Lancia Stratos 15th Aniv Undriveable ?

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The Aniverssary Stratos is not broken. It works great. You just need to be a good driver. I used it on SEVERAL series for the National A and B groups. It works.

YOU HAVE TO SLOW DOWN TO YOUR CORNERING SPEED BEFORE YOU TURN IN. It will also help you even more if you do all your braking before the turn and then crack open the throttle at turn in and roll onto it (slowly) through the apex.

This car wants to be on the back wheels while turning. If you are nose down when you turn in, the back will wash. If you are neutral to slightly rear loaded when you turn in, it will be fine. It is a bit like one of the RR Rufs. Brake first and accelerate all the way through the corner.

This is a big think I'm seeing in the online forums. YOU HAVE TO SLOW DOWN TO TURN. And it is much easier to make a pass stick if you are passing coming out of the corner. That is you want a higher exit speed than your opponent, and a higher entry speed means you are probably doing it wrong. You want to be trying to out-racing line your opponent, not out brake them. Until you get good that is...

Bolded mine.

This is the most important thing about the Stratos - and in fact may be the most important thing about many cars. Speeds are deceptive. Look at your speedometer - and be surprised at how fast you are really approaching the corner.
 
Sorry about that, when I'm on my phone it seems to jump back to the top when I back space sometimes. I missed it that time :banghead:

edit: Fixed it.
:lol: I later figured it was something like that. Because it just didn't make sense.
Also - that BOLD was a mishap too. For some reason sometimes I accidentally have my message typed in bold & larger text. Don't know why.
 
In answer to the OP's question, no, the Lancia Stratos 15th Anniversary car is not undrivable. It is a car that has a wild side and just takes a little practice to tame. I personally like the car as its a blast to drive.
I agree, a bit of time on track to understand how it behaves, a few setup changes to personalise the handling to my liking and it is now one of my favourite cars to drive.
 
I'm a DS3 user and have used the Stratos already more than 3 yrs of GT5. TCS, ABS on 1, ASM off, steering -2. Also LSD set 5,16,9. Brake balance 8/5. It is hairy to drive, long sweepers it is right on the edge of losing it and esses have to be very cautious. But lightning fast in the straights. Overall very satisfying. Once I get more credits banked I can play with the suspension.

The AE Lotus Europa on the other hand is a pos.
 
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As an example of how the Stratos handles in-game I took my stock Stratos with SH tires into the National A MR challenge, which is for MR cars up to 500pp. The Stratos is 410pp. I thought this would be a good example of how the Stratos can be one of those "giant killer" cars. capable of running rings around much more powerful cars (it's hard to stay ahead of the GT in this video as it absolutely clobbers the Stratos on any straight. I ended up winning by a few hundredth of a second and would have taken second place if the finish line was even a few more feet down the straight).

At any rate, no great special effects or music, but here is a video of those three laps. This is with no driving aids at all and the brake balance set to 2 front / 1 rear. I use the Thrustmaster T500 wheel.

Should give some of you having a hard time some hope as there is no great drama in this video. But notice how the Stratos can run rings around most of the other cars in the corners (plus, slow GT6 AI probably makes this easier than it should be.) Really, once you "tune the driver" to the car you'll find that it is one of the best handling cars in the game. Plus, it's one of the most fun cars to drive and VERY rewarding.

Simple Stratos Video
 
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.............................long sweepers it is right on the edge of losing it and esses have to be very cautious...........................

Nailed it there - few cars are as this nail-biting to drive. And when she responds the way you dare her to . . . there is no breath so sweet as the one you take after that. (Since one is holding their breath, anyway. ;) )


As an example of how the Stratos handles in-game I took my stock Stratos with SH tires into the National A MR challenge, which is for MR cars up to 500pp. The Stratos is 410pp. I thought this would be a good example of how the Stratos can be one of those "giant killer" cars. capable of running rings around much more powerful cars (it's hard to stay ahead of the GT in this video as it absolutely clobbers the Stratos on any straight. I ended up winning by a few hundredth of a second and would have taken second place if the finish line was even a few more feet down the straight).

At any rate, no great special effects or music, but here is a video of those three laps. This is with no driving aids at all and the brake balance set to 2 front / 1 rear. I use the Thrustmaster T500 wheel.

Should give some of you having a hard time some hope as there is no great drama in this video. But notice how the Stratos can run rings around most of the other cars in the corners (plus, slow GT6 AI probably makes this easier than it should be.) Really, once you "tune the driver" to the car you'll find that it is one of the best handling cars in the game. Plus, it's one of the most fun cars to drive and VERY rewarding.

Simple Stratos Video

Great race - you were obviously enjoying yourself - you have truly befriended that car (do you have others?) You have power to spare in the corners, lightning quick acceleration on the short straights, and ample power on the long, to dance rings around most cars on that track. I feel that even if the GT took the lead in the third, you may have got it back later in the fourth and may even have won a five lapper if you had maxed out your driving skills; you handle that Stratos very well. 👍
That was a good race to watch, clean and about as well-executed as could be.

I thought I had a dozen Stratos in GT5, but I was mistaken - counting the Rally version I seem to have 14.



I give my Stratos colours that reflect something about the Cosmos - Lightning Yellow, Astro Blue, etc, etc . . . :)

 
If the car is undriveable your not driving it properly. Don't trailbrake and don't lift during the corners, and go slow in fast out. If you do those things this is a very rewarding car.
 
My lap with stock Stratos 15th AE 221HP at Nurb Gp/F, comfort hard, no ABS, 9/2 BB, stick controller, recorded with ancient camera :(

 
You have to drive it deliberately and with respect. It's not a car that adapts to your style of driving, you adapt to the car.

Sark
 
I have a build of the car which significantly reduces the over steer of the 15th anniversary stratos, just doing some final checks now...its almost fool proof but still have some flaws...will post soon
 
There is challenging to drive... then there is down right ridiculous.

There are a fair few cars coming out of the woodwork that are so bad its not even funny. Lambo's / lotus and more

And its all very well saying .. you need to learn to drive it.. and its rewarding when you get it right.. SORRY.. but you should not be driving a car for 10 laps .. and not being able to string together a few decent consistent laps...because the car is to unpredictable or undriveable.

Drive the lotus europa around the ring as fast as you can... I will bet you come off at some point if your driving it at 8/10ths or more, no matter how good at gt you are. the car behaves incorrectly.

Agree with this fully. People want to say "oh it bad driving by the user"... BS. Perfectly stated... there is challening to drive... then there is downright ridiculous. That's spot on. The Stratos behaves as if it's got the two back tires blown out. I've never had the pleasure of piloting a Stratos in real life (as one may imagine), but I'm sure as heck it doesn't handle anything like the one in the game. And this is even on flat surface tracks no less. An MR car on Matterhorn is a joke.
 
Agree with this fully. People want to say "oh it bad driving by the user"... BS. Perfectly stated... there is challening to drive... then there is downright ridiculous. That's spot on. The Stratos behaves as if it's got the two back tires blown out. I've never had the pleasure of piloting a Stratos in real life (as one may imagine), but I'm sure as heck it doesn't handle anything like the one in the game. And this is even on flat surface tracks no less. An MR car on Matterhorn is a joke.

Well, there are a LOT of factors at work here. For example, we can't actually feel the shifting of the car under our butts in the game, it's all the the wheel, so we are missing tons of feedback. There are also some very serious misconceptions on how difficult cars are to drive near the limits, and for the most part older cars are less forgiving than newer ones. I suggest going to some local track and autocross events, and if you can participate then do so. You'll gain an entirely new perspective (and will come back to the Stratos in GT6 and realize that if anything it's probably far easier to drive in-game than it is in real-life). You would be very surprised how many people you'll see spinning cars, and yeah, most of the MR cars (MR2s and Elises mostly) and RR cars are spun when people lift the right foot too far. You'll see people spin these cars at like 30mph on occasion. It really is about learning to drive the cars. Its the one thing that the GT series does very very well; make the various cars FEEL very different. That's really where the fun in this series is when you compare it to all the other sims out there (some of which are much more realistic (and much more difficult) than GT6, but which somehow can't touch Gran Turismo's ability to make each car feel unique and special). Consider that you may be missing out if you stick to cars which most closely suit your driving style.
 
Agree with this fully. People want to say "oh it bad driving by the user"... BS. Perfectly stated... there is challening to drive... then there is downright ridiculous. That's spot on. The Stratos behaves as if it's got the two back tires blown out. I've never had the pleasure of piloting a Stratos in real life (as one may imagine), but I'm sure as heck it doesn't handle anything like the one in the game. And this is even on flat surface tracks no less. An MR car on Matterhorn is a joke.

Matterhorn in Stratos ? It's a rollercoaster fun when you know how to do it :D Ok , Stratos it is not fastest thing there,but I run It almost on par with lancer VIII (2 seconds- ) which is 30 years newer car and AWD .

About ridiculous handling > Read my post from few days where there's a quote from rally driver about stratos handling , but I'll add two more from Classic Driver article > http://www.classicdriver.com/en/article/lancia-stratos-stradale>>

"The original Stradale versions (never mind the rally cars) demanded well-above-average driving skills and very fast reactions. The main problem was that the cars had a tendency to spin in corners, and many customers had accidents. But the good news was that – thanks to suspension that was extremely adjustable – this rally car for the road could be hugely improved, and given much more predictable handling once specialists got to grips with it"

and some other comment

""Also this about engine placement:
“The other thing that made the Stratos so twitchy is the engine being mounted very high in the chassis, meaning when you lift off you get a much more severe shifting of weight off the rear axle.”
Maybe if you’re Sandro Munari*, but for me, no thanks.""
*Sandro was the famous rally driver that won champ. with Stratos.

That kinda goes with how Stratos handle in GT6 . Don't you think ? I cannot tell for gamepad , but with wheel is damn challenging but once you get it and know where is the limit (you don't pass) it is rollercoaster fun . At least you don't die as in real life :D
 
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Agree with this fully. People want to say "oh it bad driving by the user"... BS. Perfectly stated... there is challening to drive... then there is downright ridiculous. That's spot on. The Stratos behaves as if it's got the two back tires blown out. I've never had the pleasure of piloting a Stratos in real life (as one may imagine), but I'm sure as heck it doesn't handle anything like the one in the game. And this is even on flat surface tracks no less. An MR car on Matterhorn is a joke.

Honestly, if it's so "ridiculous," why are many of us able to take the car and win with it without modifying the car? I'm not a great driver. I'm not lousy either. I rank 3 Bronze in the GTP WRS which means I'm sorta in the middle skill wise. When I first got in the Stratos I did terrible too, immediately chucked it back in the garage and picked another car for the race I was in because I didn't have enough time to dedicate to it at that moment. But after reading this thread at the start I decided to put in the effort and see if I could drive the car. I can as long as I drive the car as it dictates. If one can't or won't put in the time to learn to drive it properly then you're always going to be seeking a way to fix it so it suits your driving style and blaming the car. This does not make you a better driver it only sets you in your ways thus making it more difficult to learn and improve.

Stratos:
MR layout
Massive power on over steer
Massive power off over steer
Twitchy and nervous feeling but quick to change direction, very nimble

How to drive: (as stated by many others already)

Brake early and in a straight line
Early apex, turn in with power on, don't brake unless "left foot" braking while still on the accelerator.
Throttle control is essential. One needs to smoothly apply power or the car will spin on turn exit.
Don't get distracted. Focus on driving the car deliberately. Ignore that voice that tells you to keep pushing a little harder.

I want to be a better driver so I drive these difficult to drive cars to learn better car control. I've learned a LOT in GTP WRS and key to that learning is putting away any superiority complex as you'll learn quite quickly that you're not nearly as good as you think you are. Take the instruction that many have given and actually practice the techniques and you'll find that in time the car is not nearly as hard to drive as it seems now.

Sark

PS - Setting a forward heavy brake balance helps but doesn't disguise the handling characteristics like mixed compound tires does. The 5/5 balance is very unrealistic as almost all real cars have a forward weighted brake bias.

Edits: fixed typos
 
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It's a very short wheelbase car with all its mass concentrated in the middle. That alone should tell you that it's going to be prone to snap oversteer and be very abrupt when it loses grip. The car has almost no polar inertia in real life and you shouldn't expect it to in GT6.

The Stratos behaves exactly as it should. Lots of lift-throttle snap oversteer (a bit like an old 911) and near-instant turn-in mean you can't just man-handle the car. If you do some research on the history of the cars you'll find that the racers who drove it talked about it being a handful and having problems with snap-oversteer (especially on pavement). You can't pull brute-force crap with a Stratos in real life and there's no reason to expect ham-fisted driving to be rewarded in GT6.

First time out with it at Goodwood I managed a 0:58.316. I'm sure there are many who've done better, but the point is that the car is nowhere near "undrivable" if you've got some respect for the setup.

The trick with these cars is to keep some throttle on in the corners and never lift abruptly.

The real life car is difficult to drive. The GT6 car is no different. It's accurate, not broken.

Editing to add:

I think the biggest problem here is that a lot of people think that sportscars and race cars must be easier to drive because (1) they go so fast and have so much downforce, and (2) the only time most people see racing cars (or even higher-end sportscars) driven at full bore is by extremely talented drivers. The reality is that many race cars are damn near uncontrollable beasts and that the people who drive them are so good that they can keep the car right on the edge of control without going over. There's a reason that many famously fast racecars with winning records are nicknamed "Widowmaker."

The more responsive a car is, generally the less forgiving it is. And it takes a HELL of a lot more than "10 laps" to become consistent in any car, much less a dedicated racing machine, if you're working to push hard.
 
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As an example of how the Stratos handles in-game I took my stock Stratos with SH tires into the National A MR challenge, which is for MR cars up to 500pp. The Stratos is 410pp. I thought this would be a good example of how the Stratos can be one of those "giant killer" cars. capable of running rings around much more powerful cars (it's hard to stay ahead of the GT in this video as it absolutely clobbers the Stratos on any straight. I ended up winning by a few hundredth of a second and would have taken second place if the finish line was even a few more feet down the straight).

At any rate, no great special effects or music, but here is a video of those three laps. This is with no driving aids at all and the brake balance set to 2 front / 1 rear. I use the Thrustmaster T500 wheel.

Should give some of you having a hard time some hope as there is no great drama in this video. But notice how the Stratos can run rings around most of the other cars in the corners (plus, slow GT6 AI probably makes this easier than it should be.) Really, once you "tune the driver" to the car you'll find that it is one of the best handling cars in the game. Plus, it's one of the most fun cars to drive and VERY rewarding.

I've been doing the same. Using the Anniversary model, stock, on SH tyres and no aids. Won at Trial Mountain and second by a few tenths on the others. I've no idea whether the handling is realistic as I've never driven one in reality, but it was the best fun I've in GT for a long time. It's not the easiest car to drive and it did spit me off a few times when I got too cocky, but it's so involving and rewarding when you get the hang of it. I was enjoying the car so much I used it for the Festival Italia and Hot Hatch ones too (much easier, no Miuras and GTs to give you a hard time). I must say I think ABS 0 is much better in GT6. There seems to be more feel somehow. I used higher BB settings, about 5/3 I think. It didn't seem to have enough stopping power with lower settings.
 
I must say I think ABS 0 is much better in GT6. There seems to be more feel somehow. I used higher BB settings, about 5/3 I think. It didn't seem to have enough stopping power with lower settings.

I got the same feeling as well and I'm trying to run ABS0 only now but still having issues. I've gone down to a 2/1 balance (most cars) but I'm still having brake lock with as little as 25% "pedal" which is making it quite difficult to get used to. My Acura NSX locks the fronts if you even think about the brakes. I'm still winning golds but it's really hard getting used to it. I find that I'm driving a lot more cautious now so I guess that's a good thing but I don't know if it's a fast thing.

Sark
 
I got the same feeling as well and I'm trying to run ABS0 only now but still having issues. I've gone down to a 2/1 balance (most cars) but I'm still having brake lock with as little as 25% "pedal" which is making it quite difficult to get used to. My Acura NSX locks the fronts if you even think about the brakes. I'm still winning golds but it's really hard getting used to it. I find that I'm driving a lot more cautious now so I guess that's a good thing but I don't know if it's a fast thing.

Sark

I've only really tried the Stratos with abs off so I don't know about other cars, but with 2/1, at the end of a long straight, I was finding that I was braking at 100% for quite a long time before having to ease off. I'm no abs 0 purist but I do like to have a go, particularly in cars that wouldn't have had abs irl. I know I'm slower but it adds a bit of excitement.
 
I've only really tried the Stratos with abs off so I don't know about other cars, but with 2/1, at the end of a long straight, I was finding that I was braking at 100% for quite a long time before having to ease off. I'm no abs 0 purist but I do like to have a go, particularly in cars that wouldn't have had abs irl. I know I'm slower but it adds a bit of excitement.

Braking seems to be quite different from vehicle to vehicle (as it should be.) The new M4 they just added seems to be really easy to drive with ABS0. So much so that I had to go back and make sure that I had set it to 0. Even more so with the Lotus Elise Race Car '96 that I won. That car is a dream to drive with all assists off. I expected it to be a complete monster and I instantly fell in love with it! Not my Acura NSX '91 though. It is super sensitive. So bad I've considered going back to ABS1 for that car. I would but I'm forcing myself to drive 0 so I'm suffering through. I don't drive with a wheel. I think it's more difficult to drive with ABS0 on a controller than a wheel as you don't have that really long throw brake pedal to work with. I use an XBox 360 wired controller for Windows on a USB adapter. It has R2/L2 triggers that I believe give a higher level of control over throttle and brake than the DS3. Maybe that's making it easier for me but I couldn't drive GT5 with ABS0 to save my ass with the same controller. With GT6 I'm finding ABS0 to be a very rewarding but sometimes frustrating way to drive and I recommend to others to give it a shot. Stick with it, don't give up, and you can do it too! :)

Sark
 
Here's that video i promised:



The laptime was 8:19.728 and the car is probably capable of at least 5 more seconds.

This car is hardly undrivable, it gives plenty of feedback and if you listen to it, it'll drive just fine. Anyone who's raced karts in at least national levels would probably be able to drive this quite easily since the handling characteristics are quite similar to a kart. The more i drive it, the more it reminds me of a kart. The odd thing is that the actual karts in GT6 don't really feel like karts, at least not at low speeds, they seem to have too much grip and they don't seem to oversteer as easily as in real life, although i haven't even looked to see if i anything in the setup is adjustable, so maybe that's why they feel weird.
 
Brilliant lap! Loving that on-the-edge rawness of the Stratos. (BTW, I agree 100% about the Karting, they are crazy easy to drive in GT6. They didn't get the oversteer correct at all, and they didn't even bother to model the rear-only-braking systems that most Karts have. You can actually trail-brake GT6 Karts right down into the apex of a corner and then just flog the go-pedal right back down to the floor on the way out most of the time. Boring to drive, pointless, not remotely simulating real Kart racing, and just plain wrong…)
 
Brilliant lap! Loving that on-the-edge rawness of the Stratos. (BTW, I agree 100% about the Karting, they are crazy easy to drive in GT6. They didn't get the oversteer correct at all, and they didn't even bother to model the rear-only-braking systems that most Karts have. You can actually trail-brake GT6 Karts right down into the apex of a corner and then just flog the go-pedal right back down to the floor on the way out most of the time. Boring to drive, pointless, not remotely simulating real Kart racing, and just plain wrong…)

Thanks. 👍

Yeah, it's a bit of a shame about the karts, hopefully there will be some sort of major physics patch like there was with GT5 with the spec 2 update that will make them more realistic, i just hope it doesn't take as long.
 
This car is hardly undrivable, it gives plenty of feedback and if you listen to it, it'll drive just fine.

Are you having any trouble with snap-back in the steering wheel? I've tried every setting imaginable and most of the time if I let an RR or MR car step-out even a little bit off-throttle and begin to counter-steer I'll get a sudden snap-back in the steering wheel. This happens with my T500 and my G25. I've been trying to work on it in the Ruf's and Tire Physics" thread, but looking at your lap I see you get off-throttle a few times just a bit more than you probably intended but you are able to counter-steer without too much difficulty. This is the natural way I drive rear-weight-biased cars both IRL and in sims, so it's really bothering me that I'm unable to do it very well in GT6. (On occasion it's OK, but it's rare; mostly I just avoid letting the rears step out enough that I have to counter-steer.) I generally drive with no aids.
 
Are you having any trouble with snap-back in the steering wheel? I've tried every setting imaginable and most of the time if I let an RR or MR car step-out even a little bit off-throttle and begin to counter-steer I'll get a sudden snap-back in the steering wheel. This happens with my T500 and my G25. I've been trying to work on it in the Ruf's and Tire Physics" thread, but looking at your lap I see you get off-throttle a few times just a bit more than you probably intended but you are able to counter-steer without too much difficulty. This is the natural way I drive rear-weight-biased cars both IRL and in sims, so it's really bothering me that I'm unable to do it very well in GT6. (On occasion it's OK, but it's rare; mostly I just avoid letting the rears step out enough that I have to counter-steer.) I generally drive with no aids.

Are you referring to something like a tank-slapper? Where the car snap oversteers in the opposite direction you intended? Or is it actually the FFB in the wheel turning back straight?

I never use unrealistic driving aids, the most i ever use is ABS on cars that actually have ABS in real life, but even with those cars i sometimes like to drive without anything just to practice my braking. In the Stratos video i have no aids at all, not even ABS, i even have the realistic grip loss turned on, there's also nothing adjustable in the setup of that car since it's all standard, so it's nothing to do with the setup. I own the normal Stratos from the dealership as well and there's no noticeable difference between that and the AE version, if anything the AE version is more twitchy because it has a bit more power.

I'm honestly not experienced enough to really explain what i'm doing with the Stratos, but it's almost exactly the same reactions i give to a kart. I think the main thing to remember is that if you wait even the slightest before allowing the wheel to counter-steer, then you'll either have massive oversteer or even a spin, you have to let the car tell you what needs to be done and with a simulator it's much more difficult to feel what the car is doing compared to real life. That said, a lot of drivers (even professionals) try to take control of a car and try to force it to behave how they want rather than working together with the car and allowing it to show you how it behaves, i know that sounds very philosophical, but if you just learn to listen to what the feedback is telling you, then it's almost subconscious. In my video, all of those little twitchy maneuvers i'm making with the wheel is entirely based on what the cars feedback is telling me to do, i almost don't even have to think about it, i know when the car is starting to oversteer before my eyes can even register it and in a car like the Stratos, that's something that you really need, especially in a sim where there's no other useful feedback on your body. I suspect in real life that you're relying on the g-forces on your body and your inner ear senses more than you think, which is why you might have problems with a static simulator, this is actually a fairly common thing among real racing drivers, that and motion sickness.

All i can suggest is to turn the steering strength up to max and just let the wheel do all the work, if you're using the T500, then PD has adjusted the levels so that even at 10, there's no clipping. You also should remember that the steering ratios for probably every car in GT6 is lower than in real life, so everything is just more sensitive. I have my sensitivity at -2, but it's still not enough, when i first started playing i was over correcting often because of this, but i learned to deal with it fairly quickly. The FFB in GT6 is so good that even though the cars are technically more difficult to drive, i can drive the same cars easier than i could in GT5.
 
It's a tough old beast to drive but if you drive it properly it's very fun!
Do the Goodwood challenge in it until you get the gold. Its pretty easy and will give you a great idea of how the car handles. :)
 
You also should remember that the steering ratios for probably every car in GT6 is lower than in real life, so everything is just more sensitive. I have my sensitivity at -2, but it's still not enough, when i first started playing i was over correcting often because of this, but i learned to deal with it fairly quickly. The FFB in GT6 is so good

You may be on to something if the steering ratios have been changed significantly. Possibly I'm going all the way to lock much more quickly than I think. I'm getting an FFB effect of the wheel snapping back very strongly against my counter-steering, which then forces a spin. We've been discussing this issue in the Ruf and Tire Physics thread, but it also applies to other rear-weight-biased cars like the Stratos. It's preventing me from driving these cars the way I want to, and the way I know they can be driven (learning to use lift-off-oversteer properly is key to learning to drive Porsche 911s at their limit). IRL I do this all the time. I often use the "let the wheel slide" method, where I let car do the counter steering with the wheel sliding through my hands then grab it again at exactly the correct moment (that's when I let the car rotate a LOT in certain tight corners; in wider sweepers where I let a car rotate only a few degrees all the way around the corner the hands can and should stay gently gripped on the wheel). In GT6 I use no driving aids and usually keep the wheel feedback set to 10 with no power assist. But I've now tried a host of other settings and the snap-back is still there.

I agree with you that the FFB effects in GT6 are really nice for the most part. GT5 felt so "dead" compared to GT4. I'm really enjoying that part of GT6.

(BTW, I'm almost certain the sensitivity setting is for controllers only… Take a look at the description. I've tested it from -2 to 7 and if there is any difference at all it is absolute tiny on my end…)

I think maybe I threw this thread off-topic with my snap-back question. Maybe the appropriate thread for that is: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/rufs-and-tire-physics.293069/
 
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