Japanese Super cars poll.

[Master_Yoda]

You want to tell me again, you said nothing about a S2000 beating an Enzo?
Its either stock or modified, but it has to be modified if it can do that.

And if an NSX gets near a F430, that doesn't mean the NSX driver is going to beat the Enzo. The Enzo is a car that pretty much is way out of the NSX, Skyline, Supra, or RX-7's league for that matter.

Plus, most of the time, the driver of the cars is going to know exactly what he's doing, whether Enzo or NSX which means, the driver is much more likely to beat himself if he was driving the Enzo than the NSX.

There's a point to supercar. The NSX keeps up with cars I like to call high-powered sports cars. Yes, it can keep up with Lamborghinis and Ferraris, but when it comes to the straightaway, the Lamborghini 95% of the time blasts away, and it'll depend on the Ferrari model.

aparently you don't listen all that well. i said in the SECOND post i said NOTHING about a MODDED or STOCK S2000 beating the Enzo. i said S200 (stock) couldn't keep up, but modded it can and beat it. i saw a video of one some were on streetfire.net

then why are you yelling at me about the NSX keeping up with the F430 go to Famine i was quoting him instead you wanna yell at me.

@ driver of car, your actiing like all drivers drive the same on a coarse, well think again buddy, there are better driver then others, that the point of racing, not the car.i kno friends that can have a lightly modded civic, and can beat me and my 300ZX ANY day. you kno why? cause they are kik ass drivers, who do it every weekend, so don't give me cr*p about the driver messing him self up, or the fact the it doesn't matter on the driver.

 

[McLaren]

aparently you don't listen all that well. i said in the SECOND post i said NOTHING about a MODDED or STOCK S2000 beating the Enzo. i said S200 (stock) couldn't keep up, but modded it can and beat it. i saw a video of one some were on streetfire.net

then why are you yelling at me about the NSX keeping up with the F430 go to Famine i was quoting him instead you wanna yell at me.

@ driver of car, your actiing like all drivers drive the same on a coarse, well think again buddy, there are better driver then others, that the point of racing, not the car.i kno friends that can have a lightly modded civic, and can beat me and my 300ZX ANY day. you kno why? cause they are kik ass drivers, who do it every weekend, so don't give me cr*p about the driver messing him self up, or the fact the it doesn't matter on the driver.

Apparently, you don't read. And what you just said in Italics contradicted yourself.

well, why not call them a super car? eh, as far as i kno and i have seen many races, i have seen the USpra lost only ONE drag race, and that was to a skyline, but i have seen hem crush competition such as Lambo, Ferrari, BMW, Dodge, of coarse some of the fastest drag racers are hemis on ultra light wieght frames with a nice piant job. and on coarse tracks, i still see these cars beat "SUPERCARS", infact i have seen a Honda S2000, crush a Ferrari Enzo on track, belive? you better, when a car go soaring around corners just as fast as the Enzo, it comes out on top in accel. I'm not just saying this cause i'm a japanese import lover, but i say this for truth. and i'm not saying that japanese imports ALWAYS win i'm just saying since i have seen a majorty of them beat "SUPERCARS" we theres my thought on that therefor i call those cars, AND my 300ZX a japanese supercar.

Modifying a car does not count. Using after market parts to beat a stock car proves nothing. You're giving the After Market companies credit, not Honda.

Anyways, NSX gets my vote. No reason needed.

I replied to that post where you did in fact, talk about a S2000 beating an Enzo.

Again, you stated that if a NSX could keep up with a F430, then its possible there's a driver that could keep up with a Enzo. And I replied, its unlikely since most drivers are pros. and know what they're doing. And when it comes to performance, the pros. usually know how to drive. 1 driver made be better than another, but since most are pros. and know how to use a car to its full potential, its incredible unlikely the NSX will keep up the Enzo.

And no, I know all drivers are not the same. However, most of them are pros. and again, know how to use a car 100%. And when it comes to comparing a NSX to an Enzo, its 99% likely the Enzo will get away.

And big deal. So your friend can beat you. I highly doubt you're both pros. so that doesn't really help you at all.

When drivers do comparison tests, they know what they're doing and how to use the car.
I mean, d*mn, that's like saying the GT Porsches can beat the R8s. Why don't they? Because both drivers are pros. and know how to use their cars 100%. And since the R8 packs more power, and the driver knows how to use it, its 100% likely he'll win in a short comparison.

 

[Kent]

Any car can make "super car" status when modded enough.

However, I try to stick with the idea of "factory built" when discussing super cars.

With that in mind, only one car on the list above works for this and it is a specific incarnation of that car- the NSX-R.

Doubt me?
That's cool. 👍

However, before we all get into a huge debate, let's look at some of the existing evidence... Specifically, I am thinking of the "best motoring" battle at motegi.

This included a marciellago (sp?), gallardo, 360, 911 turbo (maybe a gt3), an NSX-R, and an M3.

The battle was awesome and did an excellent job of showing just how fast super cars are. 👍

However, the Lambos took 1 & 2.
But the NSX took 3rd.
Partly because of driver, partly because it just couldn't keep up the pace without over-heating (guess that driver was really pushing it).

In any case, I think it is a bit rediculus for us to argue about which cars are faster.
Drivers, track conditions, etc etc, all make a difference.

Even with all of that said, I still think the list above is weak on super cars.
That's even more true since this is about japanese super cars and I don't even see the ZZII up there.

 

[Supren]

Modded or not, i think the peeps putting down the japanese cars are missing the point in my view. This will tell it all....

Stock Supra $40k+mods 20K= $60k over i guess 900hp
Stock Lambo or any other expensive "Super Car" i like to call Exotic 100k-1mil

A car that cost way much less expesive and has the ABILITY to perform much better than what u call "super cars" (Exotics). Don't get me wrong, i have a passion for all cars. Im into all types of cars n stuff. But when it comes to performace and the flexibilty some car's options, i just would find the japanese imports to be much better and reliable for their price. I wish i would have a Lamborghini Murc, but i kno the chances of me getting one would be in my dreams unless i win the lotto. When it comes to racing and car comparison in speed and performace, i always compare about the price range. Y argue againts something that cost 1/10 the price of the car you are comparing w/? 👎

 

[McLaren]

Modded or not, i think the peeps putting down the japanese cars are missing the point in my view. This will tell it all....

Stock Supra $40k+mods 20K= $60k over i guess 900hp
Stock Lambo or any other expensive "Super Car" i like to call Exotic 100k-1mil

A car that cost way much less expesive and has the ABILITY to perform much better than what u call "super cars" (Exotics). Don't get me wrong, i have a passion for all cars. Im into all types of cars n stuff. But when it comes to performace and the flexibilty some car's options, i just would find the japanese imports to be much better and reliable for their price. I wish i would have a Lamborghini Murc, but i kno the chances of me getting one would be in my dreams unless i win the lotto. When it comes to racing and car comparison in speed and performace, i always compare about the price range. Y argue againts something that cost 1/10 the price of the car you are comparing w/? 👎

I know, and that's exactly why people love to modify Japanese cars. They're incredibly easy to mod with their V6s and such.

I mean, how many people do you know would like to spend money on modifying a V12 from 600Hp to 900Hp? Not many which is why so many love to modify the Japanese cars. Not to mention, they're easy to maintain which is a big plus.

 

[Master_Yoda]

Apparently, you don't read. And what you just said in Italics contradicted yourself.


I replied to that post where you did in fact, talk about a S2000 beating an Enzo.

Again, you stated that if a NSX could keep up with a F430, then its possible there's a driver that could keep up with a Enzo. And I replied, its unlikely since most drivers are pros. and know what they're doing. And when it comes to performance, the pros. usually know how to drive. 1 driver made be better than another, but since most are pros. and know how to use a car to its full potential, its incredible unlikely the NSX will keep up the Enzo.

And no, I know all drivers are not the same. However, most of them are pros. and again, know how to use a car 100%. And when it comes to comparing a NSX to an Enzo, its 99% likely the Enzo will get away.

And big deal. So your friend can beat you. I highly doubt you're both pros. so that doesn't really help you at all.

When drivers do comparison tests, they know what they're doing and how to use the car.
I mean, d*mn, that's like saying the GT Porsches can beat the R8s. Why don't they? Because both drivers are pros. and know how to use their cars 100%. And since the R8 packs more power, and the driver knows how to use it, its 100% likely he'll win in a short comparison.

can you count? i said SECOND post not first... heres a ticket to sesamie Street, so that counting vampire can give you first a lesson on how to count to 10, then he will teach you how to count posts, then come back here and we will all be proud of you and give you pat on your back and a gold star sticker that says "I CAN COUN'T TO TWO!!!"

and yes, me and my friend are definatly not pros, infact i have ONLY be driving for 2 half years. my friend races EVERY weekend, and has the skill and car to make it to the pros.

and your acting like people race will stock cars. well in 2 years of racing i have not seen ONE person enter a stock car in a race.

 

[Kent]

Modded or not, i think the peeps putting down the japanese cars are missing the point in my view. This will tell it all....

Stock Supra $40k+mods 20K= $60k over i guess 900hp
Stock Lambo or any other expensive "Super Car" i like to call Exotic 100k-1mil

A car that cost way much less expesive and has the ABILITY to perform much better than what u call "super cars" (Exotics). Don't get me wrong, i have a passion for all cars. Im into all types of cars n stuff. But when it comes to performace and the flexibilty some car's options, i just would find the japanese imports to be much better and reliable for their price. I wish i would have a Lamborghini Murc, but i kno the chances of me getting one would be in my dreams unless i win the lotto. When it comes to racing and car comparison in speed and performace, i always compare about the price range. Y argue againts something that cost 1/10 the price of the car you are comparing w/? 👎

I didn't know price had become an issue in this discussion.

Then again, I don't think it should be- at all!

Think about it... Super cars?

Now, performance and value. 👍
But isn't that another topic altoghter?

The very nature of super cars is to ignore price and other real world troubles.

If you all want to talk about reliability, price, value, etc etc, fine, just make it obvious.

When the subject of a thread is "super cars" we really need to address the idea of super cars and not which car has the most bang for the buck.

Btw, adding tuning into the equation (IMO) is silly.
With tuning any car can be a super car.
Go to "racing-flix.com" and find the video of a 900hp VW golf blowing away everything on the track... Would that mean the Golf is a super car?

Btw, take note of the fact that my previous post in this thread gave the NSX-R credit as a super car, so you can't act like Im putting down the Japanese cars.

 

[McLaren]

can you count? i said SECOND post not first... heres a ticket to sesamie Street, so that counting vampire can give you first a lesson on how to count to 10, then he will teach you how to count post, then come back here and we will all be proud of you and give you pat on your back and a gold star sticker that says "I CAN COUN'T TO TWO!!!"

and yes, me and my friend are definatly not pros, infact i have ONLY be driving for 2 half years. my friend races EVERY weekend, andhas the skill and car to make it to the pros.

and your acting like people race will stock cars. well in 2 years of racing i have not seen ONE person enter a stock car in a race.

1st-completely immature. I don't care if it was your 2nd post or not, and technically, you can't count. That's actually your 6th post in this thread. Maybe tis' you who should head to Sesame Street.

2nd - That's your opinion. I'll wait to find out for myself if he drives like a pro.

3rd - Obviously, in your 2 years, you haven't been to enough races.
People race stock cars all the time. They're called Racing Events.
People will either race in Events, or Professional Racing.
BTW, Audi R8s in racing actually are stock.


Plus, you're 1st post in this thread was even stupider and completely uncalled for.

 

[Supren]

I didn't know price had become an issue in this discussion.

Then again, I don't think it should be- at all!

Think about it... Super cars?

Now, performance and value. 👍
But isn't that another topic altoghter?

The very nature of super cars is to ignore price and other real world troubles.

If you all want to talk about reliability, price, value, etc etc, fine, just make it obvious.

When the subject of a thread is "super cars" we really need to address the idea of super cars and not which car has the most bang for the buck.

Btw, adding tuning into the equation (IMO) is silly.
With tuning any car can be a super car.
Go to "racing-flix.com" and find the video of a 900hp VW golf blowing away everything on the track... Would that mean the Golf is a super car?

Yes, i very much agree w/ you, that is very true. But in the Real World, all i hear is money money money w/o it u cant do much or nothing at all. Yet i just stated the "real world troubles" because it's going on all the time...Once again well said! 👍

 

[icandriftbetter]

skylines all the way. i cant even put supras or any of the others in the same chart. i think the skylines have more of a heritage and a background and they blow any other car in its class away once modded

 

[Master_Yoda]

1st-completely immature. I don't care if it was your 2nd post or not, and technically, you can't count. That's actually your 6th post in this thread. Maybe tis' you who should head to Sesame Street.

2nd - That's your opinion. I'll wait to find out for myself if he drives like a pro.

3rd - Obviously, in your 2 years, you haven't been to enough races.
People race stock cars all the time. They're called Racing Events.
People will either race in Events, or Professional Racing.
BTW, Audi R8s in racing actually are stock.


Plus, you're 1st post in this thread was even stupider and completely uncalled for.

I CAN'T COUNT??? your the one who kept talkin about my first post we i was talking about my second post you want me to number them for you??? of caorse you will say no, cause you don't want everyone on GTP to know that your being a n00b,


and i need to go to more races? eh buddy were i race thers no limits
i see tuned Lambos, Ferraris, but i havn't seen them WIN, i havn't lost to one either, same with my buds, you wanna know why? we go to tracks every weekend.

and when i went to Aspin Colorado and did some racing with are 240SX, and 300ZX, we raced Lambos, Ferraris that were tunned. but we walked aout of that city a week later, $7,000 richer.

and yes i can pretty much call my friend a pro, with out your n00bish thought, hes 23 and has been racing since he was 16. he has 3 cars, yes i said 3 cars, from all that money he has won. hes making a living off of 2 days of racing a week.

cars he owns.. Toyota Supra Twin Turbo (750 HP), Mazda RX-7 (673 HP), Honda Civic (389Hp) now hes won that and spent a year on each car. and he has his own house. he payed for EVERYTHING. he one of the smartes drivers i have met. each car handles better then you can imagine, and he can go around the penalty corner at Infineon Raceway 10mph faster. now you decide if hes good or not.

 

[McLaren]

Wow, he's such a badass.

I'm glad you love bragging.


























Because I don't believe a word you say.

BTW, I'd love to hear what other members think of your friend.

 

[Master_Yoda]

skylines all the way. i cant even put supras or any of the others in the same chart. i think the skylines have more of a heritage and a background and they blow any other car in its class away once modded

skyline doesn't need to be modded to be good withen its class, but it is pointless in its class once modded.

 

[Master_Yoda]

Wow, he's such a badass.

I'm glad you love bragging.


























Because I don't believe a word you say.

WOW i don't care, you sertentalyy don't know much racing can pay if you go to rich places like Aspin, bevarly Hills. talk to a rich person with a fast car and high self confedence and they will accept a race with a prize money of a couple grand. he races almost every day. i race on weekends.

 

[McLaren]

WOW i don't care, you sertentalyy don't know much racing can pay if you go to rich places like Aspin, bevarly Hills. talk to a rich person with a fast car and high self confedence and they will accept a race with a prize money of a couple grand. he races almost every day. i race on weekends.

I don't believe you always race tuned Lamborghinis and Ferraris, and never lose.
You're a bragger and probably a liar.

 

[Famine]

so if the NSX can keep why not call it a "SUPERCAR"?? i mean if it can keep up with a "SUPERCAR". or is it gonna be decided of te engine is infront or not. Famnie you do have good points there, BUT if a car (stock) can keep up with a "SUPERCAR"it should be concendered one, not if the engine is on front or back. i may miss read it, if so please tell me.

A £25,000 kit-built Caterham R500 can obliterate all Ferraris and Lamborghinis (bar the Enzo) on a track. Is it a supercar?

If the engine is ahead of the driver then it's not, to my opinion, a supercar, regardless of price or speed. Carrera GT? Supercar. McLaren SLR? GT car.

In fact, let's trot out a list of all the 200mph cars we know of:
Ferrari F40 (MR)
Ferrari F50 (MR)
McLaren F1 (MR)
Jaguar XJ220 (MR)
Ford GT40 (MR)
Ford GT (MR)
Ferrari Enzo Ferrari (MR)
Porsche Carrera GT (MR)
Bugatti EB110 (MR)
Bugatti Veyron (MR)
McLaren Mercedes SLR (FR)
Lister Storm (FR)
Bentley Continental (FR)
TVR Speed 12 (FR)
(Porsche 959) (M4)
Jaguar XJR-15 (MR)
Ruf CTR Yellowbird (R4)

You seeing a pattern here? We've got a bunch of focussed 200mph cars - engine behind the driver. There's three FRs on the (not complete) list - the big, heavy McLaren Mercedes SLR which I consider a GT car because it's a very fast, luxury car. We've got the Bentley Continental which will NEVER be a supercar. In fact the only FR I can think of which can come into supercar land is the TVR Speed 12 - simply because it's SO light (~950kg/2120lb), SO powerful (850hp+), SO fast (240mph, 3.0s) and SO exclusive (one sold). But, there's always an exception.

And I never said the NSX can keep up with the F430 - I said exactly the opposite.

F430 >> F360CS/NSX-R >> F360/NSX facelift >> F355/NSX 3.2 >> F348/NSX

The NSX could keep up with the supercars of its day - the fastest Ferrari could offer. It was also mid-engined (yay!) and stupidly expensive (a £70,000 Honda?). In fact the only thing which could be held against it in the supercar club is the badge and the production run (not by me, I should add).

The further point was that the R33 Skyline GT-R was introduced 4 years later and became the fastest ever production car around the 'Ring. So IF ONE WERE TO CONSIDER ONLY SPEED (which I don't) the Skyline should make it in the club too.

The further further point was that almost everyone on Earth would consider the Countach a supercar - but I'd wager a Supra could keep up with one on track. Does that mean you should consider a Supra to be a supercar, by extension?


It's easy to dismiss Japanese cars as not being supercars - but it depends on your definitions. When they came to the market, they were as quick as the best that was on offer of the day - and the maximum you can get from a car has had to move on so that it's not seen hanging around with the Far Eastern riff-raff.

 

[Quattro20v]

I CAN'T COUNT??? your the one who kept talkin about my first post we i was talking about my second post you want me to number them for you??? of caorse you will say no, cause you don't want everyone on GTP to know that your being a n00b,


and i need to go to more races? eh buddy were i race thers no limits
i see tuned Lambos, Ferraris, but i havn't seen them WIN, i havn't lost to one either, same with my buds, you wanna know why? we go to tracks every weekend.

and when i went to Aspin Colorado and did some racing with are 240SX, and 300ZX, we raced Lambos, Ferraris that were tunned. but we walked aout of that city a week later, $7,000 richer.

and yes i can pretty much call my friend a pro, with out your n00bish thought, hes 23 and has been racing since he was 16. he has 3 cars, yes i said 3 cars, from all that money he has won. hes making a living off of 2 days of racing a week.

cars he owns.. Toyota Supra Twin Turbo (750 HP), Mazda RX-7 (673 HP), Honda Civic (389Hp) now hes won that and spent a year on each car. and he has his own house. he payed for EVERYTHING. he one of the smartes drivers i have met. each car handles better then you can imagine, and he can go around the penalty corner at Infineon Raceway 10mph faster. now you decide if hes good or not.

Now ^this^ is what I call OFFTOPIC.

 

[EvilToast]

if a car needs to be tunned to beat super cars then its not a super car to begin with. my 2 cents.

 

[Master_Yoda]

A £25,000 kit-built Caterham R500 can obliterate all Ferraris and Lamborghinis (bar the Enzo) on a track. Is it a supercar?

If the engine is ahead of the driver then it's not, to my opinion, a supercar, regardless of price or speed. Carrera GT? Supercar. McLaren SLR? GT car.

In fact, let's trot out a list of all the 200mph cars we know of:
Ferrari F40 (MR)
Ferrari F50 (MR)
McLaren F1 (MR)
Jaguar XJ220 (MR)
Ford GT40 (MR)
Ford GT (MR)
Ferrari Enzo Ferrari (MR)
Porsche Carrera GT (MR)
Bugatti EB110 (MR)
Bugatti Veyron (MR)
McLaren Mercedes SLR (FR)
Lister Storm (MR)
Bentley Continental (FR)
TVR Speed 12 (FR)
(Porsche 959) (M4)
Jaguar XJR-15 (MR)
Ruf CTR Yellowbird (R4)

You seeing a pattern here? We've got a bunch of focussed 200mph cars - engine behind the driver. There's three FRs on the (not complete) list - the big, heavy McLaren Mercedes SLR which I consider a GT car because it's a very fast, luxury car. We've got the Bentley Continental which will NEVER be a supercar. In fact the only FR I can think of which can come into supercar land is the TVR Speed 12 - simply because it's SO light (~950kg/2120lb), SO powerful (850hp+), SO fast (240mph, 3.0s) and SO exclusive (one sold). But, there's always an exception.

And I never said the NSX can keep up with the F430 - I said exactly the opposite.

F430 >> F360CS/NSX-R >> F360/NSX facelift >> F355/NSX 3.2 >> F348/NSX

The NSX could keep up with the supercars of its day - the fastest Ferrari could offer. It was also mid-engined (yay!) and stupidly expensive (a £70,000 Honda?). In fact the only thing which could be held against it in the supercar club is the badge and the production run (not by me, I should add).

The further point was that the R33 Skyline GT-R was introduced 4 years later and became the fastest ever production car around the 'Ring. So IF ONE WERE TO CONSIDER ONLY SPEED (which I don't) the Skyline should make it in the club too.

The further further point was that almost everyone on Earth would consider the Countach a supercar - but I'd wager a Supra could keep up with one on track. Does that mean you should consider a Supra to be a supercar, by extension?


It's easy to dismiss Japanese cars as not being supercars - but it depends on your definitions. When they came to the market, they were as quick as the best that was on offer of the day - and the maximum you can get from a car has had to move on so that it's not seen hanging around with the Far Eastern riff-raff.

then i missread your statement.

 

[Master_Yoda]

I don't believe you always race tuned Lamborghinis and Ferraris, and never lose.
You're a bragger and probably a liar.

its really not hard at all, i think you guys need to actually race. theres more to it then just Top End, i'm talkin about accel, my car gets great accel, partially cause i have it very light the almost everything pointless is taken out. that makes my car 470 HP on wheels, but the dumb peeps in the ferraris, and lambos didn't take anything out, but they put in MORE, cause they don't kno how to race they just know how to spend money and make the car all nice. then it slows down there car, and puts my car in the lead. and besides i'm not a great racer. i collect my dough, and say "can't touch this, nananananna can't touch his"

 

[Azuremen]

And your attitude is impressive. Quite impressive.

In fact, its so inflated it appears... wrong. Maybe you have won a few times. Maybe thats all you've raced. Maybe you should stop trying to.. brag for a second and actually look at what is going on around you?

The NSX is the ONLY supercar to have come out of Japan on that list. The Supra, Skyline and RX-7 are not. Look at production numbers, assembly, and so on. Also, a Skyline? You need to at least say GT-R, or else you could just be talking about the 4 door luxury car, NA and RWD.

And if you think I have something against Japanese cars, yer wrong. Ask people that talk to me around here about the kinda cars I like. Its Japanese this or that.

You are trying to work your way out of a situation you got yerself into here. And you keep making the whole bigger.

ITs great that your friend has those cars. Hey, I have three cars too, and I just turned 20. So good for him, good for me?

And your comparisons are odd. You are serious when you race, stripping out stuff and all that. Modding. That crap. And then you race Ferraris and crap with fancy stuff put on them. How serious do you think those guys are? How realistic do you think that comparison is?

In racing... it goes... driver, tires, car. Of course, realistic limiations apply, depending on racing. I can make a Tercel, stock, run around an autocross event faster than a large area of sports cars.. m3s, vettes, and stuff. Mostly cause those drivers couldn't handle their cars.

So don't assume just cause you can beat a supercar, that your car is better than it. ANd don't assume that if a car can beat a supercar, it thus becomes a super itself.

 

[EvilToast]

exactly, yoda all you've done is prove what a n00b you are by braggin and getting mad over stupid stuff.

 

[Famine]

The NSX is the ONLY supercar to have come out of Japan on that list. The Supra, Skyline and RX-7 are not. Look at production numbers, assembly, and so on.

Production numbers?

Supra MkIV: ~13,000 worldwide (over 7 years). Estimated that less than half were twin turbo (from the factory).

Quick comparison...
Lotus Esprit: 10,675 worldwide (over 26 years). 1,483 V8s

There were less Supras made in its entire production run than Ford sells Focuses in 1 calender month... That does lend a small air of exclusivity.

Also, a Skyline? You need to at least say GT-R, or else you could just be talking about the 4 door luxury car, NA and RWD.

Again, that's only passably true. Purely factually, yes, there's been several models and several levels of each. On the other hand, in the UK you could ONLY buy the R33 GT-R and the R34 GT-R V-Spec. If you went into a showroom and asked for a "Skyline", you wouldn't get a GTS4.

People now associate "Skyline" automatically with "GT-R", like it or not - something Nissan have apparently acknowledged by moving the brands apart from each other.


The issue here is people's definitions of supercars. Mine rarely involves front-engined cars (I only make exception for the TVR Cerbera Speed 12), other people's might. Some people's involves pure speed - well the NSX has always been AS fast as the fastest Ferrari available (until the F430) and the R33 Skyline GT-R made it round the 'Ring quicker than any other production car back in 1995. All four would probably be as quick as some slightly-less recent supercars - Countach, Miura, Bora. Some people go on price and exclusivity - the NSX, Skyline and Supra were all priced so far above the rest of the model range that you could buy two of any other car for the same money (or three for the Honda). As pointed out above, you're about AS likely to see a MkIV Supra as you are to see a Lotus Esprit - exclusive enough?

However, some people go on badge and origin - and that means no Honda, Toyota, Nissan or Mazda will ever be a supercar until it can not only take on the best, but take the bar several notches higher.

 

[extreme car]

NSX since it has the best overall of everything

 

[McLaren]

its really not hard at all, i think you guys need to actually race. theres more to it then just Top End, i'm talkin about accel, my car gets great accel, partially cause i have it very light the almost everything pointless is taken out. that makes my car 470 HP on wheels, but the dumb peeps in the ferraris, and lambos didn't take anything out, but they put in MORE, cause they don't kno how to race they just know how to spend money and make the car all nice. then it slows down there car, and puts my car in the lead. and besides i'm not a great racer. i collect my dough, and say "can't touch this, nananananna can't touch his"

I do actually race, and where I raced and saw people racing, they, unlike the idiots you raced who were more about the looks than brains, took their cars seriously.
Come out to the Texas Motor Speedway when Lamborghini Club comes here. I doubt your ego of beating supercars will be that large.

The people you race, are ones you can't take seriously. As said before, they don't know how to drive their cars all that well then. They buy them for the look and were probably out there to show off the car rather than race.
But not everyone's like that.
But if you still think you can beat Lamborghinis, Ferraris, and what not, then head to a Gumball or Meet.

 

[Sven]

I think the definition of a supercar involves more than just performance. It's about the exclusivity and flavor of the car. I think a car should cost more than $100,000, have more than 500hp, and weigh less than 2 tons to be called a supercar. It's also got to have a particular "look" to the design that says "supercar." That is, low, wide, and distinctive.

Take Ferrari 360 Spider v. Lotus Elise. Those two cars can offer close competition on the track (though the Ferrari might have a bit of an edge), but they are not both supercars. I'd call the Ferrari a super car, but the Lotus, in my mind, is a sports car. An exotic or high-end sports car, maybe, but not a supercar. Not to say the Lotus isn't worth taking note of, or that it's inferior in any way, it's just not what I would call a supercar.

 

[Sprite]

Skyline, because i like it, nuff said.

 

[Swift]

I think the definition of a supercar involves more than just performance. It's about the exclusivity and flavor of the car. I think a car should cost more than $100,000, have more than 500hp, and weigh less than 2 tons to be called a supercar. It's also got to have a particular "look" to the design that says "supercar." That is, low, wide, and distinctive.

Take Ferrari 360 Spider v. Lotus Elise. Those two cars can offer close competition on the track (though the Ferrari might have a bit of an edge), but they are not both supercars. I'd call the Ferrari a super car, but the Lotus, in my mind, is a sports car. An exotic or high-end sports car, maybe, but not a supercar. Not to say the Lotus isn't worth taking note of, or that it's inferior in any way, it's just not what I would call a supercar.

Hmm...Well, your definition of a supercar would take all Porsche's save the GT off the list. and I dare say that the 911 Turbo is a supercar.

Supercars should ONLY be about performance, not price. Now, if you want to put creature comforts in there so Supercar = Performance + Luxury I can see that. But putting a specific price on it like you have done takes away a lot of cars that should be supercars. Like the Viper, 2006 Z06(500hp) and a few others.

I can see how this can be a gray area, but to put specific limits on it, especially price, simply isn't fair.

 

[Azuremen]

Production numbers?

Supra MkIV: ~13,000 worldwide (over 7 years). Estimated that less than half were twin turbo (from the factory).

Quick comparison...
Lotus Esprit: 10,675 worldwide (over 26 years). 1,483 V8s

There were less Supras made in its entire production run than Ford sells Focuses in 1 calender month... That does lend a small air of exclusivity.

Geez... didn't realize they were that low on the Supra :/ My bad. I just tend to see alot more Supra's than say... NSXs and what not.

Again, that's only passably true. Purely factually, yes, there's been several models and several levels of each. On the other hand, in the UK you could ONLY buy the R33 GT-R and the R34 GT-R V-Spec. If you went into a showroom and asked for a "Skyline", you wouldn't get a GTS4.

People now associate "Skyline" automatically with "GT-R", like it or not - something Nissan have apparently acknowledged by moving the brands apart from each other.


The issue here is people's definitions of supercars. Mine rarely involves front-engined cars (I only make exception for the TVR Cerbera Speed 12), other people's might. Some people's involves pure speed - well the NSX has always been AS fast as the fastest Ferrari available (until the F430) and the R33 Skyline GT-R made it round the 'Ring quicker than any other production car back in 1995. All four would probably be as quick as some slightly-less recent supercars - Countach, Miura, Bora. Some people go on price and exclusivity - the NSX, Skyline and Supra were all priced so far above the rest of the model range that you could buy two of any other car for the same money (or three for the Honda). As pointed out above, you're about AS likely to see a MkIV Supra as you are to see a Lotus Esprit - exclusive enough?

However, some people go on badge and origin - and that means no Honda, Toyota, Nissan or Mazda will ever be a supercar until it can not only take on the best, but take the bar several notches higher.

Since we don't Skylines period here.. well, tell the G35, fanboys just say Skyline and assume it must be an uber badass AWD Turbo car. Its just an assumption that annoies the hell outta me.

I agree... Super car just implies mid engine layout. Kinda like exotics usually are MR, I think supercars should be as well...

 

[icandriftbetter]

I CAN'T COUNT??? your the one who kept talkin about my first post we i was talking about my second post you want me to number them for you??? of caorse you will say no, cause you don't want everyone on GTP to know that your being a n00b,


and i need to go to more races? eh buddy were i race thers no limits
i see tuned Lambos, Ferraris, but i havn't seen them WIN, i havn't lost to one either, same with my buds, you wanna know why? we go to tracks every weekend.

and when i went to Aspin Colorado and did some racing with are 240SX, and 300ZX, we raced Lambos, Ferraris that were tunned. but we walked aout of that city a week later, $7,000 richer.

and yes i can pretty much call my friend a pro, with out your n00bish thought, hes 23 and has been racing since he was 16. he has 3 cars, yes i said 3 cars, from all that money he has won. hes making a living off of 2 days of racing a week.

cars he owns.. Toyota Supra Twin Turbo (750 HP), Mazda RX-7 (673 HP), Honda Civic (389Hp) now hes won that and spent a year on each car. and he has his own house. he payed for EVERYTHING. he one of the smartes drivers i have met. each car handles better then you can imagine, and he can go around the penalty corner at Infineon Raceway 10mph faster. now you decide if hes good or not.

las time i checked this was a GT4 site, not a i can brag about what my friends have, but i cant make the progress to have some of things for my own site