Playstation 4

[TheCracker]

Believe me, the big push is happening and it's happening NOW. Is it already the standard? I could probably argue 'yes'. But if not, it will be by the time the PS4 is released. Does that mean that the PS4 won't have multi-out? Well, I have no idea. But certainly Sony engineers are looking at this and studying current trends. And it wouldn't surprise me.

But that's still no reason to drop multi-out. Many people still will not have HDMI equipped TV's by the time the PS4 comes out. For the pennies it would cost Sony to include multi-out they'll be able to shift more consoles on top of that simple inclusion.

 

[jjaisli]

But that's still no reason to drop multi-out. Many people still will not have HDMI equipped TV's by the time the PS4 comes out. For the pennies it would cost Sony to include multi-out they'll be able to shift more consoles on top of that simple inclusion.

You throw "...many people..." & "...pennies..." out there and I don't necessarily agree with either.

According to In-Stat, roughly 90% of the Televisions manufactured in 2007 had an HDMI port. I can't find a statistic for 2008-9 but I would guess it's even higher. The fact is, if you purchased a TV in the last 4-5 years it's VERY likely that it has at least one HDMI port. If you purchase a TV today or tomorrow or in a year from now or probably in even in 2 years from now, I would guess it's better than 99% that it has multiple HDMI ports. At which point in time, the PS4 probably will not yet even be on store shelves. We're taking a long look into the future here. (Long of course being relative)

So if > 75% of the people in the market for a PS4 (at the time of it's release) have an HDMI enabled TV, I'm guessing this will be the de facto standard. And what about the other 25%? It's important to understand, part of the reason Sony wants to sell you a PS4 is so that you go out and BUY the latest and greatest TV (and hopefully from Sony). And naturally this goes hand in hand with Sony selling the latest and greatest 3D TVs, hoping that you'll go out and BUY a new PS3 or 3D enabled blu-ray player (or eventually PS4). Sony doesn't want to be your friend. They just want your money.

The PS3 lost some hardware features along it's life through various revisions (2 USB ports, card reader, etc). There may have been other political and marketing reasons for this. But I'm sure the main reason was to reduce the manufacturing cost. How much I can't say but I'm sure it was more than a few pennies. Eliminating the multiport would probably save as much as a few dollars on every PS3. It's not just the cost to manufacture and buy the hardware but one has to consider the additional R&D & QA that goes along with it. Over the course of the PS4's life and depending on how many sold, it could potentially save Sony hundreds of millions of dollars. And you can bet your life, that they'll also attempt research and gauge how many new TVs they'll sell due to the elimination of the multiport vs any lost potential console sales.

Difficult to judge, the future is. But certainly, Sony is still smarting from their mistakes on the PS3. It was perhaps a little too advanced (meaning expensive) for it's own good when it was released. And Sony themselves would probably argue that they may have pushed that envelope a little too far back in 2006 at at time when most people probably weren't ready to take advantage of it. And I'm sure they'll be mindful of this with the PS4. Indeed, combined with the severe economic slowdown, none of the big 3 seem eager to unload a new console design with new standards on us anytime soon. But when they do, the majority of living rooms will look a bit differently than they did in 2006.

 

[TheCracker]

So if > 75% of the people in the market for a PS4 (at the time of it's release) have an HDMI enabled TV, I'm guessing this will be the de facto standard. And what about the other 25%? It's important to understand, part of the reason Sony wants to sell you a PS4 is so that you go out and BUY the latest and greatest TV (and hopefully from Sony). And naturally this goes hand in hand with Sony selling the latest and greatest 3D TVs, hoping that you'll go out and BUY a new PS3 or 3D enabled blu-ray player (or eventually PS4). Sony doesn't want to be your friend. They just want your money.

Sony also want to be able sell their product to the widest possible market.

Another 25% of the market purchasing your PS4 > 25% of people upgrading to an HDMI TV of which Sony only currently have a 5.9% market share.

The PS3 lost some hardware features along it's life through various revisions (2 USB ports, card reader, etc). There may have been other political and marketing reasons for this. But I'm sure the main reason was to reduce the manufacturing cost. How much I can't say but I'm sure it was more than a few pennies. Eliminating the multiport would probably save as much as a few dollars on every PS3. It's not just the cost to manufacture and buy the hardware but one has to consider the additional R&D & QA that goes along with it. Over the course of the PS4's life and depending on how many sold, it could potentially save Sony hundreds of millions of dollars. And you can bet your life, that they'll also attempt research and gauge how many new TVs they'll sell due to the elimination of the multiport vs any lost potential console sales.

The hardware features the early PS3 lost were probably superfluous to 95% of owners. My PS3 has two USB ports which is twice as many as i'll ever need. If i want to import images from my camera i'll use the same USB cable that i use to charge my controller or headset rather than fanny about taking the card out of my camera.

'A few pennies' is obviously under estimating the cost, but the extra potential market still out weighs the extra manufacturing costs to Sony IMO.

 

[jjaisli]

But Sony make a LOT more profit from selling high a high end TV than they do selling a game console. For the first 2-3 years, Sony actually lost money on every PS3 it sold. Where as they were making hundreds of dollars in profit for every high end Bravia. And probably still do. (There's not much profit left on low end models). The market for TVs is obviously much more saturated than the market for game consoles (for which there are currently only 3 main players). But if Sony can sell only 1 big 3D TV for every 150 PS4s they sell, they'd probably consider it some measure of success.

You guys may indeed be correct and the multi-port may stay. And for all I know, the next generation of consoles may still support SD out. But I would be very surprised on both counts.

If the PS4 were coming out this fall, I would FULLY expect it to support both. But I think you underestimate the change taking place. And the fact that it's happening during an era of recession when few people have the money for such expensive, indulgent purchases is even more telling. When the PS4 IS finally released (2-3 years?), most people WILL have an HD TV. Those who don't will be very much in the minority.

 

[Nero9]

On the other hand (as of May of this year) more than 50% of US households have HD televisions.

America ain't the world you know.

 

[jjaisli]

America ain't the world you know.

I live in the US and have for many years. But if I open my night table drawer, I'll see my Swiss Passport sitting there. And being somewhat well traveled and having visited or lived in for a time in several different countries, I'm actually quite aware that America isn't the world. But it was a very easy statistic to find. And quite relevant since it is the largest single market for game consoles.

There's no question that the US in generally ahead of the curve in retail sales for cutting edge electronics. But probably about on par or close with Canada, Western Europe, Japan, Australia and many people in major cities in the rest of the world. And in a nutshell, that's probably the majority of the market for game consoles as well.

 

[Golfman]

Once again, I would rather have 100 games and an SDTV than 1 game and a HDTV.

Since the launch of the PS3 and Xbox 360, there is this funny little thing that they can do. It goes by the name of High Definition. In fact, most Tvs available in the world these days can magically do that as well.
What it is, incase you are not sure, is that the sound and picture that gets emitted is both sharper and crisper than that thing you swear by....what was it? Oh yes! Standard Definition.
Your poor 100+ games collection will look much worse on that SD thing you use, rather than the pristine HD that 90% of the gamers these days like to use. HD is the standard by which games these days are developed for, whether you like it or not.
Catch up with the times anytime you want.

 

[FoolKiller]

Since the launch of the PS3 and Xbox 360, there is this funny little thing that they can do. It goes by the name of High Definition. In fact, most Tvs available in the world these days can magically do that as well.
What it is, incase you are not sure, is that the sound and picture that gets emitted is both sharper and crisper than that thing you swear by....what was it? Oh yes! Standard Definition.
Your poor 100+ games collection will look much worse on that SD thing you use, rather than the pristine HD that 90% of the gamers these days like to use. HD is the standard by which games these days are developed for, whether you like it or not.
Catch up with the times anytime you want.

Yet, HD does not make or break a game. If that can ruin a game then I question the gameplay.

And I'm still curious what your audio setup is like.

 

[Northstar]

Catch up with the times anytime you want.

I have a 1080p monitor and an old HDTV in the living room, the one in the living room does not have an HDMI input. Is still works perfectly fine though so there is no way I'm going to replace it anytime soon.

I have asked this countless times, but since you aren't in the answering mood I will put it in bold red letters.

What are people with old, but still functioning HDTV's supposed to do?

Sony can't simply say "get with the times", they will receive backlash not only from those who don't have an HDTV, but even some that do.

Also, please answer FoolKiller's question as I to am curious about that.

 

[Golfman]

Yet, HD does not make or break a game. If that can ruin a game then I question the gameplay.

And I'm still curious what your audio setup is like.

OK, put it this way. When I got my PS3 I had only an SD setup. The one game I had was Resistance.
When I started playing it, I was blown away by the visuals, thinking to myself "Why bother getting an HDTV? This is good enough."
Then I bit the bullet and went HD. I have to tell you, even though I was roughly half way through the game, I deleted my save and started a new one because the difference in picture and sound quality was so staggering. I think playing games this way only enhances the experience, whether the gameplay is good or bad.
In fact, the second game I bought(right after I got my HDTV) was Virtua Fighter 5. I have recently played this at someone's house who doesn't have their 360 hooked up via HDMI, and by god it is ugly compared to it's HDMI output. I can't imagine going back.
My brother ownes a 360. He also started out with an SDTV. Then his girlfriend and my mum got him an HDTV for his Xmas, but he didn't have it hooked up via HDMI cable. I persuaded him to get one, and he says he can't imagine playing games any other way now.
And my audio set-up? Nothing special. My Tv has TruSurround capability, so it will do just now, but I will be getting a full surround sound system in the near future, right after GT5 and Xmas is past!

Oh and by the way I thought that when a Tv is labelled as being an HDTV, doesn't it come with an HDMI socket? So your old HDTV doesn't?
Fraud, surely!

 

[Northstar]

And my audio set-up? Nothing special. My Tv has TruSurround capability, so it will do just now, but I will be getting a full surround sound system in the near future, right after GT5 and Xmas is past!

^^You earned it.👍

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

I play games on both an HDTV and SDTV. It doesn't bother me that much when I play on the SDTV. I'm sure people who don't play at all or rarely are bothered by playing in standard definition.

 

[FoolKiller]

OK, put it this way. When I got my PS3 I had only an SD setup. The one game I had was Resistance.
When I started playing it, I was blown away by the visuals, thinking to myself "Why bother getting an HDTV? This is good enough."
Then I bit the bullet and went HD. I have to tell you, even though I was roughly half way through the game, I deleted my save and started a new one because the difference in picture and sound quality was so staggering. I think playing games this way only enhances the experience, whether the gameplay is good or bad.
My brother ownes a 360. He also started out with an SDTV. Then his girlfriend and my mum got him an HDTV for his Xmas, but he didn't have it hooked up via HDMI cable. I persuaded him to get one, and he says he can't imagine playing games any other way now.

It enhances the experience, but nothing more. It is not a necessity, which is why some people don't cough up the money just so their PS3 looks better.

But if you seriously think that HD is so great and everyone should have it then explain the Wii.

And my audio set-up? Nothing special. My Tv has TruSurround capability, so it will do just now, but I will be getting a full surround sound system in the near future, right after GT5 and Xmas is past!

So you don't have a proper surround sound setup? That has been around for a decade longer than HDTVs have been in stores. Get with the times, man!

And to be serious for a second. Surround sound will enhance video games much more. Hearing an enemy behind or beside you can make a huge difference in reaction time, as you aren't looking for him/her, you know where they are. Same thing for Gran Turismo. I don't need to constantly check my mirrors, because I can hear where the car trying to pass me is located. But I don't suggest Sony only make it so that a 7.1 system can access their audio.

 

[Jump_Ace]

America ain't the world you know.

WHAT?!



I could care less about the PS4 right now the PS3 will probably have a 10 year lifespan, but that's based on pure opinion

Jerome

 

[Golfman]

^^You earned it.👍

Er....did you not read what I said. I AM GETTING A FULL SURROUND SOUND SYSTEM IN THE NEAR FUTURE. I didn't see the point of getting one until HD gaming was well and truly established as the new standard. In fact, my list of priorities were, in order:

1) Get a next-gen HD console(PS3)
2) Get an HDTV
3) Build up a library of decent games - no turds allowed.
4) Go for a full surround sound system.
5) Get a 3D Tv set-up when it comes down in price and is established as being worth it.


I move with the times, unlike you lot.

 

[jjaisli]

I have a 1080p monitor and an old HDTV in the living room, the one in the living room does not have an HDMI input. Is still works perfectly fine though so there is no way I'm going to replace it anytime soon..

And well you shouldn't. But if it's an early Plasma (>5 years old), and gets a lot of use, I'm guessing it will probably be kaput by the time the PS4 is finally for sale. Voila! Problem solved. (Not that I wish it on you of course)

But no worries, you have at least 2, more than likely 3 years still to go. New consoles are still a long way off.

 

[Golfman]

But if you seriously think that HD is so great and everyone should have it then explain the Wii.

I can explain the Wii. A joke of a console with most of it's library made up of crappy "party" games for kids.
Nintendo will never change.

 

[FoolKiller]

Er....did you not read what I said. I AM GETTING A FULL SURROUND SOUND SYSTEM IN THE NEAR FUTURE.
I move with the times, unlike you lot.

Careful who you lump into a group. Some of us are moving with the times better than you. We just don't act smug about it.

I can explain the Wii. A joke of a console with most of it's library made up of crappy "party" games for kids.
Nintendo will never change.

And it prints money. It is the perfect example of how a company in it for business don't need to do HD anything to satisfy massive numbers of people.

 

[Golfman]

I'm not trying to act smug here at all. It is very hard arguing my point across without being ganged up on in here. My attitude is due to my frustration. And I apologise if I offended anybody.

 

[Northstar]

1) Get a next-gen HD console(PS3)
2) Get an HDTV
3) Build up a library of decent games - no turds allowed.
4) Go for a full surround sound system, to complete my HD gameplaying/blu-ray movie experience

I move with the times, unlike you lot.

Hmmm.....No 3D TV, get with the times!!!!!!!

Also, you are a hypocrite because you are basically saying anyone who doesn't have the latest technology doesn't deserve to play the latest games, yet you yourself don't even have all the latest technology. Sure you plan to, but I'm sure people with SDTV's also plan on getting HDTV.

 

[Golfman]

Hmmm.....No 3D TV, get with the times!!!!!!!

Also, you are a hypocrite because you are basically saying anyone who doesn't have the latest technology doesn't deserve to play the latest games, yet you yourself don't even have all the latest technology. Sure you plan to, but I'm sure people with SDTV's also plan on getting HDTV.

Well ok, point taken there, but do you plan on getting an HDTV anytime soon?

 

[Jump_Ace]

Jerome

 

[jjaisli]

And it prints money. It is the perfect example of how a company in it for business don't need to do HD anything to satisfy massive numbers of people.

Well put. But I would argue, a large part of the Wii's success is down to two key points:
1. The motion controller was a brilliant idea that just caught on and got people hooked.
2. The price. The Wii was launched in the US at a price of $249.99 and in the UK for £179. By contrast, the PS3 originally sold for US$599 (€599) (assuming you wanted a model with an HDMI port). And a lot of people were simply not willing to pay that kind of price for a game machine.

I think a certain percentage of people who go out there and buy a new TV today don't necessarily do so for the purpose of upgrading to the latest technology. Naturally many do. But for some, it's simply a matter that they need or want a new TV, likely because their old TV is broken and the simple fact of the matter is, you can no longer buy SD Televisions. And purely by default, in a couple of years time, most people will own HD TVs whether they specifically wanted one or not.

So following along these lines, I'm guessing even the next Nintendo machine will be HD. But maybe not HD only.

 

[Northstar]

Well ok, point taken there, but do you plan on getting an HDTV anytime soon?

Have you read anything on the last 2 pages?

 

[LaBounti]

My main point is that I suspect the next generation of consoles will be HD only. IF that turns out to be the case, than it eliminates the need for multi-out. And I say that because I think you vastly underestimate the adoption rate in which HDMI is taking over. 7 years? 10 years? That's pure fantasy. It's happening right now and much quicker than you realize.

The amount of market penetration is what determines whether something is a standard. The level or percentage of market penetration is open for debate. When did DVDs take over from VHS tapes? When they had 30%? 40%? 65% market penetration? Who can say for sure. But certainly HDMI is and has been the standard on any NEW TV sold in the last 3-4 years. Component has been on the way out for a while now. It's the direction the industry has been going for some time. And part of that push is being led by the movie studios themselves and agreements with manufacturers of recording equipment, display top boxes, TVs and content providers. (To put it in very basic terms, they want to eliminate HDMI "In" on any kind of recording device.) So one could argue that for this reason alone, the big push is now in progress.

You are not getting the big picture. HDMI is not the Standard for video devices. I never said HDMI isnt on every new TV. There are NEW DVD players out there without HDMI. The Wii has no HDMI port. Standard means all new input devices sold would have HDMI. that said it is not the standard and will not be for years. Rather than debate this subject just give a positive reason to not include the multi output. The Multi output can be used for audio only if you want to plug it directly into a speaker system. There is an option to use it for just audio, again no positive reason to remove it. Every console since SNES has had the yellow and white RCA audio jacks.

Why remove something like that if you want to hook it to speakers. All gamers are not going to have 5.1 audio systems and all may not want the awful TV speakers. Some may want a simple way to plug into speakers even if they have an HDTV, not all TV's have audio out put. No positive reason to take away an option like that. For me sound is important, for one I can't bare TV speaker audio. I use a 2.1 system with sub woofer and it makes a difference until I move to a 5.1 this year.

If Microsoft or Sony advertised an HDMI only device that could be millions of lost sales even in 2013/14.


.

 

[Golfman]

Hmmm.....No 3D TV, get with the times!!!!!!!

Also, you are a hypocrite because you are basically saying anyone who doesn't have the latest technology doesn't deserve to play the latest games, yet you yourself don't even have all the latest technology. Sure you plan to, but I'm sure people with SDTV's also plan on getting HDTV.

I never meant that at all. My argument is that people who don't get what is now considered to be the standard set up for games will be missing out, and I urge them to update.
Can you imagine playing Crysis 2 on an SDTV? You'd only be getting half the experience!

 

[dylansan]

What are these "times" you speak of? If I remember correctly, the past was also a "time" - a time when games were fun on SD TVs, with lower quality sound systems, on less powerful consoles. The present is no different, though now we have HDTVs, High Quality Surround Sound, and hugely powerful consoles. Doesn't mean all the fun of the past never happened. And it doesn't mean that when the "times" move on to the future, all of the current technology will no longer be good enough to have fun.

A word of advice: Stop chasing the times. Follow to closely, and you'll find all the fun of the past dropping away behind you. Go pop GT1 or GT2 into your console. Go play Pacman or Tetris, or play some cards with friends. Otherwise you're just saving up for the future, constantly just waiting for the new definition of fun, instead of having it.

[/Rant]

 

[LaBounti]

I never meant that at all. My argument is that people who don't get what is now considered to be the standard set up for games will be missing out, and I urge them to update.
Can you imagine playing Crysis 2 on an SDTV? You'd only be getting half the experience!

My brother plays Madden, NBA2K and GTA just fine on his SDTV. He isn't missing anything and him and his buddies still have fun since HD doesn't make them better players. Not all gamers are the same, my brother has my old 26" HDTV but he still uses his SDTV and doesnt miss a beat.

 

[yeti]

My brother plays Madden, NBA2K and GTA just fine on his SDTV. He isn't missing anything and him and his buddies still have fun since HD doesn't make them better players. Not all gamers are the same, my brother has my old 26" HDTV but he still uses his SDTV and doesnt miss a beat.

Actually - I have to disagree with you here - I played GTA4 on my SD before I got a HDTV... and I could barely see the radar in the bottom corner... R* didn't really optimise the UI for GTA4 - and I'm pretty sure that RedDead is probably exactly the same...

C.

 

[FoolKiller]

Well put. But I would argue, a large part of the Wii's success is down to two key points:
1. The motion controller was a brilliant idea that just caught on and got people hooked.
2. The price. The Wii was launched in the US at a price of $249.99 and in the UK for £179. By contrast, the PS3 originally sold for US$599 (€599) (assuming you wanted a model with an HDMI port). And a lot of people were simply not willing to pay that kind of price for a game machine.

Gameplay and affordability (which came at the cost of HD). Gaming can be a business and popular success without ever using HD. In fact, it can be the largest success story in the industry, so far, without it.