MSN 1.5hr Manufacturer's Endurance Race Series

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bloodyboyblue
Music (or, you know, any form of art, or anything with a tangible use in the real world) is 99999999999999999999999999999999999x more worth any amount of money than some garbage piece of plastic with a 1000% profit margin to play video games with a bunch of sad nerds. Don’t even say something like that again or I’m destroying you every time I see you on track and making sure you never enjoy this “hobby” again.
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I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I have no idea how anyone on earth can resell an expired music subscription, I will take the "piece of junk plastic wheel" any day of the week. In fact my pedal set has very little plastic on them, only the sensors are plastic, the rest is all aluminum, does that make my pedals more valuable?? If I have art in the form of paintings I suppose I could find it valuable in cutting it up to use as templates when I am building customer cars. :D
To some people art is just not that important, I guess I am one of those people, we will just have to agree to disagree, destroy away I guess :lol::lol:.
 
I've posted this photo before.

picture002.jpg


This photo was taken in 1999 as we just had completed the rolling chassis on my brand new oval race car. Before putting in the Motor and Transmission it did a small tour sitting out front of my sponsors stores.

This car was built and used for the lowest levels of grass roots oval racing at our local race tracks in the area. The only other cars that were lower than this was figure 8 racing and I had the 4 door figure 8 car to match this one.
Once my oval car was completed and completely ready to race I had close to $15.000 invested in it. Now that's a crap load of money for grass roots racing and that's not including any of the cost it takes to run & repair the car and the bills were all coming out of my pockets.
Yes I had sponsors but you didn't get very much from them. If memory serves me correctly my pawn shop sponsor on the car only bought one set of tires for the entire season.
So many people racing couldn't afford to repair their cars fully after each race so by the end of our season some guys looked as if they were racing a crunched up beer can.

There are cheaper stock race classes today you can run in but back in 99 this was it the bottom of the barrel.
It still gives everyone a good idea on just how expensive racing really is and why I'm sim racing now.
 
fastone371
I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I have no idea how anyone on earth can resell an expired music subscription, I will take the "piece of junk plastic wheel" any day of the week. In fact my pedal set has very little plastic on them, only the sensors are plastic, the rest is all aluminum, does that make my pedals more valuable?? If I have art in the form of paintings I suppose I could find it valuable in cutting it up to use as templates when I am building customer cars. :D
To some people art is just not that important, I guess I am one of those people, we will just have to agree to disagree, destroy away I guess :lol::lol:.
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Hey, I don’t like art either (i always roll my eyes and complain when my girlfriend drags me through a gallery, just like she does if we go to the race track) and I’d never pay for a music subscription, but it’s still better than paying more than you have to to play video games. To me someone paying thousands of dollars for some piece of paper someone vomited paint on that represents the feminist plight in the 19th century is about the same as looking for “immersion” when they’re playing games.
 
bloodyboyblue
Hey, I don’t like art either (i always roll my eyes and complain when my girlfriend drags me through a gallery, just like she does if we go to the race track) and I’d never pay for a music subscription, but it’s still better than paying more than you have to to play video games. To me someone paying thousands of dollars for some piece of paper someone vomited paint on that represents the feminist plight in the 19th century is about the same as looking for “immersion” when they’re playing games.
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Absolutely!!! But I use a wheel because I get much more enjoyment racing on a wheel than a pad, after all I think the reason we all play this game is for the amusement. Same as real racing, I know well as anyone that every penny that goes into the race car is money not spent wisely but it provides enjoyment non the less, and the best part is that it could be wadded up and worthless after just 1 unfortunate accident. But it also brings me customers so there is some value there. When it comes right down to it for the amount of hours many of us play a wheel isn't really that expensive for entertainment value. 4 hours spent taking a significant other to dinner and a movie is likely to cost over $100, that makes my wheel a bargain by comparison.
 
After competing in my first Gr.3 race with the wheel in @WhiteFlight1 race. I definitely noticed how much more balanced that class is as everyone was turning times near the fast lap record. Switching to the wheel as opened up a whole different class of racing for me in GTS that I just couldn't do on a DS4 previously.
 
MultiClass is good fun. We just ran a race in the NES with LMP vs Gr3 (Toyota v Porsche) this weekend. The only issue is that you really need a full room to make it work well. GTSport's online car limits make it tough when you're capped at 16 at best; And if you only have say 12 show up, it completely changes the competition.

Still a blast though. Difficult at small tracks to avoid carnage as the LMP drivers usually dont have the patience i find. And the slower class usually tries too hard to get out of the way, instead of understanding to hold the line and the Faster class will find the way past on their own (attempting to get out of the way abruptly makes you unpredictable and many times preceeds the accident). It takes trust on both parts. Great challenge though! Completely different type of races and excitement.
 
If we do multi class, It’d be fun to have it be team-based, we could team up a faster guy in Gr.4 with a slower guy in Gr.3.

Normally I don’t like multi class racing, for the reasons Mic listed. Why would I want to limit myself to racing against 7 other people when I could be racing against 15? If we had 30 car lobbies like on PC it’d be a different story.
 
it could never hurt to do a test one on a monthly enduro. do a PRO / AM event. Rinsky can stick the guys he thinks belong in which class.
gr3 Pro or gr4 Am

i mean seriously we sort of have races like that anyway with the multitude of skill levels in our Enduro's right? what's the difference, except for the fact that the less experienced drivers maybe aren't able to learn much from the faster guys within the race; But i dont feel like i learn much in the race itself anyway, usually Venster and those guys are long gone and i only race with them when they come around to lap me :lol:; and i'm in the middle I feel. Podiums are my goal, but realistically 4th-8th is where i fall most races as i do well on strategy.
Honestly it teaches good racecraft, because there's a lot more passing and being passed.
Some of these enduros can get lonely right?
 
micantony
it could never hurt to do a test one on a monthly enduro. do a PRO / AM event. Rinsky can stick the guys he thinks belong in which class.
gr3 Pro or gr4 Am

i mean seriously we sort of have races like that anyway with the multitude of skill levels in our Enduro's right? what's the difference, except for the fact that the less experienced drivers maybe aren't able to learn much from the faster guys within the race; But i dont feel like i learn much in the race itself anyway, usually Venster and those guys are long gone and i only race with them when they come around to lap me :lol:; and i'm in the middle I feel. Podiums are my goal, but realistically 4th-8th is where i fall most races as i do well on strategy.
Honestly it teaches good racecraft, because there's a lot more passing and being passed.
Some of these enduros can get lonely right?
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These races can get very lonely. Almost like a qualifying session!

I’d say just keep plugging away. Visit lobbies more and get a grasp of which r gulag lobbies are good etc. I learned a lot from slower drivers believe it or not. More so how not to drive in some occasions but you learn how to overtake and where you can go faster etc.
 
We could definitely do a Gr.3 & Gr.4 class for a race just to change things up a bit. It will take a bit of planning and some different rules for the race but I think it would fun.

You could go about it in different ways.

1. We all qualify in our Gr.4 cars then the top 8 get to switch to their Gr.3 counterparts. So if your Gr.4 car is let's say the Mustang then you must use the Gr.3 Mustang.

2. The same as above except the bottom 8 in qualifying get the switch to Gr.3. You do run the risk of someone sandbagging just to get a Gr.3 car but that's highly unlikely with our group.

3. Or just let everyone pick their class until 8 people fill up a class.

I think one and two and some mystery as to who will be driving what. Yes about 4 or 5 in our Series will definitely know what their driving just because they are always on top or always near the bottom but for everyone else it will be unclear what class they get in.

I'm open to suggestions
 
Rinsky
We could definitely do a Gr.3 & Gr.4 class for a race just to change things up a bit. It will take a bit of planning and some different rules for the race but I think it would fun.

You could go about it in different ways.

1. We all qualify in our Gr.4 cars then the top 8 get to switch to their Gr.3 counterparts. So if your Gr.4 car is let's say the Mustang then you must use the Gr.3 Mustang.

2. The same as above except the bottom 8 in qualifying get the switch to Gr.3. You do run the risk of someone sandbagging just to get a Gr.3 car but that's highly unlikely with our group.

3. Or just let everyone pick their class until 8 people fill up a class.

I think one and two and some mystery as to who will be driving what. Yes about 4 or 5 in our Series will definitely know what their driving just because they are always on top or always near the bottom but for everyone else it will be unclear what class they get in.

I'm open to suggestions
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I like the slower guys driving gr.3 because then they’ll get to compete for the overall victory which they don’t usually get to do, plus they’ll get to lap the faster guys for once.

I’d like to see it being one make for each class so the racing will be closer, maybe of a car that’s the same (and same drivetrain) in both classes (like the Mercedes SLS Gr.3 and Gr.4, or the Mustang or Genesis).

And I still vote for it being team-based
 
bloodyboyblue
I like the slower guys driving gr.3 because then they’ll get to compete for the overall victory which they don’t usually get to do, plus they’ll get to lap the faster guys for once.

I’d like to see it being one make for each class so the racing will be closer, maybe of a car that’s the same (and same drivetrain) in both classes (like the Mercedes SLS Gr.3 and Gr.4, or the Mustang or Genesis).

And I still vote for it being team-based
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One makes work too as keeps everyone on an even playing field.

I like the team idea as well.
 
Multi class race sounds really good, a one make race would be good or select a few real life counterparts, Aston, merc etc

We could even run a proper formation lap!

But one one make guarantees it’s all down to the driving!
 
Jw_wk1010
If a spot comes open I would like to join I'll take the Mustang #30 sponsored by death wish coffee and arl
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I got you added in and a spot is almost Guaranteed for you as well.
 
@Venster @WhiteFlight1 @docbrown40 @bloodyboyblue.

I'm going to let you guys decide on who gets the Gr.3 cars and who gets the Gr.4 cars. You guys also get to decide what car will be used and what location on our schedule gets the multi class event.
Because you all are among the fastest in the Series I'm asking you to make those decisions in anyway that's seems fit.
You are also more than welcome to discuss this matter in private chat or ask any other of the fast drivers in our group for advice if necessary.

If we are going to do teams then deciding who gets what class by qualifying just doesn't work because everyone will only have a few minutes to make that decision before the race. Plus nobody can make matching livery's.
So by doing it this way everyone will have time to pick their teammate and create a matching livery if you should choose to do so.
 
G
Rinsky
We could definitely do a Gr.3 & Gr.4 class for a race just to change things up a bit. It will take a bit of planning and some different rules for the race but I think it would fun.

You could go about it in different ways.

1. We all qualify in our Gr.4 cars then the top 8 get to switch to their Gr.3 counterparts. So if your Gr.4 car is let's say the Mustang then you must use the Gr.3 Mustang.

2. The same as above except the bottom 8 in qualifying get the switch to Gr.3. You do run the risk of someone sandbagging just to get a Gr.3 car but that's highly unlikely with our group.

3. Or just let everyone pick their class until 8 people fill up a class.

I think one and two and some mystery as to who will be driving what. Yes about 4 or 5 in our Series will definitely know what their driving just because they are always on top or always near the bottom but for everyone else it will be unclear what class they get in.

I'm open to suggestions
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As fun as it sounds to race in. I should note that you'll have regulate BoP yourself. But, If you're going to I would suggest it for Nurburgring 24h race. I don't know about it becoming a regular thing because we won't be able to run ovals.
 
Rinsky
@Venster @WhiteFlight1 @docbrown40 @bloodyboyblue.

I'm going to let you guys decide on who gets the Gr.3 cars and who gets the Gr.4 cars. You guys also get to decide what car will be used and what location on our schedule gets the multi class event.
Because you all are among the fastest in the Series I'm asking you to make those decisions in anyway that's seems fit.
You are also more than welcome to discuss this matter in private chat or ask any other of the fast drivers in our group for advice if necessary.

If we are going to do teams then deciding who gets what class by qualifying just doesn't work because everyone will only have a few minutes to make that decision before the race. Plus nobody can make matching livery's.
So by doing it this way everyone will have time to pick their teammate and create a matching livery if you should choose to do so.
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I’d vote for Suzuka or Fuji of the tracks that are on the schedule currently. If it has to be on one of the existing rounds.
 
bloodyboyblue
I’d vote for Suzuka or Fuji of the tracks that are on the schedule currently. If it has to be on one of the existing rounds.
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Please, not Fuji, I hate that place as much as Mt. Panorama. Fuji really has no good turns, maybe 1 or 2 that are OK but most seem like they are crawling speed with the 1 of the longest straights in the game.
 
fastone371
Please, not Fuji, I hate that place as much as Mt. Panorama. Fuji really has no good turns, maybe 1 or 2 that are OK but most seem like they are crawling speed with the 1 of the longest straights in the game.
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So many track haters. You'll never improve at a race track by not driving it. I like the new Fuji. No it's not the super high speed race track use to be anymore. The ending section is the challenging and has one of the most difficult last turns in GT Sport. Which creates passing opportunities.

Plus if the track wasn't redesigned it could of ended up like the Nürburgring Nordschleife in real life where almost no organization wants to race at it because it's consider to dangerous to race at. The Nordschleife is a now tourist attraction most of the year.
 
Cold Warrior
So many track haters. You'll never improve at a race track by not driving it. I like the new Fuji. No it's not the super high speed race track use to be anymore. The ending section is the challenging and has one of the most difficult last turns in GT Sport. Which creates passing opportunities.

Plus if the track wasn't redesigned it could of ended up like the Nürburgring Nordschleife in real life where almost no organization wants to race at it because it's consider to dangerous to race at. The Nordschleife is a now tourist attraction most of the year.
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I could see spending time at Mt Panorama but Fuji is just the most rinky dink track in the game with all those 10MPH corners one after the other.
 
fastone371
I could see spending time at Mt Panorama but Fuji is just the most rinky dink track in the game with all those 10MPH corners one after the other.
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Well, there is your problem. Even on comfort hards with oldest heaviest car you can find. You drive the turns faster that.
 
Here’s my thoughts on the race

Track -most suited in all the tracks for this year is Fuji as it’s wide enough, Suzuka imo is too narrow and twisty for multiclass. Unless however we eventually get spa!! Something like st croix B would be good.

Car - definitely vote one make GR3 and 4 merc AMG. Decent in both classes, easy to handle for everyone and balances everyone.

Drivers in which class - initially take a vote I think, who wants to be in GR3 and GR4 and sort it from there

Teams - definitely! A random draw one from GR3 and GR4 team up. We have an individual GR3 and GR4 winner and a team multiclass win! Ideally with GR3 and 4 wearing the same/similar livery in each team.

Quali - outlap then 1or 2 lap super pole, GR4 first and stop on track then GR3

Formation lap (optional) - start the race first lap is formation/warm up lap. Lead car is the pace car in each class, GR4 should separate slightly from the GR3 group. Max of 100km for the warm up lead car from last corner decides the GO!!!!
 
Cold Warrior
Well, there is your problem. Even on comfort hards with oldest heaviest car you can find. You drive the turns faster that.
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That 10MPH was a simple guess, I'm always too busy braking and turning, turning, and turning at Fuji to glance at speedo.
 

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