Is Driver Assist over powered now?

  • Thread starter FazerT
  • 157 comments
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Stotty
Then you haven't tried hard enough in qualifying.

Even for the aliens, race pace is c.0.5-1s slower than qualifying pace over 1'30-2'00 lap.

Anyhow, how do you run a faster lap in warm up?... a warm up lap starts after the start line and IME, the amount of time does not allow for 2 full laps (barely 1 lap on most tracks).
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49s lap in the mx5 challenge yesterday so got out and got one flying lap in before the race started. I stand by the fact my race time are broadly the same as qualifying when I get clear air. Mx5 challenge my qualification time was 49.4. every lap in the race was 49. something, although my best was 49.5 so it was slightly slower but nothing major. I spent 3 hours on that track so I can't go any quicker, that is the limit of my talent!
 
Only one way to find out, I'll give it a go after and see. I don't use TCS below gr3 but will try it to see if it helps. It should slow me down but we will see....
FazerT
Great, so TCS users get even more stability on exits! lets hope there's a speed penalty for that increased stability
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FazerT
Try taking TCS off (I'm not convinced TC 1 is any good anyway) and put stability control on. this should help reduce the catastrophic momets significantly :)
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thanks:) will try tonight. prior to 1.06 I was doing OK in the GR3 M6 with no aids (except ABS default). I was managing only 1 or 2 catastrophes a race and they were spinning on corner exit. since 1.06 i just can;t find any rhythm at all.
 
Marckyboy
49s lap in the mx5 challenge yesterday so got out and got one flying lap in before the race started. I stand by the fact my race time are broadly the same as qualifying when I get clear air. Mx5 challenge my qualification time was 49.4. every lap in the race was 49. something, although my best was 49.5 so it was slightly slower but nothing major. I spent 3 hours on that track so I can't go any quicker, that is the limit of my talent!
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It is doable to go faster in the race or warm up but typically race pace is a bit slower. There is definetly a bit less grip in a race then there is in qualifying.
 
JulesDennis
Why?
GT3 cars in rl use both ABS and TC.GTE use ABS.
Many people use either both or (a lot of "fast"/aliens) ABS.Why should those not be able to use those?To prove that they can do it?I mean whats the point.
I would not mind that but I cannot understand this logic.
DR B?Use whatever assist to move up.
DR A?No assists allowed.
What will we gain from that?
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I can see progressively limiting the use of ASM and CSA as you progress.

Limiting ABS and TC makes no sense to me.
 
FazerT
but in race people can weave around in front of you taking the wrong line and adjusting mid-corner etc, and yet they lose no momentum at all.
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I wonder if a lot of that is down to network lag or the level of detail that is provided by the netcode.

Nando deBem
What about... taking assist options out as you rank up?
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As long as they fix the pedal linearity first.

Also, considering most of these cars' real life counterparts have TCS and ABS, I'm not sure it makes sense to force the removal of those assists.
 
I really don't care if people use assists.
What i do care about is, those assists allowing a car that is well out of shape, totally missed a brake point and nearly come to a stop to stay on track, somehow defy all logic/physics and run competitive lap times.
That is no longer an assist... it is a competitive advantage.
Those assists should be there to "save the car", or "help with consistency"... not make it quicker.

There are examples of it not really being any quicker... from guys running clean lines, and that stands to reason.
Then in a race, you see cars totally out of shape, on a regular basis, somehow keeping up. That does not stand to reason.
 
FerrellJ
Wouldn't that do the opposite?
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Well I don't really believe in taking away something beneficial like ABS from A and S players but leaving it for B and below, especially when the DR levels can vary in sport mode races.
 
MikeV27
Well I don't really believe in taking away something beneficial like ABS from A and S players but leaving it for B and below, especially when the DR levels can vary in sport mode races.
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Again, I’m not talking about TCS and ABS.
 
MikeV27
Well I don't really believe in taking away something beneficial like ABS from A and S players but leaving it for B and below, especially when the DR levels can vary in sport mode races.
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Oh, I see what you're saying. I was thinking that restriction would apply to the entire field in these races, not just individual drivers. I forget how much overlap there can be sometimes...
 
MikeV27
So artificially close the skill gap between good and not so good players, no thanks.
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That is currently what Counter Steer and Stability management do already.
In fact, this was the question I originally posted, as to whether these two assists are too much at the moment. Without them, any slight contact or mistake under cornering or braking load and you lose a chunk or time and risk a spin but with these two assists enabled small line errors and contacts have virtually no effect

I believe they are necessary to make the game more accessible, but I'm not sure they need to be as good at what they do as what they currently are.
 
FazerT
That is currently what Counter Steer and Stability management do already.
In fact, this was the question I originally posted, as to whether these two assists are too much at the moment. Without them, any slight contact or mistake under cornering or braking load and you lose a chunk or time and risk a spin but with these two assists enabled small line errors and contacts have virtually no effect

I believe they are necessary to make the game more accessible, but I'm not sure they need to be as good at what they do as what they currently are.
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I have started going through and looking at replays of races I have ran and it really surprises me at the number of racers running CSA and ASM. These range from the top qualifiers in the race to the slowest, DR ranking does not seem to be a factor at all. In some races 85% are running either one or both virtual world aids.

I am in the camp that "realistic real world" type of aids such as ABS or TCS are a part of motorsports and should be allowed. I do not think that virtual world aids such as CSA or ASM should be allowed except in the case of allowing kids or newcomers to be able to control the cars within the absolute lowest beginning ranks and should not be allowed in Daily Sport OR Championship Series races.

If a racer actually depends on these aids to prevent or lessen the time penalties of mistakes over multiple laps so they will not have a lower finishing position or to keep the car on the track then in my opinion it is very possible they do not possess the actual driving skills that their results indicate they have.

As a driver (not a fast one) that that uses only ABS at default and TCS at the lowest setting that prevents sudden no warning spin outs coming out of low speed corners on rear wheel drive cars does that mean that since I am using a lesser amount of game aids that my skills as a virtual world driver are more advanced or possibly actually better than the drivers running the approximate same lap times I am running that I beat over the course of a 10 lap race depending on my own skill rather than game aids to limit the effects to the finishing position of any mistakes made over those ten laps?

I am not even saying that the aids make a driver faster than a lap time they can turn without the aids on BUT if it allows them to run those faster lap times with less risk to spinning out or not as much loss of pace for a slight off line mistake or an off track excursion then it does very possibly artificially increase their race pace over a full race distance and does give them an advantage of not paying the full price for even minor mistakes over a driver that races using only his driving skills to negate the mistake damage.

Also as we compete in more online races that incorporate tire wear and decreasing grip over the course of a race these virtual world aids can become even more prominent as an advantage over a driver that does not use these aids and assumes an even higher risk of a mistake due to the decreasing grip levels while the driver that does incorporate them has the aids as their insurance policy to help them with the changing conditions.

As a driver that does not use any of these virtual world aids it makes me feel even better as I finish in front of drivers or very close behind that are using extra help to race at the same pace and maintain position over a 10 lap race with tire wear.

I would like to see these aids not allowed in on line racing. For those that say all aids should be eliminated then that is okay as well, I will adjust and we will just see slower lap times from the majority of racers.
 
Driver aids are my saving grace in GT Sport because I cannot stay on the road without them.
 
I'm not sure but i think driving sideways the car with traction control reduced were better before 1.06 patch
 
A new idea!

What if:

You can use whatever aids you want, but using ASM or CSA gives you no DR points?
It would really mean you have to get used to the car, so you’re not progressing as a driver and should not improve your DR.

I think this would make people stop using them.
 
Be4you
I am totally agree with you. I’m driving without aids, and before the patch I created a good gap when I drive smooth and clean. Now it’s almost impossible to create a gap, if u are not lucky enough to start at pole position and get a good gap in the first corner. I have notice after patch 1.06 ppl are racing much more aggressive, before the patch aggressive driving usually made you crash sooner or later.
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Why would you race without aids? I never understood this. I get it in qualification but not during a race. Too many variables. You really just get self satisfaction out of saying you drive with no aids? Even real racers use aids.
 
Baconink
Why would you race without aids? I never understood this. I get it in qualification but not during a race. Too many variables. You really just get self satisfaction out of saying you drive with no aids? Even real racers use aids.
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He says that to develop an idea, so he can better express his point of view.
 
Baconink
Why would you race without aids? I never understood this. I get it in qualification but not during a race. Too many variables. You really just get self satisfaction out of saying you drive with no aids? Even real racers use aids.
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I think the aids available to professional races are TCS and ABS but I'm not aware of any steering correction or skid recovery system, which are the ones we are mostly talking about.
Also, it always used to be a little faster without TCS [not tried it since the patch] although you are correct about the risks in racing being higher if you make a mistake, but that's the whole point of racing; to go as fast as possible without making any mistakes. Given the physical risks are zero [pain & injury or expensive mechanical] in sim racing, then some people are more likely to risk not using any aids for that additional speed and control.

The car feels very different when using aids; I much prefer the feel without. Although I am experimenting with using the aids, I'm currently not seeing huge improvements in lap times or finishing positions.
 
I don't like the update patches from 1.06 at all. I use a DS4, only use ABS, am very precise with the inputs and have not had any issues with the handing until now. To me it feels like there is now an underlying assist on all of the time. Drifting feels unrealistic and there is no snap back back on the steering at all and the steering roll-out seems particularly slow (watch the steering angle red dot and see how it acts oddly in comparison to the cars movements) This is evident on replays - the front wheel movements don't correlate to the cars physical movement especially when transitioning from a left drift to right or vice versa with the cars appearing to straighten up whilst the front wheels are still resetting to their centre position after a corner. The cars also seem to pivot on a more centre axis rather than one nearer the front wheels. This has really irritated me and I suspect they have simplified the physics engine to cater for online lag and less experienced players. I love watching replays of a good clean race but now I can't help noticing that the cars dont seem to move as realistically as before. If I had my say I would ask that the pre-update 1.06 physics were returned as a 'pro' option and the updated physics selectable as an 'arcade' option. In sport mode the lobbies could be separated accordingly. I love the GT series and like the fact they are trying to improve and evolve GT Sport, but I wish they would stop dicking around with the physics which have always been one of the main selling points in my book. If you are reading this PD. Please please please put the the physics back to how they were
 
FazerT
....Seems to me like you should get a limited time use of Driver Assists before the game locks you out of them. Or there should be separate Sport Mode races for cars with no DA. A bit like a "Pro" mode or something. Maybe TCS could be allowed as I think this has a penalty to the responsiveness of the car and can be beaten by a good driver without, but the system correcting serious handling errors should not be a part of any competitive racing game...
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This!!

I would much rather get beat by a driver who is faster because of talent than by a driver who uses Driving Assists for stability.
 
VFOURMAX1
I have started going through and looking at replays of races I have ran and it really surprises me at the number of racers running CSA and ASM. These range from the top qualifiers in the race to the slowest, DR ranking does not seem to be a factor at all. In some races 85% are running either one or both virtual world aids.

I am in the camp that "realistic real world" type of aids such as ABS or TCS are a part of motorsports and should be allowed. I do not think that virtual world aids such as CSA or ASM should be allowed except in the case of allowing kids or newcomers to be able to control the cars within the absolute lowest beginning ranks and should not be allowed in Daily Sport OR Championship Series races.

If a racer actually depends on these aids to prevent or lessen the time penalties of mistakes over multiple laps so they will not have a lower finishing position or to keep the car on the track then in my opinion it is very possible they do not possess the actual driving skills that their results indicate they have.

As a driver (not a fast one) that that uses only ABS at default and TCS at the lowest setting that prevents sudden no warning spin outs coming out of low speed corners on rear wheel drive cars does that mean that since I am using a lesser amount of game aids that my skills as a virtual world driver are more advanced or possibly actually better than the drivers running the approximate same lap times I am running that I beat over the course of a 10 lap race depending on my own skill rather than game aids to limit the effects to the finishing position of any mistakes made over those ten laps?

I am not even saying that the aids make a driver faster than a lap time they can turn without the aids on BUT if it allows them to run those faster lap times with less risk to spinning out or not as much loss of pace for a slight off line mistake or an off track excursion then it does very possibly artificially increase their race pace over a full race distance and does give them an advantage of not paying the full price for even minor mistakes over a driver that races using only his driving skills to negate the mistake damage.

Also as we compete in more online races that incorporate tire wear and decreasing grip over the course of a race these virtual world aids can become even more prominent as an advantage over a driver that does not use these aids and assumes an even higher risk of a mistake due to the decreasing grip levels while the driver that does incorporate them has the aids as their insurance policy to help them with the changing conditions.

As a driver that does not use any of these virtual world aids it makes me feel even better as I finish in front of drivers or very close behind that are using extra help to race at the same pace and maintain position over a 10 lap race with tire wear.

I would like to see these aids not allowed in on line racing. For those that say all aids should be eliminated then that is okay as well, I will adjust and we will just see slower lap times from the majority of racers.
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THIS!

I've never used aids in racing games. I just turn them all off and learn to play the game without them. Now, since I've been playing GTS I did the same thing except for ABS (pedal linearity issues forced me to keep ABS on. I can usually qualify in the top 5 or 6 with only ABS on. After reading this I turned on CSA and ASM to check, TC still off and ABS on default. I immediately qualified in the top 3 and place top 3 in just about any race. These assists (CSA and ASM) are NOT balanced at all!
 

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