Political Correctness
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- NoDak
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- Grea'er Laandan
- UKMikeyA
- UKMikeyA
This is the whole point of the article that I'm not sure anybody clicked on. Only fringes at the extreme ends of the political spectrum care about the culture wars, as far as the UK people polled are concerned at least.
Making culture wars and opposition to political correctness, wokeness and critical race theory the focus of policy therefore sounds like a bit of a non starter so far. Over half the nation doesn't care. It's an import from the States that simply doesn't impact most people's lives. It'd therefore seem like a crazy thing to fight an election over.
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- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
Yes, really. He might be the husband of somebody important but class and perceived social position don't excuse behaviour. Best just to let the whole thing pass without comment really, I'm not sure what they thought they were doing. Given the general behaviour of much of the family they're hardly people you'd choose as public figures. Fortunately for their pockets they're foisted on us by inheritance.
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People getting "harmed" from a picture of him?
You guys don't find that a little funny?
It wasn't even in commemoration of him:
“The picture was included as a historical reference point following his death,” read the statement. “The inclusion of the picture was not intended to commemorate him.”
Would they be similarly upset seeing a picture of him in the Daily Mail or the Guardian?
You guys don't find that a little funny?
It wasn't even in commemoration of him:
“The picture was included as a historical reference point following his death,” read the statement. “The inclusion of the picture was not intended to commemorate him.”
Would they be similarly upset seeing a picture of him in the Daily Mail or the Guardian?
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- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
Is a picture in a mass-produced gnewspaper the issue at hand or is it an individual picture presented in an normally co-memorial context without any clue as to the originator's intention?
And are you so relaxed about the ideas of hereditary religious and political power and their ownership by a bunch of dysfunctional ***** that you can't accept anybody else is living a different experience from you?
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Of course people live different experiences than me - I'm just wondering how it can be so different as to be "hurt" by a picture of Prince Philip.
Have we got to a stage where a university has to issue a trigger warning before a piece on the death of one of their (admittedly controversial) governors, or alternatively, cancel them altogether?
Hot on the heels of this we have Magdalen College Oxford students voting to remove a picture of the Queen because of "recent colonial history".
I think it needs to be said that I'm not against the right to do what they want and protest however they like, rather that I'm amused at the absurdity of some of these decisions.
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- TenEightyOne
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Your post seems full of the power of authority.
It's the things he represents as an icon. I refuse to believe that you can't see that.
"Cancel" Prince Philip? How do you suggest that would happen? What are you talking about?
So students voted to put up a picture of the Queen, where's the big deal? Can't they choose to put it up? What are you talking about?
Your amusement comes across as patronising but of course that's only my opinion. Why is it absurd for people to choose to put up a picture? Why is it absurd for people to say that they're uncomfortable with a particular public icon being associated with their work and study?
I'm feeling an implication in your post that the authority represented by the inherited Families is unquestionable and that it's the rejection of that authority which draws your patronising ire.
It's the things he represents as an icon. I refuse to believe that you can't see that.
"Cancel" Prince Philip? How do you suggest that would happen? What are you talking about?
So students voted to put up a picture of the Queen, where's the big deal? Can't they choose to put it up? What are you talking about?
Your amusement comes across as patronising but of course that's only my opinion. Why is it absurd for people to choose to put up a picture? Why is it absurd for people to say that they're uncomfortable with a particular public icon being associated with their work and study?
I'm feeling an implication in your post that the authority represented by the inherited Families is unquestionable and that it's the rejection of that authority which draws your patronising ire.
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I'm not sure I follow. You believe they objected because of his privilege and not because of his history of questionable remarks?
If you don't put a trigger warning for the piece then the alternative is to not have a piece altogether, which would be unusual for a high profile governor's death.TenEightyOne
They voted to pull it down because her "involvement" in Britain's colonialism "could make some feel unwelcome".TenEightyOne
It's just a funny story, IMO. Do they propose we graffiti on our stamps next? Trade in foreign currency instead of our own bank notes?
I think the Royal Family should end after the Queen dies. My amusement comes on how such trivial things are so offensive to some people.TenEightyOne
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- Grea'er Laandan
- UKMikeyA
- UKMikeyA
Perhaps they could build a giant strawman with a crown on.
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- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
I think the two combine to form the man's particular brand of unpleasantness. He's pushed by the establishment as an authority figure, role model, ambassador for the official brand, that's always going to be problematic.
You're confusing having that picture with having the story. With that said there could be few people unaware of his passing and so a photograph wasn't really required. As the university pointed out after the fact it was unwise because of his history of sexist, racist commentary. You actually said 'cancel Prince Philip' - some may consider that a worthy goal but it's sensibly impossible and further evidence of your terror at things that don't exist.
So you agreed with them voting to put up a picture of the Queen and so that was okay for them to do. But they're never allowed to take it down again, is that what you're saying?
Do you really think the image of the queen is welcoming to everybody? Are you really so socially insulated?
I think you've gone a little far there. Destroying British culture, heritage, language, tradition, wealth and landscape so they can supplant our raft of identities with their own narrow version and insist that we call it British is too horrific a legacy, in my opinion. If you think that's trivial then I'd say you're part of the problem.
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Wut.
It's just a (bad) joke on the fact that we have bank notes, pennies and stamps with the Queen on it. Technically these should also be triggering.
But what about the picture is so awful? Why is just having the text acceptable?
Yes of course it's ok, just as it's ok to take the picture down.TenEightyOne
Nope, just that it's ridiculous.TenEightyOne
No, I imagine some people hate her, same as some hated Mother Theresa. Is it such a significant amount of the population that would warrant such an action? I don't think soTenEightyOne
My history's hazy, are you referencing past monarchs' actions? And the present Queen represents that?TenEightyOne
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I'm interested what your thoughts are on the Ollie Robinson situation?
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- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
It specifically showed him performing a service at the uni, iirc. Odd choice.
Is it okay or is it ridiculous? Why did you even mention them taking it down if it isn't an issue to you?
The present Queen doesn't represent the monarchy? She isn't the head of the Anglican church? Are you for real?
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It's OK that they have the choice to take it down. It's ridiculous that that was their choice.
So the window has gone from:TenEightyOne
"He was a slave trader (when it was unfortunately legal), take him down"
"He didn't ethically invest in the 18th century, take him down"
"She should be judged on the actions of her ancestors, take her down"
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I'm also genuinely curious about your opinion on Ollie Robinson too.
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Think politicians are commenting on "woke" issues more recently? There's a reason
Oliver Dowden is a pretty sober sort of chap, so when the culture secretary tweeted last week that the England Cricket Board had gone “over the top” by suspending 27-year-old bowler Ollie Robinson from the Test team for a series of racist and sexist tweets made when he was 18, it raised some eyebrows in Westminster.
On Wednesday, Gavin Williamson provoked a social media storm by condemning the decision by students at Magdalen College, Oxford, to remove a portrait of the Queen from their middle common room. They said the monarch represented “recent colonial history”. The education secretary called the decision “absurd”.
By Friday, Downing Street was engaged in a standoff with the England football team over whether Boris Johnson supported the decision of the players to “take the knee” in the style of Black Lives Matter protesters.
This was the week that the government weaponised the war on woke.
To critics, these tactics smack of the classic racist “dog whistle” that is heard by voters of a certain stripe. In fact, they are one of two key strategies by No 10 to convince working-class voters in the new swing seats in northern England that the government sees the world through their eyes — and behind it lies the most powerful man in Britain you’ve never heard of.
Commenting on Dowden and Williamson, one government aide said: “They’re not blowing a dog whistle, it’s a Dougie whistle. We’re all culture warriors now.”
Dougie is Douglas Smith, a Tory fixer for three decades who is married to Munira Mirza, Johnson’s Downing Street policy director. Together they are the power couple behind the war on woke.
A former cabinet minister who knows Smith well said: “He is pathologically opposed to publicity.” His proximity to power is perhaps surprising when you learn he was previously best known for running high-end swingers’ sex parties in the 1990s.
To win the minds of inhabitants of the “red wall” the prime minister talks about “levelling up”, pledging to deliver infrastructure, government jobs and opportunity to communities who have felt neglected for years. The battle for their hearts is where Smith comes in.
I would copy the whole thing but I think that runs foul of forum rules.
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- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
I'll try writing it more slowly: you approved of them voting to put up a picture of the queen and so that isn't ridiculous. You don't approve of them subsequently choosing to take it down so that's ridiculous. I think you're being ridiculous.
I don't know, is the window attached to your goalposts? Is that why you're rolling all those things together?
Even if you don't feel that the monarch is a symbol of the monarchy (which is just the kind of thing you'd be able to convince yourself to think, imo), try judging the monarchy on its actions in this corporeal instance.
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- GTP_Mars
A polite reminder to everyone in this thread - keep it civil or keep it to yourself.
That means no abuse and no threats of any kind.
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‘Woke’ culture war is biggest dividing line among voters
“Wokeism” and the culture wars are on course to becoming the biggest dividing line in British politics, a prominent pollster has concluded following a major study into voter attitudes.
Frank Luntz, who spent nearly three decades carrying out work for the Republican Party in the US and advised presidents including George W Bush on political language, said that within six to 12 months cultural divisions in Britain would catch up with those in the United States.
“The problem with woke and with cancel culture is that it is never done. The conflict and divisions never end,” he said. “This is not what the people of the UK want — but it’s coming anyway.”
The Labour Party was in touch with its own voter base but “disconnected with everyone else”, he said. Sir Keir Starmer’s party “has got an internal conflict that is unsustainable”.
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Some 81 per cent of Tory voters agreed that the UK was a nation of “equality and freedom”, while 19 per cent said it was “institutionally racist and discriminatory nation”. Among Labour voters 52 per cent agreed with the former and 48 per cent with the latter.
According to his findings, 40 per cent of all voters believe cancel culture enforces a “thought and speech police” that can ruin lives, while 25 per cent think it is a good thing because if you say something sexist or racist you should “face the consequences”.
Luntz said that “woke” issues were becoming dominant in British political culture. “Woke begets woke,” he said. “It’s a narrative that Labour is promoting now but the Conservatives will pick it up as a reaction. The damage and the consequences of that chasm is awful.”
“When you have decided that your country is institutionally racist and discriminatory you don’t normally go back.”
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It's not what 40% of the UK want according to Luntz's figures. Who is he to speak for the other 60% and what is he doing over here anyway?
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- merseyxshore
Jesus crust the right is absolutely obsessed with cancel culture, "wokeism" and all of these other lefty-boogeyman terms they pump out into their media. Standard fare from The Times and a US Republican spin doctor though.
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- UKMikeyA
Their findings seem like a marked contrast with the figures I presented earlier and subsequent consensus on the thread that most people seem to be indifferent to the "scourge" of woke if in fact it even exists.
I'm highly sceptical as to whether Labour are campaigning on a "woke" platform rather than the Tories making plans to campaign on a "Labour are campaigning on a 'woke' platform" platform.
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It's not all bad:
Asked for his advice to Boris Johnson he pointed to findings that suggested voters believed the most important objective for government should be “protecting the poorest, weakest and most vulnerable”. This was the most popular option among those polled, chosen by 40 per cent, far more than the second most popular which was “letting people keep more of their hard-earned income” and chosen by 27 per cent.
Asked for his advice to Boris Johnson he pointed to findings that suggested voters believed the most important objective for government should be “protecting the poorest, weakest and most vulnerable”. This was the most popular option among those polled, chosen by 40 per cent, far more than the second most popular which was “letting people keep more of their hard-earned income” and chosen by 27 per cent.
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They sound like fairly leading questions to me. Boiling down to A) Should the government be there to help the needy. And B) Should the government be there to help the greedy. Even in the comfort of their own home, away from the judgement of others. A majority of people are still more likely to lean more towards A.
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