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Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by GTPNewsWire, Oct 3, 2019.
LOL. And all throughout I saying that little boy driving real good yes.
If I'm in the minority of my train of thought then that's fair. But if we're awarding wins based on who's fastest then it may as well just be a one race format and prepare for every future season to be dominated by a handful of teams and the fastest drivers coagulating to those teams. If those team counts number in the 8-10 range then great, but I dont think there's that many drivers on that level and of the four teams that have raced in season 1, Thrustmaster is the only one to use the same four drivers and the others have had a rotating cast of 6+ to pull from.
I would rather we look at this like traditional athletic sports where defense is as valuable as offense. Where a team can have two really quick drivers, one with average pace and one reliable one who's phenomenal at making his car as "wide" as possible to make it difficult to pass.
I'd throw out the traditional rule book on how much defense a driver can do barring full on car to car contact (by no means am I suggesting turning this event into demolition derby!) and ensure the points allow for both races to count.
Williams did a great job and Im not trying to take what they did from them, but I would prefer they go down in history as the only race 1 winners. With talent and ability like that, any changes (should they come or not) would still see them at the pointy end of a season.
In my eyes its the equivalent to recruiting a football team of only the fastest and most accurate players and doing away with the goalie.
I agree that a repeat of the whitewash race would not be ideal, but then again if a team is good enough to obtain that, then so be it.
I cannot agree though that the series should not be about the fastest racers. Not only is that what motorsport is all about, but it should serve as motivation for other racers to join forces as a team to challenge the stronger teams and hopefully become aliens themselves.
The series for me is about seeing the skills of guys like @TRL_Lightning, Fuvaros etc. or what Calster can do with a controller or strategies they apply, but not how we can balance the teams to give everyone a chance. The FORZA Invitational is evident of this. On paper RBR is outright favourites with Laige, Box and Venom, but LZR and Williams showed that ranking is not everything and there's much more in it to take the top of the podium. AND that's what makes the racing a great show to watch and why I keep watching. The exact same applies to this GTP series. I'm convinced the upcoming TRL/Williams final will show us that.
You make valid points, but either you misunderstood or I didnt make my point clear.
I would like a systen that allows a team of drivers with different abilities to shine. Calster, TRL_Lightning and others already have plenty of other avenues to show off their speed, and that would not be diminished with what I'm suggesting.
I simply want a system where a guy who nobody has ever heard of can join a hypothetical team with Calster and TRL_Lightning and contribute to a win without needing to be a top 20 GT player to do it.
We already have every other racing esport to watch if we want to see who's fastest. With team racing we can see defensive strategies and other methods employed to help a team win to open up the driver pool so we can have more than four teams that each pull more than four drivers dominating the series.
I think using tracks with
I'm not sure what you want. If better players get together into teams, then they will potentially do very well. It is up to other teams to get better. Most of the ties were pretty close with the teams that took part because of the way the points are. Yes, it could get to a point where the same few teams compete against each other, and even the same team wins overall, but until that all comes to pass, lets see how it goes.
I do agree that the same teams playing each other could get boring quite quickly, but that will depend on how many other teams there are out there, and how they compete/are selected, to take part. The best normally rise to the top though.
More variability and strategy could be added with compulsory pit and/or tire changes, but that would be difficult with to do with short races.
I want the series to grow. I want a team to realize that, even as the points system sits right now with no alterations, you don't need four of the fastest drivers to win. I want growth to come from guys like Calster and TRL_Lightning to realize that you don't need to band together to be competitive. I want a series that encourages guys like that from taking a chance to race with slower guys to teach and inspire them to be faster.
What I don't want is to see the same drivers from GT World Tour racing together, just now they're all wearing two paint jobs.
Currently, there is no cap on the number of members a team can have. Over the first season, Williams has had eight different drivers, Lazarus and TRL have had seven. Only Thrustmaster has used the same four drivers for each race and despite all four of them being unquestionably talented, they went nil for the entire season. Does it pay to have more than four members then?
I'm going to wait to see how Season 2 works out before making any conclusions regarding this, but if the best drivers don't bother trying other teams and they all coagulate under a handful of banners, then we risk running into super teams with depth of roster and it doesn't matter if you're Nico Rubilar and company.
And contrary to what some might be thinking, my system doesn't suddenly mean some random Joe can overcome the likes of Williams just because he can swerve back and forth and not let them by. You still have to be Calster-levels of talent. Just now, a Calster like drive could be rewarded with a win rather walking away empty handed. And that reward would come from effort and strategy rather than some panel-derived gold star because you managed to impress the powers that be to earn the "Most Spirited Defense" award (although such merits are worth considering! But in addition to, not in lieu of).
The start of all of this was to eliminate the chance for a Race 1 Win. Both races should matter, that was all. I analyzed the numbers comparing the current points system to the suggestion I made for calculating points for Race 1 a few days ago and the conclusion was this:
The Spreads are either unchanged or even closer going in to Race 2.
A Dominant Team like Williams would still be dominant, especially if they get both available bonus points by the conclusion of Race 1.
There is no longer a chance to win in Race 1, giving the rival team a chance to score a win with defensive drives.
While Famine made a show of the doom and gloom of a team tanking one driver to have Pole for the following race, there's actually little stopping them from doing it now since in my system and the current system, the points spread is the same and the few times it's off, it's off by 1 with the difference favoring the rival team.
A team of good drivers can beat the best if they manage to hone their defense.
I think there needs to be some kind of definition in the future (near or far) to how big a team can be to encourage the names we know to spread their talents around so we can have other competitive teams and I think that the mention of stockpiling of talent I made should be reduced when more spots open for team entries and the series matures.
Forgive me for the double post but I actually have more to say on the topics of "What I want" and "Better Teams will rise to the top."
I want and @Jordan to be the eSports racing league to join if you want to get better.
I want there to be a clearly defined path for a bunch of guys to get together and go from racing on their couches with DS4's (and eventually DS5's) to competing and losing against Williams and then maybe competing and winning against Williams.
I want this series to be attractive to sponsorships so that teams and drivers can get sponsors for their eSports careers and GTPlanet can get sponsors to help fund the series and make it bigger and better every season and offer prizes and other incentives for all teams participating.
I want the race format to be conducive to a two-race points system. I want this so that a new team who's just starting off doesn't get routed in a Race 1 Win format. Not once, not ever. Professional eSports racers can turn the cheek and move on, but rookies might not. I want this so that a quarter (or event worst, half) of the content of a broadcast (different from a quarter of the broadcast itself, note) isn't at risk of being rendered pointless because a team was dominant (or even worst, just got lucky and locked up the front four then stayed there all race).
I don't want All-Star teams for growth, competitive, and broadcast reasons. There should be "name-brand" drivers in every race for every team at the top level of the sport. "X-driver, the World Tour Champion, is looking for members for his team, would you wanna race with him?" is a question I'd love someone to get asked one day. There are a lot of fast racers in GT Sport, but there are only so many TRL_Lightnings. I want each team of talented drivers to shine alongside their TRL_Lightning.
I want to see strategy, defense and tactics. They do the same thing in real racing, why not here? When the analysts and broadcasters say 'Rear Gunner' (and boy don't they love to say that?) I want it to mean more than just "That's what we call the guy at the end of his pack and in front of the other pack".
I do not want, nor expect all of this "tomorrow". It will and should come when the time is right, but these should be close to the goals and objectives.
Alas, I'm not a Yankees, Patriots, Golden State Warriors or Real Madrid fan.
Prepare yourself for a long one, because I was bored.
I don't think these 'pro' teams are stockpiling drivers, just having a large roster of drivers to choose from because they are racing on many different fronts. You could look at it this way, if Williams eSports have 26 drivers on their roster, which amazingly they seem to have, (I know not all may be GT drivers) only 4 of them can race in one event, so 22 drivers are not filling up other teams. Yes, most teams have been changing drivers for different events, but again, any drivers not racing, are not taking up places in other teams.
Also, if TRL_Lightning is part of Team Redline, then he is not racing with other teams, or making his own team whilst 'signed' for them, same with anyone else who has signed for other eSports teams. The teams are not spreading their talent around, they have a brand to grow, and sponsors to please. And as above, one eSports team has the potential to put out four teams, now that would be stifling of anyone coming through.
"A team of good drivers can beat the best if they manage to hone their defense."
Mmm, doubtful imho. One v one, a defensive driver may be able to hold off another driver, and that is assuming the defensive driver was fast enough to qualify ahead from the start, otherwise it could be over by the first corner. Four drivers just lessens the odds of a defensive strategy being totally successful imho.
And I don't see how you can reward defensive driving, other than a defensive driver keeping others behind him, and so getting more points, and maybe allowing other team mates ahead gain more points, and maybe also allow them to build up a gap. A lot of maybes there.
Calster did a great job trying that, either by design, or because he couldn't break away, but was unable to do it for the whole race, and even when he was passed, the large lead the rest of his team was able to get, came down very quickly, even without the benefit of slipstream. The Williams drivers were just so much better on the day. Fastest wins, and so it should.
"I want to see strategy, defense and tactics. They do the same thing in real racing, why not here?"
Strategy and tactics are limited because of the format GT Planet has chosen, short races with no tire wear, fuel usage, or compulsory pit stops. Tire wear, fuel usage, and compulsory pit stops all have the potential to add a strategic element, even though not loved by many, but not in short races. Defence is a part every racer has to do, but the aim is to go faster and win, not defend and win.
"I want there to be a clearly defined path for a bunch of guys to get together and go from racing on their couches with DS4's (and eventually DS5's) to competing and losing against Williams and then maybe competing and winning against Williams."
I don't see how GT Planet could do this without having hundreds of regional races around the world. And anyway, PD have that path in place though for each driver to get to a high level in the GT online races, either FIA races, and/or consistently in the 'daily' races. When someone were consistently winning at high levels, they could be head hunted by a team, or start their own team with players of similar high level, but even then, unless they were invited based on the cumulative levels/results of the members of their team, they would have to take on the big teams somewhere and do well against them.
It depends on how GT Planet plans to choose the teams involved in the future. I'm not sure I have read anywhere what format the races will take in the future, and which, and how many teams will be involved.
With regards to not having a dead second race, I now see the reasoning behind the last race having double points at the GT events, to keep that final race interesting and relevant. Thought that is for individuals over three races, rather than groups of four over two races.
If in the first race players get 8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1 points, and in the second race they get 16,14,12,10,8,6,4,2 points, as there would be double the points available in the second race, no team could win in one race, even if they have the qualifying and fastest lap points. Still Harder to explain in a two race format, but it would not kill the tie after one race, and the 2x faster laps and qualifying points could still split the teams if they happened to get the same points overall. No doubt there is a reason I have not considered why that would not work.
The downside could be potentially less close second races in terms of overall narrowness of points difference till the very end when the last car crosses the line in the second race, though that would have to be tested, as I can't in my head with the multiple combinations of scoring. And potentially massive final score differences at the end. If a team gets the qualifying point, 2x fastest lap points, and finished in the top four places in each race, it would be a not very close 81 - 30. Then again, in the current system, it could be 55 - 20 with the same scenario.
Nice civil thread progression here. (I have contacted several other members )
While I still expect the situation from the semis to be unlikely, I understand the object in the point above. Because the starting positions for the second race are based on reverse finishing position for Race 1, I would like to see less than double premium for points for Race 2. To maintain an odd numbered event round point total, could we consider 9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2 for Race 2 if we elect to change the current format? This assures relevance for the second race without so greatly penalizing top finishers from Race 1.
The three points for the fastest qualifying, and a point each for fastest lap of the race ensures that there can't be a tie. 8-1 points gives a total of 36 points, 72 points total over the two races, so not team benefits if they get equal race positions over the two races. My idea would give 36 points for the first race, and 72 for the second race, so 108 overall, those extra three points are always the tie break.
If team A got the top four positions in race 1 the would win 26 - 10, disregarding the extra points. If the result were reversed in race 2, would be 52 - 20, so team B would win 62 - 46. With the three bonus points split any way would make no difference. Thinking about it though, starting race 2 in the top four places, and staying there till the end would be a huge benefit.
Just looking into your suggestion as I write this, and that may work too. The same scenario above;
If team A got the top four slots in race 1 the would win 26 - 10, disregarding the extra points. With points from 9-2 for the second race, if team B got positions 1 - 4 they would win the second race 30 - 14, so then it would 40 - 40 with the three bonus points splitting the teams. So that looks better. It also ensures that the second race is not dead, as a team can only have a maximum of 28 points (26+best quali 1 + fastest lap 1) and there are 30 points available for getting top four places in race two. I think that may be the best option if they are looking to ensure that a tie isn't over after one race in the future. There is still a slight benefit for top four places in race two as opposed to race one, but to ensure that a race two is relevant, it may be the best option.
Hopefully there isn't something obvious as to why that is not a good idea.
I'm obviously biased, but I'm quite excited for this finale, especially after peeking at the line-ups for Redline and Williams...
To thank you all for tuning in this season, I'm giving away one of those cool FIA GTC shirts they had in New York. We'll release the contest details at the end of the broadcast on Sunday.
It's a great t-shirt, luckily I got Kenny to get one for me, with this new knowledge that they are quite rare I will treasure it even more lol
This is the discussion thread for a recent post on GTPlanet:
This article was published by Andrew Evans (@Famine) on October 19th, 2019 in the Gran Turismo Sport category.
I'm live with my point of view tonight, but of course be sure to check out the main broadcast as well!
Mainly because it's got me in the Chat.
FIVE MINUTE WARNING!
Just the grand final left now... Williams vs. Redline.
What a series. Excellent stuff all round.
Congrats to Team Williams. Well deserved. Tough luck Redline. No shame there. You had a very good series.
Looking forward to the next series.
Fun fact: over the course of the season, the teams' total points match their overall finishing positions, 216, 208, 202, 196. That effectively means that the winners are only one race better - after nine - than the last-placed team (maximum points difference after one race is 18, at 28-10).
Been meaning to catch these broadcasts, but haven´t had the time yet, until tonight. Watched tonight's final, great fun! I really like this team concept and the even gap in points between all 8 places, putting the emphasis on teamwork and the importance of the fight for every place, be it 1st og 7th.
Loads of fun, great job all who participated and organized!
Any date on next season?
How i win Shirt?I look the competition all,and not understand how.Sorry and my english is not good so much.
Congrats Team Williams and GTPlanet!
Congratulations, Williams, and well done @Adam41 and @Giorgio_57!
First, THANK YOU to all of the teams and drivers who eagerly took part in this crazy idea of mine. I have imagined something like this for years now, and to finally see it actually happening was a very special experience. It has taken an unbelievable amount of time, money, and brute-force effort to create the GTPlanet League. We hit many challenges over the past 6 months that made me think it might not even be possible at all... each broadcast requires the coordination of over 20 people from around the world, and if a few drivers don't show up, everything could fall apart. That never happened, though! I hope all the drivers know how much I appreciate their support throughout the season.
I am also thankful for Nick McMillen (@GumballCGT) and @Famine for helping me so much behind-the-scenes. It's still crazy to think I have a GT Academy champion beside me to produce these broadcasts, and Andrew's work compiling driver data and writing our supporting editorial content has been top-notch. None of it would have been possible without their help.
Thank you, also, to our viewers! Putting out something so different and unusual like this was a huge risk - I wasn't sure if it would even be possible, much less if anyone would actually enjoy watching it. We had steady growth in viewership throughout the season, with many return viewers each week. Thanks for tuning in and I hope you guys enjoyed the show!
Who wants Season 2?
@Jordan I was so excited to hear your ideas and vision for this league in New York, and it sure didn't disappoint! It was a pleasure to be a part of the inaugural season and I'm excited for future ones.
Cheers for organising it, Nick and Famine too. And to all the drivers I shared the track with.
I think it would be safe to say we all want. Congrats Jordan and the rest of the team for putting on an amazing series of events. Again, it was top class all round. I can't imagine what the cost would be for putting on a production like that but it must be quite a lot. Cheers.
Williams showed that they understood the team concept the best, so it's suiting that they won.
With more experience and as more teams come around to the idea it should make for more interesting racing in the future.
Williams having a cohesive squad for the last round and finals also helped.
EDIT: And since he liked this, I gotta give a shout out to @TRL LIGHTNING for doing what he could for his team at the end of the second race in getting the Fastest Lap Bonus Point despite being at the back. That kind of effort is what'll make this series interesting.
Great presentation of the series in all aspects as well as the commentating, so well done to Jordan and his support team, quite enjoyable to watch.
Races for 3rd place was nail biting and while I'm a LZR fan [on both FORZA and GTS], both LZR and Trustmaster showed some real class with their racing. AND I assume Calster will be 9yr next time round. Anyway, congrats to LZR.
The final was awesome too although I will always wonder what the outcome would have been was it not for the TRL_hall01 incident. On the night I don't think Williams had a better sense of strategy though, they were simply just the faster team in the two races. So congrats to the Williams team too.
Certainly looking forward to the next series.
PS. Really disappointed for not being allowed to enter the competition for the T-Shirt [non US resident], but I do understand the legal issues surrounding that. Hopefully next time.
Just got a chance to watch final broadcast, as am I unable to watch the live broadcasts on Sunday evenings.
Firstly. it was good that both ties went to a second race.
I think the Zonda's are great test of people's car control, and everyone did a great job of having close racing with few penalties. The low number of penalties needs to be applauded for all four races. Not something that can always be said at some of the PD events when it gets to the latter races.
Calster did a great race again in holding off a pack, whether by design, or necessity. I always find it amazing that he does so well whilst racing with a pad. And from one so young too.
The was quite a bit more space between the Super Formula cars than I was expecting.
No 'funky' stuff with the commentator's audio.
It sounds like an organisational nightmare from the post above, but a hint about the future plans would be nice.
Well done to everyone involved, it has been a great series, and I hope there will be more in the future.
This is the discussion thread for a recent post on GTPlanet:
This article was published by Andrew Evans (@Famine) on October 21st, 2019 in the Gran Turismo Sport category.
He's pleased... vvv
How Can I get a team into the next season???? I may have a squad that can compete and give these guys a run for their money...