Penalty system rant + video evidence

[MDJCM]

1 minute video, 3 examples:


Am I doing something obviously wrong? I've been driving carefully and not pushing anyone off track. Yet I'm getting massive 10 second penalties

 

[TheGeologist]

1 minute video, 3 examples:


Am I doing something obviously wrong? I've been driving carefully and not pushing anyone off track. Yet I'm getting massive 10 second penalties

Wow, that's actually ridiculous. I have not had that experience at all

 

[Macboyilija]

There are some other threads where you could have better posted this.

In the first part you are being punished because you were hit from the back and the computer could not recognize this. The second part is not strange: you hit him hardly at all, but the system makes a difference between hitting someone and staying on the track and going off the track. In your video the car you hit went off the track so that is indeed a 10s penalty. Your bad luck however is that the car did not go off track because of you, but because he cut the corner himself. The computer did not see this and frankly I think no computer could see this.

They just need complete other algorhythms as suggested by many others. My solution was a simple connection to a damage model.

 

[cleanLX]

all three are for hitting the car in front... the first one is unfortunate as you got shoved into him...
It's been 10seconds for touching your opponents rear bumper with your front for some while now.
Some folks continue to do it and complain/cry... definition of insanity...

This particular penalty may not be liked, but it is very consistent in this regard, so, I'm not sure that broken applies...
If PD removes it... well... punters heaven.

 

[Macboyilija]

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/penalty-system-is-still-a-piece-of.378725/

 

[Sven Jurgens]

all three are for hitting the car in front... the first one is unfortunate as you got shoved into him...
It's been 10seconds for touching your opponents rear bumper with your front for some while now.
Some folks continue to do it and complain/cry... definition of insanity...

This particular penalty may not be liked, but it is very consistent in this regard, so, I'm not sure that broken applies...
If PD removes it... well... punters heaven.

Hmm so you're ok with getting a penalty for getting bumped into another car, or unavoidably bumping a car that suddenly stalls from hitting something, or someone doing a small brake check mid corner then taking a short cut right after. Broken as in not functioning as intended very much applies.

It's punters heaven anyway, as you yourself said in the other thread replying to @vvise getting away with murder. You said that after this, so perhaps you changed your mind already

 

[TJC_69]

1 minute video, 3 examples:


Am I doing something obviously wrong?

Yes.

1. Driving with chase view.
And
2. Braking too late in the slipstream into your opponents bumper.

 

[Vegard]

The first one shouldn't be a penalty for you and 10 seconds for those small taps is excessive.

But, you broke the most fundamental racing rule: Don't run into the back of the car in front of you.

 

[sundaydriving]

The first one shouldn't be a penalty for you and 10 seconds for those small taps is excessive.

But, you broke the most fundamental racing rule: Don't run into the back of the car in front of you.

Not only applicable for racing either. Its a fundamental rule when driving.

Insurance companies will laugh in your face if you try and claim no-fault against running into the back of someone else.

 

[mclarenLB]

1. Driving with chase view.

This is complete and utter opinion and not objective whatsoever, one of the fastest guys at the World Tour was a full time Chase Cam user.

 

[MDJCM]

Yes.

1. Driving with chase view.
And
2. Braking too late in the slipstream into your opponents bumper.

1. Fair enough, I just find it gives me the peripheral vision I need in online racing that you would get in real life. Otherwise it's hard to "sense" another car has come up beside you. I used interior cam for years in single player.
2. Fair point, but it's not 10 seconds of penalty if the other driver is hardly disturbed. A lot of "rubbing" happens in world touring cars and that doesn't seem to result in massive penalties

There are some other threads where you could have better posted this.

In the first part you are being punished because you were hit from the back and the computer could not recognize this. The second part is not strange: you hit him hardly at all, but the system makes a difference between hitting someone and staying on the track and going off the track. In your video the car you hit went off the track so that is indeed a 10s penalty. Your bad luck however is that the car did not go off track because of you, but because he cut the corner himself. The computer did not see this and frankly I think no computer could see this.

They just need complete other algorhythms as suggested by many others. My solution was a simple connection to a damage model.

Thanks that's really detailed. In the one where the other car then cut the corner, is that a tactic some people use? Would the other car have dodged a penalty for cutting the corner because he had just received a tap?

 

[cleanLX]

Hmm so you're ok with getting a penalty for getting bumped into another car, or unavoidably bumping a car that suddenly stalls from hitting something, or someone doing a small brake check mid corner then taking a short cut right after. Broken as in not functioning as intended very much applies.

Not ok with it at all, thus my "unfortunate" qualifier.
However 2 of his 3 penalties were self inflicted based on this penalty system, so, I think my comments apply.

It's punters heaven anyway, as you yourself said in the other thread replying to @vvise getting away with murder. You said that after this, so perhaps you changed your mind already

Ya, that video was crazy, I'm off to see if anyone has posted about being able to game that.
I know we both posted in the "unpopular opinions" thread, and I'm starting to believe that blame will never be placed fairly, and think PD should simply penalize all cars involved, taking the "game the system" variable out of Sport mode.

 

[fastone371]

all three are for hitting the car in front... the first one is unfortunate as you got shoved into him...
It's been 10seconds for touching your opponents rear bumper with your front for some while now.
Some folks continue to do it and complain/cry... definition of insanity...

This particular penalty may not be liked, but it is very consistent in this regard, so, I'm not sure that broken applies...
If PD removes it... well... punters heaven.

I'm not sure I would call hitting the rear bumper of the car in front penalty consistant. It seems many times I get hit from behind and pushed into the car in front and get my 10 seconds but the guy that hit gets nothing. Just happened yesterday in 1 of the 2 races I ran

 

[cleanLX]

I'm not sure I would call hitting the rear bumper of the car in front penalty consistant. It seems many times I get hit from behind and pushed into the car in front and get my 10 seconds but the guy that hit gets nothing. Just happened yesterday in 1 of the 2 races I ran

Yep... I'm starting to think that is the "game" or is a game-able thing...
As long as who you smash in turn smashes another as part of the sequence of events... you get away with it...

 

[TJC_69]

This is complete and utter opinion and not objective whatsoever, one of the fastest guys at the World Tour was a full time Chase Cam user.

An opinion is just that, an opinion. In chase view it's harder to see how close you are to the car in fronts bumper. Common sense I would've thought.

 

[mclarenLB]

An opinion is just that, an opinion. In chase view it's harder to see how close you are to the car in fronts bumper. Common sense I would've thought.

The way you called it out you made it sound like Chase View being 'wrong' was a fact. It isn't. Its just as effective as any other view in the right hands.

 

[Azerach]

Driving in C/C you have to expect others to be a bit wild with their lines and braking points, turning speed etc. Can't expect to be able to race bumper to bumper.

 

[TJC_69]

The way you called it out you made it sound like Chase View being 'wrong' was a fact. It isn't. Its just as effective as any other view in the right hands.

User was having penalties from close racing bumper contact. Asked what he was doing wrong. I point out 2 ways which I see an area of improvement. Then you jump in to rigorously defend chase view...

Only trying to help the guy. No need to get so defensive about a view choice

 

[mclarenLB]

User was having penalties from close racing bumper contact. Asked what he was doing wrong. I point out 2 ways which I see an area of improvement. Then you jump in to rigorously defend chase view...

Only trying to help the guy. No need to get so defensive about a view choice

One of my big tips that I give people to improve is to find your comfort zone and embrace it, if the guy is most comfortable in chase cam, it might not be an objective improvement to switch view is what I'm trying to get at.

Its similar to when people try to jump in a 'meta' car that they suck in, even though they'd be half a second faster driving something that suits them. I'm just providing the other side of the perspective.

 

[VBR]

People should drive in whatever view they feel comfortable with, & PD should provide us with optional mirrors in all views to facilitate cleaner racing. Just because Kaz thinks certain views are "too easy" doesn't mean everyone else in the world does, & limiting options in video games merely because of one size fits all thinking doesn't help anyone.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Not ok with it at all, thus my "unfortunate" qualifier.
However 2 of his 3 penalties were self inflicted based on this penalty system, so, I think my comments apply.

True. The last one is kinda odd though, the car he tapped is the one that stalled after bumping another car off track. Yet the car he tapped never went off track. Perhaps the penalty was transferred? Another gaming the system moment, brake check the car behind when you punt someone off? Too bad we can't see if the other car got a penalty as well as everyone is flashing red...

Ya, that video was crazy, I'm off to see if anyone has posted about being able to game that.
I know we both posted in the "unpopular opinions" thread, and I'm starting to believe that blame will never be placed fairly, and think PD should simply penalize all cars involved, taking the "game the system" variable out of Sport mode.

That's how it was in DR.A before the update, every contact a penalty, even getting punted, a penalty. There the system was 100% wrong and 100% right. Now it's more 50/50 with a lot going unnoticed. However if you drive safe and avoid all contact (that you can control) you still end up with 100% faulty penalties as the ones you will get are from getting punted into other cars or getting other cars punted into you and taking the penalty for it.

Giving everyone involved in contact a penalty isn't going to work either. Think of how much damage one car in the backfield not braking for T1 can do! PD really needs to spend some time on figuring out how to assign penalties correctly. It will never be perfect, yet it doesn't have to be as often wrong as it is now. There are more than 2 cars on the track!

 

[fastone371]

True. The last one is kinda odd though, the car he tapped is the one that stalled after bumping another car off track. Yet the car he tapped never went off track. Perhaps the penalty was transferred? Another gaming the system moment, brake check the car behind when you punt someone off? Too bad we can't see if the other car got a penalty as well as everyone is flashing red...



That's how it was in DR.A before the update, every contact a penalty, even getting punted, a penalty. There the system was 100% wrong and 100% right. Now it's more 50/50 with a lot going unnoticed. However if you drive safe and avoid all contact (that you can control) you still end up with 100% faulty penalties as the ones you will get are from getting punted into other cars or getting other cars punted into you and taking the penalty for it.

Giving everyone involved in contact a penalty isn't going to work either. Think of how much damage one car in the backfield not braking for T1 can do! PD really needs to spend some time on figuring out how to assign penalties correctly. It will never be perfect, yet it doesn't have to be as often wrong as it is now. There are more than 2 cars on the track!

Since you have so many races completed, especially starting from the rear I think PD should consult with you on penalty system improvements. Just sayin.