PD, this is how the Enzo should be, hmmm...

[Zenith]

I think it's PD's fault that the Enzo handles so poorly, every car review I've seen on it (granted that's not many) has been a rave. Maybe it's the complex TCS system that was messed up, but I expected less understeer.

 

[Bigbazz]

I think it's PD's fault that the Enzo handles so poorly, every car review I've seen on it (granted that's not many) has been a rave. Maybe it's the complex TCS system that was messed up, but I expected less understeer.

I don't think it handles poorly, its performance is amazingly close to real life.

Example : Watch the first video posted, the thing is like a wild animal with its backend all over the place, understeering and oversteering, but its very fast theres no doubt about that. Pretty much mirrors the experience i had with the car in the game. If you drive it wrong it will understeer and oversteer, but when you get the sweet spot it is an amazing car, lets not forget though, the Enzo is nowhere near the fastest road/supercar on a track.

Example 2. In the real world the Enzo's time was almost identical to the time of the 458 around the top gear test track, when i tested the 2 cars in the game i came to the same conclusion, they both had different strengths and characteristics but the laptimes were within 0.1s of each other.


I don't see how anyone can come to the conclusion that the car is underperforming in the game, where is the evidence? All the evidence i see points to PD having done a great job modeling the physics and performance of it.

 

[FosterG]

Enzo, I hate them so much . . . that I have three of em and I'm not done yet! Guess my avatar is a giveaway.

 

[Yev]

Edit, missread Bigbazz's post.
Enzo is just overrated and overpriced, at least Veyron is extremly fast.

 

[xNEVER-ONEx]

The Enzo for me is the best looking car in the game.

 

[Yev]

It's look is amazing, I agree.
But the problem is many people love the Enzo, they find it their favourite car.
They can't wait to drive it in GT5 andwhen they do - then they get dissapointed and then they blame the game when in fact - the Enzo is not the fastest or best behaving supercar, it was just the first supercar which was made in 21st century.
The Ferrari made their exclusive sales campaign to make the car appear more exclusive, exotic, superior to other supercars when in fact it doesn't.

 

[RB6]

Don't get me started on how awfully bad it sounds in GT5

Extremely disappointed after spending 1 million credits on it

wow man I completely agree on this

what they tried to do was simulate eddie griffin's enzo accident
but he has no experience he was going almost 200 kmh and then turned on the max possible steering angle and then locked the wheels and thats with road tyres... and then he said wheels locked brother can't drive

ofcourse it would lock it had road tyres and he was going 200 kmh then turned on the maximum angle then brakes on the fullest just 100 meters before the wall

In GT5 the enzo has got racing slick tyres and even 1040 KG with a good F1 wind tunnel and F1 technology it shouldn't be understeering also in nurbugring I dont get it why doesn't it stick on the road???

the enzo was made purely of downforce and F1 windtunnel why are they trying to **** the enzo in GT5?

the snap oversteer is quite real on the Enzo

 

[Bigbazz]

wow man I completely agree on this

what they tried to do was simulate eddie griffin's enzo accident
but he has no experience he was going almost 200 kmh and then turned on the max possible steering angle and then locked the wheels and thats with road tyres... and then he said wheels locked brother can't drive

ofcourse it would lock it had road tyres and he was going 200 kmh then turned on the maximum angle then brakes on the fullest just 100 meters before the wall

In GT5 the enzo has got racing slick tyres and even 1040 KG with a good F1 wind tunnel and F1 technology it shouldn't be understeering also in nurbugring I dont get it why doesn't it stick on the road???

the enzo was made purely of downforce and F1 windtunnel why are they trying to **** the enzo in GT5?

the snap oversteer is quite real on the Enzo

Your post makes no sense to me. In real life the Enzo is not that fast, i think that is the whole point a lot of people miss.

It is not one of the fastest supercars. If you can't drive the Enzo, you're probably expecting too much from it. It's a very fast road car, but it's not a high downforce racing car.

For reference, part of the top gear power lap list.

Ariel Atom V8 1.15.1
Bugatti Veyron SS 1.16.8
Gumpert Apollo 1.17.1
Ascari A10 1.17.3
Koenigsegg CCX (with Top Gear spoiler) 1.17.6
Noble M600 1.17.7
Pagani Zonda F Roadster 1.17.7
Caterham R500 1.17.9
Bugatti Veyron 1.18.3
Pagani Zonda F 1.18.4
Maserati MC12 1.18.9
Ferrari Enzo 1.19.0
Lamborghini LP670 SV 1.19.0
Ferrari 458 1.19.1
Ariel Atom 1.19.5
Lamborghini LP560 1.19.5
Ferrari Scuderia 1.19.7
Nissan GT-R 1.19.7


Now you drive the Enzo in GT5 around the same track, and you will get very similar results. Its almost scary close.

 

[Enzo309]

The first time I drove the Ferrari Enzo in november it was a great car but actually soon over the months I think there was an update that completely ruined the car and transformed it into a human destroyer.

the tub is made from carbon fiber - 10x stronger than steel but so light I could pick it up with 1 hand and its the same story with the body then theres the suspension in normal cars there are rubber components to make the ride more comfortable but you wont find them in an F1 car so you wont find them in the enzo either

Im sorry to have been so technical but its important you know what this car can do and what it does.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/23932409@N00/2206992672/sizes/z/in/photostream/

see those fans?? those are made to suck air and spit it out to create more downforce, more grip and therfor less chances of becoming human fireball.

because theres no rubber in the suspension Bang! you turn the wheel and its just incredible i have not known any car that cornners like this one , nothing


Now im not talking about the enzo being a car that was only developed by Ferrari top in motorsport racing themselves but it was also mainly tested by 7x F1 world champion Michael Schumacher and he actually owns both an Enzo and an FXX it has been designed to be a civilized grand prix car for the road


but be worried because in GT5 if you try cornering like Schumacher , there will be understeer.

 

[Enzo309]

The Enzo also has terrible brakes. It's not a super car, it's a car that you show off. I'm just glad they didn't call this car the F60!

The F40 is a great car, but I wonder, where is the F50 in this game?

it is called the F60 lol.

 

[RB6]

Your post makes no sense to me. In real life the Enzo is not that fast, i think that is the whole point a lot of people miss.

It is not one of the fastest supercars. If you can't drive the Enzo, you're probably expecting too much from it. It's a very fast road car, but it's not a high downforce racing car.

For reference, part of the top gear power lap list.

Ariel Atom V8 1.15.1
Bugatti Veyron SS 1.16.8
Gumpert Apollo 1.17.1
Ascari A10 1.17.3
Koenigsegg CCX (with Top Gear spoiler) 1.17.6
Noble M600 1.17.7
Pagani Zonda F Roadster 1.17.7
Caterham R500 1.17.9
Bugatti Veyron 1.18.3
Pagani Zonda F 1.18.4
Maserati MC12 1.18.9
Ferrari Enzo 1.19.0
Lamborghini LP670 SV 1.19.0
Ferrari 458 1.19.1
Ariel Atom 1.19.5
Lamborghini LP560 1.19.5
Ferrari Scuderia 1.19.7
Nissan GT-R 1.19.7


Now you drive the Enzo in GT5 around the same track, and you will get very similar results. Its almost scary close.

the reason why is because it oversteers too much and they just couldn't risk the car its the same story in the nurburgring even though its as stable as an F1 car through the corners the wheelspin makes snap oversteers

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

By the time it released, it was maybe the best super car in the world. I think only a MC12 came close.

And yes. You are on of those guy who only think of performance, when speaking of "ultimate super car".
This car came out at 2002, the hight of Michael Schumachers and Ferraris dominance in F1. There are much more people in this world who know what the Ferrari Enzo Ferrari is and think of it as the ultimate driving machine, then people who regard soulless sportscars like a Zonda or Veyron that high.

And yes, just wait till Ferrari releases a successor. Ferrari know how to built high performance vehicles. Those guys are able to build very good race cars, I doubt that Pagani or Bugatti could outperform Ferrari, if Ferrari intented to build a road car with only performance in their mind.

I'm struggling with this statement. You have no idea, no clue, no conception of a brain impulse leading to the creation of thought, what you are talking about. The Pagani company probably has more passion than all others combined. If you call up Pagani, and have the required funds, they will actually build you a Zonda, even though they are out of production. They are modern day coach builders, they are artisans. Every car they create is a handbuilt masterpiece. Soulless? My word, I actually feel sorry for you.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUW5HnRlYBg&feature=related

 

[Enzo309]

watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dq1ijPWY5ZY

doesn't have downforce like race cars?? yeah right.

3000 hours in F1 wind tunnel , F1 engine , F1 technology , developed by ferrari's engineers in motorsports racing division

the enzo's chassis acts as the wing itself just like on a Formula 1 car

that is why when the car is stock you wouldn't even need a big ugly wing even in the nurburgring because the chasiss itself is a wing and there is a mini wing that goes up on certain speeds which offers optimum cornering performance


it doesn't matter if your car has downforce if its aerodynamics is useless then the downforce would be useless as well

its not like F1 windtunnel or F1 engine and technology from the Ferrari Enzo or even F1 tested by Michael Schumacher 7x F1 world champion

but I mean in GT5 the enzo would absolutely fly in nurburgring and create a big fireball in the middle of the road

very unrealistic indeed but on a track like top gear atleast it doesn't fly but it does have quite an immense understeer especifically in GT5.

 

[MercilessOne]

7:25.21 around the Nurburgring. Quick guys! Let's recreate this in GT5! This particular Enzo had a broken electronic damper too. For all we know, it could have been much faster.


BTW, anyone have a good tune for this car? I really want to drive this without dealing with that massive understeer, and I'm currently using the RKM Motorsports tune, which is helping a bit, but it's still a handful.

 

[-=DV=-]

watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dq1ijPWY5ZY

doesn't have downforce like race cars?? yeah right.

3000 hours in F1 wind tunnel , F1 engine , F1 technology , developed by ferrari's engineers in motorsports racing division

the enzo's chassis acts as the wing itself just like on a Formula 1 car

that is why when the car is stock you wouldn't even need a big ugly wing even in the nurburgring because the chasiss itself is a wing and there is a mini wing that goes up on certain speeds which offers optimum cornering performance


it doesn't matter if your car has downforce if its aerodynamics is useless then the downforce would be useless as well

its not like F1 windtunnel or F1 engine and technology from the Ferrari Enzo or even F1 tested by Michael Schumacher 7x F1 world champion

but I mean in GT5 the enzo would absolutely fly in nurburgring and create a big fireball in the middle of the road

very unrealistic indeed but on a track like top gear atleast it doesn't fly but it does have quite an immense understeer especifically in GT5.

none of that means the car has anywhere near as much downforce as a race car , It just measn the same tools were used to optimize it. Proof of this lays in the simple fact that ferrari saw fit to add wings to the the FXX...If the enzo was everything you spew it is, They would not have touched the body at all now would they?

Fact is, the Enzo IS a very skatey car with very little downforce for its power and speed. That is just how ferrari build their street cars. Keeps them feeling exciting and raw rather than clinical, predictable and boooring

 

[Enzo309]

none of that means the car has anywhere near as much downforce as a race car , It just measn the same tools were used to optimize it. Proof of this lays in the simple fact that ferrari saw fit to add wings to the the FXX...If the enzo was everything you spew it is, They would not have touched the body at all now would they?

Fact is, the Enzo IS a very skatey car with very little downforce for its power and speed. That is just how ferrari build their street cars. Keeps them feeling exciting and raw rather than clinical, predictable and boooring

yeah those are only mini wings on the FXX its not like an LMP1's wings

and whats the difference between the enzo and the fxx? 200 hp.

little downforce?? huh

have you ever heard the head engineer of ferrari say the enzo is purely made for downforce


you think its overrated huh??

well watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fD5NgW7FoIg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UFUERLiB0U quotes

perfect steering , perfect brakes , per perfect handling , perfect power , if you dont agree with us then this is your perfect dream car we think your having the wrong dreams

^_^

 

[RB6]

watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oe8R0i117Qo


It certainly has F1 aerodyanmics in it

the nose of the car like on a Formula 1 car like the F10 or F2007 maybe

the bottom of the nose of the Ferrari Enzo channels air underneath the car straight to the F1 diffuser at the rear

the top of the nose also channels air and pretty much the whole body of the enzo produces something called F1 aerodynamics

there is also a wing at the back that lifts at speeds which require optimum downforce

everything is pretty much F1 inspired


when watching videos in youtube theres hardly any body roll at all because of the F1 aerodynamics

but yet again the snap oversteer is the main problem they say

everytime you pull one of its gear leavers it disenganges the clutch then re engages it again and orders a burst of torque and stops the back of the car from squatting all in 150 mili seconds (.15 seconds)

even the V12 engine is F1 but tuned for the road

everything is F1 on the ferrari enzo


In the nurburgring it did 7:25 although it had a suspension-damper problem half way through and the ferrari engineers reconed it could do less than 7:20 if it went well

 

[Enzo309]

I am serious the first drive of my enzo in Nurburgring was in november just when the game just released and it felt quite good then over the months something / someone crazy changed it

can PD please check the script / data of the Ferrari Enzo
cause someone might have made a mistake on like if the downforce is supposed to be 100 maybe he put negative -100

lol my ferrari enzo is literally like a human fireball in the nurburgring now
it keeps flying , it keeps understeering , it keeps snap oversteering
I mean the snap oversteer is quite real but im not sure about the flying and understeering


the whole chassis aerodynamics is made to stick like a Formula 1 car not to fly like a fireball

it only weighs 1250 kg and has a perfect weight distribution just like a Formula 1 car

the suspension is mounted to the gearbox and has no rubber components just like an F1 car

the nose is F1 just like an F1 car

the engine is a tune for the road V12 just like in an F1 car

the test driver / development was driven / developed by 7x F1 world champion michael schumacher and ferrari engineers just like in an F1 car


Please! I dont want to drive my enzo like a human fire ball

Please! I dont want lies in the enzo or I will tell Michael Schumacher!!

 

[zedextreme8177]

I want that first track!

Rijeka Circuit, looks like a sickle

well one, ones being driven and the other is being revved. So its going to sound different anyway. 2, the one in that video is tuned. When they're stock they have a much deeper tone, more like the real life one.

You probably didn't watch the second video completely, when they accelerate

Do you know how different a flatplane V8 and a V12 sounds?

Flatplane V8 (similar to the ones on the Italia and F430):


Ferrari 599 V12 (almost the same engine as the Enzo has)


It would sound good on a car which has a V8, but it doesn't change the fact that is still sounds nothing like the Enzo V12, even with stock exhaust. They could've used the sounds from the 599, considering it actually sounds like a V12 is supposed to.

GT5 Enzo, doesn't matter if it is tuned or not. Compare to the Modena video.


Enzo from GT5 demo, notice how it has the same distinctive exhaust note of the V12 in the 599 video?

 

[Bigbazz]

You can argue all you want about F1 aerodynamics and how it should be faster in the game. But you're still ignoring the fact that in real life its performance is what matters, not the fancy words.

In real life the Enzo made similar times to the 458, Lamborghini 670, and in GT5 those 3 cars at the same track also make times within 0.1 second of each other.

You can't argue with pure fact, you can love the Enzo, it is a beautiful car and i am not disputing it, it is a fast car and i am not disputing that. But you're going around talking about wind tunnels and F1 technology while ignoring the hard facts of performance. Are you assuming that other top supercar manufacturers don't have access to wind tunnels? come on now.

The Enzo is great but many supercars (not just the ones on the list) have surpassed it in performance and especially cornering ability (458), as for the racing car version the FXX, Pagani's Zonda R is a more capable machine of the same type.

 

[Enzo309]

You can argue all you want about F1 aerodynamics and how it should be faster in the game. But you're still ignoring the fact that in real life its performance is what matters, not the fancy words.

In real life the Enzo made similar times to the 458, Lamborghini 670, and in GT5 those 3 cars at the same track also make times within 0.1 second of each other.

You can't argue with pure fact, you can love the Enzo, it is a beautiful car and i am not disputing it, it is a fast car and i am not disputing that. But you're going around talking about wind tunnels and F1 technology while ignoring the hard facts of performance. Are you assuming that other top supercar manufacturers don't have access to wind tunnels? come on now.

The Enzo is great but many supercars (not just the ones on the list) have surpassed it in performance and especially cornering ability (458), as for the racing car version the FXX, Pagani's Zonda R is a more capable machine of the same type.

Im not assuming they have no access but they dont have the same experience and technology as Ferrari nor have they had a 7x F1 world champion develop the car throughout the years same goes with the engineers in the racing division of Ferrari which you can see are top of "motorsports racing" in almost all aspects

you can't ignore the fact that the enzo is having immense understeers and is flying in tracks ( this is the opposite of the real car ) so you see why it shouldnt be like this.

the Ferrari Enzo's double difuser on the back alone develops the same downforce of an LMP1 race car's rear but the advantage is that most of it comes from the rear that gives it less drag than wings but still the enzo's body in F1 aerodynamics acts as the wing itself


The feel of the enzo is similar to LMP1 cars , a lot of downforce but a lot of wheelspin and snap oversteering.

the reason why the lap times are hugely at average hypercar level because of its "snap oversteer" there's no understeer issue on the ferrari enzo



There's no ignoring the fact in the real world it only weights 1250 kg that and with weight reduction it can even go up to 1040 kg but the problem is in GT5 there is no downforce at all and the facts on maranelo factory making and reviews are that the enzo is purely made for downforce , the enzo is a flying fireball in the nurburgring and its not sticking the front enough either.

Like what I said the first enzo in GT5 back in November was hugely I would say was a real "Enzo" but some update ruined it and totally made it like a human fireball , I just dont really get it.


the FXX was driven by Michael Schumacher Im assuming you know that and he doesn't know the track anyway , how many times have you seen Michael Schumacher win in F1 when he was a rookie?? He didn't stand a chance because he was still learning the tracks and now he's 7x world champion in the same way in top gear he wasn't even close to being a rookie driving a race car in top gear test track , so dont go and compare FXX and Zonda R because its useless to compare someone whose driven in Top Gear for 10 minutes compared to someone whose driven in Top Gear for decades.


The ferrari enzo does oversteer but the "real ferrari enzo" isnt in GT5 right now.

 

[Bigbazz]

Im not assuming they have no access but they dont have the same experience and technology as Ferrari nor have they had a 7x F1 world champion develop the car throughout the years same goes with the engineers in the racing division of Ferrari which you can see are top of "motorsports racing" in almost all aspects

you can't ignore the fact that the enzo is having immense understeers and is flying in tracks

the Ferrari Enzo's double difuser on the back alone develops the same downforce of an LMP1 race car's rear.

The feel of the enzo is similar to LMP1 cars , a lot of downforce but a lot of wheelspin and snap oversteering.

the reason why the lap times are hugely at average hypercar level because of its "snap oversteer" there's no understeer issue on the ferrari enzo



There's no ignoring the fact in the real world it only weights 1250 kg that and with weight reduction it can even go up to 1040 kg but the problem is in GT5 there is no downforce at all and the facts on maranelo factory making and reviews are that the enzo is purely made for downforce , the enzo is a flying fireball in the nurburgring and its not sticking the front enough either.

Like what I said the first enzo in GT5 back in November was hugely I would say was a real "Enzo" but some update ruined it and totally made it like a human fireball , I just dont really get it.


the FXX was driven by Michael Schumacher Im assuming you know that and he doesn't know the track anyway , how many times have you seen Michael Schumacher win in F1 when he was a rookie?? He didn't stand a chance because he was still learning the tracks and now he's 7x world champion in the same way in top gear he wasn't even close to being a rookie driving a race car in top gear test track , so dont go and compare FXX and Zonda R because its useless to compare someone whose driven in Top Gear for 10 minutes compared to someone whose driven in Top Gear for decades.

Yes but you're still ignoring the performance facts, which is what i have tried to point out. You're saying "The Enzo has this and this, and it was developed by these and its awesome because of this, etc etc etc", but that still doesnt change the fact that it is slower than other cars.

The first corner in the first video posted in this very thread shows the Enzo understeering before power oversteering, so there is your proof of understeer.


Schumachers is arguably the greatest racing driver of all time, his lap around the top gear test track in the FXX was phenomenal, the Zonda R is simply a faster car. The new stig was the guy who drove it, and guess what... He only just got the job, he has only been in this 1 series.



Look you can argue that the sky is green and the sea is purple, it still doesnt make it so. The Enzo was a great supercar, it still is, but please don't be so ridiculous as to compare it to a racing car, when it has been proven that it is not even the king of roadcars.

 

[Enzo309]

Yes but you're still ignoring the performance facts, which is what i have tried to point out. You're saying "The Enzo has this and this, and it was developed by these and its awesome because of this, etc etc etc", but that still doesnt change the fact that it is slower than other cars.

The first corner in the first video posted in this very thread shows the Enzo understeering before power oversteering, so there is your proof of understeer.


Schumachers is arguably the greatest racing driver of all time, his lap around the top gear test track in the FXX was phenomenal, the Zonda R is simply a faster car. The new stig was the guy who drove it, and guess what... He only just got the job, he has only been in this 1 series.



Look you can argue that the sky is green and the sea is purple, it still doesnt make it so. The Enzo was a great supercar, it still is, but please don't be so ridiculous as to compare it to a racing car, when it has been proven that it is not even the king of roadcars.

New guy? what are you talking about do you actually think Ben Collins was the real stig and is gone now because it was revealed out of parliament off hamond's crash , you'd be wrong because top gear only does that to trick people like you.

you cant tell me the sky is green or whatever rainbow you see because the Enzo right now is like a fireball in tracks.

you dont get the real enzo compared to the gt5 enzo

 

[Bigbazz]

New guy? what are you talking about do you actually think Ben Collins was the real stig and is gone now because it was revealed out of parliament off hamond's crash , you'd be wrong because top gear only does that to trick people like you.

you cant tell me the sky is green or whatever rainbow you see because the Enzo right now is like a fireball in tracks.

you dont get the real enzo compared to the gt5 enzo

Man you need to stop smoking and get back to the real world. You keep believing in blind faith. Despite the facts on the table.

 

[Enzo309]

Man you need to stop smoking and get back to the real world. You keep believing in blind faith. Despite the facts on the table.

what are you talking about? that doesn't even make sense.

you keep denying with words that dont make any connection

You dont even get what "flying" and "understeering" is

better watch the Enzo in the nurburgring

if I tried doing that it would end up in the wall either flying or understeering now

 

[Bigbazz]

what are you talking about? that doesn't even make sense.

you keep denying with words that dont make any connection

You dont even get what "flying" and "understeering" is

better watch the Enzo in the nurburgring

if I tried doing that it would end up in the wall either flying or understeering now

The Enzo understeers in the first corner of the first video in this thread (how many times do i have to say this?) before he tries to correct it and he overdoes it on the throttle causing the backend to come out, but it certaintly did understeer. All cars understeer if you push them too hard into a corner.


Look, its well known as a fact that the performance of the Enzo is similar to the 458, and similar cars. No matter what excuse you use its time on the top gear test track proves this. In GT5 the times at the top gear test track are again very similar to the real life cars in comparison.

No matter how much you talk your way around it, it still doesnt change that the Zonda R (Driven by the new stig, if you want to make up fairytales that is your choice) completely thrashed the time of the FXX that was driven by Schumacher.

No matter how much you talk about the technology, the facts of the Enzo remain, and you can keep arguing that black is white, but you cannot change that. The Enzo is a previous generation supercar, the technology has been surpassed and the level has been raised.

 

[Enzo309]

The Enzo understeers in the first corner of the first video in this thread (how many times do i have to say this?) before he tries to correct it and he overdoes it on the throttle causing the backend to come out, but it certaintly did understeer. All cars understeer if you push them too hard into a corner.


Look, its well known as a fact that the performance of the Enzo is similar to the 458, and similar cars. No matter what excuse you use its time on the top gear test track proves this. In GT5 the times at the top gear test track are again very similar to the real life cars in comparison.

No matter how much you talk your way around it, it still doesnt change that the Zonda R (Driven by the new stig, if you want to make up fairytales that is your choice) completely thrashed the time of the FXX that was driven by Schumacher.

No matter how much you talk about the technology, the facts of the Enzo remain, and you can keep arguing that black is white, but you cannot change that. The Enzo is a previous generation supercar, the technology has been surpassed and the level has been raised.

still you are trying to come up that its a real enzo but its not its flying and understeering

yes it did understeer at the first corner

but barely.

 

[Bigbazz]

still you are trying to come up that its a real enzo but its not its flying and understeering

yes it did understeer at the first corner

but barely.

I have no idea what you're trying to say in the first sentence, and yes it did understeer, that is all that matters.

 

[Enzo309]

I have no idea what you're trying to say in the first sentence, and yes it did understeer, that is all that matters.

Dont try and say you have no idea because I know you understand exactly what Im saying

understeer yeah . barely.

anything understeers but the enzo ? barely did

also hardly any roll not even a percent close to flying

 

[GeneralJesh]

I see Ferrari propaganda around here