Is GT Sport a wrong choice? FM vs GT war issue

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by Mati_Blaster, Nov 11, 2018.

  1. Groundfish

    Groundfish Premium

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    Well, we can agree to disagree.
    Driving a late model racer straight out of the pits onto a short oval on cold slicks wasn’t like ice imo like in pc2.
    I guess I am not prepared to go into another title and learn it’s physics model and ffb effects and what they mean.
    The game I play has more than enough for me-it is just annoying reading the opinions often pushed aggressively by others (not yourself) about how much better other titles are. I’ve tried several and my personal takeaway has been poor. If you’d like to recommend a great car track combo for pc2 I am all ears-anything maybe gt4 and below.
    I certainly haven’t experienced anything worth writing home as of yet.
     
  2. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    No problem at all.

    My personal goto is Formula Rookie at Oulton Park (full circuit).

    Are you using a wheel or pad, as if it's a wheel I'm also happy to share my setup.
     
  3. Groundfish

    Groundfish Premium

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    I’m on t300.
    I run a light wheel though, so...I’d be curious though anyway what you like.
    I —-seem—- to have gotten the ffb usable, but always curious as there’s basically infinite combos there...
    Anyways cheers for your thoughts and help.
     
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  4. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    Ride 3 has me hooked for this evening, but will dig them out and post them.
     
  5. McLaren

    McLaren Premium

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    Funny. That's exactly what McLaren Formula 1 has used Forza for.
    And they're doing it again.
     
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  6. simsimsheree

    simsimsheree

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    The consensus seems to be that wet weather is nixed in GTS because they can't get it perfect. To which I call rubbish! They haven't got dry weather perfect either...

    Standing starts are still Looney Tunes Roadrunner/Scooby-Doo crazy burnouts. Braking still seems way too stable, low speed traction still feels off.

    Not to mention, they actually DO have some wet events, and everything seems quite acceptable in those. PD's big mistake is to include those at all if they want to preserve the lie that the console isn't capable of it (especially when PC2 manages quite well).

    Does PC2 get it perfect... No. But not so bad they chose to not include it. Does it cause a bit of frame-drop at times? Yes. Especially on the vanilla PS4. But we get those a bit in GTS. Has it stopped PD from releasing the dry track game? No!

    But the loss of weather and time (and content!) from GT6 has made GTS a huge step backwards in all areas except dry track racing for me (and even there, I'm not convinced about the new tire and braking models). Is the visual eye candy worth it? For me, on a PS4Pro and 4K, the answer is a hearty no! 4K PC2 is a huge step up in visuals from GT6 without losing weather and time. That's all I ever wanted!

    PC2 is GT7... :bowdown:
     
  7. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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  8. beyond72

    beyond72

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    OK it's an old Forza game but still interesting seeing this unbiased review of a Forza game from a long time die hard GT fan.

     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2018
  9. ImaRobot

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    That a different game, with a completely different focus, can do it doesn't really hold much. They aim for different priorities, one game being physics, the other being visuals. I would imagine that both aspects can be pretty taxing on a system that's why they both have trade-off's with the direction they take.
    It's really not, when you actually think of the type of game that traditional GT was. Pcars2 is more in-line with GTS than it is with Past-GT's.
     
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  10. simsimsheree

    simsimsheree

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    Both games chose a compromise approach. The difference is in the shading, but GTS could no doubt be FAR better visually at the cost of even worse handling and physics, and PC2 could have a FAR better physics package if visuals didn't matter at all... The difference is a lot smaller than you make out. Compared to GT6, PC2 is a huge visual step up, without loss of features. The price PD paid for just a BIT more graphic fidelity is far too high, IMHO.

    And sadly, no. PC2 has no esports mode, the entire online system revolves around user run lobbies, just like GT6. And PC2's career mode is quite extensive and detailed, but with a far better sense of progression than GT6/GTS's.

    For those that played GT6 a lot, I hate to say it, but PC2 is the successor, not GTS. It's main failing is it didn't get the player base that stick stubbornly to GT, despite its failings. Online is rather threadbare these days. But the AI make up for that. Adjust to their idiosyncrasies, and you can get a challenge that simply does not exist on GTS, either against AI nor the barely better than Forza online base.

    Bottom line, with GTS's wet events already more than acceptable, and PC2's highly elaborate system working quite acceptably, that's the proof that excusing PD by blaming the console simply doesn't hold water.
     
  11. Rinsky

    Rinsky Premium

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    How is that game? I've really been thinking about picking it up.
     
  12. 05XR8

    05XR8

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    The "war" just got real, with Porsche esports dumping the Forza program for GT Sports' esports program.
     
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  13. FoRiZon

    FoRiZon

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    Wait what? Any news for this?
     
  14. ImaRobot

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    What's the relevance to GT6? I'm not sure what comparing it to a game that's a generation old, and saying PC2 looks better than it, has much to do with GTS? Like I said, they both make compromises to get to the area they desire. From modeling and lighting being the forefront for GTS, and physics being the same for PC2.

    That it's ran by user made lobbies in no way makes it the same. Esports as well means little in that regard as well. GTS and PC2 very much run in the same vein as each other, with obvious differences. GTS is just a more mainstream PC2 with a wider appeal and a more forgiving physics system, yet they both still run off homologated racing. Whereas GT6 was basically Pokemon for cars, and less about any strict form of motorsports.

    I don't understand how PCars2 is anymore a successor than GTS is. Neither really is, to be honest. The only one close to GT6 is now on a completely different console, now. I do agree about the Ai though, always has been top notch compared to the alternatives. Forza's would provide a better challenge if they were actually fast, but as it sits, unbeatable is too slow as well.

    No, it's really not. Weather was an issue before because of their insistence on visual fidelity, and this generation seems to pushed that notion to an even farther level. I also notice that the QC on GT has been upped, and they seem to not want to push to far this time and aimed for a more stable framerate this time around. In my opinion, at least.

    PC in general seemed to not worry to much if FPS are locked or not, but aim for it being as high as possible - that is what I think helps with giving them that bump visually. Both games are visually stunning, but GT has always put too much attention to detail in the visual side of things, sometimes to a fault.

    Which really says little about the ridiculous war people have with saying which game is better than the other.
     
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  15. FPV MIC

    FPV MIC

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    It seems to me that a lot of people don't take into account these games are having to run on the base PS4 as well. PCars 2 on the base PS4 with rain and high stress situations is really not that good (in a visuals only sense) so I can only imagine how bad GT Sport would be (visually) under the same circumstances.
     
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  16. DodgySyrup

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    I believe GT is inherently a superior product.

    I think it looks better, feels better, has a more varied (if numerically smaller) vehicle pool (of stuff you actually want to race) , and has a more sophisticated online component.

    Plus, nothing beats that unique Gran Turismo handling model in my eyes.
     
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  17. ImaRobot

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    While you're not incorrect to feel that since its all subjective, this part in particular isn't really accurate. Forza, by a long shot takes that cake. That's to be expected with a game that has 2-3 times as much cars as any other game.
     
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  18. Z01D

    Z01D

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    Well car and track wise Forza makes Gran Turismo look bad, but everything else Gran Turismo

    Forza feels like Need for Speed
     
  19. Northstar

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    Porsche isn't "dumping" anyone, they're seemingly trying to make up for the EA deal by doing special promotions with every major gaming developer.
     
  20. rex1825

    rex1825

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    ...you can always download Forza 7 demo on PC and check it out, you don't need to get a xBox for that... also there are ways to get FM7 full game on PC and if you like it, you can buy it... later on if you buy eventually xBox, game will be in your library because it is one of the play anywhere titles...

    BTW if you are looking at the weather and change of the time, it is marginal (but it is still there), there are no different tire compounds to compensate weather effects... fuel and tire usage is just there, no big game changer at all, nothing to worry about it... and change of day time is limited to 2-3 hours like from evening to sunset etc, there is no true 24 hour cycle...
    And at the end, I have a feeling that FM7 is a drifting game... at least to me... not that it is bad, I have both of the games, but simply it is a bit more far from what GT is giving in ways of simcade...
     
  21. ShakesMcQueen

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    Have you actually played Forza Motorsport in the last few years? It feels nothing like Need for Speed. Even the Horizon games have a more sophisticated and realistic handling model than the NFS series. The Crew games are the closest I've seen to the NFS model.

    Super GT (since multiple people here have cited him as some sort of authority, for some reason), actually said that he slightly prefers Forza's physics model, because he thinks you can "feel" the uniqueness of each car more tangibly when driving them. This is purely subjective, and one man's opinion, but it demonstrates that it's not quite the massive gulf it's being portrayed as.

    If someone else prefers GT's handling and physics, that's completely fine. Both games are fine.
     
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  22. SlipZtrEm

    SlipZtrEm Administrator

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    FWIW, I reviewed both games on a base PS4 before moving to a Pro last Black Friday. While the visuals improved with both, I'd say it was GT Sport that was smoother from an FPS perspective on the base hardware. The fluctuating frame rate of the PS3 era games drove me nuts, but there were only a tiny handful of very quick variations when I did the review.

    Both are better on the Pro, naturally, but PCARS2 still can have dips, whereas I'm pretty sure I've only had one with GT Sport (a major pileup in Sport Mode). The big difference IMO is that PCARS2 gives you the option to overwork the system, by having a huge field of AI. IIRC, there was a post on the official forums actually telling people to knock the number down a bit to improve performance.

    I'm not sure if I consider that option a positive or negative. It's good that players have choices, but it paints the game in a negative light if it can't keep up, at least on consoles. It's a bit like PD's decision to limit the camera from getting too close to Standards in GT5. I totally understood why PD did it — Standards looked like crap — but it actually sort of drew more attention.

    That's (possibly intentionally) misleading. The Japanese regional Porsche esport will use GT Sport, which makes sense when you consider there's practically zero Xbox market penetration over there.

    If anything, Porsche is embracing every developer now that the EA shackles are off. It just chose SMS to be the partner for the 992's first digital experience, and there's an iRacing cup that's just been announced too. The eCup used Assetto Corsa in Italy, and there was a recent FM7 challenge too, where the winner could earn a test drive.

    It's all subjective. Personally, I'd prefer the 800-strong list of cars going from pre-war classics, through four different decades of F1, by way of Group B legends, dozens of Porsches, Ferraris, and Lambos (each), as well as all the most modern metal, than a 200-strong list where almost 20% of the lineup are flights of fancy — and that's before we get to the cars made for the primary racing classes of the game, which by dint of those classes, are quite a lot similar to each other.

    The quality of FM7's car lineup plus the quantity makes it practically untouchable IMO. Certainly this gen, but almost even across any. I do miss a chunk of cars from GT6's lineup, but they were largely Standards, and I'd rather not have those back until they're redone in full hi-def glory like the Supra and 22B. I also miss some of FM4's, of which T10/Playground are also slowly doing the same thing.

    I said something roughly similar when I drove Porsches at the PEC Silverstone last year. But it applied to a very specific portion of the driving: the drifting. The transition from grip to slip felt largely like it does in FM7, but the threshold was obviously much lower in real life thanks to the low-friction surface. Cars have a sense of weight to them in FM7 which I think is one of its big strengths. I was also lucky enough to drive a Veloster N at full clip on a race track last month, and that behaved similar to the one in-game (though not on Thunderhill, since it's criminally under-represented in video games). I find front drive easier to judge between virtual and real, and the N gave the same sort of "no sir I do not like this" response if you dropped it into a corner too fast. :p

    GT Sport feels best to me in Gr.4, especially that Cayman, but sadly I can't compare it to the real world (at least not yet). Gr.3 gets a little glassy, and it can sometimes be hard to know when you've stepped over the limit based on feedback. Though, I will say, whatever settings were being used at the World Finals, I liked them. The wheel gave pretty clear notice on when I was overloading the tires, from either end.

    Both games get certain aspects of driving quite right, and I think rather tellingly, neither one goes deep into the numbers side. I'm not saying the devs aren't busy driving themselves crazy with all manner of equations, but the feel is important. We're never going to get a replacement for the seat-o-the-pants-o-meter, so there's some things that will need to be fudged slightly to make up for that. With both FM7 and GT Sport, I can jump into a rig (or behind a pad) and feel at home pretty quickly. Other titles sometimes require a lot of pre-race fiddling to get there — sometimes for each car!
     
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  23. Nielsen

    Nielsen

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    Don't listen to comments saying one game is better than the other unless it's followed by a decent elaboration why. Otherwise it smells like meaningless bias. Both games have their strengths and weaknesses. Ultimately it's a matter of personal taste and whatever qualities you prioritize.
     
  24. queleuleu

    queleuleu

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    If you want to put a spoiler on your Nissan R34. GTsport is a wrong choice unless this change in a near future.
     
  25. SDSPOWER01

    SDSPOWER01

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    Reading the topics title I would say neither is a best choice.
    It comes down to which style of gaming you want as both delivers some serious online racing (some better structured than the other), and outstanding visual graphic and vehicle simulations.

    Personally I would prefer Forza for it's variety in customization and tuning, in which past GT seemed to have had a much simpler one.
    But as of now Forza is my game to go for customization and tuning.

    In the past I would have also prefered Forza for audio department especially in the vehicle/engine sound part.
    But as things go now after Forza 6 many of the sound have been dramatized to even being wrong/ inaccurate.
    So my go to game for a much realistic and accurate sound is GT Sport (Though it is still a bit dull compared to other titles but still enjoyable).

    Graphics is not a big issue for me as both games offers insane level of detail and visual representation of real life.
    GT Sport seems to have a much better representation of realistic lighting, materials and shaders in scapes but not too far compared to Forza's autovista mode ( I mean to be able to open the hood and trunks and see the engine parts detailed is a 10+ for me ).

    As for physics simulation I think both offers a decent physicall simulation of the vehicles in suspension and tire modelling...but as many has point out GT is much more simple and not as complex as Forza, you cannot adjust tire pressures neither change tire sizes which would affect grip levels.
    Sometimes it feels like the cars in GT Sport dont have realistic dampening levels.
    And what I mean by this is the cars don't bounce or rebound (hope I explained it well) as much as the other titles would do (this is clear to see in rally tracks when cars performs jumps)
    So all in all Forza seems to have this much better simulated than GT.

    I could go on but the main point is that neither game is better in a objective point of view but only as a subjective one and boils down to which style of gaming you would preffer.
    And this is just my SUBJECTIVE opinion on this matter.
     
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  26. simsimsheree

    simsimsheree

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    The relevance? I guess my assertion that PC2 is GT7! The compromises PC2 made visually didn't stop it being visually a huge bump over GT6, which is what you would expect from a next gen console title. As SlipZtrEm points out, graphically it's pretty good on PS4Pro when you don't push grid size to the max. Everybody compared GTS to GT6 when it came out. More, IMO, should have compared PC2 to it, and probably have been left happier!

    You have missed my point (and others). Which was that PC2 is the logical successor to GT6 (not GTS). If you found GT6 to be Pokemon for cars, that's simply the way YOU played it. There was a plethora of highly organized online rooms, muscle car racing, race car racing, you name it. There are plenty of ways to play PC2 other than GT3/GTE. Road cars on road tracks, vintage rally on RX tracks, or road tracks. But the primary thing in common is that USERS pick them, not the studio.

    PC2 follows GT6 in having an extensive offline mode, and online is entirely user based. You can find rooms as different as oval racing in Indy cars to hypercars on imaginary desert tracks with no rules! GTS's esports bias has lost all that!

    Weather wasn't perfect visually on GT6 either. But good enough to be included. As I said, the mania about stable framerates and high detail at the cost of everything that made the GT franchise the market leader is an enormous blunder. And that makes PC2 the logical successor. At least more than any other game out there on the PS4.
     
  27. SleezyBigSlim

    SleezyBigSlim

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    This is about fans of these games wanting their game of choice being recognized as the best. This is especially evident by the thread being about GT Sport and Forza but the PC2 people felt left out and that game was added to the mix. Play which one you like the best I say and don't be bothered by other people's opinions on the game you like.
     
  28. CLowndes888

    CLowndes888

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    We aren't comparing apples to apples here. Project Cars and Gran Turismo have taken different approaches to their games, and that's fine. Project Cars is in NO WAY a successor to GT6; the structure is completely different. You can't buy or sell vehicles in Project Cars, nor can you modify them or earn money to get more. Also, your lack of knowledge when it comes to Project Cars is hilarious. It actually does have community events and e-Sports competitions which you can race in; although it isn't as accessible as GT Sport. But it's still there nevertheless. Project Cars 2 is not a massive visual step up unfortunately, it's about the same as Project Cars 1. In fact one such example where Project Cars 1 is better is on Dubai International - there is a skyline of Dubai, whereas in Project Cars 2 there isn't one. Riddle me that.