NFS Shift 2 - Things GT5 could/should implement.

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Gran Turismo 5, intense, racing.....
Seriously?!?!?!

People need to get off this physics thing. The physics in a video game will never be 'right'. No simulation on the planet is the same as driving a real car. There is this thing called unpredictability in real life that is and always will be near impossible to calculate properly.

Like I said, depends on your opponents. If you chose to join a "Dragrace/trading at Top Gear TT" server you can't expect a intense race. If you have a LAN with your friends, who are at the same skill level as yourself, then you will have close and intense battle.

Speaking of physics, no, a game will never have perfect physics. But I still want the physics to be as realistic as possible.
 
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But I still want the physics to be as realistic as possible.
Then don't bother playing either Forza or GT.

One of the biggest things both of those games are missing is the feel of actual weight. However, this is something Shift actually did well. Regardless of it being correct or not, it actually conveys that you are indeed driving a 1-2 ton collection of metal and fiberglass and not something with the weight of a go-kart.
 
Reports, from who, EA?

By the way, wonder how you nail the racing if the physics is wrong? Sounds like you want the atmosphere from a racetrack more than the actual racing.

No, reports from the game developers (who also made GT Legends, a very respected sim).

Try this: http://speedhunters.com/archive/2011/03/07/shift2-unleashed-gt-gt-frequently-asked-questions.aspx

and contrast it with the almost deafening silence from PD.

And sorry, but GT is by no means 'perfect' as a sim. It seems we are BOTH prepared to play a game with less than perfect physics. But I appear to be the only one that wants some actual racing in the game, too... If you prefer NO 'atmosphere', fine. Your choice. :sly:
 
Then don't bother playing either Forza or GT.

One of the biggest things both of those games are missing is the feel of actual weight. However, this is something Shift actually did well. Regardless of it being correct or not, it actually conveys that you are indeed driving a 1-2 ton collection of metal and fiberglass and not something with the weight of a go-kart.

Name a game with better physics to the a console then?
 
Real racing is FUN... You think that hundreds of thousands do it world-wide because it is BORING?

Real racing is visceral. Real racing is not putting a Veyron with Racing slicks up against a Fiat 500 on Comfort Hards. Real racing has real consequences when you 🤬 up. Real racing isn't washing your car, taking photographs of it, or collecting baseball cards. Real racing SOUNDS loud, snarly and wicked. Real racing pits fairly equal opponents against each other.

Where is any of this in GT5?

GT5 = clinical
S2U = visceral

Now, what's more fun? Clinical, or visceral..? Ask any real racer. Who would take their car to the track every weekend if it was as boring to do as GT5?
Ask them where are all that visceral effects in their training simulators.




Have you even READ any of the new physics details yet in S2U? Reports are that they are taking the 'sim' aspect of physics a LOT more seriously this time.
This is the elite mode, look at the player inputs:

[youtubehd]3v649nZKaTk[/youtubehd]

Doesn't seem much "elite" to me.


Gran Turismo used to have fun too it, but now its all detail and seriousness.
I wonder if Gran Turismo 5 is just a baaaad sign of whats to come...
Hopefully.
 
No, reports from the game developers (who also made GT Legends, a very respected sim).

Try this: http://speedhunters.com/archive/2011/03/07/shift2-unleashed-gt-gt-frequently-asked-questions.aspx

and contrast it with the almost deafening silence from PD.

And sorry, but GT is by no means 'perfect' as a sim. It seems we are BOTH prepared to play a game with less than perfect physics. But I appear to be the only one that wants some actual racing in the game, too... If you prefer NO 'atmosphere', fine. Your choice. :sly:

I don't see the point of spending huge amount of time and CPU power to fix the 'atmosphere'. What is most important, 60fps and better phyics or leaves flying around the track and decent physics?
 
This is the elite mode, look at the player inputs:

[youtubehd]3v649nZKaTk[/youtubehd]

Doesn't seem much "elite" to me.

Yack ... never mind the inset of the guy working the controls, it seemed to me there were some movements going on with the car past Pflantzgarten that were more than just yaw, roll and pitch -- like the whole thing picked up and moved to one side a bit.

I also saw a S2U vid of a Zonda R on Spa where there was some definite weirdness about the car's movement, like there were some driver aids on.
 
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02-17-11_SH_NISSAN_R32_LV2_C890_AQ_26_PS_WM.jpg


Looks pretty narrow from this pic...
 
I love GT5 but I can't wait for this game to come out as well. It just looks and SOUNDS awesome.
Not really comparing them because I don't want to.
 
Ask them where are all that visceral effects in their training simulators.



So GT5 is a 'training simulator', then? LOL :dunce:

These guys get their 'visceral' jollies by actually DRIVING an F1 car. I don't suppose you have one spare, so I can get some excitement back in my life, do you? :rolleyes:

Doesn't seem much "elite" to me.

Plenty of idiots driving GT5 with all aids off. Guess that proves GT is arcade too.

Look, 'sim' is a sliding scale. With NOTHING at the end. GT's handling isn't perfect, by a long shot. Go to the iRacing forum and spout this 🤬 over there. If you dare.

Once you man up and admit that, you may be able to talk intelligently about the issue.
 
[YOUTUBEHD]5UZCtxivNSk&feature=related[/YOUTUBEHD]

Seriously? If you think that looks and sounds realistic, give me a break:lol:

The sound engine is horrendous and the skidding problem is still there:yuck:
 
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Listen to all those gear changes. Does this sound like anyone that can drive well? So why are you expecting a nice planted car?

And, as to the sound. Once again, a sliding scale. I am prepared to accept hyped up unreality engine sounds, and you are prepared to accept totally boring vacuum cleaner, loops and phaziness unreality.

Your choice.

Go find the BMW at night on Spa video. That's a better driver, at least. Plus, don't forget, you probably hooned around when you first got a GT title. These guys are playing a beta they are completely unused to, yet. Cut them as much slack as you'd want for yourself, under similar circumstances...
 
^ Hmmmm.... The most realistic physics model ever seen in a racing game hey? Pity the car pivots on its centre, I wasn't aware that the Huayra came with crab steer :lol:

Also I think someone forgot to tell them what a twin turbo V8 sounds like... And the gearchanges?

Oh well, I will try before I buy, but these videos are really beginning to worry me because I have high hopes for this game
 
You think the cars in GT5 sound exciting? Is that an honest statement? The only car that sounds remotely exciting is the 787b. So many cars sound the exact same, with that ****** whining noise. Have you heard a real BOV in this game? If you have I will stand corrected because I have not. I'm sorry but most of these cars do not sound exciting, and so many of them sound the same. It's quite disappointing really.

Personally, I'd rather boring and not exaggerated car sounds over the reverse. And yes, many cars get an audible BOV when the turbo kit is upgraded. No, they aren't PSH PSH PSH! every 5 seconds, which is quite accurate

And you're turning down a livery editor? Lol you're REALLY in the minority.

Not turning it down entirely, which you would see if you read my post. I have no objection to realistic paint schemes and sponsor sticker application. I DO have an objection to a completely free-form paint editor allowing the hideous creations that populate games that allow such.
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Every time somebody needs to defend S2U, it's almost a requirement to put a hit on gt5 as well. :lol:

Because the person usually posting the example won't admit that GT5 has similar problems (or others just as bad or worse).

Hey, I'll say it upfront. S2U won't be perfect. Won't even be CLOSE.

Now, admit that about GT5 before you chime in, or admit the hypocrisy at least to yourself.
 
Because the person usually posting the example won't admit that GT5 has similar problems (or others just as bad or worse).

Hey, I'll say it upfront. S2U won't be perfect. Won't even be CLOSE.

Now, admit that about GT5 before you chime in, or admit the hypocrisy at least to yourself.

All i expected from GT5 was good physics and tons of cars, everything else was a bonus.

I expect better physics on S2U as compared to the previous one, simple. Actually i expect more since they said they were going to be the best racer ever.

Different expectations, no need to bash one to make the other look good. They should be able to live comfortably alongside each other and dirt3 on my shelf.
 
Ask them where are all that visceral effects in their training simulators.

Ask them where the even semi realistic graphics are... where the game portion is... oh that's right... it's not also a game... it's a dry practice device. Unlike us, those guys get their thrills on the real track... we need the thrills simulated since most of us don't get to track cars like that.

BTW is that a real simulator? It looks like some kind of mockup for a show...

This is the elite mode, look at the player inputs:

Doesn't seem much "elite" to me.

What do you feel is missing?

It looks like about what I would expect it to look like... the speeds taking corners seems approrpriate not like shooting through ridiculously fast or anything... the only thing that strikes me as odd is the way they do the look to apex/camera tilt thing which I always hate for exactly the reason it seems to be showing up here: it means you have to guess and see if your guess was right then correct when cornering becuase with no direct connection to the camera it's very hard to tell if the apparently change in direction is the car changing or just your view changing thus making it all the harder to fine tune your steering inputs.

The result for me is I always feel like I am sliding sideways (becuase I am looking into the turn but the car is not going where I am looking whereas with a locked camera the car goes where you are looking until it breaks loose) and end up taking turns too wide becuase the natural instinct is to turn and then if you slide out, turn more.

Anything that changes your field of view while driving, I feel, makes it very hard to control and is like driving through random lag or input acceleration.

Here is a similar effect in GTR, a little easier to follow as the hood of the car very clearly points the direction it's going, but I find this kind of thing to be a big hinderence.

 
You are in the minority there. If you can't hear the loops, you aren't listening. They are obvious on many, many cars. Try the Minolta... And, go to some real racing. You'll never settle for GT5 sounds again.

Maybe my ears aren't as fine tuned...::shrug::

LOL... haven't seen much BTTC, DTM and many others, have you?! I repeat... watch more racing.

And you miss the point... retaliatory AI gives you a REASON to not bash THEM. GT5, no such problem... Beat on them all you like (if they haven't already braked like a madman to get out of your way!) and they will continue to drive like they are on Xanax!

Your argument is that most drivers in most racing series will intentionally bump vehicles, risking damage, wrecks, and sanctions? Guess I don't watch enough racing then.

Who suggested DROPPING anything? But take a look at S2U's real track list, and then wipe the drool from your face! :drool:

You have my apologies here; the typical stance of one who argues in favor of more real world courses thinks the original ones are worthless and should be removed.

And I have looked at the track list. Face is still clear of drool, thank you. Real world tracks don't excite me that much, sorry.

Don't worry... they'll descend one day! Maybe that's why you don't go to REAL racing. All those yucky girls! Skimpy outfits! Shocking! :crazy:

Real mature there. Sorry if I don't need digital pussy in a car game for it to be worthwhile. Besides, you know how many complaints there would be if the girls didn't look *perfect*? That's X amount of time they could've spent on anything else that actually enhances the experience of Gran Turismo (which you clearly don't understand).

Guess you'd like drifting removed from GT5, as well... I'm not a fan of the sport myself, but I'm willing to accept it for others. But I guess it's all about YOU, isn't it..? :rolleyes:

Honestly, I wouldn't miss it, so I don't care if it's removed. I don't make use of the drifting modes, and yeah maybe that means I won't ever attain 100% or every PSN trophy...oh well.

Ask the other 99.99% of GT5 players. What level you at? See my sig.

Had you said "ask the other 99.99% of GT5 players on this board" you might've had close to an accurate statement, but even then I'd say it's closer to 70% (just judging by how threads go on the issue). I'm at level 29, near 30, in both A and B spec. Haven't sat and grinded for experience once, and only money and handful a times when there was a specific car I was working towards. And my "grind" consisted of varying events, not the same most profitable one over and over. Of course, I'll be perfectly content with my life if I never buy a single of the 20m cars, never reach level 40, or never get 100% completion in the game, and I'll definitely be okay if I don't do it within 6 months...or even a year.

Look it up... Or watch any real racing, again. They are the little bits of rubber that come off the tires as they wear out (you didn't think they evaporated, did you?), and come to rest off the racing line (sometimes called clag). They reduce grip dramatically when you get off line. Not knowing about these is a bit suspect...

Forgive me for being unfamiliar with the term "marbles." I've never heard it used...maybe a regional dialect thing. And I'll agree that would be an awesome little touch. Top priority? Hardly.

Probably because actual RACING is so bad. I NEVER wanted to do anything but drive on Shift, but that's because it was EXCITING. And B-Spec has all KINDS of reward cars that you can't win any other way. Some pretty important ones, too. Not being able to win them in A-Spec pretty much mandates you HAVE to play B-Spec.

The simple answer here is that Shift is the type of game you really enjoy while Gran Turismo is not. Is this your first foray into the series? Not much has changed in terms of game design. Various things have improved (and yes, some downgraded)...but the core nature of the gameplay remains the same. I, for one, find that to be a good thing. If GT became NFS, with all of it's absurd "Xtreme" game design elements, I'd stop playing it.

Some pretty garish liveries in real life. You SURE you've ever watched any real racing? :crazy:

Yeah, there are some bad ones in real life...unpleasant color schemes, overdone sponsor logos. Not the kinda of crap you find in Forza and other games with completely free-form paint editors...you know exactly what I'm talking about it.

No, I mean, when you drive an Arcade car (or a random choice from Shuffle Mode) the suspension is already tuned to be at least decent. There's a VAST range of base level setups in GT5, ranging from the decent to the undriveable.

As an option to the standard, stock setup...yeah that would be nice. The original post read as if to suggest the STOCK setup was tuned.

THAT tired excuse again... That's like saying a BAD soccer game is a 'ball kicking simulator' :sly: And those details are in REAL racing. But what do THEY know about what the sport needs, eh?!

No, it's that collecting cars is implemented MUCH better than racing... I'd prefer a return to emphasizing RACING, not car collecting, not 'driving', not visiting the museum, not taking photos, not trying to lord it over other games that have NOT forgotten what racing IS...

No more tired that the whining from the other side of the isle. Gran Turismo is now what it always has been:

An automotive encyclopedia with top-notch driving physics and vehicular detail, with a basic racing game wrapped around it to give players something to do.

You talk of a "return" to a pure racing game...which tells me that you never spent much time with the other games in the series, because Gran Turismo has never been that.

Yes, the racing experience could be better. The AI needs work (though is vastly improved here from earlier efforts of the series) and I'd love to see implementation of class-based racing (not necessarily real-world, licensed sanctioning bodies). I won't ever deny the racing experience could be better.

But, if enhancing the racing experience would sacrifice what makes Gran Turismo what it is (painstaking detail, a massive assortment of cars, non-racing things like photomode and the museum), I would much rather they leave it be. And though I may not be in the vocal majority, I know I'm not alone in that mindset.

In summary: not all games need to be the same experience.
 
BTW, no NEED to defend S2U on this forum...

OP is about features from S2U that could benefit GT5, and as usual, the GTDF turn it into a flamewar.

I've got a list as long as your arm earlier on that would ALL be very welcome in GT5, but somehow this devolves into a discussion about S2U's physics. Seems that GT players have given up on building GT up, and now the only way to feel superior is to tear everything else DOWN.

Sad, really.
 
[YOUTUBEHD]5UZCtxivNSk&feature=related[/YOUTUBEHD]

Seriously? If you think that looks and sounds realistic, give me a break:lol:

The sound engine is horrendous and the skidding problem is still there:yuck:

Oh my, I expected the bad physics, but I didn't expect the bad sounds :crazy:

That's almost as bad as the sounds from 16-bit console era...
 
Personally, I'd rather boring and not exaggerated car sounds over the reverse. And yes, many cars get an audible BOV when the turbo kit is upgraded. No, they aren't PSH PSH PSH! every 5 seconds, which is quite accurate
Shift 2's sounds may not be entirelly accurate but they are far closer to reality than most of GT5's.

If you watch Le Mans or F1 cars trackside it's one of the most awe-inspiring things you will ever experience and much of that is down to the sounds, when the cars backfire you can physically feel it in your chest.

GT5 is great but it also has massive flaws so it's about time PD started learning as much from the competition as they have learnt from PD.
 
Pretty obvious the S2U shot is from further to the right than the RL camera. Take that into account, and yes, close enough.

Actually that photo is taken front just in front of the wall and the game shot is taken mid corner, but looking further down the track you can see my point :)

Either way the track is wider in game than it is in real life, but only the die hard Bathurst fans will notice (it's my cross to bear). It's better than no Bathurst though 👍
 
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