It's time for a change.

Discussion in 'GT6 Drifting' started by CallmeDan, Feb 9, 2014.

  1. Gonales

    Gonales

    Messages:
    2,150
    Location:
    Germany
    Your post above mine is about Eric, not me.

    So, now it's the car? When you are actually defending the statement that beginning drifters should drift what they want because it doesn't matter anyway?

    I can think about it all I want. You don't know me. All you do is, assume I'm elitist. Why I'm saying things, or what I'm saying actually doesn't interest you.

    I already said a thousand times, I do NOT care about how experienced players do what they do. What I DO care about, is experienced players telling beginners that (to use a recent example), using an FT86 on comfort mediums is a good beginners choice.

    When you don't have a clue what you're talking about, don't teach other people.

    Yeah, it's all me being close-minded... If you wanna drift alone, that's fine... But when you get to a decent level of drifting, cars will need to match.
     
  2. Dan

    Dan Premium

    Messages:
    15,339
    Cars that aren't set up properly to drift shouldn't. Drifting a stock car is different.

    What's so bad about that car and the tire compound? Let them learn how they want and allow them to branch out once they feel comfortable.

    Perhaps you should follow your own advice. :idea: :dopey:

    You are seriously about to give me a migraine. But, since its my birthday and its Valentine's Day, I'll lay off, for now. I'm sure someone else will explode on you in the meantime.
     
    Downhill Dino likes this.
  3. Downhill Dino

    Downhill Dino Premium

    Messages:
    11,632
    Location:
    United States
    While that may be so, I did say:

    So anyways.

    That was real life.

    This is a game.

    Sure, I don't know you, I know you well enough through these arguments over the years (2 years right?) that I can surely label you, and others can, as an elitist. It is by far not an assumption. I'm saying it now, it's a fact you're an elitist.

    What exactly is the issue with that? Oh no! Different tire choice! Not acceptable! Shun those who don't follow our ways! It's prejudice.

    I understand now! Only you know what you're talking about. I fully apologize all knowing Gran Turismo drifter. :bowdown:

    :rolleyes:

    Of course cars will need to be on same comparable level. As long as the "offending" driver can keep him or herself together than there should be no problem right?

    I've seen you speak about how you can keep your Trueno with Mustangs and BMWs. But those don't match, must be some indecent level of drifting!
     
    CallmeDan likes this.
  4. Gonales

    Gonales

    Messages:
    2,150
    Location:
    Germany
    And where, is the difference with what I've been telling you? You contradict yourself here completely.

    The bad thing, is that you don't let beginners start in cars that are difficult to manage. You let them start in cars that lose traction easily. Cars that aren't excessively grippy.

    You're so funny. (Not)

    I really hope you have a migraine, maybe next time you start talking to me you actually think before you start talking, so you talk some sense...

    So, because it's a game, all logic goes out the window? Grip factors don't matter? Traction is not important? Get real.

    I'm sorry, but what do you consider an elitist? Because I'm telling people NOT to tell people they should use whatever they want? Because I tell people that they have no clue about what they are saying when they are suggesting using a crap car on a grippier compound, to learn to drift and switch to a less grippy compound after? It makes NO sense whatsoever.

    It's not prejudice, it's logic. If you can't see that, it's you that's being narrow-minded, not me.

    I never said I was. I just stated you, Dan and Fuzzy don't know what you're talking about. Or, in case you do... You're just jerks that like having a laugh at people and telling them exactly what not to do.

    There will always be a matter of driving skill involved, but at some point the traction difference becomes too big. Everybody knows that.

    I'm sorry, but... I'm going to be really blunt here. You can not quote me on that. My Trueno, went through a round in VDC finishing third, against 2 350Z's, a couple of S-Chassis and a Miata. Don't throw with outrageous and stupid accusations if you have NO idea, once again, what you're talking about.
     
  5. Downhill Dino

    Downhill Dino Premium

    Messages:
    11,632
    Location:
    United States
    Well... yes actually. GT =/= Real life. What's off about that? :odd:

    If you haven't figured it out for yourself, then there really is a problem. Let's see, must be FR, must be CH, anything that is not is stupid and/or not considered drifting or what is drifting is about. Anyone who doesn't follow these guidelines must be a noob or amateur or any other label you've placed on those who don't follow such a mentality. Basically that's you, and that's elitism. It's not that you're telling people not to tell people what they should and shouldn't use, you're really twisting words here to accommodate your position. It's like you're playing the victim.

    It's not prejudice, it's logic? Yeah, no. I'd love to hear you expand upon that. And do explain how I'm being narrow-minded.

    That's how we see you. Also, explain on how we don't know what we're talking about.

    I'm sure I could if I could dig deep enough, I only recall the post. How you performed in the competition, specifically with Z's/S-Chassis's/Miatas, is completely irrelevant to my point.
     
    FussyFez and CallmeDan like this.
  6. PUSH

    PUSH

    Messages:
    404
    Location:
    United States
    Wow you his thread is Funny to me...not to be disrespectful in any type of way. Everyone has made valid points. Its simple to handle...If I make a public lobby and place what I have think will keep the driving Honest and competitive...just remember ...its my lobby that YOU joined. Dont like it? Then go make a lobby wYou can leave at any time. THE HOST MAKES THE RULES... I have even been involved in a few annoying conversations about why I won't unlock 4WD or change the tires... In all fareness its my lobby and if some drivers actually read and look at the info of the room it will tell you if there are restrictions...and still they ask to have the rules changed.
    I hosted a " NEMESIS- 4door only" and you would think that people would understand it in BOLD writing. A few of these drivers were I dont agree with putting other drivers down but thats and there is no excuse for any driver to be hitting others. , because of the car they drive is low power.
    My question is why you are going to join a room that you don't like the rules? And then complain about the way that host is acting
    That's is also when some people are blatantly disrespecting the host and Ignore the rules and polite
    Instructions that it might need a little more than a friendly talk.

    I fear that this will never be a easy problem solved in the community.
     
    Lolvo, GregOr1971, JDM SRE70 and 9 others like this.
  7. TexRex

    TexRex Premium

    Messages:
    17,917
    Location:
    United States
    I'd be curious to see the average age of users posting in this thread, if not a breakdown of the individual users' ages. I know it's pretty useless wanting people to act a little more appropriately on the internet with it being the end-all-be-all brown paper bag of anonymity, but it's still something I would appreciate.
    Quick, off-topic question: Would an RX-8 have been okay? ;)
    And on the topic of lobby titles, people listing some of the more hard-fast limitations in their titles might help greatly. I just took a stab at Gran Turismo 5 and found that the game itself indicates some of them, while 6 does not.
     
    FussyFez and PUSH like this.
  8. Gonales

    Gonales

    Messages:
    2,150
    Location:
    Germany
    I'm 21. :)

    On your question on the Rx8: Isn't it a coupe? Not 4-door, so I think it wouldn't be okay. :) (Not sure though, could be mistaken.)
     
  9. JDM_Tuning_S3OZ

    JDM_Tuning_S3OZ

    Messages:
    1,100
    Location:
    Australia
    Yes it's definitely a coupe
     
  10. TexRex

    TexRex Premium

    Messages:
    17,917
    Location:
    United States
    [​IMG]
    A coupe...that has 4 doors. Of course now I can't help but fear the thread will go off in this direction, which was not my intention, so I'll retract my argument. :lol:

    I'm not really inclined to use an RX-8 anyway, just sayin'.
     
    FussyFez and CallmeDan like this.
  11. JDM_Tuning_S3OZ

    JDM_Tuning_S3OZ

    Messages:
    1,100
    Location:
    Australia
    It's advertised as a coupe,
    Even Top Gear said it was a coupe and I'm not a fan of Top Gear so don't start about that.
     
    PUSH likes this.
  12. twitcher

    twitcher

    Messages:
    6,232
    I was in the lobby. There was a RX8, and it was cool, because it was driven by a good friend.

    I think Push was referring to people who were driving true 2-doors....like I was, but only for a bit :lol:

    It was surprising how many people joined with 2-doors when the name clearly said "4-DOORS ONLY"...

    Perhaps it was because when people would join, they would see one or two 2-doors on track, and assume it was ok. That's understandable I guess, but it was almost sad to see how many people wouldn't change even when Push asked them to.
     
    PUSH likes this.
  13. TexRex

    TexRex Premium

    Messages:
    17,917
    Location:
    United States
    Perfect segue back to the topic that Dan started. I think it's really up to the host to actually host their room rather than simply enforce rules, arbitrary or otherwise. Sadly regulations such as the number of doors a vehicles can't be specified (I'm not sad, that would be silly), but at the same time, even good eggs in a room can invite a bad element whether they intended to or not. I would LOVE to be able to start a room and ask people to do their thing while being mindful of others, and they may do that, but what's to stop others who see a certain vehicle type or equipment being used and catch the bug, only to be disruptful? At the same time, a good host can be lenient at times to make those with less (or more) ability feel more welcome. I started off prohibiting ABS, but as people who are clearly more capable than me have requested the opportunity to use it, I've only allowed it unless otherwise stated in the room name. Sorry for the wall of text, I had a few points to make and couldn't think well enough to find good breaks.
     
    twitcher and CallmeDan like this.
  14. Dan

    Dan Premium

    Messages:
    15,339
    Don't worry. There's been longer posts I've seen. :lol: But I do agree with what you say.
     
  15. twodogsgolden

    twodogsgolden

    Messages:
    355
    Location:
    United States
    At the end of the day, if you can slide it and own that ****, that's all I care about.
     
  16. JDM SRE70

    JDM SRE70

    Messages:
    1,878
    Location:
    Australia
    I'm just putting my 2c out there about the "Experienced drifters attitude towards the freshman". I'll be honest i have been quite rude to amateur drifters, but with good reason. (According to my opinions). People new to drifting should be aware of track etiquette. I think this is the single most important thing of all, in any form of motorsport. Take the time to evaluate your self, and consider that you may be an obstacle, or an annoyance to other drivers. In many cases, i have seen many people just loose control, and fling their cars back onto the track with out checking, or ramming someone off without any apology or on purpose. Is it not annoying to have a perfect run ruined by someone cutting you off or ramming you off?

    I don't think their is one person who can say they haven't been subjected to such behavior on the track, its essential that new drifters be aware of track etiquette creating a damage free environment. (Personally, i put visible damage on my lobbies, so people will take extra care when driving instead of treating every car like a missile car.)

    Secondly, with the experienced drifters. We must be aware that we were once amateurs, trying to tandem, spinning out trying to clip the apex. Show some leniency towards new drifters, point out any errors you may spot. It'll improve room quality, and it'd improve the flow of track. Help them, help you.

    What i'm getting at, is to drive cars with care. Don't drive them like their a missile, unless the host specifies.

    As for the FR/CH Tradition, if you want to go by other means go ahead. The exit button of the lobby is there for a reason, don't ask the host to change settings. They implemented the restrictions to their liking's because it's their lobby. If you don't like it, simply leave and find a new one. OR just create your own.

    Keep Drifting Fun, How? Track Etiquette, and a Kind community!
     
    MetalJet, SmokedBump, yaman and 6 others like this.
  17. JDM_Tuning_S3OZ

    JDM_Tuning_S3OZ

    Messages:
    1,100
    Location:
    Australia
    Perfectly said :tup:
     
  18. PUSH

    PUSH

    Messages:
    404
    Location:
    United States

    The RX8 in my opinion is a 4door. Not a very good looking 4door but it has 4 doors.


    I would like to actually see a classification or some what of a certification to be able to join contain lobbies. Age might be a great way to separate the different maturity Levels, but I have seen some adults act worse than a 9 year old on COD. We all would like to have a online lobby where there was a type of structure and everyone has been taught the rules of Track Etiquette, and have been around long enough that there wouldn't have to be all this arguments about regulations and the way people drive or what they drive.

    I'm a Drifter and have loved racing since I started in 1996 and love motorsports....but I won't (and should never be allowed to.lol) enter a Pro level Drag lobby. Because I know my skill level and the respect I have for those that do it I would not like to waste their time.

    Until there is a way to guage or grade ones maturity and track etiquette this will be a on going issue. We can only hope that when they see our PSN names or team names on the room name that this is a NO BS type of lobby and practice good track etiquettes.

    A person who just got there license can't enter NHRA, JGTC, D1GP or any other.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2014
    MadFlavour likes this.
  19. Gonales

    Gonales

    Messages:
    2,150
    Location:
    Germany
    Yeah, but the problem is this: Some people with a decent reputation don't actually tend to use track etiquette. I judge a bit more harshly when it comes to that, but still. It's the simple things that matter most... Don't chase somebody when they ask you not to. When people want to tandem, wait for them and dont race off, etc.

    It's not really the 'noobs' that are the problem, I've driven with beginning players that have more track etiquette than I do. (Which says quite a lot). It's 100% in the attitude of the driver.
     
    JDM SRE70 and PUSH like this.
  20. PUSH

    PUSH

    Messages:
    404
    Location:
    United States
    I am 34 and have been in the Drift Community for sometime now as like many others, and I do see people laughing at others when asked to change this or that. But I noticed it is the way a person decided to ask. It usually starts with " Uhh these stupid Fing CH tires" or similar to that degree. And then goes to a personal attack of the host choice to use that regulation.
    I was asked 3times the other day while hosting a lobby for about 4 hours, 2 of the drivers asked in a straight forward and simple way and I replied politely to both and they acknowledged and that was that. I wish I could remember the PSN names, So I could give them respect properly, they were very respectful.
    Now the other was the complete opposite he started with insulting everyone who was drifting in the room for using the tires and then trying to explain why he needs to use it and so on. I replied " Sorry bro this is a CH room only" and as I typed out "if your having trouble with your car on these tires, I might be able to help with your setup." He called me a Noob, Faggot and a few other things in which I just put "LMAO".

    So the reason some veterans may laugh is because we see this and deal with this enough everyday. It becomes a routine.
     
  21. FussyFez

    FussyFez

    Messages:
    1,460
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I'm 23, been drifting (properly) on games since I was about 13. Probably younger.

    With all due respect to the OP,

    This thread is the perfect example of what's wrong.

    Some people can't accept that their opinion is just that, an opinion.
     
    PUSH likes this.
  22. JDM_Tuning_S3OZ

    JDM_Tuning_S3OZ

    Messages:
    1,100
    Location:
    Australia
    I'm 19,
    Been drifting since virtually since release of GT4 and started in real life when I was 16.
     
  23. Dan

    Dan Premium

    Messages:
    15,339
    I completely agree that all people need to have track etiquette before getting into any type of racing. The big problem is, I have seen experienced drifters with very poor track etiquette.

    I also agree with what you said about respecting what restrictions a host sets up in their lobby. But it's just annoying when they think that is the only way to drift and they take that attitude outside of lobbies.
     
    twitcher and PUSH like this.
  24. PUSH

    PUSH

    Messages:
    404
    Location:
    United States

    True it can be annoying. I often go and checkout other lobbies that don't have the tire restrictions and to be very honest...its a mess. No control and more often do you see people ramming into a slower driver with no regard. Its always good to look at something with a open mind and try different things but younger drivers overlook the process it takes to become a great driver on any type of tire. Are new GT drivers willing to commit to the time and practice it takes to just understand what they are trying to do racing, rally,drifting or drag racing? 80% is a no. I hear it everyday and just now seen it again...that's why people ask for others "setup" instead of asking how or why. People want the quickest way to the answers and seldom ask to explain the formula to get the answer. Laziness tends to create the problem you been talking about.

    The drivers must adapt to the track and/or the restrictions in that lobby.
     
    BayouSimDrifter, TexRex and CallmeDan like this.
  25. twitcher

    twitcher

    Messages:
    6,232
    Hit the nail on the head there!

    I usually drift FR/CH, because that's what I'm comfortable with. But I am fully aware that there are other ways to skin that drifting cat, and I respect them, as long as there isn't any interference with what is going on in the room.

    To me, the tires are the bigger issue. I've drifted on CH while others were on CM or CS without much of a problem. Sports tires on the other hand, just don't mix. I've actually started to see lobbies labeled along the lines of "sports tire drifting", which I think is awesome. The room is named properly, and hopefully the people in it have a better experience because of it. I don't join those lobbies, as I know my CH tired cars will be obstacles for them....but I still respect what they are doing.

    I have less issue with 4WD. I know a couple people who use them from time to time, and can actually tandem with reasonable success. I know others who use 4WD, and who actually don't try to tandem, but want to be in the room with their friends to chat on the mic while running solo. I have absolutely no issue with this.

    As has been mentioned, it all comes down to etiquette and respect.

    As Dan mentioned, what really boils my blood is when the "enforcement" of these lobby rules extends outside of the lobbies, specifically here on GTP. If people want to talk about 4WD drifting, or non-CH drifting, they should be able to do so here without "pros" jumping in their thread, telling them they are doing it wrong and ruining the sport of drifting.




    One specific example from about a year ago:

    I had someone on PSN ask me for help tuning their Evo to drift. I said that I couldn't help, as I know nothing about it. I gave the person the names of a few people I thought could help, and also directed them to GTP.

    About a week later, the person wrote back to me to say thanks for the PSN names, as they had helped, but also made a comment about GTP, saying "I got a few 4WD tunes from the tuning thread, but I skimmed through the drift forums, and damn if there isn't a lot of :censored:holes there."

    This saddened me deeply, as the person seemed pretty chill, and we had lost a potential new member of the community.



    At the end of the day, no matter how realistic GT gets, it is a video game. All kinds of people will play it for all kinds of different reasons. Some will try to recreate real life as accurately as possible....others will try to deviate from real life as much as possible. Neither are wrong.

    Is that "backwards NSX/Civic" drifting video realistic? Not even close. But it's still hella cool!!


    I would love to see the day where, instead of people jumping into threads to cut others down in a negative way, they would make their own threads to convey their approach to drifting in a positive way. All we can do is put information out there, let people evaluate it for themselves, and make their own choices.
     
    Stavingo, PUSH, Flash_Sweden and 5 others like this.
  26. TexRex

    TexRex Premium

    Messages:
    17,917
    Location:
    United States
    This may well be the best post I have seen on the entire forum. I have absolutely no delusions regarding my skill level but I have made an attempt to try various other approaches before landing on the FR / CH / under 300hp / no ABS line that I currently walk, so I have nothing but the utmost respect for those who can do the others well. My only issue is that anything beyond that is where problems can develop when people are more careless and/or just plain oblivious toward me. I currently restrict to FR / CH simply because I have the best opportunity to enjoy myself in my room. The same argument can be made for another host with more relaxed restrictions. However, I don't even bother joining rooms with none of the "something in this category has been restricted but we won't tell you what" icons ticked off because more often than not it's utter chaos with a host that is either unaware (not paying attention) or apathetic. That said, if I join a room and see that the prevailing style involves the use of 600hp cars on CS tires, I'll make an effort to fit in before I do anything else. Anyway, I'm using the PS3 browser and the tips of my thumbs are sore so I'll wrap it up, but thank you for that post @twitcher
     
    PUSH, CallmeDan and twitcher like this.
  27. JDM SRE70

    JDM SRE70

    Messages:
    1,878
    Location:
    Australia
    So it got me thinking, shall i start up a Track Etiquette Thread? I'll put down, what i think is essential for the track. Then other members of the GTPlanet community can kindly project their thoughts upon it, and work together so we can have track etiquette rules that everyone can agree on? It'll knock down one issue of the current time, and improve lobbies. If we follow it, non-GTPlanet drivers will most likely follow it too. As we are from many different reputable teams. The community won't change by its self, why because we are the community!
     
  28. JDM_Tuning_S3OZ

    JDM_Tuning_S3OZ

    Messages:
    1,100
    Location:
    Australia
    Brilliant idea :bowdown:
     
  29. TexRex

    TexRex Premium

    Messages:
    17,917
    Location:
    United States
    I'm saddened that it would be necessary, but apparently it is. Go for it.
     
  30. twodogsgolden

    twodogsgolden

    Messages:
    355
    Location:
    United States
    Great idea. We should try and have a drift lobby thread. Say someone starts a lobby, they can reply to the thread with the lobby number then edit it when it is closed. Hopefully this will cut down on the amount of rude randoms.
     
    JDM_Tuning_S3OZ likes this.