- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
Political Correctness
- Thread starter lbsf1
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Dotini
(Banned)
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- CR80_Shifty
The way I understood the story, it was about a protest that became violent and destructive, a mob.
The initial motivation of the protest was in the interest of BLM and against police brutality, which are politically correct motivations.
But the protest became violent and destructive, a mob. Which vitiated, gutted, nullified and otherwise acted against the original legitimacy of the protest.
The size of the mob was small, only 300 or so, it seems. But as the government officials had previously acknowledged the correctness of the original motivation, they were powerless to act as the mob moved on to destroy unrelated public property, some symbols of the prior culture and civilization.
Similar stories are playing out all around the country right now. So perhaps there is a lesson or some insight to be learned here.
The initial motivation of the protest was in the interest of BLM and against police brutality, which are politically correct motivations.
But the protest became violent and destructive, a mob. Which vitiated, gutted, nullified and otherwise acted against the original legitimacy of the protest.
The size of the mob was small, only 300 or so, it seems. But as the government officials had previously acknowledged the correctness of the original motivation, they were powerless to act as the mob moved on to destroy unrelated public property, some symbols of the prior culture and civilization.
Similar stories are playing out all around the country right now. So perhaps there is a lesson or some insight to be learned here.
- 16,484
- Grea'er Laandan
- UKMikeyA
- UKMikeyA
That those in power should do everything they can to suppress public protest because it's a slippery slope to rioting? If a mob threatens public order then there's nothing stopping the authorities from halting them regardless of whether it agreed with their original cause.
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- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
Dotini
(Banned)
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- Seattle
- CR80_Shifty
In Seattle and elsewhere, those in power have conceded the right to protest is protected and this cause is just. Our police have given up the use of crowd control technologies such as tear gas, pepper spray, rubber bullets and flash bangs for 30 days. However, occasionally the protest turns to riot, property is destroyed and people are shot and killed within the occupied protest. This has gone on for two weeks while the police have lost their precinct and their tools and the city authorities are still vacillating as to what to do.
@TenEightyOne -- I picked the thread with the string of more than 30 posts already discussing the same thing, and the question @Biggles asked. Beyond that, the incidents are all political acts taken upon things the activists regard as incorrect. There are easier things to vandalize, and for this case, plenty of other works of art around downtown Madison.
If you're asking them, here's one possible justification given:
If you're asking them, here's one possible justification given:
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- Simcoeace
Yeah - I'm aware of that. It belongs in a museum. iI's a typical example of Victorian era art with its moralizing, narrative theme. Museums are full of 19th century art like this. Some of it is good art, some of it not. A lot of it is pretty interesting in an artistic or historical context, but not appropriate any more for public memorialization.
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- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
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- Marin County
As an update on this, I sat through a 2-hour zoom call with all of the county supervisors today related to this renaming petition. The overwhelming consensus (on the call at least) from the community was to change the name...and specifically to delegate the renaming to the Miwok people. I was wrong about there not being any of them around...some of them were on the call! They are obviously in favor of changing the name... I still can't really understand why such an important bit of the county was named in honor of a guy who was here, at best, 5 weeks. Meanwhile, the Miwok have existed here 3,000 years. I think the case to rename the road is compelling.
I know everyone here was waiting with bated breath for an update.
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- Simcoeace
A "public spot" implies continuing promotion of its theme. In a museum it can be seen as an artifact of a particular era without implying the endorsement of that theme.
- 5,588
- Dahlonega, GA
- ryzno
I don't know about other states but here they usually have a plaque with a decent bit of history for whatever public monument.
I believe it's on the person to look at it in anger or look at it and learn it's history.
My grandfather was Jewish and served in WW2, if I ever went over to Germany I wouldn't say tare that down! It's disrespectful to my ancestors! I would look at it and try to learn it's history.
People are so triggered now a days and really don't want to learn. A sad state of modern times...
- 6,047
- Simcoeace
Tear what down in Germany?
The problem with the American Civil War is precisely that people "really don't want to learn". That's why there was the Ku Klux Klan & Jim Crow & southerners drove around for decades with confederate flags on their vehicles. I suggest you read this article:
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/08/20/why-there-are-no-nazi-statues-in-germany-215510
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- Dahlonega, GA
- ryzno
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- Simcoeace
Auschwitz? That's not quite the same thing as memorializing the Nazi war effort, which is what Stone Mountain & other Confederate monuments do with regard to the Civil War.
From the linked article:
In 1949, the Federal Republic of Germany (West Germany) criminalized the display of swastikas; the symbol was also scraped and sometimes blown off of buildings. The federal state systematically destroyed statues and monuments, razed many Nazi architectural structures and buried executed military and civilian officials in mass, unmarked graves so that their resting grounds would not become Nazi shrines.
That's exactly the point. The monuments help perpetuate an unrealistic assessment of the war & in practical terms helped perpetuate institutional discrimination against African Americans for decades.
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- Simcoeace
I guess the attitude in the South would be a bit like Germans claiming that WWII was fought just to right the wrongs of the Treaty of Versailles & the loss of German-speaking territories.
There were atrocities on both sides during the Civil War, although nothing that rises to the level of the systematic genocide carried out by the Nazis. Still, somehow the South was allowed to carry on after the war as though the war was fought over more of a constitutional technicality than a matter of human decency. Unlike in Germany, there was never a clear acknowledgement that they were in the wrong.
There were atrocities on both sides during the Civil War, although nothing that rises to the level of the systematic genocide carried out by the Nazis. Still, somehow the South was allowed to carry on after the war as though the war was fought over more of a constitutional technicality than a matter of human decency. Unlike in Germany, there was never a clear acknowledgement that they were in the wrong.
ROAD_DOGG33J
Premium
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- holyc0w1
- holyc0w
- 40,420
On a similar note to this, I've noticed in the past couple weeks that a similar blase attitude towards what was happening before/during WWII in the East is also seemingly why people do a collective shrug in the best case when they see people get upset about how the IJN ensign is so casually used in modern Japanese culture.
- 16,484
- Grea'er Laandan
- UKMikeyA
- UKMikeyA
If it's Westerners doing the shrugging then I suspect it's more from ignorance of the context rather than any kind of hypocrisy in the same way that one doesn't hear much about South Koreans protesting the Confederate battle flag. If on the other hand it's about the blase attitude displayed by Japanese authorities towards South Korean protests, then I can understand. It sounds like a campaign that needs better publicity in the West is concerned if it's to gain widespread support here.
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- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
Museums are a context that audiences majoritatively understand as different from on-the-street displays.
If communities don't want these edifices in their public spaces then yes, it's definitely a curatable object and should be moved to a museum where, by the very definition of a museum, it belongs. Museums are a form of physical shell for tangible and intangible human histories.
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How much of the community not wanting it is necessary for it to be moved?
Do we have to then move Thomas Guy, Nelson, Newton, Gandhi because of objections from individuals?
- 16,484
- Grea'er Laandan
- UKMikeyA
- UKMikeyA
Not sure which statues have been moved "because of objections from individuals". Any examples?
The Marion Sims statue took 8 years of dedicated campaigning before it was removed. I don't think that equates to a kneejerk decision.
You think this is being done along party lines? Now that's amusing. I'm also not sure how moving a statue is manipulating history.
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