Physics

Discussion in 'Driveclub' started by GTguy88, Mar 14, 2015.

  1. GTguy88

    GTguy88

    Messages:
    273
    Every time I pick up the game to play i get excited for some visual bliss, until I begin a race and the physics are incomprehensible. Boy are they terrible. I can't do a clean lap with the AI cars around me.
     
    SynGamer and Football67611 like this.
  2. Football67611

    Football67611

    Messages:
    1,029
    Location:
    United States
    I completely agree with you. Coming from GT6 and a DFT, I traded up for a PS4 and Thrusmaster T300. I play Driveclub and can be successful but, every time the physics get in the way of the fun. I have enjoyed Arcade racers in the past, however, I do not enjoy the feeling of the way the cars handle. DriveClub has improved from their launch date. Unfortunately, I simply do not enjoy it the way I have other racing games due to the physics.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2015
  3. Brend

    Brend Premium

    Messages:
    11,715
    Any more insight as to why you find them bad aside from them being 'incomprehensible'? Personally, I found the physics engine very easy to get to grips with and whilst being very arcadey, it still has a level of depth to it.
     
  4. GTguy88

    GTguy88

    Messages:
    273
    It's unpredictable and I can't comprehend why things happen the way they do. In other words, it's so unnatural and unrealistic that it's very difficult to "learn" the physics in the world within the game and be good at it. It's really unfortunate I spent the $54 for it and can barely play it.

    At least ridge racer and NFS games there was a learning curve and then you became a pro at it.
     
  5. TonyJZX

    TonyJZX

    Messages:
    3,655
    this^^^

    i WANT to like Driveclub because it seems like a lot of people seem to love it

    What am I missing out on? Remeber you are on what is ostensibly a Gran Turismo forum... I can accept GT6, Forza 5, Horizon 2 all at max fidelity models with no aids... in that case one would assume Driveclub with its ONE arcade/simcade drive model would be easy to pick up

    I'd put it like this... it seems like Rushy never ever drove a car before, never ever driven any of THESE performance cars before but decided to make a 'simcade' based on what he thinks a car should drive thru chinese whispers. The drive model in Driveclub is very very foreign, had little feedback to the player, will tip over to an undriveable state with little warning and had primative rumble feel.

    I'd genuinely like to talk to a long term GT6/Forza player who LIKES Driveclub to tell me what I'm missing out on.
     
  6. Bethany Dawn

    Bethany Dawn

    Messages:
    348
    Location:
    United States
    I bought DC to hold me over till PC comes out. I find myself just hot lapping due to how I dislike how the cars handle. There seems to be to much understeer. I can't get the cars to rotate through the corners the way I feel they should. And don't get me started on the ai. Also an automatic should never be faster than a manual transmission.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2015
    willbegone likes this.
  7. UkHardcore23

    UkHardcore23

    Messages:
    2,091
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Compared to Horizon 2 the physics are abysmal, However if you forget about physics DC is a good game for an arcade title. Just depends if you want to forget about half realism/realism if you do you will have fun!
     
  8. torque99

    torque99

    Messages:
    6,212
    I kind of understand where you are coming from but also agree with @Classic, and you have to think this was never released as a sim and they can't tread on the toes of GT7! So they set their own driving model. I actually found DC pretty easy to get into and the handling is pretty smooth and good for an arcade game! Much better than Pgr (brakes too sharp) and shift (too twitchy) and FH (no jumps and fields to bounce around;)IMO) and the Crew (no comment).
    Once you get used to the handling (it can take a while and once you make headway in the tours) then you can take chicanes and corners and some point to points at full speed. AI is debatable I agree but they are much better than when it first came out and are pretty good if you keep to the race line and will go round you.
    Over all the above it is very enjoyable, great fast sense of speed, realistic sounds, amazing cockpit detail (wipers/sound), weather (dynamic) and it is fresh and I think will evolve with replay mode and lobbies and fresh dlc into a classic long term game.
    I find even though this is arcade I use the full cockpit view for all races and time trials as I can't get on with any other view I find them too 'arcardy' and tail happy then but have seen people knock seconds off with behind chase views keeping the car tight all round the track by feathering the throttle or motion controller. Keep at it :tup:
     
  9. MeanElf

    MeanElf

    Messages:
    9,112
    I'm not sure if you folks would class me as a long term GT player, but I have played GT3/4/5 and 6 as well as GT5 Prologue. It's actually a mystery to me that anyone is having problems with the physics model of DC - I appreciate that it happens though, as a few others on FB have expressed similar concerns, not many, but a noticeable couple of percent.

    Like most of us, I've also played a fair amount of arcade too and I find this balance displayed in DC to be far better than those older game could offer. Like @torque suggests though, as it has semi-sim elements, feathering the throttle will help around most corners. I feel that I must also add that I use a controller still and this game has been developed more with a controller in mind, as they wanted it to be fully accessible across the widest possible spectrum of players.

    I'm not suggesting that anyone is over-thinking the situation, but I have heard others express bafflement at how players' ghosts appear to be braking so late. I think therefore it could be an idea to just let go, have fun and experiment with how you, as a player can approach those corner - the brakes are very good at stopping the cars, try it out on a few tracks in single event TT and take it from there.

    The AI is just something that you'll always need to be aware of as they interact differently each time - they could also be right swines before one of the early patches, but again as torque says, they are generally less aggressive now - they will block and react aggressively if hit. You'll find that you can get around them though, and I like that a race is a tighter knit thing than I was used to in GT.

    Hope that helps in some way.
     
    LotusTeam likes this.
  10. TonyJZX

    TonyJZX

    Messages:
    3,655
    heres the problem with that

    we've all driven cars in real life, maybe some of you are fortunate enough to drive a high powered rwd sports car or the like

    IMO GT6/Forza5 at the max simulation level isnt easy to get into... you have to work out understeer/oversteer, weight transfer, no abs, no traction control etc. - there's a fair bit to manage just in driving the car fast on a track by yourself

    forza horizon has that but less to manage

    PGR2/3/4 also have great models that are somewhere around Horizon or better

    To me why should you 'throw out' all that knowledge and experience to adapt to Driveclub? To something has no basis in science or reality.

    You drive a Ferrari or Ford Mustang in GT6 or in Forza 5 and they are not miles apart so somehow PD and Turn10 have some commonality even though its Japan vs. Redmond.

    It really doesnt make sense to me. You can either go all the way to something like Ridge Racer or you try to be something like realistic.

    Worse still is that there's no actual tutorial or whatever to get you 'into the game'...

    IMO the fwds in Driveclub arent too bad.

    The 4wds are probably the best in a bad lot.

    The rwds are horrible.
     
  11. hobbsy

    hobbsy

    Messages:
    1,375
    Location:
    England
    Hi guys (and girls), I would have to agree with @MeanElf here and support his points. I too have come from playing a lot of the previous games mentioned, all the way back to the original GT! And GT5 and 6 have almost entirely consumed all my gaming time over the last half decade!
    I have very much enjoyed the experience from DC, and have made the transition across quite easily, even though it's a arcade style game in my opinion it's not a drastic difference in terms of physics, once you learn where the exploitations can be made over a real sim, you'll start to get more out if the game. For me it was the braking and turn in, that was noticeable most.

    For reference, I use a T500rs and manual gears, if I'm running drift events I switch to the dualshock.

    Have fun, enjoy the eye candy and audio pleasure.
     
    MeanElf likes this.
  12. LotusTeam

    LotusTeam

    Messages:
    229
    Although it is known that using a DS4 in DC is faster than a steering wheel, I recently bought the T300RS and I use it to play on PS4 DC and found that I am still faster than on a controller....i just so so get used to a wheel in the PS3 GT days....
     
    MeanElf likes this.
  13. torque99

    torque99

    Messages:
    6,212
    Overall are you pleased you went for that wheel as it isn't cheap-What is it like with the physics, feedback and steering? , -I am so tempted to get a wheel and try to beat my controller times :tup:
     
  14. Brend

    Brend Premium

    Messages:
    11,715
    Whilst we are slating Driveclub for having no bounds to reality...has anyone played Outrun? That's ridiculously unrealistic! You'd think it was an arcade title or something... :dunce:
     
    silverman_GT, Scaff and MeanElf like this.
  15. LotusTeam

    LotusTeam

    Messages:
    229
    I seldom do arcade racing so my opinion is immaterial....but I just feel that overall DC physics is ridiculous, can't even feel the correct FFB on the track, however, the graphics are stunning and I enjoy it very much when playing casual with my friends!
     
  16. TayeezSA

    TayeezSA

    Messages:
    2,534
    Location:
    South Africa
    At first when I played DC a month after it came out, the cars were VERY stiff. I think Evo tuned the handling a bit over time and the cars as of this post feel looser and more responsive. Maybe I just got used to it but I think it's changed.

    However here's what I don't get:

    "The Driveclub Physics are arcadey"

    What makes them arcadey I wonder... When I looked up the differences between Simulation & Arcade, the main one that stood out in my eyes is how far off from realism are the handling characteristics.

    Far off from realism = Arcade
    Close to realism = Simulation

    Driveclub leans more to realism in a sense however I won't call it a simulator. For example, in DC I can't take a Golf GTI around a hairpin corner at 180kmh let alone drift about with it. That will end in tears. Whereas in a game like Ridge Racer, such a feat is possible which is far off from realism.

    I get the fact that there's no Tyre Temperature model and blah blah blah but still, my point stands. What I'm trying to say is there should be levels to this stuff

    Hope I'm not spitting too much poppycock here
     
    MeanElf likes this.
  17. Scaff

    Scaff Moderator

    Messages:
    25,163
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    My experience with GT and FM is pretty extensive (every GT title and all FM titles bar the ones on the XB1), with over 25 years driving on the road and a lot of track and proving ground time.

    I have to say that anyone expecting a sim would be looking in the wrong place, that said (and I believe I recall saying much the same at the time of the beta) the Arcade physics of DC do have some grounding in reality. Under and Over steer occur when they should (just later and in the case of oversteer more pronounced).

    Overall I found adapting to it quite straightforward.
     
    GordonS, Delicious and MeanElf like this.
  18. MeanElf

    MeanElf

    Messages:
    9,112
    Well, throwing out all of your driving knowledge wasn't really what I was advocating ;) I was really suggesting that Evolution pretty much always said they were aiming at a middle ground regarding the physics model; however, none of the team were very clear outside of that statement about what that would actually entail. For me it took actually playing the game to understand that fully. I suppose what I'm saying is, there are aspects that will be familiar, whilst other bits might make you scratch your head, but if anyone who is having trouble adapting, my advice would be to clear the mind and try a fresh approach.

    I can't really explain it beyond that. I loved my time on GT; especially with 5 and 6. I also love driving in DC but for me it's more about the gestalt of it - the whole experience of driving through that incredible landscape, with weather, sense of speed, roaring fires, balloons, feisty opponents, flocks of bright birds...hell, even butterflies and wind-blown litter.

    I've said this before, but I'm pretty sure this is what Kazunori-san meant by 'the edge effect' and for me, together with all of the rest, it works.

    EDIT: all of the posts that I have liked above have additional observations or insights to what I am attempting to say.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2015
    hobbsy likes this.
  19. Brend

    Brend Premium

    Messages:
    11,715
    Driveclub is an arcade title but I must have missed the seminar from 2elite4u sim racers that stated all arcade titles are bad. At the end of the day, all racing games started from the foundations of arcade based racing. I grew up with titles like SEGA Rally, Daytona USA, Scud Race and OutRun. Scoffing at those titles because my tires dont melt or anything like that is just daft. Driveclub is a great arcade racer because it allows you to utilize 'simulation' techniques whilst allowing you to still push the car past what is possible...I'd say its a perfect mix for pick up and play racing. I've never struggled with the cars physics engine, not once. It's pretty slick and keeps you in the action.
     
    hobbsy, TayeezSA, bluemoon_19 and 3 others like this.
  20. SynGamer

    SynGamer

    Messages:
    115
    Location:
    Canada
    Having played DC for two days now, I have to agree, the physics are very odd. The cars don't feel stuck to the tack at all, and the AI is horrible. They simply do not recognize that you (the player) are even on the track. I can't tell you how many times I've been pushed into a wall or other cars because the AI held their line coming out of a turn or going in, even though I had position.

    That said, I still, oddly, find the game fun. 90 stars so far. I'm hoping the devs can tweak the AI and perhaps the handling a bit in future updates.
     
  21. Scuderia Paul

    Scuderia Paul

    Messages:
    5,582
    Location:
    Ireland
    I agree completely. DC is the best arcade racing game I have played for a very long time. If I want a sim experience I will play something else.
     
    TayeezSA and MeanElf like this.
  22. LotusTeam

    LotusTeam

    Messages:
    229
    But I still have to say it is ridiculous to have a FF car drift like that at 150km/hr at sharp corners when just a little handbrake is applied, have to say, to me, it had been fun but over exaggerated
     
  23. Brend

    Brend Premium

    Messages:
    11,715
    Over-exaggerated or design decision? Evolution made the choice to have the car handle like that. Where Evolution have called the game 'semi-sim' it's up to interpretation how they see it as that? It could simply be down to the realistic environments and cars in-game.
     
    MeanElf likes this.
  24. MXH

    MXH Premium

    Messages:
    2,969
    Location:
    Sweden
    The fact that I've been playing almost exclusively racing games for over one and a half decade might have helped but personally, I have so far had no annoyances at all with DC's physics. It's been very straightforward and easy to pick up - treating it as a ''simcade'' from the get go.

    For a lack of a better word, DC's physics ''makes sense''. Although it's no simulator, it is still based on real world physics. Treat it as such.

    Also, speaking of the AI (which can be a pain in the arse racing against), this just happened...

     
    GordonS, hobbsy, TayeezSA and 2 others like this.
  25. MeanElf

    MeanElf

    Messages:
    9,112
    Nice reactions. I've seen a right pile up or two amongst the AI in the past - it can be satisfyingly cathartic ;)
     
    SynGamer likes this.
  26. JR98

    JR98 Premium

    Messages:
    14,661
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I find the physics pretty decent on DC, no matter what I drive I can usually get it round the track quickly and usually without any crashes. (Until the AI kicks in)
     
  27. TayeezSA

    TayeezSA

    Messages:
    2,534
    Location:
    South Africa
    That vid needs a Car Throttle caption "Like a baws" :lol:
     
  28. sems4arsenal

    sems4arsenal Premium

    Messages:
    15,457
    Location:
    Egypt
    I find their physics for the type of game to be bang on, every class and to some extent every car feels different, it's not just FWD = understeer and RWD = oversteer, there is more depth than that.

    Yes it's not as realistic as the GTs and Forzas but they close to Grid maybe, also for me the one thing you need to master is the brakes, knowing when and how to apply the brakes (trail braking etc) is a rewarding experience imo.

    Stick with the game till you get to the higher classes (not like there is any racing games now) if you still don't "understand" the physics then trade it in and wait for CARS.
     
    z71L28 and MeanElf like this.
  29. Saidur_Ali

    Saidur_Ali

    Messages:
    6,538
    I personally found the physics great and really intuitive. It is like a simulator of cars in stock condition but lets you overdrive them and has great handling characteristics, really fun. I remember the first few times I played the game, took part in my first EvolutionStudios challenge and even with automatic using the DS4 (I rarely ever drive without using wheel in other games), I even was competing against some of the best players without too much effort and having a lot of potential. Shame servers struggled to work for a while after so took a break from the game. Here is a video from then.



    I find handling very predictable in Driveclub, something like Forza 5, I can be like 5-10 seconds off the pace per lap IIRC on some short tracks and don't know when car will start turning or not or when car will step out. Driveclub physics and input make a lot more sense to me regarding realism and refreshing for current generation console racers, finally a game that is fun to drive and behaves more like how you would expect a car to drive without being too serious.
     
    Scaff and MeanElf like this.
  30. Mike_grpA

    Mike_grpA

    Messages:
    2,810
    Location:
    Australia
    First up I haven't played driveclub, so I can't comment on the realism of it's physics, but what I want to add to the discussion is if you are using Gran Turismo's physics as your benchmark for "realism", you may not be happy with how a proper sim feels either.

    From what I read about DC from devs during development, and from reviews since release, is that it is intended to be a fun, accessible arcade type racer, with physics still rooted in realism. This, and comments here to the same effect, don't surprise me, as it was always the feeling I got playing the Motorstorm games. Yes, very arcadey, but the weight of the cars going over rough terrain and jumps felt very natural.

    I intend to buy a ps4 very soon, and I'll be getting driveclub, as it looks like a great fun game, with mind blowing graphics, that will compliment my impending purchase of Project CARS beautifully. So I'll check back in here with my thoughts on the game when I get it. :)