Is Driver Assist over powered now?

[FerrellJ]

I just wouldnt want to call assists a unfair advantage cause at the highest level i think they are not.

It's a fine line- I think the countersteer and stability management assists were designed to level the playing field between pad and wheel users a bit. I don't think it's perfect though- in my experience, some really fast guys can and will find ways to abuse anything they can. I'm not saying it doesn't take skill to drive like they do but a lot of the stuff I've seen in the top 10 lap replays would absolutely not work in reality.

Unfortunately the physics changes in 1.6 probably made it easier to abuse these tactics for the average driver. That's a side-effect of increasing the raw grip levels without toning down the assists. Again, I think it takes a certain kind of skill to take advantage of the assists like that so I don't want to write off the ability of the people who can but I don't think it's a skill applicable to authentic racing.

Edit: upon re-reading this, it sounds like I'm discounting all the guys on the leaderboards and that was not my intent. Some of the guys I've seen consistently up there appear to be posting "legitimate" (for lack of a better term) laps- I'm not really seeing anything wrong with their wheel inputs or the noises the cars are making.

 

[FazerT]

Edit: upon re-reading this, it sounds like I'm discounting all the guys on the leaderboards and that was not my intent. Some of the guys I've seen consistently up there appear to be posting "legitimate" (for lack of a better term) laps- I'm not really seeing anything wrong with their wheel inputs or the noises the cars are making.

I know what you mean. I follow a couple of GT streamers that are in the top 10 leaderboards and I can see their screen while they race and they all race without any assist. At the top level I think assists would actually make their lap times worse as the car wouldn't respond correctly to their input. It's the bottom 80% of us stuck in races where there's a mix of ability brought together by the currently unfair assist system.

It's the disrespect they show while muscling their car past you because they don't lose time or risk a 10 second crash out by being off line and making contact on tight corners. I resent being knocked out of contention in a flippant clumsy passing move that defies physics

 

[praiano63]

The only assist that make you faster is ABS.
All the rest slow you down . They just neutralize the car s inertia when you pass the limit. This freezing time is a lost of time and / or speed.
If you feel that people are faster with AIDS , it is just because they don t have to deal with the catastrophic consequences that the AIDS avoid them to deal with.
Tested on my last race yesterday with 2 aliens and some others 16 fast drivers , everybody using ABS ,the result was:
ABS ONLY = 9
Counter steer assistance = 2
TC = 3
Counter steer assistance+ TC = 3
Counter steer+ TC + Brakes assist = 1

 

[JacksHerer]

I did a 1:56.709 for todays nurb GP. I'm DR:B SR:S but Im OK on that track and I used my favourite porsche. That time got me one pole (which I lost to aids drivers DR:A SR:S, I made one mistake and lost 6 positions, they made several mistakes and didn't even affect their pace!), then I got matched with DR:S SR:S who was 2 tenths quicker, but much faster race pace as I was defending my second position from the 1st corner.
I watched the replay and only 3 of us didn't use aids. Aids shouldn't be allowed in level DR:A/B/S.

I then did the bathurst race in my viper, lol only 3 of us not in a megane, unfortunately I qualified faster than a couple and they smashed me in the first corner, dont these idiots realise they can breeze past on the straight??? damn those idiots.

I never bought a wheel to drive FWD cars and I'm certainly not going to switch aids on!
This game rewards the controller using the GTAV 3rd person view.

I'm still enjoying it though.

 

[FazerT]

The only assist that make you faster is ABS.
All the rest slow you down . They just neutralize the car s inertia when you pass the limit. This freezing time is a lost of time and / or speed.

This is how it's supposed to be and up until last week it was my experience. I never had a problem with people using AIDS before.

Since the patch, whatever they changed, one of the consequences is that ASM and CSA give a huge advantage in controlling a recklessly handled car enabling low skilled people to put themselves in your way or higher skilled people to move from the middle of a pack to the top 10. I don't know your level and I don't know how this effects "A" or "S" DR rating races. I can only vouch for DR C/B and SR S races that I have been part of.

If you can get in a EU C ranked daily at the moment, start at the back and try getting to the front, I think you may find it quite tricky. On an open circuit running laps with and without assist won't prove much other than it help when you make a mistake.
It may surprise you what an advantage it gives a cunning racer in the heat of the chase

 

[FazerT]

I did a 1:56.709 for todays nurb GP. I'm DR:B SR:S but Im OK on that track and I used my favourite porsche. That time got me one pole .

Great time in the daily! I need to run that a few more times to improve my 1:59 (ABS default) but after yesterday and today my DR:B is a DR:C as I got bumped and tapped to midfield from top 5 grid starts which dragged my DR right down

I know I'm not the fastest by a long way but I was making steady progress until last week and now it just seems impossible to have a competitive race without fearing getting muscled out in the breaking zone by cars on rails

Ah well

 

[Be4you]

Haha no way any assist is gonna give a 10 sec advantage.

Yea i notice should hav been 56 not 46 :-)

 

[Be4you]

Since 1.6 i use only ABS at default and yesterday day i was 3 tenths of top 10 and the day before i was #4 on the EU leaderboard. In clean air i can do 10 laps all within couple tenths. So perfectly possible to go fast and be consistent without assist. In fact the update made it better to drive without assist as before i was using TC2 sometimes.

yea without assist is faster if u are as good as u are. But that takes som practice to learn the car and the track, but I think it’s stupid that you now can be almost as fast ust by switching on assist. I can probably go faster aswel without assist, but a little mistake destroying the entire race. And that is ok, it’s how it’s should be.

 

[JacksHerer]

thanks, yeh I was gutted not to have converted my pole, and disappointed not to have milked a few poles off of it.

 

[ChevapBH]

I've tried all of the assists and ASM slows you down extremely. It does make sure you won't go out of track, but it slows down so much. If you're a bad driver, use it, because you will get consistent laps, but if you want to be fast, it's impossible while using it.

 

[BSDShoes]

Yea i notice should hav been 56 not 46 :-)

omg whew...

 

[Bergevontrips]

The only assist that make you faster is ABS.
All the rest slow you down . They just neutralize the car s inertia when you pass the limit. This freezing time is a lost of time and / or speed.
If you feel that people are faster with AIDS , it is just because they don t have to deal with the catastrophic consequences that the AIDS avoid them to deal with.
Tested on my last race yesterday with 2 aliens and some others 16 fast drivers , everybody using ABS ,the result was:
ABS ONLY = 9
Counter steer assistance = 2
TC = 3
Counter steer assistance+ TC = 3
Counter steer+ TC + Brakes assist = 1

As I'm watching that video I start to understand how you guys can determine who has which assists in. Tbh I never spent a thought on them, when game came out I read "Abs default and counter strong, rest off" that's how I kept it. Anybody feel like explaining me the 4 icons? Upper left looks like lights on or off to me? Probably not lol thanks in advance!!

 

[FazerT]

Yea i notice should hav been 56 not 46 :-)

That's it, I'm taking your picture down off my wall!

 

[FazerT]

Anybody feel like explaining me the 4 icons? Upper left looks like lights on or off to me? Probably not lol thanks in advance!!

Yes, in the replay mode hit Options/display all and you can see everything the driver of any car can see while they are driving. Throttle position/ braking and any assists they have enabled. The assist lights up white when the driver has enabled it and red when it's actually in operation.

Yes the top left one is the headlight beam showing when your lights are on next to that is Counter Steering Assist, below left is Traction Control, right of that is Active Stability Management. On the left of the screen you can see the ABS (antilock braking system)

 

[BigDawg_1281]

I've tried all of the assists and ASM slows you down extremely. It does make sure you won't go out of track, but it slows down so much. If you're a bad driver, use it, because you will get consistent laps, but if you want to be fast, it's impossible while using it.

Agree with you completely. I started the game with ASM on for the first week, to get used to the handling. Once I turned it off I got much faster. After seeing this thread this morning, I tried turning back on. I was at least 2 secs slower. The car doesnt turn or accelerate well at all with ASM on.

 

[FazerT]

Agree with you completely. I started the game with ASM on for the first week, to get used to the handling. Once I turned it off I got much faster. After seeing this thread this morning, I tried turning back on. I was at least 2 secs slower. The car doesnt turn or accelerate well at all with ASM on.

2 seconds faster than with ASM, wow You must be pretty awesome.
Here's a screen shot of the top guy off the EU leaderboard right now for the Daily Sport race setting the fastest lap of 37.087 with ASM and Counter Steer assist on.
Please post your screen shot showing your 35.087 or faster time please. No, don't bother as I'll obviously see your name above his shortly.

 

[BigDawg_1281]

2 seconds faster than with ASM, wow You must be pretty awesome.
Here's a screen shot of the top guy off the EU leaderboard right now for the Daily Sport race setting the fastest lap of 37.087 with ASM and Counter Steer assist on.
Please post your screen shot showing your 35.087 or faster time please. No, don't bother as I'll obviously see your name above his shortly.

View attachment 697007

Nah, you won't see me on any EU leaderboard, I live on the other side of the pond .

I'm not saying it won't make some people faster. I know it only makes me slower. From what I've seen however, the driver that is always in the top 10 here ( ORMA_Snow ) doesn't use any assists. I know others consistently on the top 10 here don't either. I'm sure there are people that do tho.

 

[FazerT]

I'm not saying it won't make some people faster. I know it only makes me slower. From what I've seen however, the driver that is always in the top 10 here ( ORMA_Snow ) doesn't use any assists. I know others consistently on the top 10 here don't either. I'm sure there are people that do tho.

I know ORMA_Snow, I watch his stream occasionally, and yep, he's super fast with no assist, as are IOF_Racing, Lookey22 and Doodle who he races against a lot.

Some people here are simply commenting as if a statement of fact that any assist makes you slower over someone who can "really drive" and under normal circumstances that would be true, but my point is that lately it appears "normal" for many top drivers in many races at all levels to be winning with assists on, over people without. I think this points to a faulty balance system where there is too great an advantage to using it, and racers will always take any advantage they can.
It used to be for noobs, to get them into the game without too much frustration. Now it's the racers edge for some drivers.

Anyway, I don't mind if you cant get on a EU leader board, just let me know your non-assist lap time

 

[FazerT]

I've tried all of the assists and ASM slows you down extremely. It does make sure you won't go out of track, but it slows down so much. If you're a bad driver, use it, because you will get consistent laps, but if you want to be fast, it's impossible while using it.

Check my post pic below (or above?). The current top of leader board in EU daily has assists on. So if you know how to use them they are an advantage. They clearly do not "slow you down extremely" or he wouldn't be able to set such a fast time

 

[Stotty]

Might sound harsh, but...

Unless you're an alien, I would advise everyone to use TC and CSA when racing on line.

You have to face up to the reality of your ability and use every possible aid to run faster, more consistent laps... The faster, more consistent you are, the faster you'll progress up the rankings and get away from the real idiots that ruin your experience.

TC and CSA will help you get better, faster corner exits, and as a result, you should put more distance between yourself and the following potential punter (or just plain unskilled driver), thus limiting his ability to hit you.

It's all very well saying 'real racing doesn't use assists', but you're not a real racing driver, and unless you're getting top 10 qualifying times (or very close to), you don't have the skills to be one either.

 

[PJTierney]

Question for DS4 players:

• What ABS setting (Off, Mild, Full) have you found yourself going fastest with?

I've been using ABS Mild since the Closed Beta as I don't get enough controller feedback to run with it off. If ABS full is faster however I may switch over.

I get the arguments and principles behind using a more "pure" assist set but at the end of the day if one is competing to win they should use each and every single thing that gives them a legal advantage (that's why you see so many Renault Meganes in Gr.4). That shifts this thread's core question from "these players should stop abusing the assists" to "these assists should not be legal in the first place".

On a related note, is mild Countersteer Assistance still the way to go on DS4?

 

[racer_xis]

Question for DS4 players:

• What ABS setting (Off, Mild, Full) have you found yourself going fastest with?

I've been using ABS Mild since the Closed Beta as I don't get enough controller feedback to run with it off. If ABS full is faster however I may switch over.

I get the arguments and principles behind using a more "pure" assist set but at the end of the day if one is competing to win they should use each and every single thing that gives them a legal advantage (that's why you see so many Renault Meganes in Gr.4).

On a related note, is mild Countersteer Assistance still the way to go on DS4?

I use Full ABS, TCM varies 0-3 depending on the car and then everything else off... yesterday I tried one test for Mild ABS (only once, in the sport mode d3 race), need to test more, but at first it looked worse...

Reading today all the guys talking about countersteering, gonna test it soon

 

[jesQuick]

Question for DS4 players:

• What ABS setting (Off, Mild, Full) have you found yourself going fastest with?

I've been using ABS Mild since the Closed Beta as I don't get enough controller feedback to run with it off. If ABS full is faster however I may switch over.

I get the arguments and principles behind using a more "pure" assist set but at the end of the day if one is competing to win they should use each and every single thing that gives them a legal advantage (that's why you see so many Renault Meganes in Gr.4). That shifts this thread's core question from "these players should stop abusing the assists" to "these assists should not be legal in the first place".

On a related note, is mild Countersteer Assistance still the way to go on DS4?

Actually, I find ASM to be less intrusive. Idk...

 

[FazerT]

Might sound harsh, but...

Unless you're an alien, I would advise everyone to use TC and CSA when racing on line.

It's all very well saying 'real racing doesn't use assists', but you're not a real racing driver, and unless you're getting top 10 qualifying times (or very close to), you don't have the skills to be one either.

Hmm, you make some good points. I do qualify the majority of time in the top 10 (of my race not EU!) and sometimes top 5 with occasional Pole but I can't always convert those positions to results due to mostly my own inconsistent lap times (I like to blame people with ASM an CSA enabled for this as they don't get punished for minor errors, but if I was better they wouldn't be a problem).
I know this will improve as it has over the last month since starting to play GTS but it may help get through DR B quicker and hopefully into more clean racing?

Thanks for the advise

 

[BigDawg_1281]

I know ORMA_Snow, I watch his stream occasionally, and yep, he's super fast with no assist, as are IOF_Racing, Lookey22 and Doodle who he races against a lot.

Some people here are simply commenting as if a statement of fact that any assist makes you slower over someone who can "really drive" and under normal circumstances that would be true, but my point is that lately it appears "normal" for many top drivers in many races at all levels to be winning with assists on, over people without. I think this points to a faulty balance system where there is too great an advantage to using it, and racers will always take any advantage they can.
It used to be for noobs, to get them into the game without too much frustration. Now it's the racers edge for some drivers.

Anyway, I don't mind if you cant get on a EU leader board, just let me know your non-assist lap time

I am by no means a fast driver. I am a B/S and have raced with all of the guys you have mentioned. They are usually 2 secs quicker than me.

I know yesterday, my unassisted qualifying time at the Ring was a low 1:57. Not fast by any means. I think I could have hit a high 56, I didn't bother trying. The top 10 were hitting 55s.

Edit: Leaders in race were running 56s and I was running 58s

 

[Stotty]

Hmm, you make some good points. I do qualify the majority of time in the top 10 (of my race not EU!) and sometimes top 5 with occasional Pole but I can't always convert those positions to results due to mostly my own inconsistent lap times (I like to blame people with ASM an CSA enabled for this as they don't get punished for minor errors, but if I was better they wouldn't be a problem).
I know this will improve as it has over the last month since starting to play GTS but it may help get through DR B quicker and hopefully into more clean racing?

Thanks for the advise

I'm talking top 10 regional qualifying... if you're not within at least 2 seconds of the Alien times (ideally 1s), switch the assists on.

Unless you're an Alien, you will go faster and your laps will be more consistent... and as a result, your total race time will fall by huge margins.

The enjoyment from racing (for me at least), is not how realistic the aids are, but how close and clean the racing is... anything enables faster, closer, cleaner racing is good... the cars still handle properly with assists on... the same skills are needed... but the margin for error increases.

Hot lapping is another thing all together... there, the enjoyment comes from simply driving.

 

[nomoredramas]

Might sound harsh, but...

Unless you're an alien, I would advise everyone to use TC and CSA when racing on line.

You have to face up to the reality of your ability and use every possible aid to run faster, more consistent laps... The faster, more consistent you are, the faster you'll progress up the rankings and get away from the real idiots that ruin your experience.

TC and CSA will help you get better, faster corner exits, and as a result, you should put more distance between yourself and the following potential punter (or just plain unskilled driver), thus limiting his ability to hit you.

It's all very well saying 'real racing doesn't use assists', but you're not a real racing driver, and unless you're getting top 10 qualifying times (or very close to), you don't have the skills to be one either.

I disagree a bit with that. I usually drive only with CSA at "soft" (sorry I have my HUD in spanish, it says "debil", which means "soft", "weak", whatever) and I get used to drive without any other assist, specially TCS, so you MUST have more caution on the throttle, which make you focus a lot more on the race and to maintain a pace by not doing mistakes.

Said that, one of those Sport races my car started with the TCS at 3 (default setting, it happens sometimes, now I need to check it every time a race starts) and I did not notice that until the two or three first turns, as the car wasn't behaving as I expected and it made me race slower, seeing how the cars behind me started to close the gap. Once I turned TCS off, in just half a lap, I extended the gap for like 0.5 secs.

That day I realized the car behaves more "natural" and reacts perfectly to your inputs having the TCS off. I can't say anything about the other options as I deactivated them the very first day and they've never been on again. And I'm DR: D, constantly growing, finishing within the top10 most of the times.

 

[Stotty]

I am by no means a fast driver. I am a B/S and have raced with all of the guys you have mentioned. They are usually 2 secs quicker than me.

I know yesterday, my unassisted qualifying time at the Ring was a low 1:57. Not fast by any means. I think I could have hit a high 56, I didn't bother trying. The top 10 were hitting 55s.

The top 10 times were in the very low 54's by mid afternoon. The fastest guys were hitting very low 55's in the race.

 

[FazerT]

Question for DS4 players:
That shifts this thread's core question from "these players should stop abusing the assists" to "these assists should not be legal in the first place".

My "core question" was whether the game now gives too much advantage when assists are enabled.

The fact that they are in the game and the game does not allow you to filter out Assist/non-assist races, means they are legal assists and so I don't care who uses them.
I just wondered if people feel they have recently (with patch 1.6 and increased grip) become more powerful and if that makes them overpowered and therefore essential to become competitive and increase your DR. I would be saddened if it were essential to progress for me to enable all assists.
I like the thrill of placing high in a race knowing I consistently drove as close to perfect laps as I was able, not that I drove reasonable enough that the assists could make me fast.

I agree with you, that when competing to win, people will use all legal methods at their disposal as a minimum.

 

[PJTierney]

I just wondered if people feel they have recently (with patch 1.6 and increased grip) become more powerful and if that makes them overpowered and therefore essential to become competitive and increase your DR. I would be saddened if it were essential to progress for me to enable all assists.

I spent most of yesterday at Bathurst in the Gr.4 Mégane and found that I was much more confident on the brakes than I was previously.

Granted, it's been a while since I've driven a Gr.4 FWD (for the past 2 weeks I have been in one-make and Gr.3 races) so I may have just been mis-remembering my initial experience with those cars.