No Restrictions = No Challenge = No fun?

[prymet1me]

We are calm, there has been none of the histrionics you list, no ranting, we're just discussing that we prefer the old method, then debating why with the people who don't think the game should be that way.

I think all through the discussion the running theme has been those of us who want a challenge are happy for PD to include a free exp & cr mode for people who don't think accessing anything in the game should be a challenge as long as there is a challenge also on offer for us. If some of what I've read about the recent batch being possible in stock tune is true, then that's what they've given us and every one is happy.

But a few people debating the other side of it don't seem to be willing to concede a middle ground would be best, and just seem to want to debate with us for the sport of it. Which kind of proves our point that men want to be challenged and want an obstacle to overcome and will argue the sky is green to get it.

...crap, great reply. 👍 One of the best ones on the other side of the restriction argument I have seen.

I think we all just want more from A Spec to be honest. NOT SAYING THIS TO START ANY KIND OF FLAME WAR JUST A COMMENT>>

PD could have "borrowed" Forza's handling of difficulty vs % of prize money for races and events like Corvette vs Viper, Executive sedans etc. They have some events like k cup but they need more..much more.

 

[Devedander]

I didn't mind when they were restricted. I play a simalar way now as I did with the restrictions except for now I put sports softs on and nothing else if it can't be done in stock form. On the restricted I put non power increasing mods on the car's i.e clutch , adjustable gearbox etc.




True but I doubt they could win the events in stock form or just with a better set of tyres. So like I said in my first post they will spend more cr on mods than I will so they will not be getting as good a profit as me.

My answer to that is that it's not the same as having restrcitions... having restrictions forces you to get as good as the restrcitions need you to be, upgrading your car until it's "doable" reduces the games dificulty until it matches yours.

I am not saying there is anything wrong with that, if that's how you like it cool, but it's absolutely not the same thing.

Basically for me just upgrading my car (power or non power related) equates to this:

Which I don't appreciate nearly as much as being given a very hard challenge and then meeting it.

What I suggest is take a look at the immaculate challenges that Amar is putting up, he and a group of his friends are doing PDs job in testing what the limits are of winnable setups so that you can try to improve to meet the challenge without worry that you are wasting your time on an impossible challenge.

If you race a few of the immaculate challenges I think it will give you an idea of how different the results are of "upgrade it if I find it unwinnable" and "meet a preset difficult challenge".

Again not saying either is wrong, just saying they are not the same at all and thus saying "well if you don't have restrcitions just do it this way" is kind of like saying "well if you don't have steak just eat sausage". It might be close but don't try to say one is a replacement for the other.

As has been said before, I am not saying force restrcitions, let people have it both ways, put up suggested restrictions or maybe give a bonus for meeting restrictions... but don't take away restrictions because there is no replacement. As I said, Amar and his group of friends are doing PDs job and spending hours testing and retesting what's possible and even that's not infallible (just because none of them can do it doens't mean it's not possible) and their challenges are pretty much limited to tire and HP changes because the possibilities when you start throwing in tuning changes are just beyond reason without insider access to see exactly what the limits of each change are by the numbers...

 

[redreevos]

And before I hear another moron spew the ignorant chant of how if we want a challenge we can turn off all the aids, try for two hours to find the right tires to use and the right settings, then close one eye and hop on one foot while doing the challenge to make it what they said it was going to be in the first place, why don't you try to understand there are some people who are playing the game to be challenged.

I am sure that all of us "morons" have no where near your iq. Clearly you must be better than all of us at life and at driving a virtual car. Really this isn't that big of a deal.
I posted a link to a nice thread that someone was nice enough to create with true challenges. If you want a challenge in the GT5 game go there. If you just want to bash people and whine, then I guess this is the location. Although, I don't think you earn much respect from those here with those comments.
I ran the Dodge Challenger race yesterday with an upgrade from hard sports tires to medium sports tires. No other modification, no oil change. Passed the last car with 1.5 seconds to spare on the last lap. I will give you a challenge, as I have not heard anyone doing that challenge stock(although I am sure there are many on this forum that can), let alone lapping the field 5 times as you stated.
And as far as hopping on one leg and all that. Someone else has already done the work for you and created the "Imacculate Challenge" thread. All you have to do is be patient enough to wait one or 2 days for the nice people on this forum to create that for you.
I, also, liked the challenges before. They were fun, and tough to beat. But, I for one, am not so bent about it, that I am going to call my fellow community brothers names. I just don't see the point. Every one is entitled to their opinion. Just because your opinion is yours, it does not necessarily make it better than others.

 

[birksy82]

My answer to that is that it's not the same as having restrcitions... having restrictions forces you to get as good as the restrcitions need you to be, upgrading your car until it's "doable" reduces the games dificulty until it matches yours.

I am not saying there is anything wrong with that, if that's how you like it cool, but it's absolutely not the same thing.

This is the best explanation of this I have seen so far 👍. You are right they are not the same now as they were with restrictions as now there is the easy way out if it's too difficult. Before they were lifted the only 2 I couldn't gold were the focus and mustang events I got silver. After they were lifted I put the sports softs on and although they still weren't what id call easy I managed to get gold. The difficulty was in the tyre restrictions more than anything else imo. I was looking at the immaculate challenge thread yesterday I haven't tried them yet but I am going to as i enjoy a challenge myself.

 

[DopeDemon]

Bring back restrictions...!!!


and while your at it scrap concept cars (and why do we need 25 different RX-7s while theres no RX-7 race, 5 would do)

 

[OldF@rt]

I'd say that the easiest way to maintain some sort of challenge is to drive the race with stock tyres , upgrading the tyres takes a lot away from the challenge . I still believe that PD have done the right thing by allowing players to determine their own difficulty level. 👍

Actually I do the opposite - generally fit racing soft tyres and have only minimal engine mods.

 

[iLex]

For the people who want the challenge it all comes down to discipline now. I think by removing the restrictions it has become more challenging for you: Do you have the discipline to not tune?

There is a lot to be said for this point. I am in favour of keeping this game fun for as many people as possible and removing the restrictions does this.

If I like the event I will keep trying stock. If I don't like the event I am very glad I can tune untill I like the event

 

[Shadou]

it would be cool if you get extra exp for less upgrade, since there isn't any restriction, I remembered in GT4 you get more pts for have a slower car then the cpu.

but either way i'm happy it easy money and exp, I prefer the normal ingame event, chuck on comfort hard and try to drift around people racing lolz

CPU AI: "Bloody Hoons"
Human: "SMELL THE DIGITAL TYRES BURNING!!!!"

 

[BigYoSpeck]

I think I've found the solution and it's taking my own advice ironically. A while back I asked why people who want it easy need the gold trophy, they should be happy with bronze or what ever they can achieve.

So I figure the best way to keep this a challenge is to just do the same. The cr and exp was never important to me so I'm going to stick to stock cars and then aim for the highest result.

So far the 207 GTI and Touring car events were a doddle, gold first time. I've silver on the TVR one but only 2 seconds behind the leader so that can be done. I'm not doing the David Schwimmer one because it's not fun to drive and I'm on 4th on the 8C but I suspect it's also possible stock.

 

[Darrencuk]

I think people should stop moaning about it just drive it stock if you think your good enough but you need to think of new comers and people who dont get time to sit infront the ps3 all there lifes to get that good at it a chance that's it rant over fed up reading it murrrrr it's not fun drive it stock simple stop bitching lol

 

[Bandwidth815]

I have more fun winning, then flipping out because I can't beat a race.

 

[Darrencuk]

Same

 

[BigYoSpeck]

I have more fun winning, then flipping out because I can't beat a race.

And we have more fun winning them than ticking the gold trophy check box

 

[ThaSyn]

They should add both restricted and unrestricted. I like the unrestricted because of the easy money, but they feel nowhere as rewarding as for instance the ford focus or rx-7 challenge

 

[sdstig]

This is just in response to all of the people that complain about the lifting of restrictions on the seasonal events. Restrictions and challenge are what you make them. If you want a challenge, impose some restrictions on yourself. Run sport tires or don't tune the care all the way up. PD does an excellent job of allowing up to challenge ourselves if we want. Free will is a wonderful thing. PD isn't making us run fully tuned cars. Just my 2 cents.

Exactly. That's why there's both restricted events and non-restricted events. Sometimes, I just want to make money, so I do the non-restricted events. Other times, I want more of a challenge (which is usually more fun) so I do either the restricted challenges or I do a non-restricted challenge in a stock or equally tuned car.

 

[Talon Lardner]

This is the best explanation of this I have seen so far 👍. You are right they are not the same now as they were with restrictions as now there is the easy way out if it's too difficult. Before they were lifted the only 2 I couldn't gold were the focus and mustang events I got silver. After they were lifted I put the sports softs on and although they still weren't what id call easy I managed to get gold. The difficulty was in the tyre restrictions more than anything else imo. I was looking at the immaculate challenge thread yesterday I haven't tried them yet but I am going to as i enjoy a challenge myself.

I am the same way myself; there's a difference too between a good challenge, and "fake" difficulty. While I didn't mind the restricted events at all as I thought most tended to be fair in their difficulty, the unlimited events tended for me to be much harder stock, to the point that it wasn't fun in some of the events to get blown away. Besides too, the more you upgrade your car, the less profit you make off of that event.

 

[MiseryStreak]

something else to consider is that not all of us have the will or the means to spend an absurd amount of money on wheels, pedals, special seats, etc.

with a DS3 and my average or less driving skills I simply am incapable of competing with you people with really hardcore setups who spend hours a day grinding every track and memorizing every corner.

does that mean I don't deserve to earn money, win challenges, and collect cars? Why should I have to spend hundreds of dollars ontop of the price of the game and thousands of hours of my life to complete a $50 video game?

You will NEVER complete the game, this is what you and a large number of mainly new GT players are failing to realise, this game is for people who enjoy driving cars. Who gives a crap about PS3 Trophies? What a pointless waste of time. If you aren't enjoying playing the game then you are wasting your life, are you going to have all your PS3 Trophies engraved onto your headstone?

If you have to use a wheel to get gold on any seasonal event then you aren't very good at driving games, sorry. Go back to playing FIFA or whatever.

 

[smrtb0mb]

Polyphony could solve this problem very easily. Make it easy to earn cash and buy cars. Just make the golds for the higher-level events difficult.

For the seasonal events, I'd like to see every event restricted by HP/weight/tires (and maybe some make/year/country requirements to make it interesting.)

But make it so that the 1st race is easy (i.e. bad AI), the 2nd a bit harder, 3rd harder, etc. until the final race is quite difficult.

Just give out lots of money for "participation". Come in last place? No problem, you get $50K or whatever. Go spend it on a different car and try some other tuning setups.

The fundamental problem with GT5 is that money is too scarce and the restriction-free events are too easy. Because of this, the game has become more about money and "credit farming" than driving.

GT5 has 2 main draws for the general public: One: 1000+ vehicles to explore and two: challenging races to win. The way the game is set up they've sabotaged both. So both the casual players and the experts are failing to get what they want out of the game.

If it was easy to earn money and buy cars, then "Joe public" would be satisfied that they can buy any dream car they want to try, tune it however they like, etc. That's the content they paid for and should be allowed to use it no matter how bad they are.

The golds and trophies however should not be easy to get (at least at the higher levels.)

I also think that it's dumb how Polyphony seems to classify vehicle races as "easy" and fast cars as "hard." I'd prefer to see a mix of fast/slow vehicles at any difficulty level.

As players we shouldn't be forced to try and re-try races with limited settings until we can find a difficulty level that's challenging but not impossible. This is Polyphony's job as a game developer, it's NOT the player's job!!

(Oh by the way, first post here by me. Sorry it's a rant, but this topic has been bugging the hell out of me, lol.)

 

[C_Monster]

I'd like the restrictions to be reinstated personally. I'd also like the A-spec and B-spec races to be given similiar restrictions. It doesn't feel like real racing to me when there are basically no rules to any of these races. I want to feel immersed in the game, like I'm actually living it. Thus far the only way that has happened for me is if I venture online.....which is unfortunate.

 

[pay2021]

 

[Dave_Panic]

@smrtb0mb

Great post. You've actually hit the nail right on the head!

Especially this: "I also think that it's dumb how Polyphony seems to classify vehicle races as "easy" and fast cars as "hard." I'd prefer to see a mix of fast/slow vehicles at any difficulty level."

 

[maxpontiac]

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=170129

Well. It looks like both the Hatfield's and the McCoy's get their way.

/thread

 

[SlipZtrEm]

something else to consider is that not all of us have the will or the means to spend an absurd amount of money on wheels, pedals, special seats, etc.

with a DS3 and my average or less driving skills I simply am incapable of competing with you people with really hardcore setups who spend hours a day grinding every track and memorizing every corner.

does that mean I don't deserve to earn money, win challenges, and collect cars? Why should I have to spend hundreds of dollars ontop of the price of the game and thousands of hours of my life to complete a $50 video game?

Nothing's stopping you from earning credits, winning (some) challenges, and collecting cars. The only difference is you won't win them all, or earn the maximum credits in each event.

And really, what's wrong with that? Gold isn't given to everyone in racing, and the same applies to GT. The rewards are biggest for those who can complete the most difficult tasks, which makes sense to me. There's nothing wrong with having challenges in the game that not everybody can beat - every other game does that too.

This cryptic announcement from PD about something that might be more difficult than the now open-tuning Seasonal Events will probably, I imagine, resemble those first Bonus Races. For those who find them too hard, there will still be the regular ones we're getting now. Win/win in my books (and probably more credits ).

 

[BigYoSpeck]

The none 'elitist' will still complain. The seasonal events had absurdly high cr and exp for even coming 5th or 6th, more than winning any A-Spec event, something well within the grasp of pretty much any one who can hold a controller. But because there was the prospect of a gold trophy and even more cr and exp it was apparently unfair if you had to be good to earn it.

PD should create a new event call Openings and rather than being scored in a traditional sense we can all be given a crocodile in racing lines.

 

[GT5CHECKMATE]

This thread needs to go. Stop whinning, don't mod your car and play it as a challenge. Are people really that upset that others can use this as a quick cash grab?

Or better yet, don't even play them. You don't need them to complete 100% of A-spec.

NO!!!! People needed to stop whinning after the first couple of seasonal events came out back when they made sense. They were perfect when they first came out and now they are a joke. My 9 year nephew can do them with out half trying. If you want a free money grab then fine put in a money grab button so all you no driving slackers can be happy. I don't even care if they leave these laughable challenges in the seasonal events but give us all something. Bring back a few of the real challenges the way they started out, so those of us who wish to be challenged can have something also. Otherwise just do away with the whole concept. The season events started out perfect and now are a joke that damages the concept of the game.

Make them the way the started or GET RID OF EM!!!!!

 

[JeffKill]

Make them the way the started or GET RID OF EM!!!!!

So if it's not the way you want, no one should have them at all? 👎

I liked the restricted ones better as well, but all the pissing and moaning on these forums isn't getting anywhere.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

NO!!!! People needed to stop whinning after the first couple of seasonal events came out back when they made sense. They were perfect when they first came out and now they are a joke. My 9 year nephew can do them with out half trying. If you want a free money grab then fine put in a money grab button so all you no driving slackers can be happy. I don't even care if they leave these laughable challenges in the seasonal events but give us all something. Bring back a few of the real challenges the way they started out, so those of us who wish to be challenged can have something also. Otherwise just do away with the whole concept. The season events started out perfect and now are a joke that damages the concept of the game.

Make them the way the started or GET RID OF EM!!!!!

Get rid of them just because you don't like them anymore? You're not the only one doing the events.

 

[GT5CHECKMATE]

Get rid of them just because you don't like them anymore? You're not the only one doing the events.

That works both ways there hero. We liked them just fine the way they were and a bunch of whinning brats complained enough that they ruined them. So if you guys don't like em it's ok to get rid of em, but if we don't like em we are just supposed to put up with it??

No if they want to make it fair leave a bunch of free cr races in like there are now and add the same number of races back to the way they were when they were fun and meant something to win. Then we can both be happy. But let me guess, you can find something wrong with that too, right?? It is not enough for us both to have something, it all has to be about you.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

That works both ways there hero. We liked them just fine the way they were and a bunch of whinning brats complained enough that they ruined them. So if you guys don't like em it's ok to get rid of em, but if we don't like em we are just supposed to put up with it??

No if they want to make it fair leave a bunch of free cr races in like there are now and add the same number of races back to the way they were when they were fun and meant something to win. Then we can both be happy. But let me guess, you can find something wrong with that too, right?? It is not enough for us both to have something, it all has to be about you.

I'm not taking sides. Before, I didn't mind the difficulty that much. If I had a hard time, all I had to do was come here and see what other people were doing differently so I could win.

My point was, it's not fair to anyone for a feature to be removed all together just because one side doesn't like them. If they kept restrictions, and people were complaining they were too hard and wanted them gone all together just because they couldn't do it, that wouldn't be right either.

 

[GT5CHECKMATE]

I'm not taking sides. Before, I didn't mind the difficulty that much. If I had a hard time, all I had to do was come here and see what other people were doing differently so I could win.

My point was, it's not fair to anyone for a feature to be removed all together just because one side doesn't like them. If they kept restrictions, and people were complaining they were too hard and wanted them gone all together just because they couldn't do it, that wouldn't be right either.

I agree, yet that is exactly what happened. So if it was good enough to do it that way the first time they should do it that way again, or fix it so we can both have something.