New F1 Qualifying Format for 2016.

[TRGTspecialist]

Not broken? Certainly, but not a little tired in format? Debatable.

I agree it's debatable - it's certainly a very familiar format by now which doesn't help - but personally I think boring quali sessions are just coming from a lack of competitiveness at the front more than anything else. I still enjoy the Q1 and Q2 eliminations for instance, which have remained typically competitive and varied in outcome. Maybe I'm in the minority on that though.

"Proposal A that addresses issue B is stupid because it doesn't address issues X, Y and Z" is a bit of an odd train of thought.

I also still don't get how a one day meeting, that probably took little more than a few hours, suddenly means that all other plans to address existing issues have somehow flown out the window. People will be working on those issues - having a few hours to discuss a valid alteration elsewhere will have had precisely zero effect on the progress of said developments.

I think you've got the reasoning backwards.

It's not that I think they're not working on the important issues - they clearly are working on them - it's that they're not agreeing on the solutions to them, and so in my view they turn to other ways where they think they can spice up the show/add human drama/insert cliche here etc.

So my train of thought isn't the above, it's more like "We can't agree on addressing X, Y, Z, so let's propose A to address B instead." I realise that's pure speculation on my part, but it is consistent with how the Strategy Group have appeared to operate on many an occasion.

F1 has big issues - they certainly won't be tackled at the side of a racetrack in a couple of hours

But the Strategy Group meetings are precisely where the big issues are tackled! And excuse the mini-rant, but I think it's damning of the sport's governance if such a meeting's outcomes are to tinker with qualifying, delay a decision on the big aero changes (again), and where discussion of the considerable financial problems facing the teams doesn't appear to have even been on the table (again).

 

[Cap'n Jack]

I'm curious though if the drivers really do have to stay out on track throughout each session. It seems kind of pointless, as they would set their time on the first or second lap and then spend the rest of the time trundling around keeping their tyres alive. Other than that slight concern, I'm pretty excited to see how it turns out. It's good to mix things up every so often.

To spice things up further, I'd love to see a V8 Supercar style Top 10 Shootout. Just run Saturday qualifying as usual, but the times set in Q3 would set the order of the grid for a shootout, perhaps ran on Sunday morning so the spectators get a little more for their money on that day. It works well in V8s and fans love it.

 

[Imari]

Seems interesting.

I think they probably need to look at how they assign the tyres that the drivers start the race on, as if the top ten have to start on tyres that have fifteen minutes of hard driving on them and everyone else is on fresh rubber then that's a pretty strong incentive to try and get into 11th or 12th instead of 8th or 9th.

I suspect it'll get a few tweaks, but it's a decent idea. I like the principle that they seem to be going for at least: get everyone on the track going hell for leather as much of the time as possible. Previously the vast majority of the excitement was in the final two minutes of each Q session as you see who is going to get knocked out, this spreads it out over the whole thing and allows for weird upsets.

 

[Rods]

I don't like this proposal at all. What if you run into traffic or there is a yellow flag and you can't set a lap time in time? Or you have a technical problem at the beginning of the session and can't fix it in time? It will depend much more on luck now, not on the speed the driver actually has.

I really liked the new rules, but that's the one thing I'm worried about now. It may leave a bit too much to chance in case a yellow flag happens.

They should come up with special rules for those scenarios. Maybe a yellow flag could delay the next elimination, or no one would be eliminated for the next 1min30, then two drivers would be knocked out after that. Whatever

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Having thought about it some more, here's how I would do it:

1) 24 cars, eliminated in groups of eight. The final eight cars progress to the shootout.
2) The shootout is one lap, run in reverse top eight order.
3) Get rid of the "start on the tyres you qualified with" rule. Instead, all drivers would be required to use this set during the race; it's up to them as to when.
4) Custom-made "mega-hyper-soft" qualifying tyres for the top eight.
5) Encourage the use of extreme engine maps and fuel blends for qualifying.

The idea is to make qualifying as radically different from racing as possible, where the emphasis is on setting lap times that are completely insane.

 

[Imari]

I really liked the new rules, but that's the one thing I'm worried about now. It may leave a bit too much to chance in case a yellow flag happens.

I think that's part of the appeal for them, to be honest. Ultimately, it's a spectator sport. People getting screwed out of positions (or alternately, low level teams getting far higher than they should) is exciting to watch. When the race starts, having a field that is somewhat jumbled up leads to more overtaking and more excitement.

If the point was simply to put the fastest cars at the front and the slowest cars at the back then they'd take the top times from the three practise sessions and use those to set the grid. The excitement of qualifying comes from it being a limited timeframe under potentially non-ideal and even non-equal circumstances.

We see in races how someone getting lucky and being in the right spot at the right time as it starts raining can make a big difference. Or how someone can be unlucky and get caught up in some backmarkers or a crash that they had nothing to do with. A certain level of randomness tests adaptability rather than simply raw pace, and makes for exciting turnarounds and hero stories.

Hulkenburg at Brazil in 2010 is a superb example, randomly making the right call at the right time let someone take pole who objectively had no business being there. It was exciting as hell, but it didn't really upset anything because he's never going to be able to pull that off twice in a season. And while nobody wants so much randomness that the overall title goes to someone who doesn't deserve it, there's a lot to be said for having conditions under which the little guys can sometimes take a crack at the big boys if they get a bit lucky.

 

[Peasantslayer]

I don't think this is a good idea, they should be focusing on making the racing more exciting without adding silly variables and making it more of a game of chance.

 

[mustafur]

Racing has always had a element of a game of chance.

 

[TenEightyOne]

I don't think this is a good idea, they should be focusing on making the racing more exciting without adding silly variables and making it more of a game of chance.

However, the majority of fans seem bored with Schumacher's Vettel's Hamilton's dominance in recent years. It seems to me that these proposals both shake up the grid and increase the viewability of quali.

 

[05XR8]

Great idea. At least they are thinking. A driver pits a tyre in the dirt or a locked wheel and could put them down the order. Flat tyre, spin. Game over.

Damp to wet and wet to drying qualifying will be seat of the pants viewing.

I'd open the pits at start and close the pits, unless red flag or delaminated tyre, until the session concludes.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I'd open the pits at start and close the pits, unless red flag or delaminated tyre, until the session concludes.

Keep it open and let the teams have free reign over tyres and fuel - with the condition that the slowest driver is eliminated, even in the middle of a flying lap.

 

[05XR8]

even in the middle of a flying lap.

This would be key.

 

[Imari]

This would be key.

It'll have to be. And at some point during the season someone will be on a lap that would have got them in but will miss out by seconds. Which will be hilarious.

 

[Rods]

I think that's part of the appeal for them, to be honest. Ultimately, it's a spectator sport. People getting screwed out of positions (or alternately, low level teams getting far higher than they should) is exciting to watch. When the race starts, having a field that is somewhat jumbled up leads to more overtaking and more excitement.

If the point was simply to put the fastest cars at the front and the slowest cars at the back then they'd take the top times from the three practise sessions and use those to set the grid. The excitement of qualifying comes from it being a limited timeframe under potentially non-ideal and even non-equal circumstances.

We see in races how someone getting lucky and being in the right spot at the right time as it starts raining can make a big difference. Or how someone can be unlucky and get caught up in some backmarkers or a crash that they had nothing to do with. A certain level of randomness tests adaptability rather than simply raw pace, and makes for exciting turnarounds and hero stories.

I'm sold! Great point!

 

[Ettick]

This is an interesting idea. It will make qualifying a lot more fun to watch for sure. This will also make strategy a lot deeper and make planning qualifying sessions more difficult.

But this whole format could easily be ruined if tires still die after just a few fast lap attempts. (And no, this doesn't solely depend on track rubbering or weather)

 

[TRGTspecialist]

http://sniffpetrol.com/2016/02/24/f1-announces-elimination-style-qualifying/#.Vs2MyeZSGbI

Formula 1 has revealed first details of a new qualifying format for the 2016 season which is claimed to make Saturdays fun for children of all ages.

Under the proposed new format, all the drivers drive round and round the track until the music stops. The last one to cross the line is then ‘out’ and this continues until someone has won a kazoo.

The remaining drivers then move on to Q2 where they must drive as quickly as they can whilst approaching a drawing of a donkey upon which they must pin a tail. Furthest from the correct spot in each turn is then sent to sit on the side of the room and watch, preferably without crying.

For the final part of qualifying, all remaining drivers must drive very quickly to find a good hiding place somewhere around the circuit. The last one to be found is the winner.

All drivers can then return to the pits for lashings of Tizer and cake.

‘Smashing!’ said Claire Williams, jauntily.

 

[JBF77]

I think instead of complaining about it surely we should see it in action before we make assumptions?!

 

[05XR8]

I'm just waiting for the Sunday race rules:

Last 20 laps, the race stewards press a button. Thus, rendering the hybrid systems useless. Cars drop off one by one until the last lap.


Say, a Honda might actually win a couple with this format.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I think instead of complaining about it surely we should see it in action before we make assumptions?!

Please. That sounds far too much like common sense.

 

[RX-7_FD3S]

I like this new system, qualification became quite boring and hopefully this will change things up. I just want more car on track during the qualification session, it will bring yellow/red flag and traffic so it will probably mix things up a bit more. The better drivers will shine more and it will be easier to spot those having trouble overtaking/going out track.

I dont think it will artificially create drama like some people sugested in their comment. And it's far better than a reverse grid imo.

But atm it's super early to really comment. Let's see Melbourne qualification then we'll really see how this will work.

 

[Sureboss]

I wonder if change is needed, with Manor running a capable car, Q1 might actually be entertaining now.

That all said, I quite like this idea. It should negate some of Williams strategical incompetancy too, which is a good thing.

 

[Imari]

But this whole format could easily be ruined if tires still die after just a few fast lap attempts. (And no, this doesn't solely depend on track rubbering or weather)

It also raises the issue of whether the teams actually have enough tyres for ~45 minutes of qualifying and potentially up to 2 hours of race.

Depending on how durable the supersofts are, it also makes the whole saving supersofts for Q3 rule a bit weird.

=======

One other thing I noticed, the times before first elimination are super short, especially on tracks like Spa and Singapore. You get one hot lap at best before the first elimination in Q3, maybe two in the other sessions, and so if you make even a tiny error you're out.

Forget about yellow flags and stuff. Even if nothing goes wrong we could get to Q3 and see Hamilton lock a front wheel into the first corner on his one hot lap and start in eighth. Minor errors potentially have massive consequences in this system, especially early in a session.

I like it.

 

[TheBook]

I'm cautiously optimistic about this change. My biggest reservation is drivers not having enough time to react to a change in position; if someone gets knocked down into the elimination zone while in the pits, there's not enough time to get back out and set a lap. At longer circuits, there may not be enough time to set a new flying lap even if they're out on track. I hope it works through, in theory it's not a bad idea.

 

[shoemaker]

I like the idea of this but surely it should be trialled in in say gp2 or gp3. what if it doesn't work and drivers are hitting traffic,or still in the pits...it seems there is alot of potential for this to go wrong, but i would welcome a shake up in qualification,how about maybe awarding points in qualification, as long as they leave the races alone, none of this feature race and sprint race stuff. F1 should be applauded for realising that the sport need to change and they are acting on the fans feedback questionnaire from last year.It is time to change for good of the sport and this is the first of those changes

 

[-Fred-]

Oh yeah it'll be great, Mercedes powered cars will "unintentionally" block Ferrari powered cars and vice-versa on their "I'm eliminated but I still have to get to the pits" lap...

 

[05XR8]

Oh yeah it'll be great, Mercedes powered cars will "unintentionally" block Ferrari powered cars and vice-versa on their "I'm eliminated but I still have to get to the pits" lap...

That could be fixed with a,"Oh, you can start from last place." penalty.

 

[Samus]

Oh yeah it'll be great, Mercedes powered cars will "unintentionally" block Ferrari powered cars and vice-versa on their "I'm eliminated but I still have to get to the pits" lap...

Remote controlled explosives set off as each car is eliminated, problem solved.

 

[Bakemono36]

It will be interesting to see how it all works out. I think that you will see more action throughout qualifying, instead of a mad rush at the end because if a top driver has 1 bad lap early on, they could be out.

 

[-Fred-]

That could be fixed with a,"Oh, you can start from last place." penalty.

It's the FIA we're talking about, remember.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Remote controlled explosives set off as each car is eliminated, problem solved.

Bring in Bernie's random rain at parts of the track too. That and the explosions should finally make the slo-mo-kerb-quivering replays interesting.