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Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by aureliocr, Nov 27, 2017.
It's all relative. The skill gap will be exactly the same.
Agreed on that Point. I think we should also not forget the all important dollar. In the end it's about the money and increasing brand awareness to create more money. If if the target market is broadened by dumbing down the game, mission accomplished from PD's perspective. You only have to look at the growth of E-Sports, now actually televised in conjunction with F1.
There will be a lot of coin thrown around in the coming years to get more market share, they do not want a game the average punter puts down after 30 minutes because he could not be bothered with practice or to get educated like we do. As you move towards the more hardcore end of the spectrum the smaller your community and power will be, just economics.....
As I said I agree with you and would prefer the game to be a little more technical and realistic. I think that combined with the graphics and " Feel " it would be the ultimate game....Cheers, see you on the track, I will be the guy up the back!
Its hard to notice what the difference is, but if they are working in combination you can feel in lower speed corners that the tyres are actually doing something other than hold the car up, which is what it feels like in GT. PC2 and AC both do this very well. Its a subtle effect and I'm not saying I'm some kind of super sensitive driver, but GT is definitely lacking in this department.
No, not at all. I was disagreeing with Cjammer who believes the update is somehow closing the skill gap.
I've only had a chance to race a couple races under the new update but my first impression is that I like it. The tires feel like they are more connected to the road now. If that means faster lap times so be it, but that's not why I like it. It feels more "real" to me now than before, that's what I like about it.
Racing tyres have also changed but the changes were more subtle.
Which cars and how fast? Race cars are now easier to drive slow, they are harder to drive fast because the tyres are more realistic. It doesn't bridge any gaps because everyone is faster. If anything I've been further off the pace so far because I'm finding the cars harder to drive at the limit.
That depends on the corner and you can do that in real life. Also are you doing this with traction control off? In the Viper I can't floor it out of sharp slow corners and I can't even floor it on the last corner of Nurburgring GP.
I don't believe you are turning really fast lap times so how would you know? Are you telling me it is really easy to get on the leaderboard or even within a second of those times? For me driving at that pace is now much harder and more realistic. Driving slowly off the pace is easier but it is also more realistic. Watch real life racing, when a fast driver does a conservative lap he doesn't lose grip anywhere, he never locks up the brakes, at no time is he in danger of losing grip and he still runs within a second or two of his fastest lap times. Then when the fastest driver runs his fastest times he isn't sliding in every corner, he doesn't skid into every corner under brakes, he doesn't spin his wheels and constantly get sideways. Any time he does any of these things commentators will point it out and call it a "moment" because this on the edge driving is rare in real life with modern tyres. When they do lose grip it often results in a crash or an off track experience and can be very scary and even dangerous. GT Sport is now closer to that.
Maybe but I haven't played it enough to have formed a detailed opinion yet. I would like it to be as realistic as possible. I'm sick of games pretending to be sims with progressive racing tyres that slide all over the place. Some street car tyres do that in real life and some classic racing tyres do that but most modern racing tyres are not as progressive and forgiving as most sims portray. Many race tyres have a lot of grip and very little warning of sudden grip loss and are very unforgiving compared to what we have been given in many racing sims. Then at the other end you have family car tyres that are very progressive and with the correct tyre pressure will slide in a predictable and easily controllable way and then there are a range of real world tyres between that vary in grip and vary in how progressive and easy to slide they are.
So I am not sure if the tyres are accurate yet so I can't say for sure if I think they need more grip but I know from my limited testing so far while I was very tired I thought the tyres are now better than they were and much more realistic.
That isn't going to happen at the pointy end but I think you'll see less of a variation in lap times among slower drivers. If anything I've been having more trouble keeping my relative performance gap and I'm not slow. But I think slow guys should now find it easier to run similar lap times to other slow guys and this would be realistic because the performance spread previous to the update was ridiculous, I think we can now expect a spread that is closer to what we see in real life racing. Again because the sim is now more realistic than it was before the build.
And I just want to be sure it is understood I'm not claiming it is now perfect. I have only briefly tested it while very tired. But so far in the few cars I tested I thought it was mostly a nice improvement. So far I have found one thing I think might be an issue that I'll need to test more to be sure. But it did seem to me that the cars drove differently in Arcade mode TT's than they did in the daily race qualifying, I don't want to make that claim yet without testing it further. Hopefully I imagined it and I'm wrong.
Lol, oh god, save the lesson on how race cars work bud, I've been watching various forms of racing for over 20 years and have been racing online via many different games for nearly 10. I don't think you are driving fast if you think they are harder to drive on the edge. If you so please I can post the email invitation I received from PD 3 years ago to an elimination round for the GT Academy in New York City after the time trial they had at Spa in the GTR. Give me a break dude. I'm not even gonna get into the rest of your wall of text because you have no idea what you are talking about, but I just had to respond to that tid bit, Lmao.
Pulling 1.35.2s at Dragon Trail Gr3 RSS, tyres definitely seem to be more "connected" to the surface, little more grip but my best time is only a 0.8s quicker than before.
Did a little N200 racing in a GT86 on some SM tyres and that felt LOADS Better than before. Loving the update hope more N200 racing happens. People are still loving Gr3 lol, it's a nice getaway from Gr3 for me.
You're 22 but have been watching racing for over 20 years and have been racing online for 10 So are you making the leaderboards on GT Sport? If not how far off are you? How about you tell me your PSN and I'll add you so I can see how fast you are, PM is fine.
The only time you lose grip is when you leave the ground now!
I’ll tell you where EVERY racing “sim” has it VERY VERY WRONG. Tires! If Formula One cars can run 20 laps on their softest non-wet tires available, how is it they only last 5 laps in these so called “sims”! Oh, and then they can get 50 laps out of the Super Softs!
All of this whining about super grip needs to just stop.
Your a god....................
Well, I do know that balance seems to have shifted again. The light weight FF or AWD cars seem to be dominating the time charts as they did in 1.4. VW’s and Fiat’s are pulling on anything even in their slip stream.
I'm certainly late to the controversy train this time around. After extensive driving with this version of GT Sport I'm enjoying it very much. In my experience before the road cars seemed like they were driving on ice. The game feels much more natural now.
While I agree they haven't nailed tyres yet your question is really easy to answer. In real life GT3 cars can double stint tyres fairly easily but they can also completely destroy a set of tyres in just a few laps if they push them to the limit. Like I said I agree with you that sims haven't got it right and even though this kind of behaviour has been modelled somewhat in certain sims with the ability to get better life out of tyres with better driving I haven't seen it implemented in a realistic way and the end result I see is that even in Endurance racing people don't really conserve their tyres and the fastest way is to drive fast. Fuel conservation is often a thing but I haven't seen effective tyre conservation strategies being used.
The kind of variable tyre wear feature that is implemented in GTS and AC has always bothered me a little, I would prefer it if they simply modelled realistic tyre wear and had the ability to turn it off if they want. And in this game I haven't yet worked out what the most realistic setting is but I think I understand why it is this way, I think because there is a focus on sprint racing they want endurance style tyre wear but over an accelerated time period. There are some odd features to this game such as that and the implementation of damage and despite my love for other areas in the game I do wish some of these non realistic areas were improved.
Geeeezz...I'm having a bad experience after the update. Used to have times 2 - 2.5s slower than the top 10.
Raced the Gr4 Dragontail and my times were 5 seconds slower. Tried daily Gr3 Nurb and it was the same.
Cars are very agressive out of the corners. Im DR B and SR S. Use TC 1 for FR cars and 2 for MR. T300rs wheel
on the debate of the skill gap being closed or not it should be easy enough to tell by now as the patch has been out for a couple of days. Have the top 10 times increased by 2 seconds as most are suggesting they are improving.
I suspect the gap will remain the same to the aliens times but there is an argument that there has to be an absolute limit and perhaps it is easier for more people to get close to it.
i am travelling at moment so no PS4 until Thursday night. Have to say I am desperate to try post patch to see what I experience.
Because I don't care about the leaderboards, and my name on here isn't the same as my PSN (wow who knew such a thing was possible), but since you keep insisting, I just set the 9th fastest time at the current GR3 Nurburgring GP time trial in the Porsche. 1:55.414 and I'm sure if I really took some time to practice it I could break the top 3....probably not first because that 1:54.496 is nuts, but regardless, took me all of 15 minutes to get on your sacred leaderboard. I'll even save the replay for you on the incase that I get bumped out of the top 10 wouldn't want you to miss out on it
And btw, I started watching CART (what is now IndyCar, incase you didn't know....) and NASCAR racing when I was 4, so, yeah, 18 going on 19 years. And yeah, I've been racing online since 2008
FWIW that time wouldn't get you on my leaderboard. They are running 53's and 54's on mine and your 1st place would be 4th on mine.
Only got a chance for one Gr.4 race with the F type, notice the tires feel beefier and stickier to the ground and the car is more composed coming out of corners. The car sort of feels heavier but I believe that is due to getting more feedback from the tires. Handling model is similar and in my opinion improved. Tires don't feel detached to surface and slippery anymore. You can of course still easily spin out going on grass or curbs. This update won't make anyone a better driver. It isn't any easier. It might be possible to do a bit better if the car puts power down more efficiently.
Nice picture. Do you drive for Ford? It felt a lot better after the patch in corner exits. And also the Force Feedback felt better to me on the G29. I also seen the world fastest on dragontrail was 1,44,xx and that may be 1 sec faster than last time?
But still the Ford cant completely keep up with the others speed. Porsche for example was so much faster in every corner its a joke lol .
In real life racing you often hear drivers say they "have no grip", yet their times are within a second of their ultimate best. It's all relative, a track can rubber in between sessions, and everyone finds 1.5s. The best are still at the head of the field.
Like you say, the "feel" of a car can be much more planted, but the ultimate time gains are pretty modest.
On the forum I am reading a lot of complains about how the handling has changed with the update.
Some people saying that now they are 2-4 seconds faster and they are now flying over bends, other saying that they are 1-2 seconds slower and they cannot feel the braking anymore.
I don't know to which extent all this is true, or if is caused by a simple need of re-balancing themselves to the new tires' physics.
I hope PD didn't really mess up the handling and the general driving feeling, as it was one of the strongest point of GT Sport.
Talking specifically about the pad, the way everything was ''delivered'' to the player in every moment of the race was (I hope still is) amazing, and was placing GT Sport miles ahead of any other game (always related to the pad, the wheels are a different story).
Yesterday I only raced few laps with the Mazda Atenza Gr.4 (which is a new car for me, so I have no feedback from before) just to get the Daily Car Bonus, tonight I will give a test using a combo that is very familiar to me: Nissan GTR Gr.4 (Minkihl setup, BOP, Tires: Hard, no TCS, no ABS, no Assists) on Kyoto - Yawagima.
If anyone wants to add me on PSN, nick: Zeitoss
There is a very notable change in the rally physics. The cars now feel as though they are digging in an and gripping rather than sliding on ice. Race cars on slick tyres are much of a muchness, while road tyres now give the kind of grip you'd expect from modern compounds and constructions.
Depends what tyres they're trying to sim. In touring cars (BTCC) tyres go off really quickly and can be run too fast and go off earlier.
In BSB (British Superbike) the same happens
As you say in F1 they last forever.
hich is: "which racing genre is a SIM trying
Sorry delete previous post !
My opinion based on an hour testing various cars in qualifying for Nurb GP grp3 daily, then running a 10 lap race...
Cars have a lot more front end grip, but rear traction hasn't changed massively... so you can carry much more entry and mid corner speed, but getting on the gas, even with TC on 2, remains broadly similar.
I was running low 54's in quali, around 1s slower in the race - there's less grip in the race, which I assume is a function of tyre wear being on. From what I can find, lap times seem similar to those achieved in equivalent cars in iRacing/AC/PC, but are a few seconds quicker than IRL.
Also tried the NSX grp3 in the Circuit Challenge, and was over 2s quicker (1.59.6 vs 2'01.7).
Personally, I like the changes. Feels like I can lean on the front much harder than before.
After trying the Gr.3 Nur GP race, I don't think much has changed. The GT-R GT3 is still tricky to get the power down using a DS4 (Right stick for pedals). My fastest lap was a 2.03 and it was scruffy, I can't seem to get the power down smoothly in the first complex or out of the chicane and when I tried to be more gentle with the stick I was losing 3-4 secs easily. I generally race the Gr.4 (which is now even more of a pleasure to drive thanks to 1.06) so it takes a bit of getting used to when I dip in with the GT3. I don't think being turbo'd helps as the power curve tends to have a bit of a double kick (low down torque then boost). For comparison I've done a few TA's in the R8 and being NA it's much easier to control the power, but then it has PD's MR physics and I just don't have the reflexes to get a fast consistant lap out of it without spinning.
It's a shame there's no option to control the throttle sensitivity for the controller seperately to to the steering. I find I prefer a slightly more responsive steer but would love to dull the throttle response down a bit so I can be a bit more heavy handed with the stick to make up for it's lack of finesse.
If anything I'd say the braking felt weaker coming into turn 1 and using my previous braking marker (just after the double cones) I was overshooting most times.
Braking points were about the same for me vs last time I drove Nurb GP... which combined with similar exit traction, makes me think the primary change was to lateral grip.
Try the RSR in grp 3... it's stable on turn in/mid corner, normally aspirated, and has quite high gearing... so although it's optimum to use 1st out of the 1st corner, you could use 2nd gear without too much loss. There are couple of other corners, where 2nd is optimum, but 3rd wouldn't lose you too much time. It's a very nice car to drive.
I dis a couple of laps in the GT-R at Interlagos Circuit Challenge last night - it has a lot less rear traction than the RSR IMO.