McLaren in GT4: Welcome to the Party or Uninvited?

[JAGUAR]

You could go around in circles talking about the makers of different engines etc.
Ford own Jaguar, Aston Martin, Volvo etc. and many components are switched between companies, but they all have unique engineering to fine tune each car for that particular manufactuer.

The difference with BMW and Mclaren is that BMW funded the F1 GTR long tail program and ran works 'BMW' teams in 1996/97, not just sponsored them. As I said from 1997 all the F1 GTR long tails were designated BMW Mclarens, including the Gulf cars etc. as BMW stepped upto compete against Mercedes and Porsche.

Until Mclaren used Mercedes engines in F1 there was a plan for a new BMW Mclaren GT1 car. In the end because of the Mercedes F1 deal, BMW left Mclaren and moved there LM program to Williams. Willimas designed the BMW V12 LM and V12 LMR, which had the F1 GTR BMW V12 engine.

The best comparison is with the current BMW Williams F1 team. BMW paid for the rights to have the car named a BMW Williams, rather than a Williams BMW.

Personally I see no reason whatsoever why all the 1997 long tail cars should not be in GT4, as BMW Mclarens. With at least 200 cars still to be announced, to me, it would be very, very strange if more Mclarens were not included.

Cars could of course still be included as 'Mclarens', but this is dependent on current exclusive licenses.

 

[toler]

i´d be very surprised to see the mclaren slr in a game that already includes the mclaren bmw. i don´t think that mercedes would go with that.

 

[JAGUAR]

i´d be very surprised to see the mclaren slr in a game that already includes the mclaren bmw. i don´t think that mercedes would go with that.

Why not, they are completly different cars.

The SLR will be classed as a Mercedes not a Mclaren.

There are many companies that do work for different manufactuers. Lotusddo development work for most major manufactuers, while Cosworth have done work for everyone from Ford to Mercedes.

 

[TheCracker]

i´d be very surprised to see the mclaren slr in a game that already includes the mclaren bmw. i don´t think that mercedes would go with that.

You can't really compare the monstrosity that is the Mercedes SLR to the sublime McLaren F1. The F1 was Gordon Murray's baby - developed exactly as he & Ron Dennis wanted it, which just so happened to use a bespoke BMW engine. The SLR is a merc coupe that happend to be developed by Mclaren following Merc's own design brief.

I don't think Merc have any power to say what Mclaren can do with their own licences for the F1

Not to be picky or arguementative, but wasn't it Schnitzer who ran the 'works' McLaren F1 longtails and LM V12's?

 

[JAGUAR]

You can't really compare the monstrosity that is the Mercedes SLR to the sublime McLaren F1. The F1 was Gordon Murray's baby - developed exactly as he & Ron Dennis wanted it, which just so happened to use a bespoke BMW engine. The SLR is a merc coupe that happend to be developed by Mclaren following Merc's own design brief.

I don't think Merc have any power to say what Mclaren can do with their own licences for the F1

Not to be picky or arguementative, but wasn't it Schnitzer who ran the 'works' McLaren F1 longtails and LM V12's?

Schnitzer ran the works Mclaren in 1997, then the V12 LM/LMR in 1998/99.

Bigazzi ran the works Mclarens in 1996.

Both were BMW contracted teams. Schnitzer went on to run the BMW M3 GTR and ETCC cars.

 

[CRX]

D'ont you think the original 1995 car deserved to be in GT4prologue rather than the "long tail" version (if not both of course)?
I love the compactness of the original McLaren F1 and it has been much more succesful than the revamp (4 McLarens in the top 5 at Le Mans in 1995 is an awesome number since they were only run by private teams).

 

[phantasm]

i´d be very surprised to see the mclaren slr in a game that already includes the mclaren bmw. i don´t think that mercedes would go with that.

As Merc's new flagship, they'd definitely want it in GT.

 

[JAGUAR]

D'ont you think the original 1995 car deserved to be in GT4prologue rather than the "long tail" version (if not both of course)?
I love the compactness of the original McLaren F1 and it has been much more succesful than the revamp (4 McLarens in the top 5 at Le Mans in 1995 is an awesome number since they were only run by private teams).

Well apart from the car that won!

 

[CRX]

Well apart from the car that won!

A McLaren F1 GTR did win Le Mans in 1995 !
It was the number 59 McLaren driven by Yannick Dalmas, J.J. Lehto and Masanori Sekiya.

 

[Polyphony001]

Any car really is a worthy addition to the GT series, besides perhaps another type of Impreza, evo, skyline or Rx7. Though I would like to see the shortbody too.

 

[JAGUAR]

A McLaren F1 GTR did win Le Mans in 1995 !
It was the number 59 McLaren driven by Yannick Dalmas, J.J. Lehto and Masanori Sekiya.

My point was it was a works car, not privateer run.

Other F1 GTR teams were a little miffed a works car was competing against its customers. This car also had mods not available to the other F1 GTR teams.

One visible difference is the extra lights fitted to the nose of the car.

 

[Dave A]

i´d be very surprised to see the mclaren slr in a game that already includes the mclaren bmw. i don´t think that mercedes would go with that.

What were you on when you typed this? Why wouldn't Mercedes wan't the SLR (their new flagship and the car that was beaten on the TopGear test track ONLY by the Carrera GT) in GT4?

 

[Giancarlo]

It'd be interesting to race the Enzo and McLaren F1 over the internet with a formidable opponent..

I say yes, McLaren should have a bigger impact in GT4. Although i think it was McLaren's decision, not GT4's, to not have many models in the game.

 

[Polyphony001]

It'd be interesting to race the Enzo and McLaren F1 over the internet with a formidable opponent..

I say yes, McLaren should have a bigger impact in GT4. Although i think it was McLaren's decision, not GT4's, to not have many models in the game.

Tut tut, oh well at least there is one.

 

[ra]

It'd be interesting to race the Enzo and McLaren F1 over the internet with a formidable opponent..

I say yes, McLaren should have a bigger impact in GT4. Although i think it was McLaren's decision, not GT4's, to not have many models in the game.

i've just read ad interview with Gordon Murray (McLaren F1 desinger). he is sure that no anyother supercar has done more than his one in "exotic" world.
he is sure thar, since McLaren F1 nobody have been able to start a real evolution. only Ferrari with Enzo and its racing breaking sistem has move something. and, perhaps, him with Mercedes SLR.

McLaren F1: wonderfull car. i saw my first one (more or less) 12 years ago in london.

ra

 

[JAGUAR]

i've just read ad interview with Gordon Murray (McLaren F1 desinger). he is sure that no anyother supercar has done more than his one in "exotic" world.
he is sure thar, since McLaren F1 nobody have been able to start a real evolution. only Ferrari with Enzo and its racing breaking sistem has move something. and, perhaps, him with Mercedes SLR.

McLaren F1: wonderfull car. i saw my first one (more or less) 12 years ago in london.

ra

The brakes on the Enzo, Carrera GT and SLR are better, and the F1 is notorious for being a handfull on the limit.

Mclaren did have the advantege of having no limits on the cars final price, so could use technology that was out of the range of Porsche/Ferrari etc. for 10 years. Its only now that the Mclaren F1s technology has become avaialbe at a 'relatively' reasonable price.

 

[Dave A]

Although i think it was McLaren's decision, not GT4's, to not have many models in the game.

The key words being you think. First off we don't know if the FINA F1 GTR will be the only McLaren in GT4, secondly it comes under the BMW license, why we don't know for sure but it does so if that is the only McLaren in GT4 it would be a more logical guess that it's down to licensing and not PD just deciding not to put more in. I think if PD were allowed to put McLarens into GT4 they would put several in, including other F1's and some of the older GT cars like the M6GT.

 

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by live4speed
I think if PD were allowed to put McLarens into GT4 they would put several in, including other F1's and some of the older GT cars like the M6GT.

That's exactly what i'm saying though - maybe McLaren didn't want to put any more of their cars in.

Originally posted by ra
i've just read ad interview with Gordon Murray (McLaren F1 desinger). he is sure that no anyother supercar has done more than his one in "exotic" world.
he is sure thar, since McLaren F1 nobody have been able to start a real evolution. only Ferrari with Enzo and its racing breaking sistem has move something. and, perhaps, him with Mercedes SLR.

Accomplishments are not what i was talking about though. It'd be interesting race with two such awesome cars.

 

[Dave A]

I know what you meant, I was backing you up but the key to all this speculation is that it's all what we think not fact. There could be more in GT4, but if theres not then it will probably have something to do with EA since they have held the McLaren license, I have no idea if they still do or whats happening with that license though.

 

[JAGUAR]

I know what you meant, I was backing you up but the key to all this speculation is that it's all what we think not fact. There could be more in GT4, but if theres not then it will probably have something to do with EA since they have held the McLaren license, I have no idea if they still do or whats happening with that license though.

We obviously don't know if there will be more F1s in the final game, but why are some assuming there will be no more, due to there only being one F1 in GT4P.

Surely only one, at most two examples of most cars are in GT4P. The final 200 cars in GT4 will include the duplicates and new cars.

 

[Dave A]

The idea that the FINA F1 is the only one is not just an off the top of your head argument. The FINA F1 is for some reason not covered in the McLaren license EA has/had and can be licensed under BMW which in GT4 and GT4 at E3 is was. Since that is the only McLaren that can be done like that and that happens tp be the only one shown in GT4 so far by PD it points to the lack of a McLaren license, which would result in a lack of other McLarens. The bottom line is we don't know for sure, but I'm just pointing out that the idea of the FINA being the only one is a well thought out idea.

 

[Eagle]

Sorry to throw a spanner in this fine debate but am I the only one a bit puzzled with the "Long Tail" term? I thought all GTRs were, by design, long tail.

 

[JAGUAR]

Sorry to throw a spanner in this fine debate but am I the only one a bit puzzled with the "Long Tail" term? I thought all GTRs were, by design, long tail.

Long Tail

Short Tail

 

[JAGUAR]

The idea that the FINA F1 is the only one is not just an off the top of your head argument. The FINA F1 is for some reason not covered in the McLaren license EA has/had and can be licensed under BMW which in GT4 and GT4 at E3 is was. Since that is the only McLaren that can be done like that and that happens tp be the only one shown in GT4 so far by PD it points to the lack of a McLaren license, which would result in a lack of other McLarens. The bottom line is we don't know for sure, but I'm just pointing out that the idea of the FINA being the only one is a well thought out idea.

So again it comes down to whether all of the 1997 longtail cars were designated BMW Mclaren F1 GTRs and not Mclaren BMW F1 GTRS, and therefore could be put in the BMW garage.

Is it know for a fact that the FINA car is the only F1 GTR available under the BMW license, or just assumed to be so?

 

[JohnBM01]

Good show, Jaguar. Often times, I get mixed up as to what a long-tail car is and a short-tail one. Also nice to see you managed to find a McLaren pic featuring the same car in my most recent avatar. Now that you mention the long tail, I'm kind of curious as to whether or not we can get a long tail McLaren F1. That sweet Davidoff Classic McLaren (Davidoff had a nice fragrance out since the latest Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue) would be nice. Too bad you had to either unlock it or hack into "Sports Car GT" to find the Davidoff McLaren. You had to make what we call a "standalone" of a car, which can either be pretty easy or pretty difficult.

Anyhow, to the person who asked "why the McLaren is under BMW," don't forget. The car is powered by a BMW motor. Look at the McLaren pictures Jaguar provided on this page. Do you see "Powered by BMW" located on the doors? Look up the website I provided on the very first page of this topic for more info. Either that or call up GTPlanet's biggest McLaren fan, my girl McLaren'sAngel. Anyhow, good job, Jaguar.

 

[Dave A]

So again it comes down to whether all of the 1997 longtail cars were designated BMW Mclaren F1 GTRs and not Mclaren BMW F1 GTRS, and therefore could be put in the BMW garage.

Is it know for a fact that the FINA car is the only F1 GTR available under the BMW license, or just assumed to be so?

This is where I have to say I don't know. I've heared that this F1 GTR was classed as a BMW but I don't know why and I don't know if thats 100% accurate. But if it does turn out to be the only McLaren in GT4 then that would be the logical explanation as to why it's the only one.

 

[Dave A]

Anyhow, to the person who asked "why the McLaren is under BMW," don't forget. The car is powered by a BMW motor. Look at the McLaren pictures Jaguar provided on this page. Do you see "Powered by BMW" located on the doors? Look up the website I provided on the very first page of this topic for more info. Either that or call up GTPlanet's biggest McLaren fan, my girl McLaren'sAngel. Anyhow, good job, Jaguar.

Going by that logic Jaguar XJ220's would be Buicks, which was explained in this post "XJ220 engine - based on engine from MG Metro 6R4 groupB rally car(developed by WILLIAMS) - whose engine is based on a cut-down ROVER V8 (ie TVR etc) - which inturn was developed originally as a small-capacity BUICK engine in the 50's ! ! !" by TheCracker. I don't know why can and currentley is classed as a BMW in GT4 but it is.

 

[JAGUAR]

Unlike say an old TVR or the new MG SVR that have off the shelf Rover and Ford engines respectively, BMW were activelly involved in the design and development of the Mclaren F1.

Further to this BMW actually funded the development of the 1997 longtail car, and ran a works team.

So BMW are joint partners in the F1/F1 GTR. However as said, the longtail car was the only car designated a BMW Mclaren, so these long tail cars may be the only cars allowed in GT4. But we will have to wait and see.

Lets see what PD have up their sleeve.

 

[Eagle]

McLaren F1 GTR

McLaren F1.

Different cars, just modified, I'm pretty sure if we seek out the GTR history we'll see it was modified with a longer body to support the addition of a more effective rear wing along with meeting some specifications.

 

[JAGUAR]

Just to clarify both of the cars pictured above are F1 GTRs.

The 1997 longtail caris a totally new chassis with wider and longer bodywork in order to create more downforce and less drag. A sequential gearbox and many other mods were also added.

The original 1995/1996 short tail cars were never converted to longtail cars.