And when I see a huge list of games that were originally planned for 2009 being pushed to 2010 I start to wonder whether this is a business move as opposed to technical difficulties.
This "setback" is not due to polish and perfection. It is simply due to PD biting off way more than they can chew, and getting too wrapped up in a case of diminishing returns.
I've never heard so much whining in my entire life, when will people realize that the longer a game is in developement with a good team, the better quality and more polished it becomes. With this delay, PD can:
- Perfect the damage model, add it to more cars.
- Optimize the graphics.
- Optimize online performance.
- Bug test any glitches.
- Add many little details (as seen in the pit crews and paddle shift animations in the new videos).
- Weather/Night tracks?
- Improved sound?
This "setback" is not due to polish and perfection. It is simply due to PD biting off way more than they can chew, and getting too wrapped up in a case of diminishing returns.
THIS IS CLASSIC!There is no way this isn't going to sound like flamebate, but... after looking at your list...
I don't own a PS3.
You really lack in the comprehension department. Name one developer which had to create a game in the midst of another game's development cycle, and it not have an influence. A full game mind you, not a minigame like R&C Quest For Booty.This "setback" is not due to polish and perfection. It is simply due to PD biting off way more than they can chew, and getting too wrapped up in a case of diminishing returns.
THIS IS CLASSIC!![]()
So an idea 💡 lets release GT5 never 💡 so it will be perfect when it´s done 💡
So why is it OK that they launch in March 2010 in Japan? By your reckoning, they should delay it by another 12 months at least so that they can perfect the damage model even more, add even more cars, eliminate more glitches, improve the sound even more... When does it end? Why not add 20 more tracks, put the full F1 series in there...
This "setback" is not due to polish and perfection. It is simply due to PD biting off way more than they can chew, and getting too wrapped up in a case of diminishing returns.
You clearly lack a memory too. GT3 was pushed back time and time again. As was GT4 to a degree. Let's look at some NA release dates:You really lack in the comprehension department. Name one developer which had to create a game in the midst of another game's development cycle, and it not have an influence. A full game mind you, not a minigame like R&C Quest For Booty.
And speak critically of PS3 games as if you have either first hand experience or a vested interest in them.It's classic that I only own a 360...
You need to stop putting words into my posts.PD had absolutely no competition for GT3, and during the development of GT4 had no comprehension of how good Forza would be. Despite that, both GT3 and GT4 were pushed back time and time again, with staggered regional releases, purely to perfect the game according to their own lofty, often unrealistic, standards. So, please don't go trying to tell me that PD pushed back their games because of another game being developed mid-cycle. I have no idea why you mention other developers - it's got nothing to do with the thread.
We all know that Kaz is a bit of a perfectionist, it shows in the games, but all that means is he is never happy with the product, so it gets pushed back all the time. This 2010 announcement is not because of Forza III forcing them to go back to the drawing board in a panic. It's because they simply have not finished the game, and as usual, just push it back because they have no idea when to say enough is enough.
And speak critically of PS3 games as if you have either first hand experience or a vested interest in them.
There is a reason I don't go to the XBox section and slag the system and the games, dude. It's called not being a hypocrite.
Is it in concrete, though? Pretty sure there is some debate over the accuracy of the translation. Japanese is highly idiomatic, and it's easy to screw up the "gist" of a phrase / sentence.Be glad we atleast know a March 2009 for Japan in concrete!
What's wrong with having dreams? Sure, you'll have to compromise along the way, but it's better than not aiming high enough and basically under-achieving.... GT3 was pushed back time and time again. As was GT4 to a degree.
...
... both GT3 and GT4 were pushed back time and time again, with staggered regional releases, purely to perfect the game according to their own lofty, often unrealistic, standards.
He was referring specifically to GT5. It does have competition, and it has had GTPSP developed and released (soon) within its development cycle.So, please don't go trying to tell me that PD pushed back their games because of another game being developed mid-cycle. I have no idea why you mention other developers - it's got nothing to do with the thread.
We know they haven't finished the game, and if Kaz really is such a perfectionist, then yes, he probably does blame himself to some degree...We all know that Kaz is a bit of a perfectionist ... because of Forza III forcing them to go back to the drawing board in a panic. It's because they simply have not finished the game, and as usual, just push it back because they have no idea when to say enough is enough.
I am pretty sure even in a direct conversation (well on the forum, you know what I mean) with you I have said that I am particularly interested in GT5 becuase I am excited and will be buying a PS3 and GT5 (and maybe a new wheel) assuming GT5 is good enough. I mean isn't that about as much as you can ask of someone to be interested in a game, that I would buy a whole system to play it when I already have another system with a lot of great games on it?
And let's not forget, that since I don't have a PS3 I must have no first hand experience with PS3 games right?
Not that I have friends with PS3's that I play right?
It's classic that you want to hate on anyone who isn't kneeling before PD and KY so much that you ignore the truth to make one that suits your needs.
The total irony here is that between us, you were going to have to pay $60 for GT5... I was gonig to have to pay $400+ for GT5... yet you seem to think somehow I shouldn't get to voice my opinion...
Fail.
Now back to the part about how a 360 owner has little problem with delayed game release and you provide a list of PS3 games... is that also classic? Unless of course you just want to stick to the truncated quote you used for my post to help with your silly arguement about me.
Is it in concrete, though? Pretty sure there is some debate over the accuracy of the translation. Japanese is highly idiomatic, and it's easy to screw up the "gist" of a phrase / sentence.
What's wrong with having dreams? Sure, you'll have to compromise along the way, but it's better than not aiming high enough and basically under-achieving.
He was referring specifically to GT5. It does have competition, and it has had GTPSP developed and released (soon) within its development cycle.
But I'm sure that PD had a good idea of the features they wanted in the final iteration of the game, long before development of Forza had begun. With each iteration of GT, Kaz gets closer to implementing all of the features he wants.
I'm pretty sure Kaz and PD know what they are doing. We can 'judge' their judgment once we have the game, not before.
Hmmm... a thought came up... Will GT5 sell for $60? Long development time and added features usually means a higher development cost....![]()
Amar's winds allude to two versions, each having different prices. I reckon they will be charging more for a premium version, not requiring further payment for, e.g., downloadable content. The base version oughtn't cost any more than the ordinary figure for your region (i.e. $60), it may possibly even be cheaper than this, but I wouldn't bet on it.
Run that one by all the "loyalists" who shortly before TGS were saying "better to go in expecting nothing, aiming low means you won't get let down"
Damage is but one example. We had it in GT2, nobody liked it so Kaz was reticent to pursue it again simply because of the "opposition" of the car manufacturers. That's the way I see it anyway.Interesting... I have been told by a few on here that Kaz did not want damage at all, it was forced on him.
That's just the way I work. I like to see all the facts before making a decision.I am not fond of the blind certainty and faith method of thinking, and I am even less fond of the idea you shouldn't voice your opinion until it's all over.
Are you actually giving feedback, or just whinging on a forum? I'm sure Sony / P.D. accept well constructed letters / emails giving feedback about their games, or the painful waiting between releases. They may not respond, but I'm sure they'll read it.When is the appropriate time to judge and give feedback?
Nearly every game I have waited for has experienced delays, publicly or otherwise. This is the nature of the video-games industry. Only a fool would truly believe a release date at any point in a game's development. Some of you ought to try managing a project, of any scale, and realise that compromises have to be made. Maybe PD are trying not to compromise too much. To say nothing of the fact that we technically don't have a release date yet... (Kaz said "within the next 6 months")
As for being a follower, I think we all know who came first. It's easy to copy a concept and build on it. I do that every day.
Well... just to reiterate, PD doesn't own SONY, it's the other way round. Kazunori-dono may be VP of SCEJ, or whatever he is, but he's just one voice on the board of directors. He doesn't have the authority to tell SONY what to do, and the Japanese are pretty strict about the adherence to authority and chain of command. While a talented member might get away with throwing a tantrum in a western boardroom, it would just about get you killed in a Japanese company.
Interesting... I have been told by a few on here that Kaz did not want damage at all, it was forced on him.
The use of the word delay here is unjustified, since we were never told precisely when the game would surface. I think it's pretty obvious now that Kaz's comment about "we can release it when we want" meant that they can draw a line under the content / feature-set they have (neither of which necessarily make a game, by the way), but there are always other things they could add.It's not so much the delays that are the problem, but the reason behind those delays (it's stupid). It's maddening to think they're delaying the game for an app that the fanbase doesn't need in the first place, which we all know is for the profits.
Many, many features in modern racing games have been in other games (not necessarily on consoles) for years before Forza arrived, so it didn't really "debut" anything new at all. The only thing it did, perhaps, was make these more accessible for the console crowd. Rewind is about the only truly new feature to have come along in the last few years; this "debuted" in RD Grid, of course. (I'm open to other suggestions of truly new features.)With GT, we're starting to see many features we've been asking for throughout the years (about a decade?), but only now they're being included, after they've debuted on the Forza series. That's not to say Turn 10 hasn't copied many concepts that the GT series established since 1998, but PD had an opportunity to be a leader in these things along the way. Instead they have focused on trivial elements such as photomode, which is a nice feature to have, but not important as say, online racing, in the scheme of a simulator.
I think it's the only sensible explanation... 👍You could be right; in fact I'd rather believe this was Sony's idea.
Again, if it sells, you'll technically be wrong... although I do kind of agree with you in a sense. I'd like to give the game a go first, before damning it so.But my original point was that, whomever thought this up, it was a horrible idea. And I don't think it's too much to ask (like Leonidaes suggested) that they (Sony as a whole) focus on developing GT5 rather than using the series as a trojan horse to sell PSPs, where it doesn't belong.
The standards of spelling and grammar on this forum are shocking!
The standards of spelling and grammar on this forum are shocking!
I realize that these mistakes come from people for whom English isn't a first language or people with mental problems but nowadays many browsers have built in spell checkers so I think they could at least make the effort!
'I'm 100% sure it's SONY !!! Even if GT5 isn't redy yet, its becose GTpsp and... yes it's SONY fault again!'