iracing.com

[Vitessekid]

I've never noticed any significant FFB lag in iRacing; certainly not enough to cause any kind of confusion. I have noticed FFB lag in GT6, and even then it's only a problem if I let go of the wheel. There's a study (link) which demonstrated that humans are generally quicker to respond to tactile stimuli (touch) than visual stimuli, so if anything, humans would react faster to FFB than to visual cues even if there was a small delay.


Interesting. I saw a few comments on their YouTube videos suggesting that they do use FFB, but at a low setting. Maybe it's different for each driver; who knows for sure?

Hurry up iRacing staff, I want to try out the Nurburgring and MP4-30 already!

I think this FFB lag is based on wheel... Or something. I don't get FFB lag on GT6, so this is all very confusing. This no FFB iRacing thing is still blowing my mind, though it isn't the same test I tried unplugging my DFGT from AC to remove the FFB, went on Bathrust, and well, out of pits, turn 2, crash! I continued a little longer to see how I could perform, I was 3 tenths up my best lap with FFB.

 

[swiftwilly]

We used the RUF Track... Most all round consistent car and we wanted to give ourselves the best chance possible to make the World Championship.

As far as easiest to drive goes... They all have their strengths and weaknesses. I enjoy driving the McLaren and the Z4 the most out of the lot, but the McLaren and the Z4 have definite strong and weak tracks. McLaren was very strong at Monza due to good straight line speed. But the Z4 was good at the tight tracks due to having awesome downforce and handling but it has no power so at Monza it was hopeless. They're all relatively easy to drive, but hard to drive at the limit (like anything). Only one I don't recommend is the Ford GT3. But in the new build... who knows, they will likely update all the GT3 cars and the parity again which will mean that the cars pace will inevitably change.

This is what gets me sometimes, they change the cars. How and why I don't get. As in why so often if it is realistic. Just doesn't seem so to me.

Appreciate the feedback

 

[AJ]

Calling all PC sim races who would be interested in taking part in online events organised here at GTPlanet. Please get in touch via PM or hit the like button to register your interest. Many thanks.

 

[Mac K]

Have tire noises been increased? It seems like "tire squeal" is much louder than it was in previous builds..

Edit: Just checked release notes, yes they have... bleh

 

[Myles Prower]

iRacing has been down for 2 days

 

[Christian_C]

This is what gets me sometimes, they change the cars. How and why I don't get. As in why so often if it is realistic. Just doesn't seem so to me.

Appreciate the feedback

It's balancing for GT3 basically because everyone moans.

They're constantly updating the underlying physics with regards to chassis, aero and tyre physics and keep adding new things such as chassis twist, updated tyre models, aero models, etc.

So sometimes these changes affect one GT3 car more than another and so they re-balance those cars to try and equalize them.

That's all it is.

I don't really understand your comment to be honest though, I'd rather they update and keep increasing the complexity of the physics to get it so that it is as close to real life as feasible. For example, consider this, F=ma is a pretty decent way of figuring out how much force it takes to increase the velocity of an object right? so why don't we just leave it at that since that's a pretty good first attempt and probably gets you 90% of the way there?

There's absolutely no magic bullet when it comes to physics modelling and new techniques/solver theories are always being developed so the service is updated to take advantage of these and the ever increasing processing power available to perform the required calculations.

And tyre modelling is just absolutely insanely difficult, you can basically get the tyre tester to tell you whatever you want it to which makes validating your data very difficult.

This is why they are constantly updating, not even Pirelli, Michelin, Goodyear, Bridgestone, etc can tell you exactly how their tyre will react on a car at a given track. All they can give you is their best guess based off the testing they did or previous experience. iRacing is working the same way really so I can understand why it is as it is.

It's not perfect though, I've hated what they've done with some of the forcefeedback to certain cars but I know that in a build or so's time it will probably change again.

 

[swiftwilly]

It's balancing for GT3 basically because everyone moans.

They're constantly updating the underlying physics with regards to chassis, aero and tyre physics and keep adding new things such as chassis twist, updated tyre models, aero models, etc.

So sometimes these changes affect one GT3 car more than another and so they re-balance those cars to try and equalize them.

That's all it is.

I don't really understand your comment to be honest though, I'd rather they update and keep increasing the complexity of the physics to get it so that it is as close to real life as feasible. For example, consider this, F=ma is a pretty decent way of figuring out how much force it takes to increase the velocity of an object right? so why don't we just leave it at that since that's a pretty good first attempt and probably gets you 90% of the way there?

There's absolutely no magic bullet when it comes to physics modelling and new techniques/solver theories are always being developed so the service is updated to take advantage of these and the ever increasing processing power available to perform the required calculations.

And tyre modelling is just absolutely insanely difficult, you can basically get the tyre tester to tell you whatever you want it to which makes validating your data very difficult.

This is why they are constantly updating, not even Pirelli, Michelin, Goodyear, Bridgestone, etc can tell you exactly how their tyre will react on a car at a given track. All they can give you is their best guess based off the testing they did or previous experience. iRacing is working the same way really so I can understand why it is as it is.

It's not perfect though, I've hated what they've done with some of the forcefeedback to certain cars but I know that in a build or so's time it will probably change again.

Whilst I can see from your point of view that they are making it more realistic, I think if you take a step back and look through the lens of someone who is impartial to any sim racing, more realistic is really an opinion unless someone has experience in every single one of iracing’s cars and also race iracing non stop, you are simply taking what iRacing dev says that it is more realistic, as opposed to something based on actual facts. I am also mindful no sim racing game is perfect or realistic, each has its strength and flaws.


Secondly, I explained this in my past post a few pages back, if it is so realistic, why does it keep changing from season to season (sometimes drastically like the NTM fiasco). Whist this update is for GT3, when I raced, the Skip felt so difference from one season to the next. So essentially its realistic until the next patch? So how can iRacing be realistic if they are still constantly changing tyre models, aero, etc like you mentioned? So basically it is not realistic right? Also, if they are changing GT3 cars to balance it, again - this means it is not realistic right? If they perfectly replicated cars and is so realistic, there shouldn’t be such drastic changes?

Overall, if iRacing is still constantly changing and the devs are actually balancing cars - this is clearly not the definition of realistic.

Hope that makes sense. Please don’t take the above as me flaming iRacing, I have always said before, every racing sim has its strengths and weaknesses, my comments above is not me saying iRacing is terrible. I think it is a very good sim in some areas, some others not. Hope that makes sense.

 

[noshog]

To be honest @swiftwilly I think you are looking into it too much. Yes, no sim is 100% realistic, and no sim ever will be. The way I look at it is, that at least they are always trying to evolve/improve their sim, sometimes they get it right, sometimes wrong, I am just happy that they are constantly trying to improve everything. It would be easy for them to say X car is close enough lets leave it at that.
And in regards to the top drivers using 'tricks'....Well thats the nature of competition, whether real life or gaming, anyone who has a natural competitive streak will always look for ways to be better, faster, stronger than the next man (or woman).
While agree that the constant tweaks to the GT3 cars isn't realistic, I would still prefer them to keep up with the balancing, nothing worse than going into a session and finding 40 BMW's and 2 McLaren's.....Keep them balanced, keep a good mix of cars on the grid, and it allows you to drive your preferred GT3 car and know you should still be competitive.

I mean really, this is why I still pay them my money, I believe I am paying for constant development to improve the sim, if they released something then never touched it again, then I would probably quit and go to a sim that didn't have a subscription.

 

[Imari]

So basically it is not realistic right?

That's right. It's not realistic and it never will be.

What they're doing is trying to get it closer to realistic each time. You apparently would prefer a game that was static and never changed. Some appreciate that over time the game is improving, even though at times it may be a case of one step backwards, two steps forward.

Learn that nothing is ever black and white, and sometimes shades of grey are just fine.

 

[swiftwilly]

Yes - but you guys do realise how you view the game is what I am trying to say.

You guys are essentially agreeing with me.

We're literally arguing about the same point despite, at its core, agreeing with each other.

I am simply replying to people who call iRacing real. It is not.

That's right. It's not realistic and it never will be.

What they're doing is trying to get it closer to realistic each time. You apparently would prefer a game that was static and never changed. Some appreciate that over time the game is improving, even though at times it may be a case of one step backwards, two steps forward.

Learn that nothing is ever black and white, and sometimes shades of grey are just fine.

No. You are assuming incorrectly.

I am saying, if it was real, things cannot change so drastically.

There was nothing about me saying things shouldn't change and things shouldn't improve.

Please, for the sake of others potentially going off in a tangent, I would appreciate people not misinterpreting what I am saying.

I am all for iRacing improving, changing, and getting more realistic. But it is not correct to say it is realistic if there are still things being improved upon - sometimes they get it very wrong (thus clearly, going against the entire definition of being "realistic"). Is that such a wrong thing to say?

I think this is the end of the matter and hopefully the clears any misunderstanding



On a separate issue - how you guys coping with the server down?
The good: looks like they are fully working on it
The bad: it this really acceptable? They are the veterans of sim racing and price is above average. We do deserve better.

 

[Imari]

But it is not correct to say it is realistic if there are still things being improved upon - sometimes they get it very wrong (thus clearly, going against the entire definition of being "realistic"). Is that such a wrong thing to say?

Honestly, yes.

You're getting all bent out of shape because you're using "realistic" and "real" as synonyms. Nobody should be saying that iRacing is real, or if they are, then they're idiots.

However, "realistic" simply means "similar to reality". "Real" means "identical to reality". These things are not the same.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/realistic

1.
interested in, concerned with, or based on what is real or practical:
a realistic estimate of costs; a realistic planner.
2.
pertaining to, characterized by, or given to the representation in literature or art of things as they really are:
a realistic novel.
3.
resembling or simulating real life:
a duck hunter skilled at making realistic decoys.

iRacing is realistic in the same way that a realistic novel, or a realistic duck decoy is. They're not real, but they contain a lot of the characteristics of the real things that they're depicting. One can make a more realistic duck decoy, it's a better representation of a duck than the previous one was.

iRacing isn't real, but it contains a lot of the characteristics of the real things that it's depicting. So it gets called realistic, and rightly so. It's quite a good representation of the real things that it's depicting. One can make it more realistic, it's then a better representation of a car on a track than it was before.

Saying that something is realistic is not a claim that it's real. That's the misapprehension that you're under, and that's what I replied to above because it's easier to simply talk to people in their own words than explain to someone why the words that they're using are wrong.

But the words you're using are wrong, and you should stop.

 

[swiftwilly]

If you want to be that literal, ok. But obviously when people like myself call it real, they mean realistic. Do you really think I/others think iRacing is "real" in a literal sense?

So i still find it odd, despite the number of going back and forth we're still pretty much on the same page. Never called it a bad sim. I just think with such major changes it is still far from being realistic. People say it close - but if I take a page out of your literal book - what is close? What are we measuring it on?

In terms of it being realistic, can you please help me understand. I would like to see non-iRacing funded marketing or paid consultant, talk about how realistic iracing is to the real thing. I would like their racing profession to reflect the car they talk about i.e. Star Mazda racer on the Star Mazda. Not his commentary on say, the RUF. I have watched a few videos, but they were all funded by iRacing. Hardly the best source. Because seems to me, our opinion on realism is all based on personal opinion and there is no right or wrong. Back in my old iRacing days speaking with some of the aliens for tips, they all told me things that you wouldn’t do in real life (i.e. realistic). Things like turn FFB off etc. Basically I concluded that they were gaming the game, not actually applying realistic driving techniques to racing.

Though overall, not surprised. It is my fault, never go against the fans.

I've learnt my lesson, iRacing is the best. it is the best damn sim racing game ever. The end.

 

[Imari]

If you want to be that literal, ok. But obviously when people like myself call it real, they mean realistic. Do you really think I/others think iRacing is "real" in a literal sense?

The way you interchange the two words it's impossible to tell, but some of the things make a lot more sense if that was so.

You say that the game can't change significantly if it's already realistic? If you mean that, then it's obviously nonsense. Of course the game can change significantly.

If you actually mean "if it's already real", then that's a sensible sentence, but a misunderstanding of what level of simulation the game is actually at. And what level of simulation it's actually possible for a game to achieve, but it's not an uncommon misconception.

Work on communicating clearly what you're actually trying to say, and not mixing and matching words that have different meanings. Expecting others to magically know what you mean from inside your head isn't going to work.

What are we measuring it on?

Reality.

What are you measuring it on?

Back in my old iRacing days speaking with some of the aliens for tips, they all told me things that you wouldn’t do in real life (i.e. realistic). Things like turn FFB off etc. Basically I concluded that they were gaming the game, not actually applying realistic driving techniques to racing.

Of course. If you're trying to win, you abuse the system to breaking point. Remember 2FMSH?

Don't ask people who are actively trying to break the system for advice on how realistic it is. They'll give you the opposite.

 

[swiftwilly]

So everyone on the internet talks in a literal sense?

Reality.

How can you measure reality? What is the reference point


a. A reference standard or sample used for the quantitative comparison of properties:

b. A unit specified by a scale,

c. A system of measurement, such as the metric system.

d. The dimensions, quantity, or capacity of something as ascertained by comparison with a standard

Whoops, looks like you made the same mistake I did

Come on Imari, we can rise above this, do we really need to resort to getting a dictionary out? I criticized iRacing, somehow got you really worked up. I am sorry. Please relax. Let's move on.

Look, iRacing is back up!

 

[Imari]

How can you measure reality? What is the reference point

The universe.

I criticized iRacing, somehow got you really worked up.

No, you misused words. I'm well aware how far from a perfect simulation iRacing is. There have been and continue to be serious flaws in their model. It just doesn't bother me when they try to make it better, and I don't think that labelling it as "realistic" now precludes them from making it more realistic later.

 

[polarbear345]

In other news, I like the new McLaren F1 car!

 

[Ettick]

In other news, I like the new McLaren F1 car!

I really like how all the ERS stuff is simulated and adjustable. Adds a huge layer of depth onto the car.

 

[Mac K]

According to Steve Myers on Twitter they'll be dropping the Ford GT GT3 and RUF Track in the GT3 series to make room for the incoming Audi and Mercedes..



And I still can't get over the terrible tire sounds.. Bleh get off my lawn.

 

[Christian_C]

@swiftwilly Sorry, I think my comments came across much harsher than I intended so apologies for that

I don't take what they say as fact but I can understand what they're doing and why. This is because they're basically doing what I do when I come to solve a problem, you first make a simple equation which gets you a good way there. After that you start adding complexity which becomes ever more time consuming but gives diminishing returns. The problem in this step is you can inadvertently include something which either interacts incorrectly with a previous function or has an erroneously high impact which you didn't intend for it to do.

The iRacing guys are constantly doing this and because it's now so complex it becomes ever harder to find out what function is missing or operating incorrectly with other functions.

The tyres are a really great example, they changed some sidewall stiffness functions a while ago and I don't think it has been as good since but it's likely that it's now either highlighted an area which is lacking or it has overstated its own importance. So the whole process is cyclical and will basically continue indefinitely.

I wouldn't quite agree on the balancing though, the BoP changes constantly in real life too, WEC even has seperate BoP's for seperate tracks.

 

[swiftwilly]

Guys all good seriously, I have moved on, hope you guys too. We're all sim lovers ahead of iRacing. So we're pushing sim, not iRacing. We should be united and get all sims up to scratch and promote competition so we as sim racers, get the best. It is not good to promote one horse, we'll get stung in the end (remember Microsoft days).

My goal is to find the flaws and identify them in each sim racing game, I want devs to fix it, so we all get better games. If we simply stand by and get spoon fed and being told what to like and what is realistic, I don't think that benefits anyone.



Question - how come the lotus 49 has so low participation? Everyone was so eager to drive it when I was still playing

 

[Roush_fan_99]

According to Steve Myers on Twitter they'll be dropping the Ford GT GT3 and RUF Track in the GT3 series to make room for the incoming Audi and Mercedes..



And I still can't get over the terrible tire sounds.. Bleh get off my lawn.

HA! That was driving me nuts too, especially in the FR500S

Here's an idea, make the limit 12+ different cars. Then you can run the HPD, both DP's, C6R, DBR9, and the 7(?) GT3's with room to grow.

Question - how come the lotus 49 has so low participation? Everyone was so eager to drive it when I was still playing

A lot of people find it too difficult to drive and shy away from it when presented with other options, sadly.

 

[swiftwilly]

HA! That was driving me nuts too, especially in the FR500S

Here's an idea, make the limit 12+ different cars. Then you can run the HPD, both DP's, C6R, DBR9, and the 7(?) GT3's with room to grow.



A lot of people find it too difficult to drive and shy away from it when presented with other options, sadly.

Sad to see. It was so hyped and looked forward to by many including myself before it was released.

 

[Mac K]

I think if people weren't so protective of their iR and SR, then a lot more would drive it.

 

[GTRacer22]

I think if people weren't so protective of their iR and SR, then a lot more would drive it.

Just here for the SR, guys!

 

[swiftwilly]

I think if people weren't so protective of their iR and SR, then a lot more would drive it.

can you blame them ?
SR means you can race in the series you want
IR means you race with better racers, lower amount of incidents

So pays off to care. That is the iRacing model. Unfortunately not always the best.

I've decided when I resub I'll do private leagues only. And tt for official stuff.

 

[Roush_fan_99]

can you blame them ?
SR means you can race in the series you want
IR means you race with better racers, lower amount of incidents

So pays off to care. That is the iRacing model. Unfortunately not always the best.

I've decided when I resub I'll do private leagues only. And tt for official stuff.

Some clubs put on some pretty good leagues. Northwest and Texas clubs are really proactive with their leagues.

On a side note, @Jav was kicking some Nürburgring a** last night in the Radical.

 

[swiftwilly]

well i resubbed for a month to check out what is going on. a few questions and thoughts.

Thoughts:
1. wow the skip feels totally different to the 2012 model. so much easier to drive...anyone know what happened? It feels like the Lotus 49 became the new skip, the skip has so much grip now. It use to be on ice skates!
2. graphics still damn poor...man it looks like a 90's game. just terrible...
3. I assume there is still website issues ? The website seems slow, cannot load any data. like check lap times, check your irating graph etc. Though I recall week 13 you couldnt load any data...can't remember

Questions:
1. is it me or the Corvette GT1 and the McLaren GT3 has pretty bad understeer? Does changing your wheel rotation help? Mine is 900 deg, what should I set it to help the understeer?
2. Whenever I hit the curb in the McLaren GT3 it goes into a crazy wheel spin..am I doing something wrong or should I avoid curbs?

 

[Roush_fan_99]

well i resubbed for a month to check out what is going on. a few questions and thoughts.

Thoughts:
1. wow the skip feels totally different to the 2012 model. so much easier to drive...anyone know what happened? It feels like the Lotus 49 became the new skip, the skip has so much grip now. It use to be on ice skates!
2. graphics still damn poor...man it looks like a 90's game. just terrible...
3. I assume there is still website issues ? The website seems slow, cannot load any data. like check lap times, check your irating graph etc. Though I recall week 13 you couldnt load any data...can't remember

Questions:
1. is it me or the Corvette GT1 and the McLaren GT3 has pretty bad understeer? Does changing your wheel rotation help? Mine is 900 deg, what should I set it to help the understeer?
2. Whenever I hit the curb in the McLaren GT3 it goes into a crazy wheel spin..am I doing something wrong or should I avoid curbs?

We have had several new tire models and a new surface model along with rubber build up and marbles, drivetrain flexing and suspension updates since you've been gone.

If you turn the graphics up, they look pretty sweet, no over saturated colors, obviously at the cost of FPS.

The website is having trouble this week because I believe they are working on a new version.

Setup changes everything, I am very free when I drive the corvette.

I use the G27 660 degree setting by pressing the middle two red dots on the shifter and what would be the circle button (for PlayStation) at the same time then calibrate the wheel.

Curbs are tough on the car, Road atlanta in particular with the high curbs. even low curbs have less traction.

also, Trading paints lost all of their data and people are slowly repopulating it.

 

[swiftwilly]

We have had several new tire models and a new surface model along with rubber build up and marbles, drivetrain flexing and suspension updates since you've been gone.

If you turn the graphics up, they look pretty sweet, no over saturated colors, obviously at the cost of FPS.

The website is having trouble this week because I believe they are working on a new version.

Setup changes everything, I am very free when I drive the corvette.

I use the G27 660 degree setting by pressing the middle two red dots on the shifter and what would be the circle button (for PlayStation) at the same time then calibrate the wheel.

Curbs are tough on the car, Road atlanta in particular with the high curbs. even low curbs have less traction.

also, Trading paints lost all of their data and people are slowly repopulating it.

Don't worry, my settings are literally the highest they can go. I run a GTX980 overclocked Graphics is still horrible. Looks way better on AC etc.

Ok so is it advisable that I change my wheel to 660? I literall yhave the change hand positions when i drive those GT1 and GT3 cars. My wheel is 900deg.

Also if someone has a link to the gearsound by peter holt that would be appreciated!

 

[Roush_fan_99]

Don't worry, my settings are literally the highest they can go. I run a GTX980 overclocked Graphics is still horrible. Looks way better on AC etc.

Ok so is it advisable that I change my wheel to 660? I literall yhave the change hand positions when i drive those GT1 and GT3 cars. My wheel is 900deg.

Also if someone has a link to the gearsound by peter holt that would be appreciated!

Do what is comfortable, I like 660.