15 bucks that holds everything you need. Many games have expansion packs later on, and I think it would be the best for GT5 as well. I'm not looking forward to seeing replacement cars all day every day online just because everyone buys their own set of cars. That is just ridiculous!
 
If it takes 6 months or 4000 hours to make 1 premium car, which might not be the case if they have refined the process, but anyway 4000 hours might cost £10/hour (nearly double minimum wage) £40,000 labour cost. If they wanted to sell the car as DLC then they could sell it for 40,000 divided by the number of projected downloads. If 500,000 people wanted the download then that's a price of 0.08 of a pound, or what we might call 8 pence. So a paid for DLC car for GT5 should cost about 10 pence, set of 10 £1. That's fair, but it might not be fair when a price is set for the PSN store.
 
That analogy doesn't quite work either. There's no way you watch a two-hour movie on DVD hundreds of times, in a lifetime, nevermind in the same time-frame that a game like GT5 lasts. Also, a new-release dvd costs 1/3 of a game. So i'd say a game is still much better value than a movie on DVD (and that's coming from a HUGE film buff).

Even if you buy your DVD's while they're cheap (on sale), you still will only watch that film a maximum 5 times a year, which is still only 10 hours of entertainment. You can play ten hours of GT5 in 2 days (1 for some unfortunate people), without running out of things to do.

Actually if I buy any DVD the kids like I get to watch it hundreds of times, I know practically all the words of most animated or fast and furious films made :lol: I have watched Kung Fu panda, The Princes Bride, The first 3 Fast and Furious movies, Judge Dred, the Rush Hour movies each more than I have ever played any game and I can say that about a number of movies and keep in mind that I have played movies on my Playstation since I bought the PS2 the week it came out so any time watching a movie by any family member is free time I am not playing a game. And I have never paid more than $15 for a new release movie, I just know where to buy them but I paid $117 for GT5, both are in AUD.

Even if the comparison isn't relevant for most people it is still more relevant than food which is a necessity of life or going to the movies which is essentially the shared rental of technology and realestate most people can't afford.

Still I maintain that the only relevant comparison is other games and that is what most people base their value assessment on.
 
While I kinda agree, fairness has never been a very valid economical concept and I doubt it'll ever be. There's little we can do about it, aside from not buying the DLC packs.
However, if they are desirable to the masses, that'll be hard to do.

I'm generally not very comfortable with paying for DLC packs and the like, but stick an awesome car or two in such a pack and I'm still more than likely to buy it... :sick:

Consumers are becoming more informed, I reckon that within the not too distant future we'll come to a point where unfair business practices are unacceptable and unsustainable, I live in hope!
 

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